S@T@N Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I saw it tonight. It KICKED MY FUCKING ASS. If you took the graphics from the second one and added in the plot quality from the first one, you'd have a slight idea of how good this movie is. The ending, for any who can intelligently interpret its meaning, is the best ending they could possibly come up with. It somehow balances closure for main concepts while leaving doors open for whatever you'd like to imagine happening later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_gooch Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 i am gonna try to see it this weekend. i have faith that i will be as impressed as i was after the first matrix. sick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLICKCLACKONER Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by El Mamerro Copping it today at 6. are you gonna be owning a bootleg or something?:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Ok, so here's a more in depth review than my last post. First of all, this movie will get hated on even worse than Reloaded. Those that found Reloaded awful will find this one atrocious, those that found Reloaded OK will find this one awful, those that found Reloaded really fucking awesome will find this one still really fucking awesome. I know there's a lot of people who were forgiving Reloaded for being less-than-stellar because they thought this one would redeem it, and I'm afraid that won't be the case. But with that said, I found this movie to be really fucking awesome. Again, the visuals just simply fucked me in the ass with a rubber mallet broken in half. Never, NEVER EVER have things like this been put on screen. Not even close. Reloaded still has some fucking intense stuff, but the scale of things on this one is way, WAY too fucking large to even comprehend. While watching the final fight scene, my hairs stood on end in exactly the same way they stood when I watched "Akira" for the first time. I remember watching that movie and thinking "Dude, the scale and energy of this thing is so fucking large, it is impossible to capture that in a live action movie". Not anymore. The Wachowskis achieved what they had longed for the most... they made their film look exactly like an anime. Same thing with the battle in Zion. Some really brutal shit, flawless effects, there is simply no seam whatsoever between what is real and what isn't, which was visible in Reloaded still. Just like all the other three, every shot is so beautifully composed and planned, any given frame could be a poster. It's insane. That said, it did leave me slightly thristy. Although it is true what S@T@N said, the ending is probably the best ending they could have, I feel like it wasn't given enough effort. The resolution is only like 5-10 minutes long, and I felt that for a story that lasts 6+ hours, it should have gotten more airtime than it did. But honestly, it doesn't really leave things any different than when it all started. Spoiler: <span style='color:888888'>It seems like Neo and the guys went through all that trouble just to save a select group of people who wanted out of the Matrix. I mean, I figured that the end would be a kind of truce between man and machine, but leaving it at "The ones who want out will be set free" was unsatisfying. I mean, what, they're gonna tell every single peron in the Matrix the truth and let them decide? Or just the ones that were already suspicious? It really needed some sort of epilogue... I think it would have been SICK to show shots of Agents alongside humans from Zion ringing doors and walking up to people and doing the whole red pill/blue pill schtick. I actually expected the truce to involve working together to find an alternative energy source or clearing the skies or something. Maybe that's what will happen but there's no indication. I do think the the scene of the Matrix restarting, with the black cat doing a deja vu, was fucking ill beyond words.</span> It's all pretty open ended, and it still leaves me with desire to know what happens next. I kinda wanted the Wachowskis to be pretty final with it. Again, just like Reloaded, this movie can't stand on its own. The only one that can is the first one, because it was made to be that way. Most people have gotten really pissed off that the sequels ruined a classic original, but didn't you ask yourself at the end of that one, what would happen if this story continued? I can't imagine anything better than what was created aftewards. It's all really a very logical evolution of the story. They keep saying "The should have left the first one alone", that's fucking bullshit. When you have dreams of making a vision reality, like the Wachowskis had, and you get an opportunity to do it, are you gonna go "Oh no, maybe I won't, because people liked the first one so much we might fuck it up and people might think we're dicks". Fuck no. These guys wanted in the whole thing from the start, took a gamble on the first one, which could have failed and ruined their dream, but it paid off immensely, so they decided to balls out. Major fucking props to that. So what if the rest of the movies don't have the philosophical strength of the first one. The first one has enough mindfuckery for the entire trilogy. People enjoyed the what-if factor so much on the first one, they disliked being shown the what-is. And it's understandable, cause the possibilities opened in the first movie allow for each person's imagination to run free. This was the Wachowskis' baby, and they decided to put what their particular imaginations thought out. If you don't like the what-is the Wachowskis chose for their own story, fine, watch the first one repeatedly and imagine the sequels didn't happen. The first movie isn't ruined by any means. I can't FUCKING WAIT to do a trilogy marathon of this story, cause the whole thing together is just so fucking amazing I want to shit myself. The surprise and freshness of the first, the developing of a complex new world in the second, and the absolute, undescribable visual majesty of the third. It should be quite a fucking trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Rage- Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by El Mamerro any given frame could be a poster. It's insane. So true. And yes, the re:cat was super fucking cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest im not witty Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 i too was left wanting more, nothing was even mentioned about all the hub bub over the other zions and 'the ones' from reloaded. no resolution there. i almost wish that reloaded and revolutions had been released as one movie because it was hard for me to get into revolutions simply because it just jumps right in at the nanosecond reloaded left off, and i had to work hard to get back into matrix mode. however it was the subtle things that made this movie good to me. trinity going over the turnstyle was butter, neos fist in the rain and the swarms of sentinels were all very badassical. *oh and one more thing.. those mechsuit robot jawns, shouldnt they have some sort of cockpit on those things? seems ridiculous to have the pilot just exposed in the front like that. meh, they still kicked my ass in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Rage- Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 I have a feeling that Relaoded will be the bastard child of the trilogy. For me if I ever get the trilogy on DVD I might end up skipping Reloaded and just watch the first and third. Hell I've only seen Reloaded the one time before it came out into theaters. I haven't had an urge to buy it let alone rent it. Is this a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHorton Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I thought about it at first, maybe 10-15 minutes out of the theatre, and I still felt wanting... a few of my friends asked me what I thought and I told them I'd have to think about it for a little while first. Well after thinking about it, I love the ending now... its perfect in the sense of symbolism, and it just makes sense logically... a good resolution to the "problem" Rage I think its because in most cases, the beginning and end to a story are what interest people the most (there are people who read the last page of a book first after all..) - to some people Reloaded might just get in the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Rage- Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by JohnnyHorton to some people Reloaded might just get in the way I think that's how I see it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLICKCLACKONER Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by im not witty have some sort of cockpit on those things? seems ridiculous to have the pilot just exposed in the front like that. meh, they still kicked my ass in the face. This is exactly what my gf and I were talkin' bout after the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I trust the mamerrian to the fullest, so i guess revolutions will make the impression to me: good, but not enough. I totally digged the first one and i totally disagree with you on that part: They keep saying "The should have left the first one alone", that's fucking bullshit. When you have dreams of making a vision reality, like the Wachowskis had, and you get an opportunity to do it, are you gonna go "Oh no, maybe I won't, because people liked the first one so much we might fuck it up and people might think we're dicks". Fuck no. As i understand stuff, creators need to move on in order to bring new amazing shit to the table...repeating yourself is always weak and has no risks...to me reloaded, and possibly revolutions bring nothing more than better graphics...i'm sure that every movie the Wachowski's would make would have high-end/first time seen graphics. I dont wanna sound like a hater but i really wanted to see more exciting stuff from these guys...a parallelism and i'm out: The guy that did 'seven' also did 'fight club'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 can anyone else tell the difference between what is real and what is CGI or whatever? i have no problem discerning [some] computer effects from what is real..it hurt "reloaded" a lot for me because it kind of went to looking like a video game whenever the major effects started (like in the fight scene where neo fights a gazillion agents) ..i dunno if it's just me or what (i have excellent eyesight, it's better than 20/20, i can bug people out[usually those who wear glasses] with how far i can read signs and see details) but anyway, when movies go all effected out like that, and i can SEE that those aren't even the actors anymore, it's some computer shit, the suspension of disbelief thing is completely ruined... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemekill Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by -Rage- Hell I've only seen Reloaded the one time before it came out into theaters. I haven't had an urge to buy it let alone rent it. Is this a bad thing? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoink Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Fuck, I so cant wait to go see this...Im included in revolutions was fucking awesome so im sure this one will blow me away as well, shit...I cant wait. This whole reading about the ending thing is making me too damn antsy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by !@#$% can anyone else tell the difference between what is real and what is CGI or whatever? In short... No but yes. I haven't seen the movie yet but I do feel qualified to speak on this topic. The first point that I need to make is that what makes CG 'good' is exactly the same thing that makes editing good. It needs to be invisible. A bad cut draws your attention to the cut and away from the dramatic form of the film. CG works the same way. You can see a giant robot in front of an artificial background, but the same laws of physics must apply. These laws are things like inertia, speed and lighting. In 'The Scorpion King' you can see a really bad integration of CG charaters. They run across the sand but their actual speed is way faster than their legs are moving. That is bad CG and therfore apparent to the eye. Sure we know giant robots are not real, but if they can act like real objects on screen then we can believe them. Somone brought up 'suspension of disbelief'. This plays a big part in being able to 'see' CG effects. A huge dinosaur in Jurrasic Park is clearly CG because we know it's not real, but a person falling off a builing (in sync with the laws of gravity) might not be as easy to spot. We all know that people dont really fall off buildings to make a movie without an air bag or a wire to keep them from dying, but we choose to believe that the stunt is 'real' for the sake of the film. That desire to believe the film makes good CG appear 'invisible'. Even if we know it's not real, we like to pretend it is. Lastly is the nauture of CG itself. For people who pay close attention to the technology of digital image making and its application in modern cinema, we know the boundries of what is possible. It seems like this flick has pushed what we thought was possible enough that even mamerro got his ass blown off. If that happens, then there's probably no way for the 'untrained eye' to tell the difference between what was shot on film and what was composited digitally. [/rant] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Tesseract, I definitely agree that directors need to move and reinvent themselves to bring on more amazing stuff, but since this was one whole story right from the start, I see no need to make each episode substantially new from the last. People keep seeing this as three separate movies, and as long as they keep seeing it this way, then yes, it'll seem like they're repeating. "The slo-mo fighting effect got old already". Why do people want to see three completely different styles in one story? Of course the style is going to remain the same. Of course the same kinds of shots will be composed. Same lighting, same color, same emotionless faces. Still, each of these movies has major visual breakthroughs and differences from the previous; bullet time with the first one, virtual cinematography with the second, and I don't know what I'd call the last one, but it can be summed up with "Holy shit these guys are punching each other way too fucking hard for comprehension". But anyways, people expect each of these to innovate the same way the first one did, and that just won't happen. Instead of seeing it as "The first movie innovated, the other two repeated", I see it as "This entire story innovated, period." I honestly don't know what the hell these guys will do afterward. I'm afraid they won't follow Fincher's footsteps in making continually ill movies, and instead go the way of Roland Emmerich, who innovated with "Independence Day" and then sucked ass with "Godzilla". I don't even think these guys will ever have the passion for another project that they had for this. !@#$%, I also have excellent vision, I was 40/20 when I was 12, probably close to 20/20 now after years of computer use. I've always, ALWAYS had an issue with computer-generated effects, and the ones in Reloaded were no difference. I am perfectly certain that in a few years computer effects will be completely indistinguishable from the real thing, but they're not there yet... deep down inside I wish they'd held back Reloaded until it was mastered. However they kinda set themselves up nicely for the lashback at how fake they look... they look like computer characters because they ARE computer characters!! Haha, I know that's a copout, but it's true. I have seen some movies where the CGI is almost completely flawless, like instances of Gollum in The Two Towers, the crazy vampires in Blade 2, Mr. Hyde in LXG. I still don't understand yet why I find a sub-par puppet more believable than a near-perfect CGI. I think that after years of growing up an impressionable child watching puppet monsters and miniatures, I came to believe that was the way monsters and machines looked and moved, so when I see a CGI move much faster, smoother, and really, there's no way around it, more realistically, it seems out of place. Also, real objects impart direct physical effects on the scene environment and vice versa, something that is stunningly difficult to artificialize. It's not just how a monster looks and moves, it's how the light hits and reflects off it the same way it does on real objects, it's how much the ground shakes when it stomps down, etc. Creating artificial mass that sits in real space is much harder than creating artificial volume that sits in real space. I digress. Like I said before, be very much aware that this movie could terribly disappoint you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Whoa, in the time I wrote that Kilo said some good stuff about CG. In regards to the CG in this particular film, the Smith vs. Neo fight is at such an unimaginable scale that it doesn't even matter. In the Burly Brawl in Reloaded, it was still dealing with familiar figures and sizes, in this one we're basically dealing with two gods fighting in the skies. Whereas in the first I was actually looking out to spot the fake characters (and it was awfully easy to do so), in this one I couldn't care less. There's a particular effect their hits create that is too fucking awesome beyond words, and while I know it was CG, I can't even imagine the processing power and effort needed to create it. The Zion fight, it is easy to tell what's CG, mainly because we know there's absolutely no way besides CG to do what they did. But I thought the integration was pretty damn sick... although we know the mechs are CG, the people inside them look completely real, which makes the mech look much realer too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Mams....i had the enormous benefit of being let down by the Star Wars franchise before the whole matrix trilogy started, so i was well prepared for two movies that were indulgences of the creators (as start wars sadly seemed to become) ...and you know, i'm with you 100% on the puppet/cgi thing. i think it's all Yoda's fault. i mean, i really believed in Yoda when i was a baby.. now i see neo battling a bunch of agents, and one moment, i can CLEARLY discern that it is not Reeves, it's a computer.. interesting point though, about how that feeds into the storyline. i'll prolly see it eventualy, i waited on reloaded, it was decent and lived up to my [considerably low] expectations Holla for 40/20 vision! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by !@#$% i think it's all Yoda's fault. i mean, i really believed in Yoda when i was a baby.. Speaking of Yoda, you wanna know a crazy little fun fact about the Star Wars movies? The Yoda puppet in the first Star Wars was so ghetto that whenever it moved or spoke, the tips of the ears would wiggle from the vibration. Watch the last movie and look at Yoda closely... they actually make his ears wiggle on purpose, so that it'd feel like the old Yoda!! It's a pretty clever, though slightly uneffective, touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemekill Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by im not witty *oh and one more thing.. those mechsuit robot jawns, shouldnt they have some sort of cockpit on those things? seems ridiculous to have the pilot just exposed in the front like that. Originally posted by El Mamerro although we know the mechs are CG, the people inside them look completely real, which makes the mech look much realer too. I think what Mam said is the reason there's no cockpit, being able to see the people draws focus to the realism of the people and off of the CGI'ness of the mechs. *oh i cant wait* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Also, if you've seen the Animatrix, in the Second Reinassance Pt. 2 there's some precursors to those mechs, but with cockpits. A bunch of sentinels hold one down while another laser cuts through the front of the cockpit, and the guy inside gets his shit ruined badly. It's probably a better idea to make it easy to escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemekill Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 ^^^ That's true...that guy got fucked up. The Animatrix is fuckin great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 www.themeatrix.com interesting and relative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemekill Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by Kilo7- www.themeatrix.com interesting and relative This site isn't working for me...it just says "concept and animation by..." and that's it, nothing to click. .oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S@T@N Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 *****SPOILER***** Originally posted by El Mamerro Also, if you've seen the Animatrix, in the Second Reinassance Pt. 2 there's some precursors to those mechs, but with cockpits. A bunch of sentinels hold one down while another laser cuts through the front of the cockpit, and the guy inside gets his shit ruined badly. It's probably a better idea to make it easy to escape. SPOILER SHIT. Don't read this until you've seen the movie!!!!!! The Quote: Yeah, like at the end, when Kid has to get in to Captain Mufolo's suit. Mams, I think you got one part wrong about the matrix. All of the people in the Matrix had been taken over by Agent Smith. However, the Architect's dialogue with the Oracle goes like this: O: What will happen to the humans left in the Matrix? A: They will all be freed, of course. O: I have your word? A: Yes. What am I, Human? So yeah... all the peeps from the Matrix get freed, plus the non-military people in Zion.... which makes for a pretty good chance of survival after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Well, here's the thing... first off, nowhere was it mentioned that Agent Smith had taken over every single person in the Matrix, only that "it had grown out of control". Granted, there was an assload of Smiths at the end, but I don't know if that was EVERYONE. That's another thing I would have liked to see... all the people transformed back into themselves after Smith gets destroyed and the Matrix gets restarted, but we only see the Oracle. Second, I'm pretty sure the Oracle asked "What happens to the humans who want out of the Matrix?" before the Architect said they would be freed. I could be perfectly wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure. I'll definitely watch this film again this weekend, so I'll let you know. Besides, if they free every single human being at once, what will the machines use as an energy source? There's gotta be some progression. Although in Reloaded the Architect said they were prepared in case every single person died... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S@T@N Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Yeah, I'm gonna see it again too... just without the unintelligent boob I saw it with the first time. He was of the "THAT'S IT? THAT'S THE END?" crowd. Not cool. And yes... the architect said they had a means of survival. I'm willing to bet, though, that the machines would just go into dormancy until the sun finally broke through again... at which point they would be gods. I love playing the 'what if' game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelCitizen Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Careful, spoiler-friendly The special effects were beyond fucking belief. I was seriously floored. But I mostly enjoyed the movie as eye-candy, which didnt amount to as much entertainment as I'd hoped for. The storyline had my eyes rolling like a valley girl; and the characters were flatter than gwen stefani. Am I the only one who didn't give two shits whether or not virtually anyone in the movie lived or died? When trinity kicked the bucket I was counting sheep. I didn't even feel much emotional investment in morpheus or neo, and I was hella rooting for both in the first (and even second) one. And some of the dialogue was so god-awfully cliche I almost wondered if there was an underlying element of epic-saga-movie parody within the matrix's programming code. I know the characters were intended to have a formal, precise style of speech, but some of the lines were just laugh-out-loud funny. There were some kick-ass moments though. I thought the zion battle with the machines was fucking butter. When they came flooding out of the roof and the big ed-209/ripley's-yellow-robot-suit-from-aliens-looking things were shooting up at them it all felt really intense. That whole sequence was worth the ticket price. It was a good time, but still, I personally think they could have made both sequels phenomenally better by putting more thought into the story itself and less into how the story could serve the special effects. *Kill Bill has my vote for illest shit of 2003 thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunm Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 ^^^ Yeah, the mech battle with the sentinals wasill. the ending felt like some dud who put off a 14 page term paper for the past three months and decided to write that shit the night before it was due.......it was a decent enough movie but mainly eye candy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpyD Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 SPOILER MAYBE? Correct me if i'm stupid, but how did Niobe do all this stuff in 3, when i thought she died in 2 when they were attacking that building????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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