~Paris Riots~

[WhiteOx]

They also doused an old lady in petrol and lit her up (allegedly). Shes alive.

[Guest imported_Tesseract]

Originally posted by KaBar2@Nov 12 2005, 03:33 AM

Tesseract---

Not bad, six insults, no comprehension. Perhaps you simply can't understand, but instead, I believe you simply choose not to. We simply disagree profoundly, and I doubt we will ever come to anything approximating communication. It's not so much a matter of me seeing everything as "black & white" as it is me having been on both sides of the fence. I'm sure, as you mature and have some more life experiences, that your viewpoints will change some. Possibly not the same changes I have made, but I doubt seriously your opinions will remain as left wing and socialistic as they presently seem to be.

 

The changes in my life were adaptations to the things I experienced. The changes in your life will no doubt be colored by the things that you experience. I became an anarchist at age 17, and remained active and dedicated until the age of 26 or so, and still peripherially involved into my early 30's. That doesn't seem like a shallow commitment to me. It probably cost me at least $140,000 in lost wages, or more. My biggest regret is that for all that effort, so little was produced. It was a colossal waste of time and energy. My wife and I have made tremendous strides economically, once we started playing "catch up." My political opinions were changed by the things I saw and did and suffered during those years. You accuse me of being less than "versatile." Quite to the contrary, I think I am quite versatile. My opinions were very slow to change (well, 14 years--is that slowly or quickly?) but once I changed, I embraced the change fully.

 

 

Quoted post

 

I didnt count the insults but the whole thing still makes sense to me. You're definatelly right, we dont agree and never will. I dunno man, you never make sense to me with your selective way of thinking. So lets just leave it there forever.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by WhiteOx@Nov 13 2005, 12:31 PM

They also doused an old lady in petrol and lit her up (allegedly). Shes alive.

Quoted post

 

 

thats weak.......I saw a dude snatch up an old lady one time at a gas station. He was yelling at her telling her to give him his wallet. I figured he was robbing her and just saying that so he could argue that the wallet was his if anybody saw it. Well, I ran up on dude and told him to chill out and that if he didn't take his hands off the old lady that I would snatch him up. There was a handful of dudes sitting behind us just sitting there and I looked at them for backup if this cat tried to get flippy. They just shrugged at me like whatever. I was super pissed off at those guys. All I could think was , damn, what happened to people?? Is everyone on crack??

Well, anyway, It turned out the Old lady was a crackhead too, and she did pick his wallet up off the ground and tried to slip away. At that point I felt worse than before. Is it just me? maybe I'm too old fashioned in some ways.

seriously,

The world is a ghetto mang.

 

sorry, this had nothing to do with the thread...I'm going to post this in channel zero.

[Weapon X]

I don't think that John Birch's suggestion, or rather, just a thought that some of the Muslims in the ghettoes of Paris should maybe think about leaving are in line with Le Pen. I don't know much, but I think Le Pen is far more 'right wing' than that.

 

And Kabar, you've got some real good reads in here.

 

 

 

SOME ULTRA-PROGRESSIVE AND BLEEDING HEART PEOPLE ARE SO QUICK TO JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS. THEY'RE SO BUSY TRYING TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES THAT THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE LINES WRITTEN.

[rattleytins]

To be honest i think that if people choose Paris over their origional home (be it due to better prospects, wars, or whatever) i think Paris are very kind to let them in and support them. I understand these people may encounter racism or unemployment, but at the end of the day if they dont like Paris then they should go home. I hate to sound like a ranting NF activist, but i just think that if France offers them a better life they should be grateful, and if they want to fuck up France and cause major problems, they should consider their reasons for being in France rather than their home country.

[rattleytins]

oh and how about SF1 fuckin off and stop bein such a badman makin internet beef, please leave this is sposed to be a serious thread

[dumy]

haha...people act as if these kids jumped off the boat from "Muslim-land" yesterday or some shit..these are FRENCH CITIZENS..who should be afforded the same rights and priveledges as any other frenchman or woman regardless of their skin color, religion or economic background..these kids aren't rioting because they are too lazy to find a job, that makes no fucking sense....they are rioting in a response to systematic racism and classism inherent in France towards them..get a fucking clue..c'mon

[Soup]

How the hell did page three on this thread turn to shit?

 

Anyone know what the general response from French citizens are having about these riots? Is everyone freaking out? Is it a surprise to them that all this started? If this is mostly Muslim-Arab teens doing the rioting, what role are the parents playing? Why do 12oz members like to YAK more then they like to ask questions?

[Guest imported_b0b]

Originally posted by Weapon X@Nov 6 2005, 11:53 AM

I'm fucking wasted, and this might be wrong, but most of these rioters, I'm assuming, were brought here by slaveship, whereas Muslims migrated to European nations (which they fought not too long ago) looking for work.

 

Quoted post

 

Dude are peopel stil lbeing taken as slaves to America in this day and age? Or are those rioters 200 years old?

[SF1]

Are they still rioting or is that over?

What's the update?

[villain]

nah... now they are blaming rap music.

fucking idiots. not rapping about reality is not going to change reality. in fact it's always been an open dialog that french society has ignored and brushed off. when talk doesn't work, people resort to violence. it's a very elementary principle.

 

this thread has turned into vapid ideological tangents. that's what i hate about organized politics is that people always think there is a cookie cutter solution for everything. instead of our reactionary conditioning speaking let's just focus on the situation.

 

-the people in the ghettos should be in charge of their own destiny-

=when you are poor and powerless you do not create your own destiny as though you are on the wide open frontier. these people cannot find sufficient work, it is this impotence that creates the explosions of untapped energy directed against their oppressors. saying they should be in control of their own lives and work and take care of their own is a cop out. you are not even acknowledging the real problem, inequality.=

 

-why don't they just go back to north and west africa if they don't like france so much?-

=again these people are poor and powerless. most of them probably only get barely enough to survive if that. then again, what are they going to do in africa? they have nothing, they are going to nothing, they are not even citizens of those african nations. and these people are probably more french culturally than african now. they are french citizens and should be treated as such. if the ethnic french are too comfortable with their federally sanctioned socialist priveledge and are unwilling to expand resources for the immigrants and children of immigrants in order to stimulate the economy into growth then they will have to deal with the stagnant cancer they created. If they would only extend opportunities to their fellow french of other ethnic origin the impetus for growth would be created and everyone could rise from this economic sinkhole. social programs should empower people, turn them into assets instead of liabilities, but instead we have bread and circus, the rich and powerful fearful of an empowered people, even though that would ultimately benefit everyone. they prefer to be elitist, absolutist, and all powerful. =

 

we have been in the information age for years now. that will not change anytime soon. we have watched labor slip out of our hands from the 1st world to the 3rd world (using antiquated terminology for lack of a better term... i can't even use industrialized because we are becoming unindustrialized.) and that is the tendency of capitalism, cruel and efficient as it is. we cannot change that so long as there is greed in the world. since communism failed when it squared off head to head with capitalism, communism (i will say socialism from here out since it sounds nicer) must be reshaped to emphasize it's greatest attribute: Ideology/humanism/heart and soul, people power. It cannot win the material war. So instead it should give people the power of knowledge. The internet is even making the dissemination of knowledge easier and cheaper. All we have to do is recognize this force and capitalize on it.

 

This is the beginning of the technological singularity. Scientific advancement is going to exponentially expand to the point where we will hardly even recognize or even fathom what is beyond the horizon. Economic growth is an inevitable byproduct. We (the capital/social hybrid countries) can jump on this trend and run with it and become leaders or we will fall before the countries that have a formula more like: socialist/foundation+meritocratic/catalyst=capitalist/result. Countries such as china, singapore, etc. etc. These countries are allowing people to fulfill their own potentials and then pay back their nation, while we are being forced to pay before fulfilling our potential. If one cannot pay one cannot fulfil their potential obviously. These more meritocratic countries are maximizing their human potential and having enormous rates of economic growth.

 

Capitalizing on human potential is the catalyst for the technological singularity, not capitalizing on labor, resources, and desire as was in the industrial revolution. Either we will understand this as a society and join our fellow mankind in our progress into the future, or we will falter and fail in our old paradigms, prejudices and fears.

 

Let's face it, socialism and capitalism are diametrically opposed and have only stymied each other, I believe meritocracy is what we need to bridge the gap.

[SF1]

Capitalism is gonna devour itself.

[H. Lecter]

FRESH FISH

 

 

 

 

By ANGELA DOLAND, Associated Press Writer

Tue Dec 20, 4:39 PM ET

 

 

French Vote Rally Turns Into Shouting Match

C.O. AP

 

CLICHY-SOUS-BOIS, France - A rapper, an actor and a fashion designer teamed up Tuesday to urge young minorities to vote, taking the message to the troubled French neighborhood that was the epicenter of rioting last month.

 

 

But the rally in Clichy-sous-Bois to encourage youths to register and cast ballots in France's 2007 presidential elections soon turned into a shouting match.

 

"Vote for who?" 28-year-old Boris Gamthety yelled into the microphone. "We have no one to represent us."

 

In the aftermath of the three weeks of rioting, politicians are trying to address the frustrations and disenfranchisement of young minorities who feel France has never accepted them.

 

Promoting voter registration is one issue that has gained urgency since the riots. But there is a deeper problem for minorities: The lack of politicians like them.

 

France has more than 5 million Muslims — the largest community in western Europe — whose forebears came mainly from northern and western Africa. But not a single lawmaker in the National Assembly has African ancestry.

 

French politicians are overwhelmingly white, upper-class and educated at the same elite school, the Ecole National d'Administration.

 

"We have to change mentalities," said Azedine Haffar, president of an association for elected officials from housing projects around the city of Lyon. "Someone named Mohamed and Farida has to be seen as Mr. or Mrs. Everybody in order to get elected. That has never happened."

 

A Paris-area association, Citizenship and Democracy, is planning to plaster neighborhoods with posters that read, "Vote, or you might as well be dead." It also plans to put forward electoral candidates.

 

There are no statistics on voting among France's minorities, as French law bars collecting information based on race.

 

But low turnout during the 2002 election was credited with creating an opening for far-right, anti-immigration politician Jean-Marie Le Pen, who shocked France by making it past the first round to the final run-off.

 

In the initial round, absenteeism among 18- to 24-year-olds was 36 percent, compared to a national average of 28 percent.

 

Horrified voters from the left and right rallied to give incumbent conservative President Jacques Chirac a resounding 82 percent in the final round. Absenteeism among young French people dropped to 20 percent in that round — the same as the national average, according to the CSA polling agency.

 

Many worry about a repeat performance by Le Pen, who says his National Front party was inundated with supportive messages after the rioting.

 

Actor Jamel Debbouze ("Amelie," "She Hate Me") warned about Le Pen's influence during the rally in Clichy-sous-Bois, where rioting was triggered by the accidental electrocution deaths on Oct. 27 of two teenagers who apparently believed police were chasing them.

 

In 2002, "we had Jean-Marie Le Pen and Jacques Chirac," said Debbouze, who is of Moroccan origin. "We didn't have a choice. Today, we still have a choice."

 

"We are French, we are proud, we grew up here, we were born here!" he said to cheers.

 

French clothing designer Mohamed Dia urged the crowd to vote "so we are really integrated in this society that has always rejected us." Rapper Joey Starr, wearing a backward baseball cap as he paced the stage, proclaimed: "To vote is to exist."

 

"The people who are most aware of the problems in the neighborhood are you," Starr said, adding that he had just registered to vote earlier that day.

 

Gamthety shot back, saying he thought it was ridiculous for Starr to be giving civics lessons. The two started shouting, and an exasperated Starr retorted at one point, "Bravo, you win."

 

Still, the message connected with some. Participants were invited to register to vote at City Hall across the street, and a small number did.

 

Sofiane Mokhtari, 18, said his parents had encouraged him to register, but he realized the importance of doing so when he saw his neighborhood wracked by violence.

 

"I prefer to take action than just watch things happen," he said.

 

___

 

Associated Press Writer Claire Levenson in Paris contributed to this report.

[Inhalant]

RIOTS ARE FUCKEN KOOL!!