the internet and how it has affected graffiti

[ActingStupid]

i looked and i didn't find anything solely for this topic. And because of the weather in my area i'm currently spending a lot of time on here.

 

One thing i've that really bugs me about the internet and graffiti is that people don't have to go out and put in work anymore. you can have things at a few good track sides and in a couple other good places, post that shit on the internet and people will be see it in real life and be like "Oh yeah i've seen/heard of thisdude before."

 

You don't have to go out and meet people if they like your shit and you post your own shit(which also bugs the fuck out of me, self promo/posting your crews stuff) If you want to meet someone you can just send each other a few pm's and with a few clicks you're headed to another state.

 

You don't even have to leave your house to get your own style (if you dont want to) it seems like the whole local graff style thing is dying.

 

I guess maybe im just being bitter but i was curious as to what other people thought.

[Enortles]

Yeah it affected graff, now people go on a forum and ask people what name they should write.

[ActingStupid]

haha that is true. but i was wondering a little more of how it affected it.

[Schnitzel]

yes it have affected it but the true talents still stand out in the sea of mediocrity that is graffiti nowadays.

but as far as networking goes it ceratianly beats having your home address in the back page of hiphop connection magazine all those years ago

[BluntHead$]

i like graffiti on the internet i just started writing and i learned allot of history threw the internet but as far as posting your shit online thats some toy shit IMO

[~KRYLON2~]

the internet has its gives and takes. but overall, nothing beats actually riding the train to take pictures, and find spots. 12oz is just a way for me to kill time.

[ActingStupid]

I think finding out history through the internet is stupid although i have had my share just from looking at the site. But, i kind've have the whole idea of if it looks old, don't go over it, because it is history. if it's lasted that long whether it be a graffiti writer or just someone writing steve '71 or something. I wasn't aware that people used to put their address and stuff, I wasn't around for that. It just seems like people can network through here and be ending up in all kinds of different places, BUT the only reason that people know them is because they post onliine, they dont really have any ups except for the net.

[thelowerclass]

Its given legal walls a lot more success.

 

People feel no need to risk it with an illegal piece when they can just do it on a legal wall, post it on the internet (and pass it off as an illegal spot to look hardcore) and not care if someone goes over it the next day since they're looking for online fame not local fame.

[ActingStupid]

and it's also brought a lot more few cops to hangout around those legal walls.

[skeedupfromthefeetup]

the internet makes alot of writers lazy....they just sit there and wait for flicks of new shit to be posted, instead of going out and flicking it themselves

[SaenOen]

internet has straight up ruined graffiti.

 

writers get busted, people start beef (since they don't feel like carrying out confrontation face to face), people believe whoever has the most flicks posted is the one putting in the most work, and keep in mind, websites like bombingscience are cop central.

[nightsblood]

where i live the internet has made it impossible to keep any spot secret. toys go around and flick every spot near where they live, then they all pm each other on this stupid site or bombing science and ask "where was that pic taken?" so now every chill spot is covered with internet toy garbage. when i started writing in the early 90's, spots where you could paint in the day were often kept secret with only one crew painting there.

[Swindle]

the internet has taught me some shit. i can never find other writers so i gotta do everything on my own.

 

but yeah it has caused an influx of toys

[Feed Yer Ego]

12oz is dope

 

artcrimes used to be cool

 

some other shit

 

but faggotry forums like bombingscience are terrible

 

nothing as detrimental as youtube tho IMHO

 

all the lame product reviews, tutorials, self-promo from toys

 

not to mention it's made mediocre kids like Above and those SDK faggots superstars to ignorant toys all around the world

 

dudes just film themselves doing little half assed pieces in the middle of nowhere and kids from suburbs of every city are jocking them while i'm pretty sure they (SDK, Above, etc.) aren't held in such high regard in their local scenes

[Edward Orenthal Norton]

im sort of in a middle ground on the issue.

i personally had no one to teach me how to do anything in graff. so ive learned almost everything(besides the the things ive figured out on my own) via the internet. i also see it as a great way to see what people are doing not just in your city, or state, but the whole country, if not the world.

 

but when it becomes a way of seeking easy fame, thats really false and has no work to back it is a problem.

i am 100% against self promotion on this board or anyother. if your putting work in and effort you will gain real recongtion.

and when you can go on flickR and search yourself and 2 pages of flicks show up that other people have posted you have accomplished real fame.

but if you roll on to your local yard paint 5 trains and post them up. youre just faking it.

you might get acknowladge by 20 kids on this board. but when you really start talking to real heads that ARE out there in the yards or on the streets they know you arent shit.

 

so the internet is the biggest double edged sword in graffiti.

[earl broclo ESQ]

This thread is way over due, if it hasn't already been done.

 

I think the internet is a double edged sword. It has definitely opened doors for some people, who deserve it. It's also blown the whole art form up on a global scale.

 

But --I pretty much agree with you on your first post. I've been following graffiti since the early 90's. I found it mainly through skateboarding, hip hop, and taking the commuter rail. When I got my license (1991), I began seeing it off the highway and pulling off at the next exit to find it. That was when I started getting curious about it. In 1995, I ran into a friend from high school who was painting. He actually turned me on to 12oz prophet the magazine. Issue #1 had just been released, and it was pretty local for me at that time. From there I started looking for other magazines, finding more spots, paying attention to names and styles, walking the commuter track, etc. So I was just an outsider keeping tabs on what people were doing.

 

So I think I enjoyed it better when I actually had to go out and search for it on my own. Sometimes you'd walk a few miles to find nothing, other times you'd find a solid crew's hidden wall.

 

Now, the instant gratification has made it more about e-fame than anything else. Kids posting e-beef videos on youtube and kids who paint like a circus chimp, posting videos on there as well.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0UXn_77V4c

 

 

The forums are the worst though. I think 12oz. is actually pretty good, but there is some shit I could personally do with out. Unfortunately, that is out of everyone's hands. I have looked at other forums, to see what they are like, and it's always disappointing. It really is toys promoting toys, then giving each other high fives. I mean 12oz. has that, but I know for fact that there is also a greater roster of real talent trolling this forum. Most of you don't even know it, and I wonder how many have told them they were "probably a toy ass faggot from the burbs." That's the shit I find funny.

 

I don't understand why you'd want to self promote though. Maybe if you've been doing it for a while, and want more control over how your pieces are portrayed. But it's usually young kids doing it, and they'll go paint some dead wall, flick it, run online, post it, and wait for "the propz." I usually see it back fire, and the kids usually never take the hint. Instead, they come back with some "nigga please" bullshit and get all huffy and puffy online. I think the gratification should be more about someone else finding it, respecting it enough to flick it, then posting it up without even knowing who you are in a line up.

[Swindle]

yeah i know of a few big names who are on 12oz, who i would never have picked. one is a a total snob cunt too which is sad coz this one guy in particular is really talented. :lol:

 

 

im sort of in a middle ground on the issue.

i personally had no one to teach me how to do anything in graff. so ive learned almost everything(besides the the things ive figured out on my own) via the internet.

 

this was what i wass trying to say but was too lazy/distracted to get it out in words

[shai]

not to mention it's made mediocre kids like Above...superstars to ignorant toys all around the world

 

I've been to the town where ABOVE is from, and please believe that there's NOTHING going on there (it's a tiny town of about 3,000 people in the boonies of Northern California). He did his thing in SF then moved on to Paris and while I'm not a huge fan of what he does- it's all right but it's not exactly graff...I don't blame him for the confusion, though- I respect him for getting out of the sticks and making a name for himself. Not many people have what it takes to make that happen...and he did it through hard work, and not via the internet.

 

Unfortunately, that is out of everyone's hands.

 

Not yours! I'm sorry, man, but you really need to keep your pimp hand strong...I know you know the difference between what's real and what's crap, and even though the forum isn't your full time job we need someone to keep the bullshit in check. No one who knows what's up is going to get mad at you for pulling cards on people that deserve it. (Think of this as a vote of confidence and a push in the right direction, not me telling you how to handle things, and you'll be straight.)

 

Even though I sort of agree and think the internet hasn't been that good for graffiti overall, complaining about it is sort of like admitting defeat or an unwillingness to adapt. There's always been haters and herbs in graffiti, all the internet does is bring them out into the light on a global scale...and if you can't see the forest because of the trees then blaming it on the internet doesn't entitle you to a hood pass or old school credentials.

 

As far as there being some heavy hitters on 12 oz, you'd be surprised. I've talked to a few (at a distance)...there's a lot of quality writers on here but they don't say much because actions speak a hell of a lot louder than words.

[Swindle]

i'm talking about one particular person.

 

shai you would make an efficient mod

[Feed Yer Ego]

I've been to the town where ABOVE is from, and please believe that there's NOTHING going on there (it's a tiny town of about 3,000 people in the boonies of Northern California). He did his thing in SF then moved on to Paris and while I'm not a huge fan of what he does- it's all right but it's not exactly graff...I don't blame him for the confusion, though- I respect him for getting out of the sticks and making a name for himself. Not many people have what it takes to make that happen...and he did it through hard work, and not via the internet.

 

nah not the street art guy.

 

this kid

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/ubuv

 

 

ubuv

Joined: July 31, 2006

Last Sign In: 3 months ago

Videos Watched: 8,369

Subscribers: 13,224

Channel Views: 709,901

 

272 videos

[shai]

Okay, definitely not the same guy. :yuck:

 

The whole "instant fame on the internet" thing isn't limited to graffiti (*ahem Tila Tequila)...it just adds a new dimension to what is essentially self-promotion. Depending on your opinion, you could look at it as cheating or marketing genius and in either case you'd probably be right.

 

The guys who I "learned" the game from and grew up with either consider the internet a write off or they look at it as a way to make money...and again, they're both right. It just depends on how you want to see it and what you want to make of it. In the latter case, they aren't the kind of guys who are going to be starting threads on 12 oz about themselves or their crews or their cities...they'd probably have someone set up a professional site for their fine art and graphic work and maybe show a few examples of stuff they did on the street as an aside or to give some idea of their range of talent, since they're past the point of needing to make a name for themselves in graffiti.

[Feed Yer Ego]

where i live the internet has made it impossible to keep any spot secret. toys go around and flick every spot near where they live, then they all pm each other on this stupid site or bombing science and ask "where was that pic taken?" so now every chill spot is covered with internet toy garbage. when i started writing in the early 90's, spots where you could paint in the day were often kept secret with only one crew painting there.

 

that sucks big time

 

nobody shares spots with me other than the people who know me personally (and vice versa)

 

would never even think of giving that kinda info out

 

i have gotten weird messages on forums and youtube from toys/cops asking me where spots are tho

 

i always assume it's pigs and immediately get way sketched out and consider changing my screenname

 

 

imo not much is as fun as literally stumbling upon a great chill spot via good ol fashioned urban exploration

[shai]

As far as I'm concerned, once you put a spot on the internet, it's done. Well, at least it's common knowledge at that point. Anyone who asks you for directions is probably a cop or they're lazy.

[earl broclo ESQ]

Not yours! I'm sorry, man, but you really need to keep your pimp hand strong...I know you know the difference between what's real and what's crap, and even though the forum isn't your full time job we need someone to keep the bullshit in check. No one who knows what's up is going to get mad at you for pulling cards on people that deserve it. (Think of this as a vote of confidence and a push in the right direction, not me telling you how to handle things, and you'll be straight.)

 

 

You have to remember how much traffic there is in Brickslayers, and how many threads need to be monitored. It's impossible to keep tabs on everything. When it comes to deleting anything I think is shit, yeah it is great in theory, but it's more of a pain in the ass. Trust me, if you get some idiot e-thug who wants to self promote, won't listen to you, and keeps talking shit --a ban isn't going to help. It's just throwing fuel on the fire. They'll make six more screen names, come back, do it again. Then we'll IP ban them, and they'll find a way around that. Then we're at step one again.

 

I think you and I have the same opinion about how Brickslayers should be run. Photos only would be ideal, but since we can't have that, we'd prefer a more mature crowd. Unfortunately, we have a whole lot of young kids coming on this site, so it's hard to really curb that shit. You just have to face the fact that you're growing old, and how you remember things is completely different from what these kids to day are doing.

 

It does make for some entertaining content sometimes.

[earl broclo ESQ]

As for ABOVE --I thought you were talking about ABOVE (UPS), and I was going to call you crazy. That dude has fucking style.

[podrido]

i found this great article on a good friend of mines profile( i know kind of hypocritical)

felt good reading it

 

 

 

 

INTERNET KILLED THE GHETTO SUPERSTAR By Frank Castle

Years ago, if you were hardcore, you were involved in some pretty deep shit – living life on the fringes of society, not giving a fuck about what was popular or the ‘in thing’. Nonconformist, hardcore lifestyles were for the true diehards who were willing to risk being ostracised by society for what they loved – whether it was graffiti, punk music, tunnel infiltration, porn or any other subculture that was frowned upon by society at large. For decades, real hardcore porn was outlawed in most of the Western world – porn shoots took place in total secrecy. Its stars were at risk of serious criminal charges and were under constant threat of arrest. Ron Jeremy (undoubtedly, the king of hardcore porn) was investigated by the FBI, for his involvement in the formative years of the US porn industry. But he stayed strong, kept it going – filming in secret locations, dodging the police and keeping the underground porn movement alive, until it was legalised. Likewise, graffiti was a very difficult subculture to gain access to. In the 80s, fair enough, you could go down to a writer’s bench and find x amount of the top vandals in any given town. But to actually get down with these people, go to train yards and do some damage, was another story. Back then, it was almost exclusively an illegal pursuit. You’d live the hardcore lifestyle from the time you woke up until you went to bed, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. That was it, GRAFFITI. Steal your paint, bomb the top deck of the bus, bomb the tubes inside and out, sneak into yards, get chased by the Old Bill, get raided by BTP – real hardcore living that infected a generation. Everything was done in secret. Sure, Subway Art revealed some of the methods writers use, but there was still so much that was shrouded in mystery – that graffiti really was an enigmatic culture that was penetrated by very few. Nowadays, however, the term hardcore is losing its sting. The true meaning of hardcore, in my humble opinion, is being eroded. The main perpetrator behind this dilution of hardcore is the Internet, and anyone who wants to buy into a subculture that they never would have had access to if it wasn’t for the Internet. Anything you can think of from the darkest, sickest porn, to the strangest, most out-there tunnel explorers, branches of Al Qaeda, brain-washing cults, month-long raves in deepest Ukraine and everything else in between. The only limit, really, is your imagination. Ok, so you might still have to try and infiltrate some of these subcultures that are so freely available, but how many of today’s youngsters learned everything they know about the subculture they represent through the Net? Quite a few, is my guess. How can you ever call yourself a hardcore graffiti writer, when all you did was log on to Google, type in graffiti, find an online shop, order your ‘Trackside Pack’ – containing 6 silvers, 6 blacks, a mask and gloves – and then used Google Earth to find directions to the best trackside plot in your area? Likewise, how can you call yourself a true exponent of the underground Cataphile movement in Paris, if all you did was log on to the Net, look up the Catacombs and get in touch with some guys who agreed to show you the secrets of Paris’ underbelly? In the 21st century a hardcore way of life can often be contrived – many try to tick all the boxes, replicate what’s already gone before them and live out their so-called hardcore lifestyle, according to the rules and guidelines they read on the Net, rather than simply living and breathing it. That’s not to say that every young person out there can’t be a diehard. Far from it, but nowadays it’s very rare to find an authentic case, and even rarer to see it maintained. We live in an age where everyone has to conform – even the most rebellious individuals find it difficult to fight against the unstoppable force of conformity. It’s nigh on impossible to defeat, so why not go with the flow, eh? We’ve all done it – dyed our hair black and gone goth, got a tattoo, painted a train, injected heroin, joined in with ten other guys to fuck a whore on camera… Whatever it was that you did, with the intention of becoming a hardcore rebel, going against the grain of society, you went out and did it. But it’s all been done before, only more authentic, more original – with no agenda, just straight up real – so it was pointless, right? In 2008, I truly believe that the real hardcore fuckers are the ones holding down a 9-to-5 and still doing their own thing on the downlow. Representing their true beliefs, while fooling society at large into believing they’re just another conformist number. Infiltrating the old boy’s network, the UK’s elitist institutions, playing the game, but winning. Why? Because we haven’t lost our essence. We may be physically trapped in the rat race, but our brains run on different fuel and, when we have our own time and space, we let loose. There’s a whole generation of new hardcore rebels out there leading that double life – working hard, keeping up the façade and enjoying a large slice of hardcore. In essence, what I’m trying to say is, hardcore – whatever it is you’re doing in terms of lifestyle or mentality – is something that you really can’t buy into. Hardcore is an old school mentality and a way of doing things that many aspire to, but few can replicate. Those that do manage it, are either ostracised or so deep in the ‘Matrix’ that you’ll never know.

[podrido]

...

[podrido]

wow sorry

[Oaks]

the internet makes alot of writers lazy....they just sit there and wait for flicks of new shit to be posted, instead of going out and flicking it themselves

 

You need to remember some peeps dont live in heavy populated areas.

 

Like some have said it has its positives and negatives, but when it comes to graff on-line, I think it fucked it up more than anything.

 

The fame/info thats available on-line is my main problem.

[Baron Von Counterculture]

I've been lucky enough to travel and the one thing I've consistently noticed is that the internet (generally) creates a distorted perception of who is actually up in a given city. If you look at websites or even forum threads for city 'X' and then you actually go there, often there is a significant difference from the impressions you can get from the web. If posting flicks was based on merit alone and not affected by petty scene politics (that dude fucked my sister/went over me/punched me in the face so I'm not gonna post his shit and conversely I have known this guy since primary school and regardless of how weak his style is I'm gonna post up continuously) and if the merit of each could be universally accepted and not affected by an individual sense of aesthetics/realness then this might be different.

 

Summary for the wall o' text haters:

I think the main danger of the internet is the assumption that it reflects the actual reality of graffiti in a certain place, rather than just a fragment of it, as well as the laziness it encourages in a range of areas, from styles to spots to 'cheap fame'...