avils Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Smart I think some of the biggest things Kabar has going for him in this debate is that he has a better knowledge of the facts and his ability to spell correctly lends an air of authenticity to his words... -=-= Originally posted by smart the civil rights movement? NOTHING! the war in vietnam? NOTHING! well, genius.. you should have put "?" marks after the above two "NOTHING !" statements.. i.e "the civil rights movement? NOTHING ??" hahah from those two sentences it sounds like you're on jah's side. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by avils well, genius.. you should have put "?" marks after the above two "NOTHING !" statements.. i.e "the civil rights movement? NOTHING ??" hahah from those two sentences it sounds like you're on jah's side. :rolleyes: Oh jokes... I get jokes... I meant for it to sound like that, genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avils Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Smart I meant for it to sound like that, genius oh yeah !!!!!! well so did I !!!!!! ummm.. hello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jah Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 smart. i dont like typing. i dont like writing long stories. if i dont spell some words correctly that could be because ive been out of school and just travelling and partying for the last year, or because i made a mistake, or typo, or i just may not know how to spell the word. either way, spelling is not the point. if i wanted to take the time to use correct grammar i could but thats not going to happen. about your phillipines statements... i was hesitant to write that because i didnt know much about that situation but i just said fuck it and wrote what i thought based on what little i knew about the history of hte phillipines. am i blaming the world? sure, why not. the whole worlds fucked up. not just the united states. but the main argument here is the united states roll in whats going on. the main argument here is that the united states is some innocent, heroic country who wants to solve all the worlds problems and they dont do anything to deserve an attack vs the united states is fuckin up mad shit and they deserve whats coming to them. you know what? im sure kabar knows tons of shit i dont know. how could he not when hes 3 times (?) my age? but he seems to have some "naive" ideas about his country and maybe hes a little confused with patriotism. as he stated (im not going to find the exact quote but....) "ill ive how i want to live cus im an american." that is the exact point im trying to stress. thats how americans think. they dont even pay attention to what the government is doing. they see what they see onthe news and thats what they think is going on. or maybe they get their info from bush's relatives themselves (he is from texas). who knows. all i know is that the US is fuckin up tons of shit around hte world. i didnt hear one argument against the fact that we're producing 40 % of hte co2 in the world. i got that info from national geographic and i think theyre telling the truth. i didnt hear any argument about the fact that thousands of pacific island countries are going to be GONE within decades, some within years. those facts were put aside completely and i just kept hearing about how im full of shit and i can leave if i dont like whats going on. how about hte fact that palestinians are in camps (literally) because of the US aiding israel in occupying palestine. do you think that might make muslims a little angry? there are endless amounts of things the United States does that is pissing off the rest of hte world and fucking up the planet. kabar wants to tell me he lives in a free nation cus he can go down to the park and buttfuck some guy? thats not freedom. i want to smoke herb. herb is illegal because hemp would take too much business from teh corporations that own america. hemp is illegal (allegedly) because marijuana comes from it and marijuana is a drug. whats wrong with this picture? just because someone has age on their side doesnt mean they know what time it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Jah that argument is ridiculous This whole argument that somehow smoking marijuana is all tied up with not polluting the eartyh and psuedo-socialist-ecopolitics is just nonsense. Smoking dope is against the law, but since when has that stopped anybody? The American troops in Vietnam smoked enough marijuana to put a hole in the ozone layer, but that didn't stop them from fighting the war. They also were just about obsessed with the avante-garde music of the 1960's. Today, like right now, on Okinawa, you can go into rock clubs in Kin ville across the MSR from Camp Hansen, and there are posters on the wall dating from 1969 and 1970 of Jimi Hendrix, et al. There was a club there called "Purple Haze" (the name of a famous Hendrix song) and they sell absinthe mixed with Kool-Aid and call it "mojo" (as in "I got my mojo workin', baby, but it just don't work on YOU.") Marines with peace symbols on their body armor were common during Vietnam. (Didn't you ever watch "Full Metal Jacket"? You know--the Duality of Man?) Back in the '80s I had a bunch of friends in San Francisco who were definately part and parcel of the Financial District downtown. One worked for the computer programming company that had the contract for the San Francisco Stock Exchange. They used every drug under the sun (even I was shocked at the corporate dope culture) and they were passionately focused on the Almighty Dollar. Of course, it was as illegal as can be. Just recently there was a big scandal in the Marine Corps at Camp Le Jeune Marine Base, where a bunch of Marines were arrested for selling or using several drugs, including Ecstasy. It's like "Oh no, Marines using drugs? How could this be?" Indeed. They don't call themselves Uncle Sam's Motorcycle Club for nothing. The use of "hemp" (LOL) doesn't signify anything but a desire to get fucked up. There is no conspiracy to erradicate hemp because it's so valuable. It's against the law. That's the only reason. Alaska legalized it out of a spirit of libertarian do-as-thou-wilt, but when a million pot smoking dumbasses from the Lower 48 rushed up there so they could smoke dope, they outlawed it again. Do you have any idea how big Alaska is? Nobody up there gives a flying fuck if somebody smokes marijuana. But they do care about a bunch of outsiders moving in and screwing up their state. "Tourists Go Home--But Leave Your Daughter." And as for firearms and my obsession with them, you have no idea. Believe me, here in Texas, gun ownership is so deeply imbedded in the Texas national culture that we could probably arm the Texas Army National Guard a hundred times over out of privately held arsenals. When I went and trained with the Texas Constitutional Militia, it looked like a gathering of the National Guard, except they use civilian 4x4 trucks and privately owned airboats. One time we even got to fire NFA legal, tax-paid machine guns brought by an NFA dealer, and he paid for the ammunition. The one I got to fire was an 8mm German MG-42 from WWII. It was more fun than anything I've done in years. Nobody will ever, ever disarm Texas, you can take that to the bank. Not only are they armed and equipped very much like the U.S. Army or the Marines, they have radio communication, Medical care sections, logistical sections, and so on, much like the regular armed forces. Since the tragic Oklahoma City bombing, though, they have pretty much laid low. The individual members are still out there though. And so are the ammo caches and supply dumps, although a lot of that stuff must be getting pretty much out-of-date by now. The webmaster for the TCM even closed the web site, I heard. You might look it up on your browser if you're interested. I don't know if obsession is the correct word. It comes close, though. Every single person over 21 that I know owns firearms. About 85% of the adults that I know, both men and women, hold Concealed Handgun Carry licenses here in Texas. I heard somebody say on the radio that Harris County (of which the city of Houston is a major part) is the execution capital of the world. I don't know. Probably so. Tomorrow they are going to execute one of the Klansmen that dragged James Byrd, Jr. to death behind a pick-up truck in Jasper, TX. All I can say is "one more racist murderer off the count." It won't bring back Byrd, true. So what? They should smoke the other two as well, but one of them got life in prison. All I can say is that Texas juries are getting soft. No sympathy for sorry-ass murderers. What was the question again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Luv Roo Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 One thing I thought of when reading about them executing the klan guy in texas (good, first, then:) What about when Bush defended Texas's death penalty by saying they were ALL right (meaning they didn't kill one person who may have been innocent) and that he fully supported every death sentence. But he had no answer for the proof that many people on death row have been proven innocent, through dna tests, etc. What was the percentage again? something like 15%? Now that's a faulty system, and that's why it's fucked. But anyway, I don't wanna get started on the justice system... Your view on the sixties activists is different from the millions of others who were around and very extremely active at the time. My god-father was one of the creators of the Oracle (the paper from SF), and there were many more, so I've gained a pretty balanced perspective of it all without having to get it from the movies. At the same time, I don't totally disagree with militia. But one year in military school was enough for me to see that they try to brainwash you (for obvious reasons, the main being that one is a soldier, their not paying you to think about shit) - and once you're brainwashed, you don't really think too outside of it anymore. But when the Panthers took up arms, how can I disagree? for them, it was 'by any means necessary' - and I still think that to a certain degree. People are always going to have to fight the fight whether its militarily or intellectually. But this country's military interests are not for anything but to make the wealthy even wealthier. Bush's and Cheney's only concern is money for themselves (that's why I wonder how there are so many poor people that vote republican). They balk at the country daily in their psuedo speeches and laugh at America's loss of control over voter rights. America and the government have a responsibility to its people - to uphold this great lifestyle that you say we all have by sharing the wealth and putting taxed into education, healthcare and welfare - not militia. There are many americans who do not have a comfortable lifestyle or home or job - they are ignored by the status quo. NATIVE AMERICANS for godsake live in some of the poorest and most decrepid situations in the country....probably poorer than most third world countries too! Is that the lifestyle you are talking about - or is it just your own lifestyle you are happy about? On another note - not all countries want to imitate american lifestyle, many are extremely proud of their heritage and culture. But American corporations have infiltrated the world - telling everyone all over "you must be like this, you want this, you won't be enough until you have it" through subsersiveadvertisement. The brainwashing starts and people start to want American things, yet despise America at the same time - and not even know why! The balance is upset forever. I was in Amsterdam recently, and they treat drug addiction as a health issue rather than a crime. It is a beautiful, peaceful, clean and orderly city - really a model! People smoke pot, but they aren't overcome by it - it's just like having a beer. Geez, it was so nice to smoke a joint and be comfortable that you weren't breaking any stupid law, walk around stoned and appreciate the city and the people. Yet, there aren't potheads all over the place, it's just normal! sorry its all mixed up but there are alot of different little topics to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 yeah, just to get off topic for a sec... let's talk about Amsterdam... it is a beautiful city, and the Dutch govt. does have a truly enlightened view of drug abuse and treatment... you realize that prostitution is legal as well, a theory I support, but... that legal enterprise, prostitution, is a front for some of the largest human slavery rings in the world... of course there ar many other countries and cities these groups are active in, but let's stay in Holland... Thousands of women held in bondage, brutal human rights deprevation... Are the Dutch thereby responsible for all the flesh trade world wide? Another thing... OF COURSE there's pot heads all over the place, it's just normal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Luv Roo Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 yikes. (about the prosty slave trading). Since I'm not into porn or any of that I sort of ignored the brothels and stuff - and thought those ladies in the windows looked more bored than anything else. And, yeah - there's potheads everywhere, true, its normal! - I just meant it's not out of control at all, and hard drug addicts get clinical help. It just seemed like a way better system (but it could be that they have a very small area to be responsible for, and America is huge, so things would naturally be different). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jah Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 kabar, you missed the point that i was trying ot make. when i said i want to smoke herb i was referring to the coment you made about america being a country where you can do what you want. if it was a free country, i could smoke weed. whatever though. you just opened a whole new can of argument by saying that theres no conspiracy to keep hemp illegal. read up on it. its a huge conspiracy. hemp is not illegal because weed is illegal. its illegal because its so efficient and there are so many different uses for it. back in the 30's a machine was invented that would process hemp fibers into materials (pretty much a cotton gin for hemp). after this invention, hemp was going to be the next billion dollar crop (there are actual news paper articles from 1938 with ads about it) and this would greatly interfere with the cotton industry. not to mention the paper and timber industries. even oil. its proven, say whatever you want but its a fact, that hemp can be used to make a totally clean, energy efficient fuel that would be much cheaper and cleaner than oil. im pretty sure you can go a lot further without having to fill up too but im not positive so i wont state that as fact. by the way, people were still using marijuana frequently all over the world around this time too. so it also was hurting the tobacco and alcohol industries business too. so anyway, hearst and anslinger and a few others i cant remember (it has been alittle while and a lot of joints since i read about this shit) got together and decided something needed to be done. so they released loads of propoganda saying marijuana was a colored persons drug and it lured white women to them and all this other shit (you get the idea). all of the sudden marijuana is a terrible drug (all the while the upper class are smoking their ganjah (hash imported from turkey)) and it must be kept away from people (this was hte exact time refer madness came out. have you seen that movie? funniest shit ive ever seen). anyway, marijuana got demonized and made illegal, hence making hemp illegal because hemp cannot be grown without some females getting in there and flowering. so yea, its illegal now. all of the sudden america gets bombed by japan and were in ww2. so the countries desperate for resources now. they need good materials to make parachutes, shoe laces, rope.... a lot of things. what do they do? they bring hemp back (george bush sr.'s life was saved by his hemp parachute by the way) and win the war. so what excuse can they give to make it bad again because its sure as hell not staying on the market? well, a couple years later they were faced with a new problem, communism!!!! oh my god! now weed turns you into a zombie. if weed isnt stopped, our soldiers will become passive zombies and we'll be taken over by communists!!! ah shit! anyway, lots of propoganda and false information..... they did a study that revealed marijuana had 3 times the carcinogens as tobacco. guess how they came up with those results. they tested the marijuana leaf. the studies revealed that the LEAF (the part that smart people dont smoke) has 3x the carcinogens but the bud only had one third! then they did a test that showed marijuana would give you brain damage or possibly put you into a coma. guess how they came to this conclusion. they strapped monkeys with gas masks and pumped straight smoke into their lungs for a matter of minutes without allowing them any oxygen. the lack of oxygen itself for that amount of time would give you brain damage. great results huh? you, my friend are naive if you think hemp is illegal because its bad. you say, "theres no conspiracy to erradicate hemp. its against the law. thats the only reason." lol. spoken like a true american. let me rephrase that for you, "the only reason hemp isnt legal is because its illegal." yeah, dude, thats a valid point. what do marines do for a living after they get the boot? become cops??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.T Boy Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 http://www.ianai.net/jokes/forumpix/ChangingSubject.jpg'> sorry i had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 i don't think weed is that disturbing to carry mandatory minimums but at the same time I don't want to see potheads walking arounf the street all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 well, I resent the implication that because I know about this I might be 'into porn or any of that', but... yeah, in the red light districts the girls are usually legit, and students that are seriouly just doing a job that's pretty lucrative... on the outskirts of town, however, in the 'underground' brothels, many of the girls are 'indintured' to Russian and other Eastern European (mostly) pimps... girls are kept inside the houses and make little or no money per trick. They are basically exploited for years to pay off debts that are pretty miniscule in a real world economy ($3000 or so)... To be fair, the only reason Holland is 'hot spot' is because of their laws, but they demand strong regulation and many of these renegade brothels either forge documents, pay off individual cops or just fly under the radar as long as possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jah Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 roo, smart, i was just in amsterdam for six months. fist of all, a lot of people think that weed and prostitution is legal there. this is wrong. its decriminlized. meaning they dont really give a fuck but they can bust you if they want. the dude we stayed with got busted for growing one time and he lived there. and while of course there are potheads walking around, holland has a much lower number of users than the states (in proportion or course). the way they look at heroine addicts as sick instead of criminals helps keep the crime there down a lot! its a great policy. when i was on a tram one time it stopped all the sudden for no reason. i was wondering why it stopped then the driver walked up the guy in front of me and slapped some shit out of his hand and told him to get off hte tram. when i saw the guy pick up a smoking piece of foil and a glassi couldnt believe it. dude was smokin heroine on the tram. thats a fuckin disease if ive ever seen one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Pistol i don't think weed is that disturbing to carry mandatory minimums but at the same time I don't want to see potheads walking arounf the street all the time. whoops! too late... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jah Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 hahahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.T Boy Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Pistol i don't think weed is that disturbing to carry mandatory minimums but at the same time I don't want to see potheads walking arounf the street all the time. i heard something about a three strike policy down in cali, that if you got caught with a possession or was it possession with intent to traffic charge three times youd land yourself 25 to life? im my opinion thats ridiculous, i cant count how many times ive been busted smoking a joint up here and most of the time i get a "put it out" "dont do that here, do it at home" "step on it" "ill just take the rest of what you have, dont let me catch you again" response, i think that something like 25 years is out of the question entirley. is that really true? thats just terrible if it is, i mean if marijuana can land you a life sentance, id get the fuck out of that state on the double. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 'decriminalized' is synonymous with 'legal' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Luv Roo Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Smart well, I resent the implication that because I know about this I might be 'into porn or any of that', but... yeah, in the red light districts the girls are usually legit, and students that are seriouly just doing a job that's pretty lucrative... on the outskirts of town, however, in the 'underground' brothels, many of the girls are 'indintured' to Russian and other Eastern European (mostly) pimps... girls are kept inside the houses and make little or no money per trick. They are basically exploited for years to pay off debts that are pretty miniscule in a real world economy ($3000 or so)... To be fair, the only reason Holland is 'hot spot' is because of their laws, but they demand strong regulation and many of these renegade brothels either forge documents, pay off individual cops or just fly under the radar as long as possible... no, that actually wasn't an implication, just my own admittance of ignorance on the subject. Sorry to offend you, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 s'ok, I'll let it slide, I was just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 The 3 stikes your out law is for violent crimes. Smoking joints even trafficking don't count. Just whatever sentence the crime itself carries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jah Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Smart 'decriminalized' is synonymous with 'legal' no. get a law book, read up on both of them, and come back and tell me they mean the same thing. the guy who we stayed with in amsterdam, who lived there, got busted. why would ne get busted if it was legal? not the same.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.T Boy Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Smart 'decriminalized' is synonymous with 'legal' you know, a friend and i have been having that same argument for ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jah Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Pistol The 3 stikes your out law is for violent crimes. Smoking joints even trafficking don't count. Just whatever sentence the crime itself carries. WRONG!! the 3 strikes rule applies to any felony. granted, youre probably not going to be put away for life if youve been caught three times for growing, they could if htey wanted to..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 What is a Strike? A strike is a prior conviction of a serious or violent felony. They are listed in the California Penal Code. Serious felonies are listed at Penal Code Section 1192.7 ©, while violent felonies are listed at Penal Code Section 667.5 ©. [bill-link to both of these code sections]. The 3-Strikes law went into effect on March 7, 1994. This means that the current felony must have occurred after the effective date to trigger 3-Strikes sentencing. However, the prior strike convictions could have occurred at any time. This means that priors from before March 7, 1994 count as strikes, even though the 3-Strikes law had not been implemented yet. although 2 violent crime convictions and a petty count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 ok, look, I don't have a law book handy but... DEcriminalize means to stop making something criminal... i.e. legal... just because it's regulated doesn't make it prohibited... I can own all the bug spray I want but if I spray it in a bag and huff it, then I'm breaking the law... I can own all the matresses I want but god forbid I tear off that label!!! Also, let's say you have a small crop of 5 plants, if the DA so chooses, that can be 5 seperate counts of felony cultivation, the jury will have to decide on each plant/case... the judge may or may not rule that the punishment on those 5 counts runs concurrent or consecutive, assuming your found guilty, which we all hope you won't be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jah Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 you could be right. im not positive about it but everything ive ever heard about it implies that any felony will get you a strike. plus. its a federal law, not just in california. what about robery? if you commit three roberies where no one gets hurt or maybe the people arent even around, are you saying the three strikes rule wont apply to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 soooooo about them terrorists. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Pistol soooooo about them terrorists. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Luv Roo Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 It's so funny how the word 'terrorist' got changed from "someone who goes around killing innocent people" to "arabs who want to kill americans". Hey, did you guys know that: during the Reagan administration, the secretary of defense, Caspar Weinberger ordered a CIA sponsored car bombing in Lebanon that killed over 80 civilians, and this was just outside of a mosque. The car bomb went off when people were exiting the mosque after prayer. This was their way of fighting terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jah Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 look at it this way, if herb was legal, absolutely legal, you could grow it, sell it, smoke it, or whipe your ass with it when youre out of paper. thats legal. if it was legal, my friend would not have been busted. if it was legal, you could go downtown in amsterdam with a big sign on your back saying, "weed for sale" and a handbag full of ounces and sell them to anyone. try that and see what happens. at the least, youll be asked to leave. most likely youll get your weed taken though. another thing is that you can get busted for smoking weed in public. if you wakl down the streets smoking a spliff you probably wont get in trouble but they could bust you if they want. there is a difference. for instance, if weed was decriminalized in the states you may get to grow up to ten plants (lets just say) and have up to an ounce on you at a time. if it was legal you could grow as much as you wanted and you could do what you please with it. if it was the same thing why would they not jsut legalize it? its because they want to be able to take it away if they decide they dont like it. or they want to be able to regulate it and bust people if they dont like em or something. there is a difference man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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