Tea Party

[Rewind]

...ha.

[Rewind]

Man functions best in a collective, communal society based on voluntarism and sharing.

 

 

Really?

Then share me $900.00.

I'd like some fresh paint and music gear.

 

Get out of your pipe dream, and lay off the pipe.

Scratch that; just pass me the pipe.

 

Healthcare isn't deserved. It is EARNED.

When will you boo hoo hoo-ers get that through your low-income minds?

 

Old Chinese Proverb say: Feed man fish for a day, then you've fed man for a day. Teach man to fish, man eat for life.

 

Getting fed, day, by day, by day..... this is those that cry for reform.

Fuck you I'll fish MYSELF and EARN my healthcare. So others won't have to keep "feeding" me healthcare. Which is what you all want. Cause: "Boo Fuckin Hoo, we are not able to afford it". Quit bitchin and stack your ones.

 

Oh, and BTW man functions best when he is allowed to keep all his $money$ that he earns from his labor and do as he pleases with that money.

[TheoHuxtable..]

Bill O'Reilly supports the Public Option... WTF??

 

This is some Twilight Zone shit.

 

[Smart]

Healthcare isn't deserved. It is EARNED.

When will you boo hoo hoo-ers get that through your low-income minds?

 

HELL YEAH! Stop Prenatal care funding! What the fuck has a baby ever done for us? Just another mouth to feed/ poop factory. I can get a dog for that!

[YouMad.GIF]

For real those poor ass kids with crackhead mothers and who knows where fathers need to stop squelching my dimes and pull themselves the fuck up by their bootstraps! Public child vaccinations? That's socialist new world order Nazi shit!!!

[angelofdeath]

child vaccinations=autism

[lord_casek]

I'm not going to vaccinate.

[YouMad.GIF]

Jesus Christ please show me any real credible link between child vaccinations and autism by a credible independant medical group or top research university (that hasn't been discredited in the past 10 years), as well as identify which vaccinations cause autism (it couldn't be all of them since the chemobiology of each vaccination is so vastly different) I know there was a rumor that a chemical found in several vaccinations was rumored to bump up numbers, but with gene research advancement that's been proven false...

 

autism has been shown to have a conclusive link to genetics And is amplified by pregnancy close to menopause

that's the strongest studied scientific connection

 

child vaccinations have pretty much stopped the spread of terrible diseases like polio, rhubella, typhoid, smallpox, etc etc etc. If you take the numbers of children vaccinated, then compare that to the percentage of children born WITH AUTISM the chances would be less than half of a percent - well into the "completely incedental" statistics. Even if you could prove that there is an increased risk (you can't - there isn't), statistically the risk is so minimal compared with the millions of lives these vaccinations have been proven to save. The risk of being crippled by polio or dying of typhoid was far greater than any modern autism numbers. You should start championing the awareness of mothers having kids past 40 to prevent autism, not furthering some complety unfounded rumor.

 

So which vaccination is it that causes autism again? You mean to say there was no autism before vaccinations? You mean to say autism doesn't occur in poor countries that have no vaccinations?

[YouMad.GIF]

http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/2008/01/09/on-parenting-genes--not-vaccines--linked-to-autism.html

 

Genetics prove strongest link to autism

new England medical journal study 2008

 

Two major new studies grapple with the conundrum at the core of autism, the often-devastating disorder that can make it difficult for children to connect with their fellow humans. This news brings us two big steps further down the path of understanding this complex, enigmatic disease. And it reassures all parents that childhood vaccines do not appear to increase the risk of autism.

 

 

Video: What is Autism?

On Thursday, scientists reported that 1 percent of people with autism share a variation on chromosome 16. Several other genes have been previously implicated in autism, but this study in the New England Journal of Medicine is the first to find a consistent genetic variation in such large numbers of people. The researchers, led by the Boston-based Autism Consortium, scanned the dna of members of 751 affected families looking for shared clues.

 

"This finding really nails it," says Andrew Zimmerman, director of medical research at the Center for Autism and Related Disorders at the Kennedy Krieger Institute in Baltimore. He notes that the researchers triple-checked their work by also finding the same genetic anomaly in people tested at Children's Hospital Boston and in Iceland.

 

Until now, about 10 percent of autism cases have had a known cause, like Fragile X syndrome or congenital rubella. With this extra 1 percent now explained, that leaves another 89 percent to go. But autism is no longer the research backwater it was even a decade ago. Big guns in genetics, like Aravinda Chakravarti, an expert in the genetics of complex diseases at Johns Hopkins's Institute of Genetic Medicine, and Mark Daly, a statistical genetics guru at the Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Institute in Cambridge, Mass., signed on as coauthors of the NEJM paper.

 

"There have been very few diseases that have ever been treated without understanding their basis," says Eric Lander, a genomics pioneer and founding director of the Broad Institute in Cambridge, Mass., who was not involved in the study. This discovery is important for a reason that's not immediately obvious, he says. The implicated segment of chromosome 16 holds only about 25 genes. When researchers find the biochemical pathway used by the problematic genes in causing autism's symptoms, it will be easier to find other genes involved in what scientists have long recognized to be a dauntingly complex and varied disorder.

[YouMad.GIF]

Here's a great link that shows how the 98 UK studies that spurred the-2000 CDC studies that were "buried" were done so because the research done didn't hold up. This is where this rumor originated

 

http://www.newsweek.com/id/185853

 

 

 

Like many people in London on that bleak February day in 1998, biochemist Nicholas Chadwick was eager to hear what the scientists would say. The Royal Free Hospital, where he was a graduate student in the lab of gastroenterologist Andrew Wakefield, had called a press conference to unveil the results of a new study. With flashbulbs popping, Wakefield stepped up to the bank of microphones: he and his colleagues, he said, had discovered a new syndrome that they believed was triggered by the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine. In eight of the 12 children in their study, being published that day in the respected journal The Lancet, they had found severe intestinal inflammation, with the symptoms striking six days, on average, after the children received the MMR. But hospitals don't hold elaborate press conferences for studies of gut problems. The reason for all the hoopla was that nine of the children in the study also had autism, and the tragic disease had seized them between one and 14 days after their MMR jab. The vaccine, Wakefield suggested, had damaged the intestine—in particular, the measles part had caused serious inflammation—allowing harmful proteins to leak from the gut into the bloodstream and from there to the brain, where they damaged neurons in a way that triggered autism. Although in their paper the scientists noted that "we did not prove an association" between the MMR and autism, Wakefield was adamant. "It's a moral issue for me," he said, "and I can't support the continued use of [the MMR] until this issue has been resolved."

 

That's strange, thought Chadwick. For months he had been extracting genetic material from children's gut biopsies, looking for evidence of measles from the MMR. That was the crucial first link in the chain of argument connecting the MMR to autism: the measles virus infects the gut, causing inflammation and leakage, then gut leakage lets neurotoxic compounds into the blood and brain. Yet Chadwick kept coming up empty-handed. "There were a few cases of false positives, [but] essentially all the samples tested were negative," he later told a judicial hearing. When he explained the negative results, he told NEWSWEEK, Wakefield "tended to shrug his shoulders. Even in lab meetings he would only talk about data that supported his hypothesis. Once he had his theory, he stuck to it no matter what." Chadwick was more disappointed than upset, figuring little would come from the Lancet study. "Not many people thought [Wakefield] would be taken that seriously," Chadwick recalls. "We thought most people would see the Lancet paper for what it was—a very preliminary collection of [only 12] case reports. How wrong we were."

 

The next day, headlines in the British press screamed, DOCTORS LINK AUTISM TO MMR VACCINE AND BAN THREE-IN-ONE JAB, URGE DOCTORS AFTER NEW FEARS. That was mild compared with what followed. Hysteria over childhood vaccinations built to such a crescendo that Wakefield's nuanced warning—that it was specifically the triple vaccine, not single-disease vaccines (even measles), that posed a threat—was drowned out. In 2001, Prime Minister Tony Blair and his wife, Cherie, refused to say whether their son, then 19 months old, had received the MMR; rumors swirled that they had gone to France so the child could receive the measles vaccine alone. In 2003, a docudrama about Wakefield ran on British TV, depicting him as having his files stolen and his phone tapped by evil pharmaceutical companies intent on protecting their vaccines. As one reviewer described the show: "The MMR vaccine is coming to get our kids."

[YouMad.GIF]

The article is very long, but also details how this scare originated. I've researched this pretty deeply before my son was born with my mom, who is a research scientist and pretty much made me realize that the science doesn't add up - for example the mercurium preservative was "blamed" for rising autism levels in California in a 20 year period, yet this preservative had been prevalent since 33 and the numbers didn't add up to this timeline. The result was a researgance of measles outbreaks not seen since the turn of the century.

 

Basically it was started by one guy in the UK with very questionable scientific method, was blown out of perportion, and led to a bunch of credible scientists tryingvto be the next person to find the link and publishing a bunch of skewed studies that routinely failed every scientific litmus test...

 

 

 

Casek, NOT immunizing your kids would be irresponsable as fuck

there's no conspiracy of te pharmacy companies here, just a good old fashioned media scare.

[angelofdeath]

kim:

i dont know much about vaccinations, other than they are said to cause a lot weird shit. im by no means an expert in this area and honestly, im not really interested in it.

 

i merely threw that out there to... 1. get everyone stirred up. 2. show that sometimes the things governments do in the name of 'good' can be bad. they often have unintended consequences. in fact, just about everything they do has unintended consequences. fact of the matter.... vaccinations should be a choice made between consenting parties and not at the barrel of a gun.

 

i know the topic would lead further to...,'but what if so and so virus is out there and if people dont get the vaccines, everyone would get infected, etc etc.'

so im just backing out now, cause i dont feel like discussing it, sorry.

 

 

AngelofDeath: Yes I agree a voluntary society without the coercion of the state would be ideal. The proles would have their communes and the individualists would have their family farms. This would work fine except there is no new frontier for us to strike out on and live on our own terms. The current system is too entrenched. There was a time when this country could have remained free but it became divided up and claimed by capitalists. The same capitalists you claim are "free". How are you free when one man owns the land your tribe used to live on? The Native Americans had true freedom. Such as shame few of the white men realized this coming from imperialist England. The land can only support so many frontiersmen and individualists. And this is in a land where buffalo herds would extend for hundreds of miles, salmon in the rivers would be as thick as the waters, and passenger pigeons in the skies would blot out the sun! This land of such great wealth for the harmonious Native Americans! In a few hundred years all the land was gobbled up by homesteaders and corporations and many of its natural resources exploited and depleted. One of the last holdouts for freedom, modern day Indianapolis, was the last bastion of refuge for many Indians, slaves, moors, and whites. I believe Noble Drew Ali was among them if I remember correctly.

 

Man functions best in a collective, communal society based on voluntarism and sharing. It's how we lived for a ridiculously long time, something like 100,000 years. Our current way of life, which began 6,000 years ago and was kicked into hyperdrive about 100 years ago, is unsustainable and threatens all we hold dear. As there are less and less farmers and more and more people awakening to the fact that they are proletariats a revolution in the way we live will ensue. A communal based revolution and a return to more harmonious living with the earth. At least that's what I hope happens. We could all die first at this rate.

 

 

the indians in america are a tough subject. but one thing is for sure, its rather silly to blame the conquest of indians on 'capitalism' or that capitalists destroyed the country.

 

who was the mass murderer of the indian populations? the government.

 

property rights are based in homesteading. the indians homesteaded the lands, it should be there's. if one is to try to live on these lands, you must in some way get permission to, as many tried. take the watauga settlement in east tn. they basically bought a lease on the land from the indians. later they bought it out right. this is no different than how lands are divided today. sure, there are quarrels and what not over this sort of stuff in the market place, but look what eventually happened? the government comes in and just kills all the indians.

would we rather have quarrels, or would we rather have a government come along and just kill the opposing party?

 

i see who the main problem is.

 

people can live how they want, (to the extent allowable by law) right now today.

nothing is stopping the anarchists and communists from pooling all their money together and buying a huge peice of land. nothing at all. with all the rich rich intellectual types of this type of philosophy, it could happen in no time.

and with private property rights protecting it... you are GOLDEN.

 

 

check out the flick:

off the grid: life on the mesa.

you'll probably love it.

i thought it was great, and this shows are alliance.

 

*edit

 

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/off_the_grid_life_on_the_mesa/

 

link to full movie.

[YouMad.GIF]

I really like living in a world without polio and typhoid and rhubellum and mumps

 

I'm kind of on the fence about the whole manditory vaccination thing - I see both sides of the argument. But in the end, I think if you want 'to enroll your kid in any public school or social program they should be required. There's certain times where pretty much everyone believes the government needs to interveine in peoples philosophy of child rearing. If it's your personal philosophy that beating your kid with an electrical cord is the best way for him to learn discipline, we as a society determine that you can't do that because it's abusive.

 

While it's a hyperbolic argument, it shows that sometimes everyone agrees society needs to interveine in negligent parenting. You have the right to raise your kid un vaccinated, but you don't have the right to have that kid go to public school with my kid and risk turning it into an infectious disease breeding ground because you read some outdated study you didn't really understand...

[angelofdeath]

you hit on the main issue...

public schools.

 

the problem is, if you dont want to educate you kid in a public school and wont follow the state approved cirriculum and get licensed or certified or whatever other sort of weird qualifications to have for homeschooling... the state can literally kidnap your kid from you and put them in school.

and any way you look at it, you are forced to pay for the public schools.

 

so you have weird situation. a school system that is regulated by bureaucrats that get paid by another agency robbing the localities citizens. some citizens (and rightfully so) feel that if they are being forced to pay for something, they should have a say in admission policies.

so you have resentment building in the minds of people who have to pay their property taxes and/or school taxes to pay for a school that they are making their kids get vaccinated for that might cause a bunch of weird problems. sure, they have the choice to send them to private school, but the fact is their money is already being taken to fund the public school.

 

so the best bet would be to make school funding voluntary and allow a free market in education. this would best be done with private schools or a voluntary 'public school.' a logical first step would be to sever all ties with the federal and state governments and allow each locality to decide the admission policies of the schools. at least the parents would have some what of better chance at getting what they want/their beliefs considered.

 

i think someone probably needs to step in against abusive parents, however the line is getting less clear what exactly abuse is and what isn't. when it starts getting to where agencies can go in on faulty evidence and kidnap peoples kids, you have a problem. its sort of like the problem with drugs... if you want to get back at someone for something, all you have to do is send an 'anonymous tip' to the police department that they are peddling drugs and they get a no knock warrant and shoot old black ladies like they did in richmond a few years ago.

[Decyferon]

My son had the MMR vaccination here in the UK, he was fine and I would rather he be vaccinated against these illnesses rather than not, the osrt of people kicking up a fuss over this are people that read the Daily Mail and get sucked in by the bullshit the narrowminded media portray

 

He also goes to a Public/state School, which will teach him the things on the national curriculum, which is what all kids get taught in public schools as it is the law that they get taught these subjects. I think it is hard when it comes to funding for schools that aren't funded by the governement because essentially you then have to go to private companies for funding and I don't want my son being taught Maths as sponsered by Coke and no regulation as to what rubbish and lies they may be taught

 

Also, if privately funded schools can teach things outside of the national curriculum then you have retarded bullshit like creationism being taught and anyone that allows that crap near their child is a fool

[angelofdeath]

you then simply send a kid to a school that doesnt teach something you dont want your child learning.

 

i'm much more concerned about the government indoctrinating my kids with state worship courses, than some school i have a choice to send my kid to that might teach religion.

 

dont you think people who are religious should have the option to school there kids with this religion?

do you think its a bit totalitarian to deny parents to raise their kids with whatever religious beliefs they have?

 

which leads us to the main point of the debate... its the public schools. there would be no debate about school prayer, religion, etc in school if you didnt have government schools.

[Decyferon]

Well I dunno what kids get taught in America but there is no indoctrination of kids in our schools, they get taught the subjects they should, Maths English Language and Literature, Geography, History, a language of some kind, Art , Drama, etc etc they do have religious education as well but at no point in that do they say there is a god they just educate the kids as to what peoples religious beliefs are and the ceremonies

 

If my son was in a school that forced religion down his throat and told him that what they were teaching him was the actual TRUTH and not what some people belive then I would take him out of that school straight away

 

If a parent wants to teach their kid that there is 100% a god and you have to follow their word then thats up to the parents not the school, schools are to educate kids with facts not gibberish. Religion has nothing to do with the government here, like I said I dunno what rubbish the American government is teaching the kids in the USA, but religion should play no part in education as it teaches ignorance to things such as science and fact

[Decyferon]

I did actually go to a Catholic sixth form college for a bit but left, I was required to do religious lessons and the rubbish they spouted made me sick, every lesson I would ask where is the proof and they would return with bible verses etc and I would point out that is no proof of anything

[lord_casek]

 

 

 

Casek, NOT immunizing your kids would be irresponsable as fuck

there's no conspiracy of te pharmacy companies here, just a good old fashioned media scare.

 

 

If your kids are vaccinated, why are you worrying about what I would do to (for) mine?

 

 

Acel-Immune DTaP - Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis Wyeth-Ayerst 800.934.5556

* diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis adsorbed, formaldehyde, aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, thimerosal, and polysorbate 80 (Tween-80) gelatin Act HIB

 

Haemophilus - Influenza B Connaught Laboratories 800.822.2463

* Haemophilus influenza Type B, polyribosylribitol phosphate ammonium sulfate, formalin, and sucrose

 

Attenuvax - Measles Merck & Co., Inc. 800-672-6372

* measles live virus neomycin sorbitol hydrolized gelatin, chick embryo

 

Biavax - Rubella Merck & Co., Inc. 800-672-6372

* rubella live virus neomycin sorbitol hydrolized gelatin, human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue

 

BioThrax - Anthrax Adsorbed BioPort Corporation 517.327.1500

* nonencapsulated strain of Bacillus anthracis aluminum hydroxide, benzethonium chloride, and formaldehyde

 

DPT - Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis GlaxoSmithKline 800.366.8900 x5231

* diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis adsorbed, formaldehyde, aluminum phosphate, ammonium sulfate, and thimerosal, washed sheep RBCs

 

Dryvax - Smallpox (not licensed d/t expiration) Wyeth-Ayerst 800.934.5556

* live vaccinia virus, with "some microbial contaminants," according to the Working Group on Civilian Biodefense polymyxcin B sulfate, streptomycin sulfate, chlortetracycline hydrochloride, and neomycin sulfate glycerin, and phenol -a compound obtained by distillation of coal tar vesicle fluid from calf skins Engerix-B

 

Recombinant Hepatitis B GlaxoSmithKline 800.366.8900 x5231

* genetic sequence of the hepatitis B virus that codes for the surface antigen (HbSAg), cloned into GMO yeast, aluminum hydroxide, and thimerosal

 

Fluvirin Medeva Pharmaceuticals 888.MEDEVA 716.274.5300

* influenza virus, neomycin, polymyxin, beta-propiolactone, chick embryonic fluid

 

FluShield Wyeth-Ayerst 800.934.5556

* trivalent influenza virus, types A&B gentamicin sulphate formadehyde, thimerosal, and polysorbate 80 (Tween-80) chick embryonic fluid

 

Havrix - Hepatitis A GlaxoSmithKline 800.366.8900 x5231

* hepatitis A virus, formalin, aluminum hydroxide, 2-phenoxyethanol, and polysorbate 20 residual MRC5 proteins -human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue

 

HiB Titer - Haemophilus Influenza B Wyeth-Ayerst 800.934.5556

* haemophilus influenza B, polyribosylribitol phosphate, yeast, ammonium sulfate, thimerosal, and chemically defined yeast-based medium

 

Imovax Connaught Laboratories 800.822.2463

* rabies virus adsorbed, neomycin sulfate, phenol, red indicator human albumin, human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue

 

IPOL Connaught Laboratories 800.822.2463

* 3 types of polio viruses neomycin, streptomycin, and polymyxin B formaldehyde, and 2-phenoxyethenol continuous line of monkey kidney cells

 

JE-VAX - Japanese Ancephalitis Aventis Pasteur USA 800.VACCINE

* Nakayama-NIH strain of Japanese encephalitis virus, inactivated formaldehyde, polysorbate 80 (Tween-80), and thimerosal mouse serum proteins, and gelatin

 

LYMErix - Lyme GlaxoSmithKline 888-825-5249

* recombinant protein (OspA) from the outer surface of the spirochete Borrelia burgdorferi kanamycin aluminum hydroxide, 2-phenoxyethenol, phosphate buffered saline

 

MMR - Measles-Mumps-Rubella Merck & Co., Inc. 800.672.6372

* measles, mumps, rubella live virus, neomycin sorbitol, hydrolized gelatin, chick embryonic fluid, and human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue

 

M-R-Vax - Measles-Rubella Merck & Co., Inc. 800.672.6372

* measles, rubella live virus neomycin sorbitol hydrolized gelatin, chick embryonic fluid, and human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue

 

Menomune - Meningococcal Connaught Laboratories 800.822.2463

* freeze-dried polysaccharide antigens from Neisseria meningitidis bacteria, thimerosal, and lactose

 

Meruvax I - Mumps Merck & Co., Inc. 800.672.6372

* mumps live virus neomycin sorbitol hydrolized gelatin

 

NYVAC - (new smallpox batch, not licensed) Aventis Pasteur USA 800.VACCINE

* highly-attenuated vaccinia virus, polymyxcin B, sulfate, streptomycin sulfate, chlortetracycline hydrochloride, and neomycin sulfate glycerin, and phenol -a compound obtained by distillation of coal tar vesicle fluid from calf skins

 

Orimune - Oral Polio Wyeth-Ayerst 800.934.5556

* 3 types of polio viruses, attenuated neomycin, streptomycin sorbitol monkey kidney cells and calf serum

 

Pneumovax - Streptococcus Pneumoniae Merck & Co., Inc. 800.672.6372

* capsular polysaccharides from polyvalent (23 types), pneumococcal bacteria, phenol,

 

Prevnar Pneumococcal - 7-Valent Conjugate Vaccine Wyeth Lederle 800.934.5556

* saccharides from capsular Streptococcus pneumoniae antigens (7 serotypes) individually conjugated to diphtheria CRM 197 protein aluminum phosphate, ammonium sulfate, soy protein, yeast

 

RabAvert - Rabies Chiron Behring GmbH & Company 510.655.8729

* fixed-virus strain, Flury LEP neomycin, chlortetracycline, and amphotericin B, potassium glutamate, and sucrose human albumin, bovine gelatin and serum "from source countries known to be free of bovine spongioform encephalopathy," and chicken protein

 

Rabies Vaccine Adsorbed GlaxoSmithKline 800.366.8900 x5231

*rabies virus adsorbed, beta-propiolactone, aluminum phosphate, thimerosal, and phenol, red rhesus monkey fetal lung cells

 

Recombivax - Recombinant Hepatitis B Merck & Co., Inc. 800.672.6372

* genetic sequence of the hepatitis B virus that codes for the surface antigen (HbSAg), cloned into GMO yeast, aluminum hydroxide, and thimerosal

 

RotaShield - Oral Tetravalent Rotavirus (recalled) Wyeth-Ayerst 800.934.5556

* 1 rhesus monkey rotavirus, 3 rhesus-human reassortant live viruses neomycin sulfate, amphotericin B potassium monophosphate, potassium diphosphate, sucrose, and monosodium glutamate (MSG) rhesus monkey fetal diploid cells, and bovine fetal serum smallpox (not licensed due to expiration)

 

40-yr old stuff "found" in Swiftwater, PA freezer Aventis Pasteur USA 800.VACCINE

* live vaccinia virus, with "some microbial contaminants," according to the Working Group on Civilian Biodefense polymyxcin B sulfate, streptomycin sulfate, chlortetracycline hydrochloride, and neomycin sulfate glycerin, and phenol -a compound obtained by distillation of coal tar vesicle fluid from calf skins

 

Smallpox (new, not licensed) Acambis, Inc. 617.494.1339 in partnership with Baxter BioScience

* highly-attenuated vaccinia virus, polymyxcin B sulfate, streptomycin sulfate, chlortetracycline hydrochloride, and neomycin sulfate glycerin, and phenol -a compound obtained by distillation of coal tar vesicle fluid from calf skins

 

TheraCys BCG (intravesicle -not licensed in US for tuberculosis) Aventis Pasteur USA 800.VACCINE

* live attenuated strain of Mycobacterium bovis monosodium glutamate (MSG), and polysorbate 80 (Tween-80)

 

Tripedia - Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis Aventis Pasteur USA 800.VACCINE

*Corynebacterium diphtheriae and Clostridium tetani toxoids and acellular Bordetella pertussis adsorbed aluminum potassium sulfate, formaldehyde, thimerosal, and polysorbate 80 (Tween-80) gelatin, bovine extract

 

US-sourced Typhim Vi - Typhoid Aventis Pasteur USA SA 800.VACCINE

* cell surface Vi polysaccharide from Salmonella typhi Ty2 strain, aspartame, phenol, and polydimethylsiloxane (silicone)

 

Varivax - Chickenpox Merck & Co., Inc. 800.672.6372

* varicella live virus neomycin phosphate, sucrose, and monosodium glutamate (MSG) processed gelatin, fetal bovine serum, guinea pig embryo cells, albumin from human blood, and human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue

 

YF-VAX - Yellow Fever Aventis Pasteur USA 800.VACCINE

* 17D strain of yellow fever virus sorbitol chick embryo, and gelatin

[Decyferon]

You have schools in America that are teaching Creationism for crying out loud, to me that is laughable you are preparing your children to be the laughing stock of the world, you are right it is completely backwards. Schooling should be about Fact, there are no facts and no proof in religion. I certainly don't mind having my son taught about different cultures and their religious beliefs, but that is all they are beliefs not anything real.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do like America, chatting to you guys has raised my opinion of America completely, before I used 12oz I had very anti American views, I still am very anti the american government and their world police standpoint but that isn't a reflection of the American people.

 

But I still believe there are many fucked up things in America, such as no free healthcare for everyone, you taxes should be used for these social policies and NOT for the wars you fight and the massive amount of governemtn departments that are so shady (CIA, FBI, NSA etc etc)

 

As the leading nation in the world I think it is completely abhorrent that you also have so much poverty and the government tends to just ignore it, and I think as a country as a whole you have a very skewed view of socialism, there are positives to it and just because a country may adopt some social policies does not mean that you are now living in some communist state that dictates how you live, cos that is not how it is, certainly not where I live

 

Capatalism is the world now and there is no way past that, the world is ran by big business and money and it is something we just have to accept as nothing will change it unless the whole finiacial systems of the world completely collapsed and we started from ground zero again.

 

I think America could do with changing the way it words things, there are no god given rights, i hate the term in God we trust, obviously I have majorly Anti Religious views it is one of the most disgusting things that man has created and has caused more misery in this world than any other factor

[YouMad.GIF]

you then simply send a kid to a school that doesnt teach something you dont want your child learning.

 

you obviously dont have kids and have never dealt with an inability to get your kid in a school reasonably close to you, overcrowding, high demand. Kids would invariably get stuck in schools that taught things you didnt want them to learn because of overcrowding/distance restraints/full schools. All the good schools that taught real things would be in high demand and theres nothing right about people being forced to learn creationism or Math by Coke because they came up in the wrong place on a waiting list.

 

 

dude like I said, your a smart guy, but your ideals and concepts are so unrealistic and impractical sometimes it borders on fantasy. Its like communism - ONLY WORKS IN THEORY

[angelofdeath]

 

 

And don't try to tell me there still ain't alot of racism in the south and everywhere, its the reason why the Democrat and Republican parties swapped positions in the '60s because the democrats started passing civil rights legislation, they lost the southern democrat vote (the south was traditionally democratic). That was only one generation ago. I'm surprised we have a black president today considering the huge amount of racists in the Republican Party that voted against him. Don't you find it sad that we are the most backwards of the 1st world nations? Poor Decyferon here thinks we are teaching that religion is truth in our public schools! lol that's ridiculous. But its a real fear for us living in America with a bunch of religious fundamentalists. Religious beliefs are personal and individual to each person. I don't think any belief should be taught as dogma.

 

i think its pretty simplistic to say that the parties swapped simply because of 60's civil rights issues.

this is an entire subject to its self...

 

im always surprised at the way the left thinks.

an opposition party to a president who happens to be black is always going to be viewed as 'racist.' however if a white person is president, i never hear people saying blacks are racist if they oppose a white republican.

 

religious fundamentalists pose no threat to you at all in a free society, any more than hippies pose to gun nuts. if you would actually forget about your totalitarian ideas you push by using government, such as forced integration of races, elimination of racism and thought crimes, banishing any form of religion, etc, and worried about cutting back the role of the government its self, you would have the freedom to do as you please and no 'religious fundamentalist' would have any power over you, anymore than a hippie or dope addict would have control over me. the only threat a 'religious fundamentalist' has over you is if they get into the government and force you to go to church, or force your kid to pray in PUBLIC schools. dont you realize the exact opposite of what you want can easily happen? evil religious zealots can get into power and teach your kids creationism and capitalists will go on and on and indoctrinate your kids with the virtues of the free market.

 

why are you so against what someone does? if a person wants to send a kid to private school, and that school teaches creationism, what business is if of yours? if certain kids have various religious beliefs, why can these kids not voluntarily pray at public school if they want?

 

Any lifestyle that frees us from the yoke of capitalist consumerism is frowned upon. I would like to see protectionism of fair trade, not free trade. Since free trade has been the standard since the civil war for both parties, its hard to see change on the horizon. I think many people are waking up to the dangers of free trade but since it pays politicians so well public policy isn't likely to change until there is some radical shift (be it peaceful revolution or collapse of the system).

 

excuse me, but this is just a crazy statement. the US is still a very protectionist nation. starting just after the civil war, (one of the chief causes was in fact the tariff) the republican party has championed a tariff in its platform and ran the protectionist tariffs high. FDR had a hellacious tariff going on during the depression, further putting the country into economic calamity.

 

the US still has super high sugar tariffs, which is why sugar is not used in coca cola in the US. Bush put a tariff on steel, obama just put a huge tariff on imported tires, making it so poor people cant afford tires now.

 

we have plenty of protectionism, and we need LESS of this.

why would an 'anarchist' call for government putting up economic barriers impeding the free exchange of various goods??

 

and back to a slight tangent on your 'southern' and 'racist' comments...

how can you be an anarchist and get mad that people might voluntarily segregate themselves? what about freedom of association? lets say the state was abolished today. what is wrong with italians that like to all live in the same neighborhood? or blacks that all like to live together? from the way anarchists talk, is that if the state was abolished tomorrow and people starting self segregating out of free choice, you would have to create a totalitarian bureaucracy to rearrange society into the perfect example of racial harmony.

[angelofdeath]

You have schools in America that are teaching Creationism for crying out loud, to me that is laughable you are preparing your children to be the laughing stock of the world, you are right it is completely backwards. Schooling should be about Fact, there are no facts and no proof in religion. I certainly don't mind having my son taught about different cultures and their religious beliefs, but that is all they are beliefs not anything real.

 

so wait, americans, because people have a natural right to allow their children to be taught in a private school about religion, we are the laughing stock of the entire world?

i think this is nothing more than FREEDOM. suppressing religion is why this country was founded in the first place.

 

you may think that you want your kids to be taught to be athiests, others may want their kids to be brought up in a christian school... whose business is it what either of these parties does?

answer: its nobody's damn business who teaches their kids what. end of story.

 

But I still believe there are many fucked up things in America, such as no free healthcare for everyone, you taxes should be used for these social policies and NOT for the wars you fight and the massive amount of governemtn departments that are so shady (CIA, FBI, NSA etc etc)

 

this is impossible. by and large the right wants the wars, the left wants the social policies. for each to get their ways, they both log roll... so we have both. you cannot have one without the other.

 

the answer? get rid of it all.

 

the mistake hte left makes.... you cannot have a state that only does warm cuddly things like tends to the sick and dying and the underpriviledged minorities. its like wishing for a lion that only purrs and cuddles or a viper that only does a little dance.

they will both tear your ass up.

[angelofdeath]

you obviously dont have kids and have never dealt with an inability to get your kid in a school reasonably close to you, overcrowding, high demand. Kids would invariably get stuck in schools that taught things you didnt want them to learn because of overcrowding/distance restraints/full schools. All the good schools that taught real things would be in high demand and theres nothing right about people being forced to learn creationism or Math by Coke because they came up in the wrong place on a waiting list.

 

 

dude like I said, your a smart guy, but your ideals and concepts are so unrealistic and impractical sometimes it borders on fantasy. Its like communism - ONLY WORKS IN THEORY

 

na, i think most of the policies have worked in america's past.

 

just because you have the liberty to school a child as you want, doesnt mean it would be easy. sure things might not be as convenient.

 

the market would obviously sort things out.

 

to think that it wouldnt just isnt facing reality.

 

if we had socialized food distribution, you would be saying the same thing. 'but its inconvenient to drive to get food, high demand and the good stores, and long lines.'

but i dont see these problems. i only see those problems in sectors that are either government run, government subsidized or overly regulated by the government.

[angelofdeath]

They are quick to call anyone on the left "communists" or "socialists" invoking patriotism and jingoism.

 

the left has been calling right wingers fascists for years.

the left even stole the word 'liberal' from the classical liberals. 'conservative' has been hijacked by the neo cons.

 

the funny part...

both sides are right...

however both terms apply to both sides. the left and the right are both a combo of fascists and socialists.

[TheoHuxtable..]

Conservatives are defending these corporations and health insurance companies against a public option in the name of "defending free-market capitalism" against "big government" & "socialism".

 

What many Republicans/conservatives fail to realize is that there exists a difference between capitalism & corporatism. I think a healthy "capitalist" society is a healthy balance of competition amongst businesses that allows the consumer to choose from a variety of high-quality products & services at lowered, reasonable prices. Corporatism on the other hand is anti-capitalist, because it thrives on eliminating as much competition as possible in order to increase profit, offering the consumer a degraded product or service at a higher price. Certain industry in this country reaches a tipping point in which healthy capitalism no longer exists, and corporatism takes over. And the health care industry is one of them (partly because they only compete with other companies per state, not nationwide). And that's when it's time the government steps in to keep the corporations in check. And that time is now.

 

 

bumped for truth

[angelofdeath]

Now that you are done, the grown ups can carry on with the discussion

[TheoHuxtable..]

DAO is right; the founding fathers were generally liberals/progressives. The entire idea of declaring independence from a monarchy to set up a democratic republic is a progressive idea. A "conservative" idea during that period would be to have accepted the King's reign and British rule.

 

Conservatives fear change. Which is why they're up-in-arms about health care reform today. Conservatives were also up-in-arms about Civil Rights in the 1960's. Conservatives were the ones in the 1800's that seceded from the North and feared abolitionists. They fear change & reform, even if for the better. Just look at the etymology of "conservative", and it means to conserve; to keep the same. A progressive wants to continue to achieve progress for the better.

 

And I'm shocked there are conservatives on a graffiti forum. I figured most, if not all writers tend to think like liberals/progressives. But at least it makes discussion more interesting; if we were all liberals here, we'd mostly be agreeing with each other.

[angelofdeath]

DAO is right; the founding fathers were generally liberals/progressives. The entire idea of declaring independence from a monarchy to set up a democratic republic is a progressive idea. A "conservative" idea during that period would be to have accepted the King's reign and British rule.

 

Conservatives fear change. Which is why they're up-in-arms about health care reform today. Conservatives were also up-in-arms about Civil Rights in the 1960's. Conservatives were the ones in the 1800's that seceded from the North and feared abolitionists. They fear change & reform, even if for the better. Just look at the etymology of "conservative", and it means to conserve; to keep the same. A progressive wants to continue to achieve progress for the better.

 

dude.

 

what are you talking about?

the founding fathers were classical liberals. this is about the exact opposite of a 'progressive.'

progressives were big government, the founding fathers, even alexander hamilton would despise any of the programs any progressive would support.

to think the founding generation was comprised of big government liberals and not individualist classical liberals (libertarians today) it clearly shows you have done an absolutely insignificant amount of research on this topic. you must be getting your education from keith olbermann or your new found friend bill oreilly, since he supports your healthcare proposal.

 

you are correct to a certain extent the founding fathers were not 'conservatives.'

but the main point you miss about the revolution that drew together the monarchists to the anarchists was that they all believed that the king and parliament had taken away their traditional english liberties. this can easily be seen as a 'conservative' idea.

 

if you make the case that the people who seceded from great britain were 'progressives' but the people who seceded from the united states government in 1861 were conservative, your compass must be royally fucked.

 

if you are trying to brand me as a 'conservative,' have fun.

i have given up on the term, as it no longer means 'conserving' the constitution and rule of law. it means being a big government idiot. take a look at bush and 99% of the republican party.

 

as for healthcare and the constitution...

anybody with any education can skim the constitution and figure out that the only powers congress has are enumerated in article 1 section 8. all other powers are left to the people and/or the states through the 9th and 10th amendment. therefore 85-90% of what the federal government does, is UNCONSTITUTIONAL from a originalist, lets follow the constitution's rule of law, standpoint.

 

of course modern statist progressive socialist liberals believe that anything is constitutional just because they can make a warm and cuddly argument for the policy.

[angelofdeath]

Your ignorance is so mind numbing that there's no point in even responding anymore. :headache:

 

i really wish you would just stop responding, but...

shit, you just responded to me again