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serum

writers and death

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first off this isnt any disrespect to thoughs that have lost loved ones recently writers or not.

 

i wondering everyones feelings on death. i'm just curious since when was it the trend in graffiti to be so caring and loving when a writer dies? we treat each other like shit when we're alive but as soon as someone passes away everyone is like rip. 2001 was a bad year for writers and the top of the bench is beginning to look like a grave yard.

 

would you like to be appreciated and respected while you are alive or would you rather have a bunch of internet heads writing rip, giving you so much props after you're dead?

 

why can't we disrespect the dead? we talk shit about people we dont know all the time, as soon as they die we aren't aloud to say anything negative about them?

 

i dont disrespect people while they are alive nor when they are dead. i guess what i'm trying to get at here is respect all people around you while they are living and dont start when they're dead.

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ive always said the same thing man... and ive always had issues with people that want to act all bent out of shape about shit that i know damn well they dont care about....

in my highschool, freshman year, this fat goofy kid killed himself. everyone picked on him and it pushed him over the edge. after he did, all these girls sat around crying. bitch shut up, you're the reason he put his fucking throat all over the bathroom wall. i dont want to say 'if your not going to care all the time, then dont fucking bother, cause that sounds ridiculous, but theres some level of truth to it. why cant people care about one another all the time? why be such blatent fucking hipocrits?

anyone that was around a while ago knows about the shit i got into for making a comment about tie biting twist. at the time, i had no clue who tie was and my comment wasnt made to disrespect his memory. if i had known, of course i wouldnt have said anything, but the fact remains, and was acknowledged by everyone i talked to about it; the shit in question was a complete bite. if little johnny nebraska had posted it, everyone would have joined in with my comment and tore him apart, but since dude was a respected writer that passed away, somehow that makes him a divine entity? i dont think so. keep in mind, i wouldnt have said it had i know, because thats just poor form, but it doesnt make it any less true, and every single person that took the chance to throw jabs at me knew it.

anytime someone dies, i care just as much as i dont. i mean, i cant go around constantly mourning the dead cause id never be able to leave my house. but i also try to live my life in a way that honors all people, living or dead, which in my mind, is paying homage to everyone that has passed. im not always the worlds nicest guy, but i stand behind my beliefs and i will never comprimise them to fit in with the 'popular' stance.

 

of course all of that comes from my buddhist belief that we dont really exist anyway. :)

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the fat kid killing himself is exactly what i'm talking about. i posted this because recently this kid i knew from high school recently was a bike messanger got hit while working. i knew him he was a nice guy and a feel for him and his family. but thing that kind of bugged me a bit was that people that didnt even know him are gathering to go to his funeral. i mean its nice for his parents to see that people will miss him but where were you before dude got hit?

 

i believe we are born we die. just like when you put a quarter into a video game machine. we know that we are going to die. game over. we all have feelings and i guess we all want to hold on just a little longer. my grandmother isnt well and is going to die soon. shes 97. my mother asked me if i'm going to come home for the funeral and i said. no. i mean shes lived her life and i dont want to remember her in a black box with a bad makeup job and her eyes sewn shut. my respect for her is the same if i show up or not.

 

sorry i know this isnt porn so i dont expect anyone to really reply to this.

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i can relate to your stories, seekings most of all cause ive known a few people who have hung themselves or put a gun down their throat. Its sad for me to see but at the same time im sad for a friend being gone it pisses me off that deusche bags that could have given half a fuck a day before are out there telling stories of times they spent with the deceased or 'oh my god i think i had a class with him' or even worse the people who make up stories of them and the person so they can be part of the 'death crowd' even though ive been outta highschool now i find that things havent changed much, once in a while people will call me up and tell me that someone has died and ill just say 'yeah so i didnt know them well' and thats that, yet i catch alot of shit for that cause im not mourning someone i didnt know and or didnt like. i think the world is fucked up like that, yeah death can be sad but its gonna happen sooner or later to everyone, to use a quote that most everyone will know ' on a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero'

doesnt get any more true than that

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Guest chicken bone

hey i agree with you guys and just one thing kinda unrelated to the topic is that twist taught tie a lot of the stuff he knows, sort of on the apprentice/student type joint, so would you call still call it that? biting to me is a "i-of-no-affliation-to-you-but-i-will-steal-your-letters!" those two were homeboys in the same crew and tie was twist's protege..

 

anyways i think a lot of peoples reactions to deaths that dont involve them (or do, in the case of the 'hypocrites') are formed from their personal fear of death and that shock induced moment of when someone they know or have seen dissapears completly. sort of like transforming them into a 'ohmygosh it could happen to me i dont know how to react' mode, thus the crying and the superficial 'i care sooo much' shenanigans. i think if it doesnt involve you, just be respectful and keep quiet. maybe even take whats happened and apply it to your own life in a manner to which it suits you.

 

death to me is inevitable and to me, it doesnt make sense to fear it. the pain and suffering of losing a loved one is unparalled and grief is unavoidable. i just accept it for what it is. treat people you are close with with love and respect so when the time comes, you have no regrets.

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Guest Are2

artists are always more respected after death..who knows why that is?

it gives their work an edge..

 

graf has always respected the dead..rip murals have been around since the beginning...why? it is unfair for our friends to be taken so early, before us..and we can still commemorate them in the land of the living..since graf is about getting up, staying up, we want to keep our dead friends, up and alive in the eyes of the streets..

 

we gotta respect the dead because they are no longer around to defend themselves..pick on someone with a pulse, y'know?

 

death is so scary for people because it is the epitome of the great unknown..and we are creatures who want sure things and security..in death their is none..we have to trust, to wait and see..

 

 

all those threads, and sept 11..have reminded me of the importance of being a good person, and appreciating the things i have..because death may come, for any of us, at any time..

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I waver a bit on this one. I understand what everyone is saying about getting on the grief bandwagon, and it seems to me like it's a recent trend - last five years or so, and not graff-related. It's almost a peculiar form of political correctness to get down with the bereaved.

And yet, what better time than upon someone's death to soften up a little, have your perspective rearranged. I hit up RIP on some trains for somebody I never met, just because the story was so sad it moved me. I didn't talk about it to anybody, playing up the pathos. That would have felt fake.

Which face is the real one? The posturing and bullshit we give people while they're alive, or the sympathy we pour on when they're dead? I think both are fake, but necessarily so. Everybody has to put up walls and pretend to knock them down. A world full of 100% honest people all the time would be unbearable.

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yeah i know what youre saying. my boy died last april and all these faggot ass motherfuckers were alll gathered at the wake for a kid they didnt know..i know they were paying their dues and shit but they can keep it at home..i fucking hate it when someone dies and everyone talks about them and writes rip everywhere when they didnt know them nor shit about them..its like a popular thing to do or someshit.

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i had something long and intellectually stimulating written but im having trouble translating my thoughts into words right now. so im gonna come from a different angle. while i see where ur comin from as far as being able to talk shit about someone when theyre alive and not when theyre dead, but i think ur wrong. why not look at it a different way. instead of worrying about why its alright to say shit about something about someone when theyre dead or alive; what about asking urself why u feel the need to talk shit while the persons alive or dead? its one thing if someones affecting ur life but usually shit talkin is pointless and a waste of energy. its just telling urself that ur bored and have nothing worthwhile to do: making u, a loser. and talking shit is a reflection on urself. i agree that sometimes people deserve a word or two and i know i talk shit too. but it doesnt make a difference. and as far as why people all of the sudden change their minds from being against a person when they die to having respect...... theres different reasons but the big ones that i can think of are:

 

1. people want to be seen by other people as civil and compassionate. they are respectful forthe same reason they were disrespectful; they care about what other people think.

 

2. dying is seen as the ultimate punishment. if someone doesnt like someone, they usually want something bad to happen to them. but dying is usually more than they want. so they feel guilty for wanting something bad to happen before the death...

 

....they pretty much wanted soemthing bad to happen but not that bad and they feel guilty for thinking bad of this person before they died.

 

 

 

i dont know what im talkin about and dont care enough to try and finish my though anymore so.... goodnight.

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Originally posted by Zack Morris

his name is Robert Paulson.

 

his name is Robert Paulson

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you cant look down on death..yeah it takes away your boys, your moms, your pops, whoever but you know this shit is coming..who cares if you gave the kid shit before he died..he going to come back on some casper shit on you..you cant sit around and mourn on cats when they die..it always sucks for him not to be there when you all having a hard laugh or smoking a camper..but death should be respected just as much as life..you cant take either for granted and once you do someone shows you whats up by taking one of your boys out of the equation.

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chicken bone: yeah, i know that now, and my comment was simply "aww look, a little version of twist." somehow, everyone equated that with pissing on a headstone.

my point wasnt to say that its ok to talk shit about the dead, i wouldnt do that simply because i dont want to hurt other peoples feelings, but im not going to change my opinion of someone because now they are dead. dying is half of life. its completely natural. we know from the time we are able to count our fingers, that we will eventually die. yes, its sad when it happens, but i mean, its life ya know. being bent out of shape about it is just setting yuorself up to fall. not to say that when my parents die i will just shrug it off as being 'part of life' but i hope that when it does happen, i can maintain my current perspective and cherrish the times ad had with them, as opposed to dwelling on the fact that i wont have any more. i dont know... i do alot of thinking about death though, and what it means to life (and vice versa)... we'll see how how strongly convicted i am when faced with it in a very personal manner.

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Re: seeking

 

i think you guys lose track of what graffiti is sometimes. or maybe my perception of what graffiti embodies is so much different than the rest of you guys. example: if sace (chosen randomly) did some crazy huge roller, i wouldnt think that he was biting saber or slim or rine or cost or revs or espo or mque or grey, but that he was putting in work. and, if tie does a face in his throw up that is similar to twist's, so fucking what? tie embodied graffiti (and, no, i do not want to turn this into a thread hating on your comment). and, he put in work beyond belief. people do similar things, and giving credit to one person is rediculous. everyone is influenced by this world, and some people are going to pull from the same things. your comment is a classic example of "myth of orgins." just because you saw twist do that character ot letters or whatever first, so what? twist came up with that character from who knows what... a man's face on the street, an old picture in a newspaper, whatever it may be. who are you to say where one person got/or should have gotten his inspiration from. and, the fact that you say it was true (which whatever), but you wouldnt have said it if you knew he was dead; only if he was alive, contradicts the fact that youre agreeing with this thread. serum is saying if youre not going to say it now, dont say it when theyre alive. and inversely, if youre going to say it when theyre alive, say it when theyre dead. the fact that you admit you would have "pulled your punch" if you would have known he was dead, is exactly what this kid, serum, is upset about.

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blood and guts, clearly you didnt see the original thread. we're not talking about a face in a throw. whatever. this is not about some year old misunderstanding. all im trying to say is that i would not have said it, had i known, simply because im not trying to slander someone who has passed away. it could not possibly achieve anything positive. i tend to practice the old addage of 'if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all." there is a huge difference between just bitign your tounge, and completely changing your stance to be on the dick. im not taking back what i said, cause i still stand behind it. i didnt take it back, back then. i apologised for saying somethign that didnt nead to be said, and whatever if people cant deal with it.

we are writers, and im not trying to hear about morals or 'rightesness' from anyone that paints on other peoples shit. sorry, but cast your stones in the mirror, not at me. (not meant towards you, just in general)

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Originally posted by graffsurgeon

they should crucify the vietnam obsessed fuck that shot tie.

 

why? was tie's life any more valuable than anyone elses? should we 'crucify' every person that commits a crime?

 

after nace was killed by a drunk driver, i heard everyone bitching about how people who drive drunk should be shot on the spot. two weeks later many of those same kids are driving drunk. thats hypocritical bullshit. if you say something, stand behind it. if your not prepared to, then dont open your mouth.

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the cat didnt even get repremanded..i never bitched about nace getting hit by a drunk driver because i know i do the same..nace was a loss but im not about to talk shit on drunk driving..when your boys get taken out by a crazy fuck who has no reason to shoot someone...thats when you do something about it.

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i guess i prefer the addage of:

if youre going to say it behind my back, say it to my face bitch.

(the bitch is optional).

and, that applies both ways, if you have the balls to say it about someone you think is alive, you should say it about them if theyre dead too. and, you, personally, have stuck to your guns about the tie comment. i didnt mean to come across as attacking; just to offer my view. i used what you had said to base what i was saying (partly because it was one of the few things in this post with thought behind it). i respect tie, where his influences came from, and the work he put into GRAFFITI. i am not trying to be moral about this, but simply saying: people need to stop worrying about stepping on peoples toes, and say what they think needs to be said. (very important: "needs to be said." i am tired of these bullshit posts (e.g. "dope trains," "i do this drug and that drug," "fucking girls in the butt is cool."))

 

graffiti is different for a lot of people, and discussing it leads to nothing. i am glad you cleared up the casting stones thing, because i didnt think that applied.

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graff surgeon, this is a battle you wont win. just stop. take your "graffiti is not a crime" and "graffiti is art" signs elsewhere.

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Originally posted by blood & guts

graff surgeon, this is a battle you wont win. just stop. take your "graffiti is not a crime" and "graffiti is art" signs elsewhere.

 

 

what????????? graffiti is not a crime??? what the fuck are you talking about? i dont even talk about graff being art. shut your fucking mouth kid. get your shit straight. im in this shit to destroy. shut the fuck up. blood and guts..holy fuck shocking.

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ok, just to totally clear things up....

someone brand new to the board, who had like 5 posts, posts some red bordered stickers that had very, very, very similar to twist characters on them. no names (atleast i dont remember seeing a name) just characters. to which i replied "aww, how cute, its like a little twist." thats it. all this fuss over that sentence. which, if twist was his mentor, makes it even less offensive.

 

"i am not trying to be moral about this, but simply saying: people need to stop worrying about stepping on peoples toes, and say what they think needs to be said. (very important: "needs to be said."

 

i dont think anyone has ever accused me of being afraid to step on toes. :) in my opinion it comes down to 'what needs to be said,' and saying negative things about the dead will seldom bring about anything good. not to mention the fact that i recognize my opinion is nothing but my opinion, and even though it gets taken more seriously than most opinions here (or atleast scrutinized more) its still just an opinion. there is a difference between sticking by your guns, and changing your story to fit the situation.

 

i dont know... im starving and im too lazy to make food.

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i cant wait till graff surgeon posts some of his stuff and finally puts some work behind his big mouth. he talks like a veteran, yet id be surprised if he's been around for more than two years.

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