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H. Lecter

~Paris Riots~

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Sick, Crazy, Wild Rioting in the streets of Parisienne Suburbs every day for the the past week...

 

 

English Article

 

French Article

 

 

Laying in the middle of this 7 day period is the 51st (truely 50th) anniversarie of the first strike of the Algerien War of Independence (from the French)...

 

"La Premiere Matin du Novembre"- is a well remembered occurance and is often used as a symbol of colonial deterioration and a precedent for future revolts of Arabs, particularly in and of European nations..

 

Is this coincidence, or co-ordinance?

 

Were this two kids who died self-sacracficing martyrs who gave their lives in order to give spark to the fire, simply : excuses to kick-off the violence and uprising that has been brewing for a considerable amount of time in the heads of the muslim population of France...?

 

About their deaths,

are the police or EDF (Electricitie De France, the owner of the power sub-station in which they persihed) to blame?..or are the boys at fault for doing something which would make the police persue them?

 

The discontent and static has finally reached a boiling point in France...

 

When will it stop?

What does this signify?

What do you reckon the results to be?

 

Perspectives...

 

 

 

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The hash spot~

 

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----

 

 

As someone who has lived in the region of conflict,

and someone who has heard and even has been on both sides of this conflict ,

I must say that this is something that is really serious and really sad..

The people in the 93 have really declared war in a sense~

This has been spoken about and labeled as "inevitable" for some time now,

and it comes as no suprise..

 

I honestly don't clearly see a complete end to the sentiment which caused this breaking point..

and I don't see a complete end to the violence which is now being used to express it..

I think this problem will grow and grow until serious concessions and/or stern solutions will be made...

Anti-police riots and the threat of violence will be something that the people will have to live with indefinately... A wave like this is not just going to simply retreat back to the ocean once it has broken...

 

I cant help but to draw some comparisons to the civil rights uprisings and riots

of Black -Americans some 40 years ago..

Hopefully all this discontent will amount to something as productive as the US uprisings have..

But honestly, I think most radical Muslims are too narrow-minded and short-sighted for that happen...

This is and will be more of an issue of religion rather than race,

and that as well all know, is signifigantly more volatile...

 

The revolutionary sense of these riots is admirable,

as the Muslims in France have not had equal treatment;

however l'Ile de France is not Algeria and it is not, nor has it ever been Muslim soil..

so the authenticity and credibility of there actions is to be questioned..

They can not justly fight for land, when that land is not theirs..

and They can not violently protest conditions in a place which they chose to flee to for "assylum"....and have all options to leave...

 

Many of the people who are most unhappy are people who refuse to integrate into French society at all..

Actually they are anti-social and full of angst for everything un-Muslim in France..

 

On the side of the Muslims who are sensible and enlightened, "normal" people,

I see this display of discontent as an oppourtunity to take a vocal stand on the issues

which stir such emotions...

I think they should hit the streets, call the Media and contact the government with their requests

for the better treatment of their people..

I think they should proclaim a non-violent offensive and open peoples minds to the productive and fair nature of most of their people..

This would draw a line between the Muslims which will be and are integral parts of France,

and those occupy French soil in their own little nation within a nation and fuel a fire from the ashes of which nothing good can come of... and who in all sensible regaurds, have no business there anyway.

This will draw sympathy and reconciliation,

where as violence and hateful, unjustified , seperatist doctrine will just further divide and polarize the people of France...

 

 

Do they really think that they can gain from performing 1954 style uprisings and take over towns??

Do they really think that they have the right to insite social-instability in France and create a civil war?

Do they really think that they can accomplish equality by force...?

 

 

The only other acceptable solution is the one that Le Pen has had for the past 20 years..

Stop immigration, create zero tolerance on immigrant criminals,fish out all of the illegals hiding out , and give an ultimatum of work-or-leave to the welfare collecting leeches who hang around the banlieues all day and sit on their asses, smoking hookha and talking shit about how bad France is...

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It's unfortunate that some bad apples can spoil the whole bunch.

I have to admit . I don't know much about this particular conflict at all, So I won't dare speak on it.

All I can really say is from what I know of conflict in general is that it will get worse before it gets better and the best thing to do when you are unsure is to proceed with caution. Whenever there is fighting and killing going on and it is not clear who is in the right and who is the oppressor. I would never enter into, nor support any unclear uprisings. I'm all for fighting for what you beleive, but when fighting for what you beleive involves oppression and unjust killing, It's time to stop fighting and start evaluating.

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Tonight it's a blast!

 

 

...tommorow you're homeless.

 

 

...Tonight it's a blaaaasssttt!!!

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because we are a generally comfortable society, even for people living in poverty

 

i wonder if some of these people don't get off their asses because they were put there by racist europeans who don't want to hire muslim immigrants, just as racism in the u.s. has kept some cultures from flourishing

i know there is a 30% unemployment rate in some of those suburbs, and just like violence seen thorughout the middle east, in u.s. inner cities, and in africa, there is a clear link between unemployment and violence

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Originally posted by symbols@Nov 4 2005, 01:18 PM

because we are a generally comfortable society, even for people living in poverty

 

 

that is an absolute true statement, think about it. When in history did a societies poor people ever have an obesity problem except in America?

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Guest KING BLING

Poor people in our country are dumb and ugly - that is why they are poor and often fat, have bad teeth and smoke meth...

 

I say we make all the trailer parks and projects in the US fight <the winner gets the welfare checks of the other> than send the winner to Paris to fight the poor there for the European league title belt...A belt which will be made from gold fronts purchased instead of buying formula for your new born...

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I've been watching and reading about this for a week now on the bbc, which obviusly offers much more insight than biased American media...

 

 

After all the religious civil wars France has had, they take much pride in finally creating a secular state, which is in fact an atheist state. The problem is is that most muslim immigrants have no desire to intergrate into secular atheist French culture because they reject that value system. Thus they can't find jobs or learn french or wear berets and quote satre while eating croissants. And native french, as other euro natives, are totally against the creation of a seperate muslim counterculture in their nation.

 

 

See in America, religious immigrants can integrate easier, as long as you buy into the whole cheetos-ipod-friends re-runs culture, because America is allegedly a religious nation. Love god buhha or allah as long as you shop walmart and drives SUVs. The french no. The main prerquiste to join French culture is to sepak the language and adopt secularism.

 

I'd hate to say this, but I think the only real solution is for alot of these people to leave, even the French born ones, or maybe, just maybe a civil war will erupt, and we know who will win that...otherwise they need to assilmilate...

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John Birch, what you are advocating here is essentially the position of the French fascist, Le Pen. I tend to agree with you though. If they do not wish to assimilate into French culture and French society, let them go somewhere where the culture that they prefer predominates.

 

I agree with the gentleman quoted in the article, the Muslim immigrants deserve to live in dignity---in Algeria.

 

The French thought they were being so noble, so egalitarian, so liberal, when they allowed millions of Muslim Algerians and other North Africans to settle in France.

 

Gosh, I bet they're real happy now.

 

We Americans are going to have our turn in the barrel soon, in the U.S. border states. Exactly the same situation.

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I wouldn't say I'm advocating the postion of le Pen at all...I'm not really advocating a postion at all...

 

What I'm essentially saying is that France and other Euro nations are exteremly homogenous nations. If a group comes in and doesn't assilmilate its eventually gonna come to a head, which I think will happen in Europe soon...

 

 

America is different. Of course theres still alot of wasps that would prefer a blue eyed blond christian protestant America, but America is a heterogeneous culture, and its written into our constitution. We can have jews and muslims and shakers and Indians and Irishman all living togetrher. They may not like each other, but they still have to deal with each other. Thats my point...

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Guest KING BLING

Maybe no one here remembers any of the riots we have had in the US in the past 40 years...isolated hopeless populations tend to boil over when provoked. I like how the french are stereotyped to the point of obsurdity above - maybe you haven't been to them, but we have our own areas like those in France - and your failure to recognize that shows we have naive and culturcentric people here at home as well...

 

 

1964 - New York City 1964 race riot July 18-23

1964 - Rochester 1964 race riot July 24-25

1964 - Jersey City 1964 race riot August 2-4

1964 - Paterson 1964 race riot August 11-13

1964 - Elizabeth 1964 race riot August 11-13

1964 - Chicago (Dixmoor) 1964 race riot August 16-17

1964 - Philadelphia 1964 race riot August 28-30

reference for these 1964 events: [1]

1965 - Watts Riot, (Los Angeles, California, USA)

1966 - Hunter's Point Riot, (San Francisco, California, USA)

1967 - 1967 Newark riots, July 1967, (Newark, New Jersey, USA)

1967 - 1967 Plainfield riots, July 1967, (Plainfield, New Jersey, USA)

1967 - Cambridge, MD Riot 1967, July 1967, (Cambridge, Maryland, USA)

1967 - 12th Street Riot (Detroit, Michigan, USA)

1968 - 1968 Washington, DC riots, April 1968, (Washington, D.C., USA)

1968 - Baltimore Riot 1968, April 1968, (Baltimore, MD, USA)

1968 - 1968 Democratic National Convention riot, (Chicago, Illinois, USA)

1969 - Stonewall Riots, (New York City, New York, USA)

1969 - York Race Riot, (York, Pennsylvania, USA)

1971 - May Day Protests 1971, May 1971, (Washington, D.C., USA)

1971 - Camden Riots, August 1971, (Camden, New Jersey, USA)

1971 - Attica Prison uprising, (Attica, New York)

1975 - Livernois-Fenkell riot (Detroit, Michigan)

1977 - New York City Blackout Riot, July 1977 (New York City, New York, USA)

1979 - White Night gay riots, (San Francisco, California)

1980 - New Mexico State Penitentiary Riot, (Santa Fe, New Mexico)

1980 - Chattanooga Riot of 1980, (Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA)

1980 - Miami Riot 1980, May 1980, (Miami, Florida, USA)

1987 - Tampa Riot 1987, Feb. 1987, (Tampa, Florida, USA)

1989 - Miami Riot 1989, Jan. 1989, (Miami, Florida, USA)

1989 - Tampa Riot 1989, Feb. 1989, (Tampa, Florida, USA)

1991 - 1991 Washington, DC riot, Mt. Pleasant riot, May 1991, (Washington, D.C., USA)

1991 - Crown Heights Riot, Aug. 1991, (Brooklyn, New York, USA)

1992 - L.A. riot/Rodney King riot, (Los Angeles, California)

1996 - St. Petersburg, FL Riot 1996, Oct. 1996, (St. Petersburg, Florida, USA)

1999 - WTO Meeting of 1999, (Seattle, Washington)

1999 - Michigan State University student riot, April 1999, (East Lansing, Michigan)

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This shit is nothing big.

 

In Sydney there were Redfern Riots last year following the death of an aboriginal kid who was being followed by Police and impaled himself on a fence.

 

Earlier this year, The were more Sydney riots in Macquarie Fields following the death of two kids in a stolen car chase.

 

These people are poor and unemployed and pissed off and get provoked and ENJOY being provoked into these riots.

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Originally posted by Dawood+Nov 4 2005, 04:25 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Nov 4 2005, 04:25 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

All I can really say is from what I know of conflict in general is that it will get worse before it gets better

[/b]

 

<!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Nov 4 2005, 04:25 AM

12oz is full of blanket statements

 

 

You dont say?

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Originally posted by KING BLING@Nov 5 2005, 05:23 PM

Maybe no one here remembers any of the riots we have had in the US in the past 40 years...isolated hopeless populations tend to boil over when provoked. I like how the french are stereotyped to the point of obsurdity above - maybe you haven't been to them, but we have our own areas like those in France - and your failure to recognize that shows we have naive and culturcentric people here at home as well...

 

 

1964 - New York City 1964 race riot July 18-23

1964 - Rochester 1964 race riot July 24-25

1964 - Jersey City 1964 race riot August 2-4

1964 - Paterson 1964 race riot August 11-13

1964 - Elizabeth 1964 race riot August 11-13

1964 - Chicago (Dixmoor) 1964 race riot August 16-17

1964 - Philadelphia 1964 race riot August 28-30

reference for these 1964 events: [1]

1965 - Watts Riot, (Los Angeles, California, USA)

1966 - Hunter's Point Riot, (San Francisco, California, USA)

1967 - 1967 Newark riots, July 1967, (Newark, New Jersey, USA)

1967 - 1967 Plainfield riots, July 1967, (Plainfield, New Jersey, USA)

1967 - Cambridge, MD Riot 1967, July 1967, (Cambridge, Maryland, USA)

1967 - 12th Street Riot (Detroit, Michigan, USA)

1968 - 1968 Washington, DC riots, April 1968, (Washington, D.C., USA)

1968 - Baltimore Riot 1968, April 1968, (Baltimore, MD, USA)

1968 - 1968 Democratic National Convention riot, (Chicago, Illinois, USA)

1969 - Stonewall Riots, (New York City, New York, USA)

1969 - York Race Riot, (York, Pennsylvania, USA)

1971 - May Day Protests 1971, May 1971, (Washington, D.C., USA)

1971 - Camden Riots, August 1971, (Camden, New Jersey, USA)

1971 - Attica Prison uprising, (Attica, New York)

1975 - Livernois-Fenkell riot (Detroit, Michigan)

1977 - New York City Blackout Riot, July 1977 (New York City, New York, USA)

1979 - White Night gay riots, (San Francisco, California)

1980 - New Mexico State Penitentiary Riot, (Santa Fe, New Mexico)

1980 - Chattanooga Riot of 1980, (Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA)

1980 - Miami Riot 1980, May 1980, (Miami, Florida, USA)

1987 - Tampa Riot 1987, Feb. 1987, (Tampa, Florida, USA)

1989 - Miami Riot 1989, Jan. 1989, (Miami, Florida, USA)

1989 - Tampa Riot 1989, Feb. 1989, (Tampa, Florida, USA)

1991 - 1991 Washington, DC riot, Mt. Pleasant riot, May 1991, (Washington, D.C., USA)

1991 - Crown Heights Riot, Aug. 1991, (Brooklyn, New York, USA)

1992 - L.A. riot/Rodney King riot, (Los Angeles, California)

1996 - St. Petersburg, FL Riot 1996, Oct. 1996, (St. Petersburg, Florida, USA)

1999 - WTO Meeting of 1999, (Seattle, Washington)

1999 - Michigan State University student riot, April 1999, (East Lansing, Michigan)

 

I'm fucking wasted, and this might be wrong, but most of these rioters, I'm assuming, were brought here by slaveship, whereas Muslims migrated to European nations (which they fought not too long ago) looking for work.

 

They convert their neighbours by the sword. You don't think the whole world knows this? That the whole world realizes that EVERY muslim sympathizes with cowardly terrorists? That's why it was Hindu extremists that killed Ghandi! They knew what was going to happen! Now you've got an ungrateful Pakistan with designs on India.

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Whoo blanket statements galore by paranoid androids...

Let's get some insiders perspectives on this:

 

Thanks to Consortium member Chaos for sending this link to me.

 

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?...051103183650926

 

Saturday, November 05 2005 @ 07:26 PM PST

Here is what is REALLY happening in France!

 

Thursday, November 03 2005 @ 06:36 PM PST

Contributed by: Anonymous

Views: 675

 

We now know that the young people who tragically met their deaths in an electrical substation in Clichy-sous-bois were not, to use the given expression, “well known to the police.� They were quiet young people who had no record of trouble. But the contrary is not true.

 

The next two articles were translated from French to English by the blogger of:

 

http://sketchythoughts.blogspot.com/

 

The Intolerable – about the events in Clichy-Sous-Bois

 

by Laurent Lévy, Wednesday November 1st 2005

 

We now know that the young people who tragically met their deaths in an electrical substation in Clichy-sous-bois were not, to use the given expression, “well known to the police.� They were quiet young people who had no record of trouble. But the contrary is not true.

 

For their part, the young people knew the record of the police. They knew that if they had to go through one of those I.D. checks – as classic and vexing as they are useless – they ran the risk of having to spend a few hours at the police station, dealing with humiliation and contempt while they were there.

And they did not have time for that. They had to go home, because it was soon time to break the fast; they were looking forward to eating.

Why did the Minister of the Interrior make a point of saying that these events took place following an attempted theft? Doubtless, he wanted to play on the fantastic and disastrous idea that people have of the “suburbs,� an idea that he himself helps to spread. That they are lawless places ruled by criminals, threats to public safety, breeding grounds of delinquency.

If some young people die while fleeing the police, you might as well tell the good people that it is because they had done something wrong. Anything will do.

If the story takes place on the edge of a poor neighbourhood in the “inner suburbs� around Paris, it is because we’re dealing with “trash.�

And the Minister knows all about this! You can’t fool him! No doubt, he would use some “karcher� on Clichy in honour of “zero tolerance�. What we may doubt, though, is that we have the same idea of what is “tolerable� and what is not: after all, what is intolerable in a civilized society is not the revolt of those whose children, brothers and friends are hunted down and killed. What is intolerable is the arrogance of the authorities, of irresponsible police, of the State which is waging war against the poor.

Throughout these events the agents of the State have acted as if they were in a civil war.

In an egalitarian society this would have been unthinkable. When the Minister of the Interior sets the example by lying, one sees no reason why his subordinates should not follow suit. So a police officer goes an the radio and says that no tear gas was used against the mosque, that in fact it was the demonstrators who used “pepper spray grenades�, and that this is what stung some peoples’ eyes. Just like his boss knew full well that there had been no theft, this cop was fully aware of what we all learnt later on, namely that they were in fact tear gas grenades from the police that were used.

And so it was that during their prayers, on the Night of Destiny, that the Moslems of Clichy were given a chance to appreciate the efficiency of their country’s police. They have no need to fear for their safety. They got to see how the Flash-Balls work. They got to see the children running scared while their mothers, trying to protect them, were called “whores� and chased down the stairs by the Mr Sarkozy’s soldiers.

Those who did not know are now able to see what “colonial neighbourhood management� means. Tomorrow, it will be clear.

Tomorrow they will be told about the republic, about liberty, equality and fraternity. They will be reminded of how well respected and admired the country that produced the rights of man is all around the world. Tomorrow, the suburbs will be taken care of – and just wait til you see how!

The Minister has already set a date; every week he will visit a “sensitive neighbourhood,� for this is the new name for working class neighbourhoods. He’ll do what’s necessary. There will be units of riot police and special intervention squads. And yet, people were not asking so much: simply to be allowed to live. Of course, this was doubtless asking too much.

 

Laurent Lévy is author of Le spectre du communautarisme (éditions Amsterdam).

 

 

 

=========================

 

 

 

State Violence in Clichy Sous Bois : An Eyewitness Account

Clichy-sous-Bois : lawlessness or injustice?

by Antoine Germa

 

I have been in and out of Clichy since Saturday morning, working with a France-Inter reporter on a series of reports about the situation in Clichy-sous-Bois. The city was “in arms� from the night of Thursday October 27th to the night of Monday October 30th.

 

I am writing what I have seen, heard, understood, and been told.

 

1. Two dead teenagers (Zyad and Bounna, 17 and 15 years old, from college ..3) do seem to have been chased by the police, contrary to the official version which denied that there was any pursuit (the Sarkozy/Parquet version). Why else would they go in that alleyway and climb a wall to hide in a power substation when they lived so close by?

 

2. The ten young people who were playing soccer ran away from the police who were checking people’s i.d. because some of them did not have proper papers (amongst these, the third electrocuted youth, Metin, was in the process of having his case regularized). They were never involved in any theft from the site as the official version claimed, but that did not stop these claims from being repeated by [Prime Minister Dominique] de Villepin on Thursday. Nobody stands by these claims today, as the prosecutor from Bobigny acknowledged Saturday that it was a simple i.d. check. The youths who were arrested were released within an hour, more proof that the police had nothing on them. Metin, suffering from severe burns, “does not remember anything� according to the official version… is this silence connected to his legal status?

 

3. All sorts of rumours began to circulate in the city : Why are the police lying? What are they hiding? People spontaneously began to riot on Thursday, on Friday they were reinforced by the “older ones�. The first targets were: the post office (many cars burnt), the fire station (a fire truck demolished), bus shelters, a school (set on fire). The rioting became particularly violent on Friday (people throwing rocks and firebombs and shooting at police cars) This took place in the big thoroughfares that run through the Chene pointu neighbourhood (close to Pama). Many cars were set on fire, their burnt out shells were still littering the streets Saturday morning.

 

Saturday morning there was a silent march organized by religious associations and the mosques. There were appeals for calm. All eyes were on the justice system and [Minister of Public Security Nicolas] Sarkozy was singled out for criticism. Moslem community institutions, city officials and activists were visibly united, and seemed to have the situation under control. There were slightly more than a thousand participants. Visibly tired and emotional, the Socialist Mayor of Clichy, Claude Dilain, who seems to enjoy real support amongst the population of Clichy (including the youth), made an official request to Sarkozy to open an investigation into the deaths of the two teenagers. Coming out of a meeting at the city hall after the march, the lawyer for the victims’ families announced that he would be filing a complaint in order to expose the circumstances in which they died. The police were nowhere to be seen and all seemed calm that day.

 

Saturday night, as the fast was broken (around 6:30pm), 400 riot police – including some who came from Chalon s/saone – appeared all over the Chene pointu neighbourhood. As usual, they were encircling – “closing off� – the neighbourhood. The police are ridiculous : joggng in step, like Roman legionnaires, shields raised and flash-guns in hand, they went street by street as if fighting invisible enemies.

 

At that time of day everybody is eating and nobody stays outside. So why such a show of force at a time when the streets are unusually quiet? “Provocation� is the answer given by everyone from the area I asked. This is the recurring theme since Friday night.

 

After an hour, some young people go outside and stand in front of the police: everyone expects a confrontation. How does the police strategy make ay sense, except in terms of “marking their territory�, “restoring order� in the most primitive and macho way possible.

 

Several different eyewitness accounts and recordings clearly show that the police wanted to have it out with the youths: calling out racist insults, challenging them to fight, posturing. I went to the Bousquets mosque at 9pm: it was overflowing (roughly 1200-1300 people), as this was the Night of Destiny that is traditionally spent in the mosque. Several cars and garbage cans had already been set alight, and young people were here seeking refuge in this sanctuary in the middle of the neighbourhood. Nevertheless, there was a mood of solemn contemplation, and from the beginning the imams had played an important role in restoring the peace.

 

Despite the police provocations, Saturday night seemed less violent. Was this because of the appeals to calm repeated all day long? Was this due to the importance of the Night of Destiny at this point in Ramadan?

 

4. Sunday night, I receive an outraged and dismayed telephone call from Ibrahim, the son of an imam, at 10:55pm. He tells me that while people were praying the police gassed the de Bousquets mosque. He tells me that some women – who were in the section reserved for them – almost passed out. As they left they were met with insults from the forces of law and order: “whore, bitch…� Attempts to speak to the police proved futile, those who dared to try were ordered to “Move on!� and risked being wounded with a flash-ball. Ibrahim asks me to come to be a witness but I am not in Clichy at the time.

 

This news seems beyond belief. How can they attack a religious gathering? Why gas the mosque when (apart from the mayor) the religious authorities have been the only ones capable of calming things down? Things are now ready to explode; new confrontations break out and more cars are set on fire: positions are becoming more and more radical, especially as the police deny that they used tear gas in the mosque. They say the type of grenade that was used is not the kind issued to police. From this point on there are two issues: the deaths of the teenagers and the attack on the mosque.

 

It is at this point that Sarkozy appears on television defending and justifying the police actions in Clichy, once again calling for « zero tolerance » : one hand the iron fist, the other hand… nothing, except perhaps the invisible hand of the market.

 

5. Monday morning : the mood is tense. At 11am, Sarkozy meets with the security forces at the de Bobigny police station, offering them his congratulations and support. The official version of the gas attack on the mosque has been somewhat modified over night. It turns out the kind of grenade used was indeed the sort issued to police, but there are still some doubts: just who could have thrown the grenades into the mosque? Yet again, the official version is completely disconnected from reality.

 

At 1pm I arrive at Chene Pontu to watch the news on TV with the Imam and his family: the way the media is covering events is another one of the things people have complained about since the “riots� began. People here feel that the media are the representatives of the establishment, that they are spreading lies, and more than anything else that they are helping to stigmatize people who live in these working class neighbourhoods.

 

And yet, one can hear a change: the newspapers and the television channels are voicing some criticisms. They are beginning to question the official version of how the two kids died and the mosque was gassed.

 

At 2pm here is a press conference at the Bousquets mosque. A video of the attack was caught by on a cell phone camera. It is shown to many reporters: it shows the panic as the worshippers were gassed. Then the officials spoke, firmly, with emotion, demanding a judicial inquiry and an official apology. At the heart of these demands is the fact that people of different beliefs should be treated equally. The mosque president, Mr. Brouhout, who is close to the UMP, was strikingly able to calm people down. Bouna’s older brother told journalists that he would not meet with Sarkozy, who he feels is “incompetent�; instead, along with Zyad’s family he demands a meeting with the Prime Minister. There is a consensus that the police must leave the neighbourhood in order for things to calm down.

 

Around this press conference, community activists are highlighting the socio-economic causes behind these events. Clichy is one of the poorest municipalities in France and community groups have less and less money to work with. Things are tense as the press conference draws to a close: young people are sharing their stories, women are explaining what they experienced and saw first hand. A common theme in all these accounts is anger at the police, who are carrying out more and more foolish – and often illegal – “muscular� interventions, and at the authorities in the ministry who are not condemning the gas attack against the mosque. The religious authorities, visibly shaken by what happened the night before, slowly manage to take control of the situation.

 

Everyone is nervously waiting for nightfall. At 7pm representatives of the mosque and the police reach an agreement: some youths are designated mediators in order to “calm� the more hot-headed ones and prevent further confrontations with police. This is not a new idea: indeed, some young people had suggested this Saturday, but the police were not interested then. Is it that they feel they are unable to find a solution? Is this the end of the “hard� approach, which has proven itself so ineffective?

 

11 :30pm : the police are playing cat-and-mouse with some young people, but the situation seems under control. I am told that the mediators are playing a key part on the ground: they go and meet with the younger kids, they talk to them to convince them to not do anything. Later that night I learn that the police station at Montfermeil has been set on fire and that the police had made some arrests. There had been no major confrontations.

 

Antoine Germa , Tuesday November 1st. The author is a history-geography teacher who works in Clichy-sous-Bois.

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I wish our people would riot every time the cops pull this shit here in America. What the pigs are doing in France is the same shit they pull here and we're too lazy and woried about bullshit "property value" to do anything about it.

I swear to God I went outside looking for rioting to join in last year when Bush stole the election again and everything was quiet and everybody was just walking around with their heads down all quiet and disapointed looking, but no all out ANGER and RAGE like it shoulda been :hatred:

 

Americans are fucking SHEEP anymore!

Props to the muslims rioters in France. Maybe they'll actually gain some respect and get somewhere after this all plays out just like the black people in America came a long way after all the Race Riots in the 60's.

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That list forgot the riots in cincinnati a couple of years ago...

People get gully when pushed far enough...

Just a matter of time... though it seems that the system may not be entirely broken yet since we have an indictment of lewis libby. So hopefully riots will not be necessary.

But it would be nice to blow off some steam...

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And as far as these indictments, I'll beleive it when I see them pussy's get locked the fuck up and the system reformed.

 

It just reminds me of how every now and then a cop will actually get arrested and charged for wrongfully murdering someone but in the end they always get let off and even get their job back.

 

I swear I better see some fucking riots if these fuckers get let off the hook. :hatred:

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We'll see... we'll see...

 

they may be able to get over a little bit but they are basically fucked regardless. Already their credibility is ruined, poll numbers are slipping, and they will most likely never hold public office again.

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What's more likely is that the French people will become a great deal less tolerant of Muslim immigrants, and more supportive of rigid borders and deportation. The reason we don't have this exact same problem in the U.S. with our Muslim population is that the Muslims that come here do not settle in big ghetto-like areas where everyone is Muslim. They are dispersed throughout the population, and the impact of those that refuse to assimilate is diluted. Their children quickly learn English and adopt Americanized ways of doing just about everything, with the exception of religion and wearing head scarves when outdoors.

 

However---if the Muslims here in the U.S. started insisting on living in huge all-Muslim areas, separating themselves from regular American culture, and creating a "little Algeria" here in the U.S., you would find American tolerance for their presence drying up.

 

For instance, the most frequent complaints I hear from native-born Americans about Latino immigrants is that the immigrants do not learn English, they create all-Spanish-speaking neighborhoods, and that their culture is garish and loud. Recently in my neighborhood, a Mexican family bought a brick house and promptly painted it a bright, flourescent, lime green. The neighbors freaked out and the Homeowners Association made them re-paint it approximately the same color as the original brick.

I have Mexican neighbors across the street who have a large extended family that gathers every weekend for huge family get-togethers. They park cars all up and down the street for the entire weekend, play ear-splitting Mexican music and their kids run wild all over the neighborhood. This isn't so bad, it's not as though they are harming anyone, but my next-door neighbor complained to me "If I wanted to live in Mexico, I'd MOVE to Mexico," and I feel the same way. I wouldn't move to a Mexican city and play ear-splitting country-and-western music all weekend. The cultural differences are profound.

 

What choices do I have? I can just put up with it, and be increasingly pissed. I can ask them to turn down the volume (I did that, several times. It lasted about half an hour and they turned it right back up again.) I could call the cops (haven't done that yet, it seems petty.) Or, like all the other white families on this block in the last ten years, except us and three others, I can just move, and join the White Flight out of Houston.

When I moved to this neighborhood, in 1979, it was 90% Caucasian. The schools were excellent. My daughter was starting kindergarten. The homes well-maintained and the crime rate was very low. It was so far out on the edge of Houston's west side that it did not have Metro bus service.

 

The first thing that happened was that Metro built a huge Park and Ride center near Highway 6. Immediately, several houses on our block went up for sale. I asked one guy why they were moving and he told me, "I'm getting out while the getting is good, and I advise you to do the same. As soon as they provide bus service out here, the blacks and Mexicans will cover us up." I told him I thought he was being foolish and intolerant, and that if minorities did move here, they were likely to be middle-class, law-abiding people just like us. He just laughed.

 

Every white family that moved out was replaced by a nice, middle-class minority family. My daughter had many classmates that were nice black kids and Latino kids. My wife and I were pleased that she would be going to school in a multi-cultural environment.

 

By the time she was in sixth grade, there were gangs throughout the neighborhood, and we were beginning to see gang tags everywhere, with one gang marking out another gang's tags and threatening each other. Burglaries went up. There was occasional gunfire at night, close by the house. My wife's car was stolen by four gang kids, in broad daylight. My mother drove up just as they were leaving the block, and recognized the car. She thought to herself "I wonder where she's going?" We recovered the car a month later, in pretty bad shape. Among other things, the roof was caved in by somebody jumping on it. When we went to get it, the cops wanted us to open the trunk, because they could smell an odor. They thought it was a body, but it turned out to be a bag of trash from a party, with rotting food and empty beer cans.

 

By the time my daughter went to high-school, whites were outnumbered by blacks and Latinos. By 1997 her high-school only had 15% white students. Her high school counselor told her she could be guranteed entry into Texas state colleges because she was a racial minority. She attended Advanced Placement classes, and graduated in the top 10% of her class. Most of the other kids were either white or Asian. There were almost daily fights and disturbances at her school, almost always involving black or Latino gang kids.

 

Almost all our white neighbors have moved "farther out," farther to the west of Houston. One neighbor told me that whenever her teenaged son sees a white teenaged girl in a car somewhere in the neighborhood, he exclaims "Hey, Mom, look! White girl!" Most white families with daughters have moved. The dance school that my daughter attended for 13 years is now 90% black or Latino. My wife visited to see my daughter's old dance teacher, who was a major influence on her good attitude and good grades in school. "It's just not the same," she said. "The clean-cut attitude is gone."

 

About a month ago, we had a drive-by shooting practically right in front of my house. One carload of kids shot up another carload of kids. My neighbor and my wife armed themselves and had one carload on the ground with their hands behind their heads. It turned out that they were the victims, not the shooters. The shooters were chased by another carload of kids, but they got away. My neighbor was highly pissed. My wife told me "I was scared to death. If one of those kids had done ANYTHING, I would have shot him."

 

I'm sure most of the people on this board cannot understand this. Nearly everybody on here revels in a rebellious, FTW kind of attitude, and cheers every time another brick is pulled from the foundation of Normal Life in the U.S. What you guys don't understand is that when the white folks vote with their feet, the society suffers. This neighborhood is deteriorating more and more every day. Eventually, my wife and I will make the decision to move on, like everybody else we knew when we first moved here. The bull's eye effect will get a little worse, and nobody much gives a shit.

 

Houston is a shitty place anyway. I hate the weather here. It's about time to go. My kid is an adult, fuck it, there's no reason to stay here and put up with it.

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I'm not sure what you're saying the problem is Kabar. You go from welcoming minority, middle class, law abiding families to all of a sudden gangs are running amok in the streets. So what went wrong? Besides your reasoning that people different from you moved in.

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