discussion on the nature of the creator of the heavens and earth

[SF1]

Originally posted by Dawood@Aug 8 2005, 03:58 AM

SF, don't sneak up on me like that, man!

 

God is merciful to ALL his creation, and he doesnt burden a soul more than it can bear. So those Aborhiginee tribes will be tested according to their abilities , just like mentally retarded people and others who didnt receive the message properly.

People will naturally be skeptical, but doesn't he give most of us a long enough life to check it out? check the proof, Cross reference, The words in the Quran have never been changed since it was revealed. Also there are too many scientific miricles in the Quran Unlike many other scriptures whose predictions were disproved, the Quran has too many miricles and things that They were not aware of during the time of Muhammad

 

Also Allah laid down a challenge in the Qur’an to mankind in general and to the Arabs in particular: "And if you are in doubt concerning that which we have sent down to our slave (Muhammad) then produce a chapter like it, and call your supporters and helpers besides Allah, if you are truthful!" (Surah al-Baqarah 2:23)

So to disregard it is to disbeleive and to disbeleive is to be thrown into the hellfire for ever. And When I became a muslim I had a problem with this , because I said "why would God punish someone forever? So the reply was that only God knows that if he allowed them to live forever they would disbeleive in him forever. So which one of the blessings from your lord will you deny?

 

SF the animals will become dust, part of the earth.

Quoted post

 

 

Then why cant MAN be aloud to just become dust and return to the Earth if he aint up to Gods standard? Are we worse than an animal for not understanding Gods mind and what he wants for us? Why must God be the abusive father that tortures his children for not being perfect (or close enough to perfection)?

The scriptures tell us that we are not expected to be perfect, but then if we aren't we are punished to eternity in hell??? What the fuck is that???

Like we are saposed to read gods mind and know that one religion is right and the rest are all blasphamy!?!? When we have people from every religion telling us that theirs is right and the rest are wrong? We're saposed to just be smart enough to know which one is right and if we fuck up and choose the wrong one (and dedicate our life to the wrong faith thinking this is what we have to do to escape hell) then guess what... too bad! we go to hell anyways for beleiving the wrong religion??? What kind of a God is it that would take amusment out of throwing mice into a maze and not only rewarding the ones that make it through, but brutally torturing the ones that made a wrong turn and got lost??? :huh2:

 

Just courious.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by SF1@Aug 8 2005, 05:20 AM

Then why cant MAN be aloud to just become dust and return to the Earth if he aint up to Gods standard? Are we worse than an animal for not understanding Gods mind and what he wants for us? Why must God be the abusive father that tortures his children for not being perfect (or close enough to perfection)?

The scriptures tell us that we are not expected to be perfect, but then if we aren't we are punished to eternity in hell??? What the fuck is that???

Like we are saposed to read gods mind and know that one religion is right and the rest are all blasphamy!?!? When we have people from every religion telling us that theirs is right and the rest are wrong? We're saposed to just be smart enough to know which one is right and if we fuck up and choose the wrong one (and dedicate our life to the wrong faith thinking this is what we have to do to escape hell) then guess what... too bad! we go to hell anyways for beleiving the wrong religion??? What kind of a God is it that would take amusment out of throwing mice into a maze and not only rewarding the ones that make it through, but brutally torturing the ones that made a wrong turn and got lost??? :huh2:

 

Just courious.

Quoted post

 

The reason why we can't just be returned back to dust is because the Animals were not blessed with intellect, they have instinct. We have intellect and instinct and we were preferred over all of the creation with that. Another misconception is that we are supposed to be perfect, we will never be perfect. We make mistakes all the time, but still we return to God for forgiveness for our mistakes to purify us, See heres the deal, Originally all worship was singled out for God and those people who worshipped God alone without worshipping Idols like men, stones, wood carvings, the sun, the moon the trees , whatever, were people who were following the right way. Over time many religions started popping up and it got very confusing. Thats one of the ways of the devil, confusion, he makes it seem as if it is all too much and so we just do whatever we feel like doing because all this God stuff is confusing, thats a smokescreen , bro. In reality, there is a way of life that is accepting to God and it is Islam. People are people and we all do wrong , no Muslim on the face of this earth is perfect , but heres where the wild card comes in...Every religion on the face of this earth teaches to worship an Idol except Islam. Christians worship Jesus,Buddhists worship the little fat statue, hundus worship the Cow, some of them worship rats and that crazy looking elephant with 15 arms. The new wave religions worship the earth. The Jews strip God of his Godlike qualities thus worshipping something that is'nt even God anymore. Only in Islam do you have this perfect God who doesn't need sleep or need to eat , who is merciful to his creation and sends messenger after messenger to teach them the truth, To single out all worship for God the true God , creator of the heavens and universe , who none is similar or comparable to. I personally, don't beleive that God throws people into hell for taking a wrong turn . I think he deliberately misgudes them due to a perversion in their own hearts that they follow. And if they did'nt follow that perversion, If they were sincere and looked deeper into the guidance, then they wouldve been guided. God is not unjust to his servants.

[Krakatau]

Why do I need proof to say he was schizophrenic? Why don't you need proof to say he wasn't?

 

And really, I was just trying to open a more interesting discussion about the role neurological disorders and conditions could have played in forming our world and its religions.

So therefore there must be some sort of guidance for us to know what will bring us closer to the correct way, right?

Wrong. Just because actual divine dialogue is lacking doesn't mean that there is anything else.

 

I made it through 'the quran on iron" and then decided that shit was dumb.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by Krakatau@Aug 8 2005, 05:50 AM

Why do I need proof to say he was schizophrenic? Why don't you need proof to say he wasn't?

 

So therefore there must be some sort of guidance for us to know what will bring us closer to the correct way, right?

Wrong. Just because actual divine dialogue is lacking doesn't mean that there is anything else.

 

I made it through 'the quran on iron" and then decided that shit was dumb.

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Well, If there is no guidance then , there must be no afterlife either. Just dirt. because if there is some sort of afterlife, then there must be a road map on how to get there, It's just logic ...what if you were a courier and your boss told you go to 234 East armpit lane and deliver this package wouldnt you want to know how to get there? and what if your boss told you , Scram, punk, go deliver it and you never were given a map , no map existed, just find it or you don't get paid. Because that's what youre saying....I don't beleive in a God like that.

God is merciful and benevolent.

 

So you didnt do the homework, but you still came to class talking trash.......this time YOU get the F.

 

and as for your schitzo statement, in rules of debate the burden of proof is on the one making the claim.....so bring it chief!

[Krakatau]

Originally posted by Dawood@Aug 8 2005, 12:01 AM

Well, If there is no guidance then , there must be no afterlife either. Just dirt. because if there is some sort of afterlife, then there must be a road map on how to get there, It's just logic ...what if you were a courier and your boss told you go to 234 East armpit lane and deliver this package wouldnt you want to know how to get there? and what if your boss told you , Scram, punk, go deliver it and you never were given a map , no map existed, just find it or you don't get paid. Because that's what youre saying....I don't beleive in a God like that.

God is merciful and benevolent.

 

So you didnt do the homework, but you still came to class talking trash.......this time YOU get the F.

 

and as for your schitzo statement, in rules of debate the burden of proof is on the one making the claim.....so bring it chief!

Quoted post

 

The guidance was intuition, not scrupture. Maybe there isn't an afterlife. I've decided not to read any more of your analogies due to their being irrelevant....so skipping to "I don't beleive in a goat like that"..... I don't see how your belief has any bearing on reality. And the merciful benevolence is an opinion, or hope.

 

Like I said, I looked at the link you dropped, and decided it was bull shit. So I didn't fail, I dropped your shitty class.

 

Alright.... he thinks he's 'The Holy Prophet'. Shit would land him in therapy these days.

[SF1]

Originally posted by Dawood@Aug 8 2005, 05:43 AM

I personally, don't beleive that God throws people into hell for taking a wrong turn . I think he deliberately misgudes them due to a perversion in their own hearts that they follow. And if they did'nt follow that perversion, If they were sincere and looked deeper into the guidance, then they wouldve been guided. God is not unjust to his servants.

Quoted post

 

Then why does he create us with "perversions"???

And why (as you put it) does he "deliberately misguid" us to go to hell (that he created for us) for the perversions in our hearts when he created us with these perversions in our hearts??? And how are we sapose to "look deeper into his guidance" if he's "deliberately misguiding" us???Is it a sick joke??? :huh2:

I don't get it.

[bodice_ripper]

like I said, keep your metaphysical boogieman or men to yourselves and out of law and government, and we can get along just peachy keen thank you.....

[!@#$%]

dawood

 

you mentioned hinduism and buddhism

That Idea that God is everywhere and everything came from greek Philosophy and the orientalists which spilled over into hinduism and Buddhism and recently became popular with these new wave religions that basically lift responsibility off of man from being moral and responsible for his actions because they beleive that when you die you are reincarnated...and you can just "try again"

 

 

hinduism and buddhism preceeded greek philosophy

(Plato was around in 385

Buddha was born around 585 BC

Hinduism began sometime around 1500 BC)

 

 

I don't know what 'new wave religions' you are referring to, but to suggest that these religions lift moral repsonsibility from man is simply RIDICULOUS

 

 

1. Moral responsibility lies in the intent of action regarless of whether or

not there is a permanent soul.

 

2. Some one else will suffer. The goal is to have all sentient beings escape

from suffering. A profound altruism results, action for the sake of others

in a wide-ranging type of compassion for all living creatures including

those yet to be born.

 

3. Philosophical understanding and the popular feelings about karma are at

odds. The "common" folk easily tolerate such philosophical confusion

 

if you are not willing to show proper respect to other belief systems

rather than simply dismissing them with your incorrect assessments and judgements

 

then i'm closing your little madrassa down

[!@#$%]

AND BY THE WAY:

 

DISPATCHERS NEVER GIVE COURIERS DIRECTIONS

 

any courier who creid to his company about not being able to find a delivery destination (armpit lane or otherwise) would get laughed out of the office

 

you seriously need to rethink your analogies if you expect to make an effective argument

[Dawood]

Originally posted by symbols@Aug 8 2005, 01:25 PM

then i'm closing your little madrassa down

Quoted post

[/b]

 

Ooooh, Aren't we all powerful in the thread...closing it down huh? youre vicious symbols

[bodice_ripper]

That Idea that God is everywhere and everything came from greek Philosophy and the orientalists which spilled over into hinduism and Buddhism and recently became popular with these new wave religions that basically lift responsibility off of man from being moral and responsible for his actions because they beleive that when you die you are reincarnated...and you can just "try again"

 

hey, wait a minute. Isn't it "lifting responsibility off of man" to have right and wrong all mapped out for you by a being no one can get a hold of to question?

[Dawood]

Originally posted by SF1+Aug 8 2005, 06:22 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SF1 - Aug 8 2005, 06:22 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Aug 8 2005, 05:43 AM

I personally, don't beleive that God throws people into hell for taking a wrong turn . I think he deliberately misgudes them due to a perversion in their own hearts that they follow.  And if they did'nt follow that perversion, If they were sincere and looked deeper into the guidance, then they wouldve been guided. God is not unjust to his servants.

Quoted post

 

Then why does he create us with "perversions"???

And why (as you put it) does he "deliberately misguid" us to go to hell (that he created for us) for the perversions in our hearts when he created us with these perversions in our hearts??? And how are we sapose to "look deeper into his guidance" if he's "deliberately misguiding" us???Is it a sick joke??? :huh2:

I don't get it.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

We have a choice, And If we choose guidance, we will be guided, If we choose Misguidance, we will be misguided, right? sound logical? Except the fact that God has FULL knowledge beforehand who will choose what, because he is the creator and all knowledgeable. God doesnt misguide anyone who deserves guidance. It is only those people who chose to be misguided in the first place. He created the good and the bad, and the bad is a test for mankind, Just because we fall into the bad , we can't start blaming God for our own actions.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by bodice_ripper@Aug 8 2005, 01:46 PM

That Idea that God is everywhere and everything came from greek Philosophy and the orientalists which spilled over into hinduism and Buddhism and recently became popular with these new wave religions that basically lift responsibility off of man from being moral and responsible for his actions because they beleive that when you die you are reincarnated...and you can just "try again"

 

hey, wait a minute. Isn't it "lifting responsibility off of man" to have right and wrong all mapped out for you by a being no one can get a hold of to question?

Quoted post

 

 

No , because once we know what it right and what is wrong, it is our Responsibility to do right. You want to question God? Seems arrogant to want to question God. Of course if a person needs more to know that what he beleives is right then study. To me A religion that says you can just die and come back as an eagle makes a person think he has no REAL responsibility, because , there is no REAL consequences.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by symbols@Aug 8 2005, 01:25 PM

hinduism and buddhism preceeded greek philosophy

(Plato was around in 385

Buddha was born around 585 BC

Hinduism began sometime around 1500 BC)

 

 

 

Quoted post

 

I understand that Hinduism and Buddhism preceded greek philosophy, It was this idea that God is everything and is a part of everything that I was referring to. This idea came from greek philosophy and spilled over into the existing Hindu and Buhhdist faiths. It even affected some muslims. And this is an idea that Muslims totally reject. One of the islamic scholars mentioned that the beleif that God is everywhere and is everything is possibly one of the worst discriptions that could be given to God ever, because since all of the prophets and messengers taught the people that God was one god and he was unique in all of his attributes, this description of God being everything made God like his creation, but he is far Above being like his creation.

 

And symbols, part of a muslims faith is to dismiss other beleif systems , to reject that God is a peice of crap or a man or a cow or stone or a tree, If you have to shut this thread down because I won't accept that God is a peice of crap or floating around in the sewer somewhere , then so be it, Islam will still be the fastest growing religion with or without your censorship.

[Dawood]

Oh, and symbols, just an obsevation, Why is it that when I mention that hinduism and buddhism were affected by the ideas of Greek philosophy and the idea that God is everywhere, you threaten to Shut down my "madrassa" But when a certain person here calls Muhammad (a messenger of GOD) a schitzophrenic , hey no problemo, So this disrespect thing applies to every beleif system except Islam? how does that work?

[RumPuncher]

Originally posted by Dawood@Aug 7 2005, 10:55 PM

#1 If we dont drink-we die

#2 If we dont eat -we die

#3 If we dont sleep- well I'm not sure what happens after the too tired to think phase but i'm sure it isnt pretty.

#4 If we get sick we do all types of imperfect actions such as Puke,

get diarheaa, etc etc.

#5 We cant see the future

#6 we die

 

God doesnt need drink

God doesnt need food

God doesnt need to sleep

God doesnt get sick

God sees all and hears all

God doesnt die

 

 

we exist. You seem to imply that God is the inverse of us. Therefore.....

 

< playing devil's advocate >

[!@#$%]

dawood

you started a topic supposedly about discussion

then you admit that it is part of your faith to dismiss other belief systems

 

so which is it?

you want to discuss?

or you want to prove you are right?

 

 

if you understood the inception of buddhism and hinduism, you would know that greek philosophy did not influence them very well ..

haha..

 

Buddhism is unique amongst the religions of the world because it does not have any place for God in its soteriology. Indeed most Asian religions (with the possible exception of some extremely devotional forms of Hinduism) are essentially non-theistic, in that God does not occupy the central place that is accorded to him in monotheistic religious traditions.

 

Just as Buddhism rejects the notion of a Supreme God it also rejects the notion of an abstract God-principle operating in the universe. The notion of Brahman (in the neuter) is not discussed at all in the Buddhist texts, and even in India it may well be a post-Buddhist development resulting from the attempt to reconcile the belief in God(s) with the powerful critique of the Buddha. It is therefore the attitude of Buddhism to the notion of a supreme personal God animating the Universe that we must consider.

 

From the Buddhist standpoint the classic theistic statement that "God created man in his (i.e. God's) image" has actually to be reversed. It is man who has created God in his (i.e. man's) image! And as man's own image changes so does that of his God. Thus in the present time with the rise of feminism there is an attempt to change the gender of God from a man to a woman (or perhaps even to a neuter). To liberate himself mankind has to shed his delusions, and one of these is the existence of God.

 

...there is a fundamental incompatibility between the notion of God and basic Buddhist principles. We have already mentioned that God cannot be reconciled with the Buddhist notion of causality, which is contained in the theory of "dependent origination" which is one of the discoveries of the Buddha during his enlightenment. Certainly nothing like this theory has been propounded prior to the Buddha.

 

 

 

LEARN!!!

 

 

as far as the madrassa comment, your rhetoric knows no bounds

whether it be in this thread or another

no one here is spouting off quotes from their prophets, except you

 

and yeah, i think it's ok for people to make general comments against religions or their prophets

 

but when you start putting down opinion, you should have the facts right about other religions

i made the comment about respect

because you are simply definiing these religions as you wish

for someone who claims to be devout, maybe you should learn more about these other religions before you start drawing them into your argument

 

 

as far as my own opinion,

religion is a load of crap

i think it's pretty damn funny that these suicide bombers think they get to go to heaven

let's not forget that 'jihad' is one of the little talked about central tenets of islam

i wish i knew the reaction of those in the struggle when they find out there is no allah

 

*playing devil's right hand woman*

[bodice_ripper]

Originally posted by Dawood@Aug 8 2005, 01:58 PM

 

No , because once we know what it right and what is wrong, it is our Responsibility to do right. You want to question God? Seems arrogant to want to question God. Of course if a person needs more to know that what he beleives is right then study. To me A religion that says you can just die and come back as an eagle makes a person think he has no REAL responsibility, because , there is no REAL consequences.

Quoted post

 

 

No, questioning god is only arrogant if he exists, which I don't happen to believe is the case, at least not in the threatening, patriarchal overseer sense. I think its arrogant to believe that any human being has the faintest chance of understanding what's going on in the Universe. Its my responisbilty as a sentient being to make decisions about how to behave, based on my experience. I totally respect if others would prefer to just rely on the Ethics For Dummies holy book approach, groovy. But there ain't nothing but argument by assertion in this thread.....You can't prove it, I can't prove it, why argue about it?

[Salafi_Zahrah]

Originally posted by RumPuncher+Aug 8 2005, 11:35 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RumPuncher - Aug 8 2005, 11:35 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Aug 7 2005, 10:55 PM

#1 If we dont drink-we die

#2 If we dont eat -we die

#3 If we dont sleep- well I'm not sure what happens after the too tired to think phase but i'm sure it isnt pretty.

#4 If we get sick we do all types of imperfect actions such as Puke,

get diarheaa, etc etc.

#5 We cant see the future

#6 we die

 

God doesnt need drink

God doesnt need food

God doesnt need to sleep

God doesnt get sick

God sees all and hears all

God doesnt die

 

 

we exist. You seem to imply that God is the inverse of us. Therefore.....

 

< playing devil's advocate >

Quoted post

[/b]

 

It seems the me he is saying that Allah (God) hears everything, sees everything, is all powerful and all knowing.

 

Therefore, Allah (God) has no need to put himself in a human being to know the suffering of a human being.

 

Oh, ahkee Dawood do not referr the Qur'an as Holy this a bid'ah. I just remembered hearing that on a Dawood Adeeb lecture. Allah is the only Holy.

[casekonly]

Originally posted by Dawood+Aug 7 2005, 10:14 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Aug 7 2005, 10:14 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-casekonly@Aug 8 2005, 12:33 AM

to me, god is all that we see and hear. anything and everything is a piece of god. being closer to who we are is being closer to 'it'.

 

 

 

Quoted post

 

I have spent a LOT of time contemplating and studying the nature of God and In my humble opinion there is a flaw in that "God is everything theory" I used to beleive that too, But then look at a peice of doo-doo floating and a toilet and say to yourself "is this God'?

God , the creator is faaaaaaaar removed from All imperfections in my view. He is The most high. The one who is in need of nothing.

 

That Idea that God is everywhere and everything came from greek Philosophy and the orientalists which spilled over into hinduism and Buddhism and recently became popular with these new wave religions that basically lift responsibility off of man from being moral and responsible for his actions because they beleive that when you die you are reincarnated...and you can just "try again"

 

Of course We can keep discussing this...I can talk about this for years.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

 

i agree with mammero about this. the conditioning has made you think that fecal matter is utterly disgusting, but it helps us (as well as other physical matter on this planet) grow. is that not the nature of god?

 

i would like to discuss this whole 'flock' phenomenon a little more as the page grows.

 

also: how evolution can tie in with religion. science, mathematics, and religion are very closely related in my humble opinion.

 

ok, i've got more on this thread to read. just replied after reading your post and mammero's.

[casekonly]

How is it possible that a being with such sensitive jewels as the eyes, such enchanted musical instruments as the ears, and such fabulous arabesque of nerves as the brain can experience itself anything less than a god. -alan watts

[RumPuncher]

Originally posted by casekonly@Aug 8 2005, 01:06 PM

also: how evolution can tie in with religion. science, mathematics, and religion are very closely related in my humble opinion.

 

I believe that science reveals the language of life and of creation.

We can never truly understand the infinate, but we can learn pieces

of important knoledge by digging deeper into science.

 

as for the dog poop;

We see dogs as lesser creatures and poop simply as waste matter.

To a fruit fly, dog poop is valued like humans value bars of gold.

Everything has it's place.

[Guest imported_El Mamerro]

Originally posted by Dawood@Aug 7 2005, 09:55 PM

Ok lets talk about imperfection...since we can't use a peice of crap as an example, let's go a little further up the food chain and talk about humans.

 

#1 If we dont drink-we die

#2 If we dont eat -we die

#3 If we dont sleep- well I'm not sure what happens after the too tired to think phase but i'm sure it isnt pretty.

#4 If we get sick we do all types of imperfect actions such as Puke,

get diarheaa, etc etc.

#5 We cant see the future

#6 we die

 

God doesnt need drink

God doesnt need food

God doesnt need to sleep

God doesnt get sick

God sees all and hears all

God doesnt die

 

Quoted post

 

Well, this discussion has moved ahead and I can see you're knee deep in it, but just to get back to this point... how is any of what you described imperfect? You seem to have a very narrow idea of what "perfect" is without having a proper context in which to evaluate it.

[RumPuncher]

^ as a side point.. is the cycle of life not a perfect creation of the devine,

and thus making our human weakness and death a necessary part of that perfect cycle?

[ERIZENO]

Damn Dawood,

you are trying to sell your views to the rest of us by tricking us into a so called discussion. Sounds like you either need others to agree with you to feel you dont need to doubt, or are so arrogant about your views being correct you need to tell others their views are wrong. You do seem to have done your homework on some lines of thought.

 

 

the one view I want to shove down your throat is: ALL views of God and ALL religions are just means to an end. As long as you reach that end why judge others for taking a diffrent path to the same place. (to me that place is being a good person in all ways.)

[casekonly]

Originally posted by ERIZENO@Aug 8 2005, 02:23 PM

the one view I want to shove down your throat is: ALL views of God and ALL religions are just means to an end. As long as you reach that end why judge others for taking a diffrent path to the same place. (to me that place is being a good person in all ways.)

Quoted post

^^

that is an excellent point.

 

 

i think that people like to talk about religion to reinforce their own views sometimes.

 

however, good can come from this. by flexing our religious muscles (brains), we can build on our ideas of god, religion, divinity, etc. some are slower than others, but we all get to the same place eventually....it's called 'death'. just like waiting in line for a movie...eventually you get in and see the movie. maybe it sucks, maybe it's better than star wars. who knows?

 

 

rum puncher: i'm not sure if i agree with you on the circle of life (lion king <cough>) point you made. i don't know if the circle is the perfection or the life that holds the circle together is the perfection. perhaps both?

[RumPuncher]

I like to think that the circle of life, when free from human intervention

is exactly the way a creator would have planned it. If there's been

changes to the way that cycles works (evolution) it's because the cycle was

designed to be reactive and self preserving. That's how I see it.

 

Maybe it's my suppressed inner-hippy talking, but I like to think

that nature knows whats best. Look at the way the forrests have

learned to react to lighting bolts. They burn down and grow back

bigger than before. If that's not a sure sign of some grand plan,

than I dont know what is. I'm leaning more towards a 'great spirit'

kind of deity over one that ghost wrote books.

 

ps. ALL books were written by humans. They might have been inspired by the devine,

what would the devine need a pen and paper for? The lessons are already right here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh casek....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ERIZENO]

Originally posted by casekonly@Aug 8 2005, 06:54 PM

 

 

i think that people like to talk about religion to reinforce their own views sometimes.

 

however, good can come from this. by flexing our religious muscles (brains), we can build on our ideas of god, religion, divinity, etc. some are slower than others, but we all get to the same place eventually....it's called 'death'. just like waiting in line for a movie...eventually you get in and see the movie. maybe it sucks, maybe it's better than star wars. who knows?

 

 

 

Guilty: I have recently taken note of myself doing that, But a good discussion on this subject as well being very open minded can cause you to learn a lot. Even if its just as simple as how another person reacts to a situation you run into and can now handle diffrently.

[villain]

Woo this thread has been popping off. I can see why, God, religion, and Dawood attacking peoples beliefs under the veil of objectivity.

 

Personally, I believe in god. I don't believe in religion though. Especially any religion trying to hold a monopoly on God. For example, Salafiyyah, Wahhabiyyah, Hanbalites AND Qutbists versions of Islam. These are all the most extremely conservative forms of Islam. The three former most directly influencing Usama Bin Laden and Al Queda, coming from Saudi Arabia, and the latter most directly influencing Ayman al Zawahiri and Islamic Jihad from Egypt. Intolerance of other religions being a major tenet of these forms of Islam. Even though the Hadith shows how the Prophet Mohammad recognized that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worshiped the same God and he made peace treaties with them and even made peace treaties with Pagans.

 

My own tolerance will not be made into a platform for the intolerance of others.

If God was an absolute, objective concept, then religion would be a science, and not, well,.... a religion.

That aside I would like to see a TRUE open discussion on God.

[Guest imported_El Mamerro]

Originally posted by RumPuncher@Aug 8 2005, 02:10 PM

I like to think that the circle of life, when free from human intervention

is exactly the way a creator would have planned it.

Quoted post

 

Why does human intervention fall outside of this? I am always a bit confused when I hear people making a distinction between "manmade" things and "natural" things, as if the product of human effort didn't come from nature. The way we think, move, act, and behave is confined and directed by laws of nature, so why does our intervention fall outside of the "natural"? For example, the genetic engineering we're developing could very well be nature's next step after evolution... a species that can actively modify itself. I don't see human intervention as unnatural at all. Are anthills "antmade", not "natural"?