Electric Vehicles

[Dirty_habiT]

[Dirty_habiT]

He doesn't really drive it much.  I don't think his wife likes the "i don't even know you but i'm going to suck your dick off" looks you get when you drive that car.

[Kults]

Goddamn.. ^

[Dirty_habiT]

The Skyline belongs to our other brother.  It had an RB20 in it when he got it, we yanked that, sold it, and put an RB25 in it with a much larger turbo and an aftermarket ECU.

[Mercer]

 

 

Probably the most comprehensive review of the Model 3, good criticisms and praises after 1 year of ownership. 

[Dirty_habiT]

This was posted this morning on Ars.

 

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/11/these-electric-hot-rods-point-the-way-for-future-restomods/

 

While I think it's cool they're doing this with "aftermarket" parts.... none of the tech is different and it all boils down to the battery technology.  My coworker and I discussed at length a few months ago the fact that Tesla has effectively positioned itself to be a battery company.  It would appear they're making cars, they are doing that too, but what they're really after is making batteries better because that will trickle down into every sector.  Pretty interesting angle I hadn't heard until my coworker pointed it out for me.

 

I bet the Model 3 is great commuter car for people that live/work in the city or just outside of it.

 

Also, @Mercer- check this one out.... the Model X actually had good performance while towing which impressed these truck guys.  Don't get me wrong, it's still not for me.... I'm happy to see technology pushed forward though (not so much in reference to AI driven autopilot and the like though and more so in reference to the batteries getting better.)

 

 

[Mercer]

I'd never use any EV for a tow right now, from what I hear although it will work, the strain on the battery, increased need to cycle from 100% to very low is too much. Def highly recommend the 2 inch receiver though for bike/ski rack attachments. Roof racks suck.

 

 

 

[Dirty_habiT]

@Mercer- I'm curious to hear your thoughts on why you don't like roof racks.  We have one on one of our BMW's and the car came with threaded bosses to put rack mounts right into the roof rails.  There are no door clips that fuck with the weather stripping around the doors.  I am thinking, this might be, what you're referring to that you don't like..... and if that's the case I do agree.  We specifically avoided adding a roof rack to my Lexus for that reason, there was no "nice" way to put a rack n it.  Still, I'm curious to hear what you say.

[Mercer]

On 11/9/2019 at 9:48 AM, Dirty_habiT said:

@Mercer- I'm curious to hear your thoughts on why you don't like roof racks.  We have one on one of our BMW's and the car came with threaded bosses to put rack mounts right into the roof rails.  There are no door clips that fuck with the weather stripping around the doors.  I am thinking, this might be, what you're referring to that you don't like..... and if that's the case I do agree.  We specifically avoided adding a roof rack to my Lexus for that reason, there was no "nice" way to put a rack n it.  Still, I'm curious to hear what you say.

@Dirty_habiTOn cars, they're really not a problem outside of just minor inconveniences for most people,  like interfering with the sunroof,  or minor loss of milage per gallon. Even without side rails, If the door clips are done right that's also not a problem in most cases. The main problem is most adults don't have the upper body strength to handle putting a mountain bike, or sometimes even a snowboard on a roof rack safely.

 

SUV's and trucks aren't a problem for single dudes 6' or taller to lift things on and off safely from the middle of the roof. But if you've got a date, wifey, or even kids that you plan on letting help themselves, good luck keeping your sunroof from breaking, or paint from being scratched up. Even the paint on the sides can get scratched by clothing/zippers from people leaning on the car during just a single season of heavy use.

 

If you've got a truck or SUV like the Model X, a 2' hitch mount carrier is just much easier for people who actually plan to use them for more than just a showcase. Even recommend these hitch mount carriers over roof racks on cars, just because they're that much more convenient to use. Even grandma, and grandpa can unload their skis, and load their shit up themselves safely if they want to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This paint job will be noticeably different after 1 winter, and your family's clothes will be covered in road salt/dust from rubbing against the side of the car.

 

 

 

 

[Dirty_habiT]

That's a good point.  I think I just don't like those door clip things because thieves will royally fuck your car up stealing a rack off of it.  I've seen videos of people talking about getting their rack stolen by someone w/ a 2x4 just prying it off the top of their car.  Of course, the rails aren't going to save you from something like that either.  The rack we use for the BMW get's removed and put in the back seat every time when we use it for kayaks or bikes.  It is never sitting on top of the car enticing anyone.

 

I can see how lifting stuff on top of an suv would be a challenge for short/weaker people.  Probably a good reason to keep an aluminum step ladder in the truck if people are going to be prone to messing up the paint.

[Guest]

Battery powered bike my neighbor has. I bet this shit is fast as fuck 

[Dirty_habiT]

Yeah it definitely is. @KILZ FILLZim sure they have to have traction control on it and abs too. I think a lot of modern bikes have those features.

[Guest]

He must have a charger at work because this thing is never plugged in. Imagine the torque! @Dirty_habiT

[Dirty_habiT]

Yep, that's exactly why it would need traction control.  Even a Tesla doesn't put full torque down at 0rpm.  It wouldn't be possible, it'd blow the tires off.  So what the car's computer does is measure wheel slip between the wheels and applies as much torque as possible (provided you have it floored) without breaking traction for any more than a fraction of a second.  Good traction control systems don't feel like anything is happening except blistering acceleration.  The advantage for the electric motor comes in where there is no curve to it's torque vs rpm output like a gas/diesel motor.  It's linear on an electric motor, so while the motor can put down full torque "technically".... it does not.

 

Same is true for large industrial electric motors that run equipment.  You cannot actually just turn on this giant thing that weighs a whole lot (think giant flywheel) because you'd break all kinds of shit trying to apply torque to something that isn't moving.  Sorry if you know all this shit already, but I figured I would tell it in case someone is reading that doesn't know about it and is interested.  It's definitely very cool technology.

 

The ECU I bought for my Lexus IS300 has world class traction control.  It's considered to be one of the best traction controls available, exceeding what is put on most OEM vehicles.  The factory traction control on my Lexus just pulls out throttle from the electronically controlled throttle body, so as soon as it is "peeling out" it just acts like you took your foot off the gas pedal, regardless of what the gas pedal is actually doing.  This sucks balls, and actually didn't prevent me from wrecking the car one time (story of my negligence in maintenance, I will share some other time).

 

Here it is in action on a 1000whp corvette.  Notice how the car just hauls ass from very low mph without leaving any peel out tracks on the ground.  This is basically the same kind of thing the Tesla does as it ramps up as much torque as possible to the wheels.

 

 

edit: @KILZ FILLZ

[Kults]

What is he smoking 

 

 

 

[Mercer]

@Kultsholy shit that's ugly as fuck, that motherfucker better come with a steering column that sucks your dick for you, and drives for you while it's doing it. Even then I'm not sure it's enough to excuse that design. This nigga smoked a blunt on the Rogan podcast and must have lost all his senses.

 

That might even look futuristic if it were 1978, but it reminds me of a shittier version of the original Lambo SUV fail. You know everyone associated with that truck, the engineers, the designers, etc are fucking embarrassed. Anyone see the "armored glass" fail during the live Demo. Damn, this is a dark time for Tesla fans. I can't imagine a situation where it's socially acceptable to pull up in that thing, unless you're already on the moon, or mars. 

[Mercer]

 

[Kults]

How you guys feeling about this one? Why cant they just make EVs look like regular cars? Personally I think it looks miles better than the CybrTrKK but it still looks dopey as hell. Why give an electric SUV the mustang badging too? What the hell is that..

 

 

https://www.ford.ca/suvs/mach-e/2021/

 

Pretty sick though, GT Model: 

 

Quote

459 horsepower and 612 pound-feet of torque, giving it the ability to hit 60 miles per hour in about 3.5 seconds. 

Quote

Standard RWD (75.7 kWh): EPA-Estimated over 230 miles (355 km)
Standard AWD (75.7 kWh): EPA-Estimated over 325 km
Extended RWD (98.8 kWh): EPA-Estimated over 300 miles (475 km)
Extended AWD (98.8 kWh): EPA-Estimated over 270 miles (425 km)

 

 

[Kults]

 

[KILZ FILLZ]

Electric motorbikes need to drop in price

 

imagine no gears?

 

 

[Dirty_habiT]

I probably am not qualified to talk about this because i'm not an EE, but wouldn't a transmission with multiple gears potentially extend the range of one of these engines by allowing it to operate at a lower RPM when at a higher speed?

[KILZ FILLZ]

I have no idea if that’s how electrical engines work. Are batteries measured in rpm? 
 

I see what you’re saying but golf carts and Tesla don’t have gears either. 
 

just one large power band. 

[NightmareOnElmStreet]

Not sure why they call that hideous piece of trash a truck exactly. But if i had the scratch I’d wait for a real one. Saw something rad somewhere on the internets, cant remember where but I’ll try to find it. 

[Dirty_habiT]

True.  Batteries are measured in "amp hours".... which essentially says "how long can it discharge this much power".  The thing that makes this confusing for me is, and hopefully someone can explain this.... actually I'll ask my friend and come back and explain it to all of us.....

 

If it takes 200 amp hours to run an motor at 5rpm.

If it takes 600 amp hours to run a motor at 10rpm.

If @ 1rpm the vehicle travels at 1mph and at 10rpm it travels at 1mph w/o gearing.....

couldn't you run it in a "higher gear" at 5rpm and get 15mph out of it and only consume 200 amp hours worth of battery?

 

That's why this is confusing to me.

 

@KILZ FILLZ

[Dirty_habiT]

6 minutes ago, NightmareOnElmStreet said:

Not sure why they call that hideous piece of trash a truck exactly. But if i had the scratch I’d wait for a real one. Saw something rad somewhere on the internets, cant remember where but I’ll try to find it. 

Rivian is probably what you're talking about.

 

https://rivian.com/

 

And yeah.... I recently got a 8' bed 12 valve dodge cummins (mechanical diesel, ie. no electronic fuel pump/fuel injectors or computer controlled fuckery)..... it's a real truck that can do real truck type shit, and still maintain a giant range with 35 gallon fuel tank.  The 8' bed makes it a "long bed" and that means my full size dirt bikes fit in the back of the truck without having the tail gate down, and there's still room for all kinds of other shit.  It can also pull a 5th wheel trailer which is the kind that uses a gooseneck and attaches into the middle of the truck bed rather than at the rear bumper.  This is the kind of trailer that not only weighs a fuck load by itself, but you can load like 6 cars on and the pickup truck can still pull it up hills and everything.

 

We won't see an electric vehicle compete with that type of "truck activity" anytime in the near future.  Also nobody that uses a truck for truck type activities is going to be ok with "shit range" and having to sit around drinking lattes with their pinky sticking out at the "supercharging station" waiting for the thing to get a charge again.  The two things just don't jive together, so this "tesla truck" is for hipsters that think they do work.

 

It's like how hype beast kiddos wear distressed motorcycle jeans but can't operate anything that uses a clutch and a manual transmission.  The tesla truck is the distressed motorcycle jeans of trucking.

[misteraven]

Indeed, its a continuous, even power band on a motor versus an engine which is geared. I suspect that motors aren't geared because they're optimized to provide immediate power as needed and are essentially off when not needed. Besides that, they also recover energy by harnessing forward momentum as the car decelerates to recharge batteries. I suspect that rather than needing gears to optimize the performance of the engine, which in turn can also optimize fuel consumption, the electric motor does this inherently by throttling the amount of energy given to the motor based on input (gas pedal). I know a combustion engine does the same by slowly opening valves and allowing more fuel into it for combustion, but likewise, it depends on gearing to optimize the process, as well as the resulting torque you receive in return.

[Dirty_habiT]

DHABZ: I have a question for you.

DHABZ: why wouldn't you put a gear box on an electric motor?  LIke, why wouldn't it extend the range of the engine by allowing it to operate at a lower rpm?

 

SpeedAddict: It can operate from zero rpm

SpeedAddict: That being said, it's not a bad idea, and people do it

SpeedAddict: The majority of swaps keep a manual and shift it, usually starting in 2nd gear

 

DHABZ: so does it actually extend the range though?

DHABZ: and if it does, do you thin kthe reason tesla hasn't done it yet is because they want to sell it to people later after they've initially become married to the brand?

DHABZ: like as in tesla knows it's better to have a gear box, but they're "keeping it on the shelf" until they need to introduce the next money sucking idea to people?

 

SpeedAddict: Oh, Tesla specifically

 

DHABZ: well not just tesla

DHABZ: i'm just naming them from a perspective of them being the major name everyone knows and buys.

 

SpeedAddict: Well, it depends on the motor.

SpeedAddict: Like, I am using brushed DC, they do have a powerband, and don't like to be spun particularly fast unless you do special things to the rotor to keep it from flying apart.

SpeedAddict: That's why a lot of the conversion guys like gearboxes.

SpeedAddict: They are also air cooled, you don't want to lug them necessarily because that means high amps and low airflow and high temps

SpeedAddict: Since the fans are spun at motor speed

SpeedAddict: Tesla has a liquid cooled, high power brushless

SpeedAddict: So a lot of that goes out the window.

SpeedAddict: Cooling isn't an issue, you've got no brushes to deal with

 

DHABZ: ah ok, i think that kind of answers it for me.

DHABZ: i'm going to post our conversation on 12oz because we have an electric car thread.

DHABZ: and none of us are really experts on the subject at all.... we got into the discussion this morning about why they don't have gears and i started wondering myself why it wouldn't consume less power to run the electric motor at a lower rpm.

 

SpeedAddict: Anyway, if you have a motor with a perfectly flat powerband that can operate at all rpm without issue, there is no reason for a gearbox. It would add unnecessary weight, volume and complexity

SpeedAddict: You don't have nearly as many parasitic losses as you do in an engine

SpeedAddict: Having to power the valvetrain and all that extra stuff

 

 

 

 

[misteraven]

57 minutes ago, Dirty_habiT said:

SpeedAddict: Anyway, if you have a motor with a perfectly flat powerband that can operate at all rpm without issue, there is no reason for a gearbox. It would add unnecessary weight, volume and complexity

SpeedAddict: You don't have nearly as many parasitic losses as you do in an engine

SpeedAddict: Having to power the valvetrain and all that extra stuff

Seems to confirm what I'd stated, though I didn't mention anything about how it added complexity. As far as I know, most EV's have a flat powerband. Just no reason to gear it since it doesn't affect the torque at any given speed or optimize / conserve the energy consumption.

[misteraven]

Also, I would think that in an EV, the powerband is programmed anyways. Even those without a flat powerband, probably have it programmed in sort fo like a more integrated flight control you see in some automatic transmission sports cars.

[KILZ FILLZ]

“Dirty Habit” and “Speed Addict” - nice lol