fuck terrorist bullshit

[Dr. Dazzle]

Sorry man but it's true. They just stroll in here and say they need electricity, and water, and lumber, and oil, blah blah blah....and we let them. A perfect opportunity to extort them for millions and we don't take it......

[Esai]

I find this thread irresistable. kabar, have you read a lot about colonial history man? There is a plethora of books that chronicle how Western Europe(and now the Us too) pretty much fucked up most of the world.Now I can see the whole"that was a long time ago" theory if not for the fact that there has been no compensation for the serious damage inflicted on these peoples, or that many of these places are still kept in a state of artificial poverty by it's corrupt rulers(whom are payed off by the Us and US companies to keep it that way.I can list a few countries if youd like, indonesia,ecuador,haiti,botswana,etc.They keep these places impoverished so that there is cheap labor and rescources to extract at maximum profit.This is wrong. Im sure any one of you guys would be hating america if you were stuck in Vietnam workin for a nickel a day for a multibillion dollar companyfrom america. Youve also been misinformed of the US' role in many latin american countries. it was sad for me to read about the government I pay taxes to disrupting emerging postcolonial peoples' govts to dictatorships in the name of corporate greed,that sickens me bro.Now I dont know how many books youve read abot central America, but ask any salvadorian or guatamalan immagrant what brought them here and they usually have 2 reasons, economic oportunity(because of artificial poverty) or political instability caused by the US(to quote many).People with the whole "the US cant fix everyone" ideal need to think a lil harder.Were thse people just lying on ythe floor eating dirt till the US came along and saved them,no. There were many beautiful civilizations almost obliterated cuz of greedy politicians and businessmen. Like you said for example samoa.A beautiful people and country that was virtually destroyed by US imperialist greed after the spanish war around 1900.It was exploited for its rescources and goods,and then a lot of the islands were bombed for tests, isnt that a little fucked up?If people are trashin their land its for the same reason that reservations have high suicide,and substance abuse rates, If you take a peoples dignity and culture away they begin to destroy themselves,I feel this is somewhat true for many peoples in the US(blacks,chicanos).I agree with personal accountability, but if you cut of someone's legs you cant expect them to be a track star.

[Guest Canadiano]

Well said, Esai.

 

By the by, I recall an article in National Geographic a year or so back talking about a new system of real estate in Samoa. Pretty much, there was quite a bit of leniency with the Samoans as far as real estate. Fuck, I wish I could remember...:sparking up next one papes:

[KaBar]

A lot of Americans violated American law in 1939, and immigrated to Canada to join the Royal Canadian Air Force, because they knew that they could volunteer to go to Great Britain to fight the Nazis. True, many of them were Communists, but nevertheless, even economically challenged Americans are still Americans.

 

A bunch of Americans volunteered earlier than that to fight in Spain, in the Spanish Civil War in 1936. I knew some old Wobblies here in Houston that had an old buddy who had fought in WWI as a machinegunner. He went to Spain with the International Brigade (90% Communists) to train Spanish republicans how to shoot machineguns. He got killed in combat.

 

It's all about whose ox is being gored. One man's Communist mercenary criminal is another man's Communist anti-fascist hero. If your side loses, you are screwed. BTW, the French Resistance, especially in the French Pyrenees mountains, was made up largely of Spanish anarchist refugees who had fled the collapse of the republican government in Spain, and were living in France as displaced war refugees, hunted by Franco's fascist government. France would not deport them. There were a few that continued to attack Spanish governmental offices, post offices, customs posts, etc., well into the 1950's, because to them, a fascist in 1936, is a fascist in 1944, is a fascist in 1955. Most of them were either killed in gunbattles, captured and executed by Franco's carabieneri, or retired and were living in France back in the 70's.

[Guest Canadiano]

Originally posted by KaBar

There were a few that continued to attack Spanish governmental offices, post offices, customs posts, etc., well into the 1950's, because to them, a fascist in 1936, is a fascist in 1944, is a fascist in 1955. Most of them were either killed in gunbattles, captured and executed by Franco's carabieneri, or retired and were living in France back in the 70's.

 

see, I need to figure out that thinking pattern.

 

 

To do that, I must read, so i will go and do that now. Or in a few minutes, maybe.

[Brownbread?]

Terrorism... I hope the US doesn't get all Rambo in the Middle East. Sure our military can defeat pretty much any country that rages war against us but terrorists aren't countries. They're small groups and that makes them even deadlier. And as diverse as our population is it would be hard to spot who your enemy is if we were to get into some war on US soil. Look at Isreal, they could hold their own against countries 10 times their size but its the random attacks by a hand full of people that has them upside down.

 

America...I really dont understand how the world views America. Its like a love/hate relationship. I always hear people talk about how they hate America so much but yet they eat up American culture like hot wings.

With all of the stuff that America has done or trys to do, i think it's a country too complicated to hate or even love.

[jah]

kabar, most of the posts ive read of yours in the past ive agreed with for the most part. but sorry man, youre a little too caught up in all the american hype. first of all id like to say that i did leave america and havent been back in a year. do i hate america? no. do i hate the majority of the american public? yes. do i hate the american government? FUCK YES!! youre living in a dream world if you think america doesnt greatly contribute to the problems of hte world (more than any other country by far.) like i mentioned before. the US is responsible for something like 40 % (maybe 60 i cant remeber right now, but at least 40) of the pollution in the world. thats a big fuckin percentage for how big we are. thousands of pacific island countries are going to be under water. literally wiped out because of global warming that the united states is causing. the worst thing about it is that we could prevent it from happening by using hte technology we have for alternative energy sources(solar, hydro, HEMP!!) to cut co2 levels and reverse the process but we dont give a fuck! fuck that! i lived in hawaii for two years and thas a part of hte untied states and thats going to be greatly affected by global warming. the middle east is in utter chaos because of the struggle for oil. you think the american lifestyle is glorious? think again. americans are wasteful, greedy, and inconsiderate. you dont think its wasteful to drive a v12 SUV by yourself to go down the street to the supermarket? everything in america is prepackaged. do you realize how much waste that causes? and how much pollution it causes to make all that packaging. tell the people in the middle east that america doesnt cause other countries problems. i didnt say america is the only country with problems. theyre just the one causing the most. even china with its billion point two people dont put off as much pollution as the united states. and we go in and bomb iraq because theyre making weapons? what the fuck is that??!!?!?!? why the fuck are we allowed to sit over here and make as many god damn nukes as we please but other countries cant do the same to defend themselves (maybe because we dont want them to be able to defend themselves)? this country isnt about equal rights, its not about democracy, its not about freedom! its about money and power! period. i love parts of hte united states and itll always be my home. but fuck the united states. theyre going to get whats coming to them if htey dont start treating other cultures with some respect and stop thinking they can do whatever the fuck they want. half (approx. 3.5 bil) the worlds population is muslim. i know americans have big fuckin egos and think theyre indestructible, but mark my words, they cannot take on the world. i have been travelling the world lately and its amazing how beautiful and civilized other countries in the world are. who gives a shit if you get beat down for spray painting in singapore? dont paint. dont spit all over the place. have some fuckin respect for other peoples shit. i know other countries are corrupt. take thailand for example. their gov is mad corrupt but the people and the culture are some of the most respectful, down to earth ones inthe world. the american lifestyle is wasteful and unhealthy. why do you think theres such a huge obesity problem? speaking of obesity problems, the rest of the world is starting to get hit with this because of the globalization (mcdonaldization) that the US government so proudly supports. all the shitty fast food joints are poisoning hte rest of hte world now. if the US wants to fuck itself up and eat up all their natural resources, fine. thats the choice the dumbfucks of our country get to make. but they dont have the right to trample on everyone else.

[Guest Canadiano]

^^ word! It's all about equating environmental degradation with terrorism. Great points!

[KaBar]

Jah

 

Brother, you decided to move to another country 'cause you didn't like the U.S.? That's great, more power to ya. I hope you enjoy life wherever it is that you are, forever. As for people working for a nickle a day in some American tennis shoe factory in Vietnam--the Vietnamese are perfectly capable of manufacturing their own tennis shoes, and then they can sell them for how ever much they please. People who hate and despise Nike or Adidas can then buy Mai Truong brand tennis shoes, and be happy. Should Nike pay "a living wage" to Vietnamese tennis shoe workers? Yeah, they should. What's to stop French tennis shoe manufacturers, Chinese tennis shoe manufacturers, Pakistani tennis shoe manufacturers all from moving their plants to Vietnam and paying the workers $12 a hour? Answer: The going rate is $0.05 and hour, and they'd be crazy to pay $12 an hour. But they sure could afford to pay more. Let's say the average daily wage in Vietnam is $5 a day. Nike comes in, pays $10 a day. Immediately everybody else jacks up their prices, because they WANT THAT FUCKING MONEY. From their point of view, those tennis shoe workers aren't doing anything to deserve a 200% increase in pay. So if you want a bowl of fish heads and rice, and you work for Nike, the price is double. Renting an apartment? The rent just doubled. Buying clothes, hiring day care? The price just doubled.

 

Americans are not the only people in the earth that are hard-bitten capitalists, we are just the most successful. Your fixation that the U.S. is the source of all the world's misfortune is completely misplaced. The Vietnamese tennis shoe workers are grateful for a decent job. Could Nike afford to be more humane about the way they run their business? Yeah, they could. Will they? Probably not. What can the Vietnamese do about their plight? For one thing, they can just ignore Nike, refuse to work for the wages offered, and go back to the family rice farm, where he joy of farming organically using human shit, and wading through it eight hours a day cultivating rice by hand will certainly bolster their resolve in refusing to be exploited economically by cruel American tennis shoe magnates.

 

Or they can do what every body else on earth is trying to do--immigrate to the United States, so instead of being a pediatric surgeon in India or a structural engineer in Sri Lanka, they can open a convenience store in a black American slum, and make 100 times as much money. But then, of course, the black Americans buying their food and whatnot at the store will be furious that a bunch of foreigners have the unmitigated insensitivity to open a store in their neighborhood and be successful at it. Here in Houston, we have had six or eight convenience store owners from India and Pakistan shot to death by armed robbers or armed shoplifters when they attempted to stop them from robbing them.

 

Quite frankly, I don't get it. The United States is 100% capable of closing it's goddam borders and saying "FUCK YOU" to the rest of the world. But you know what? No matter what we do, all these whiners will not be satisfied. I have a message for everybody, everywhere. TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN GODDAMN PROBLEMS AND DON'T BITCH TO US. But they won't do that, because they CAN'T do that. And it is not our fault, it is the fault of each individual person who fails to do what is necessary to take care of their own problems. This idea that one is helpless in the face of life's slings and arrows is totally not true. The idea that the United States is out in the world deliberately screwing people up is also not true. All the sniveling comes from people who can't figure out a way to get on the gravy train.

 

Example: The Phillipines kicked the U.S. military bases off their island. They crowed in victory and talked all kinds of shit about American imperialism, yadda, yadda, yadda. WITHIN A YEAR, they were begging us to come back and spend our money there. "Come back, you can train in our jungles! Come back, you can dock your ships wherever you want!" And guess what? STUPID ASS UNCLE SAM IS BACK THERE, HELPING THEM HUNT TERRORISTS. We should have told them, "No thanks, you already dissed us, so get fucked." What happened to the multi-billion dollar military bases we built there? They were turned over to the Phillipine government, and rich Filipinos turned them all into sweatshops for their brother Filipinos, at a fraction of the wages the U.S. government was paying.

 

Same goes for those ungrateful pricks on Okinawa. The U.S. could have killed everybody ON that island in 1945. But no, we were mericiful and humane, even though the Japanese killed 10,000 American Marines as we invaded. Now we are paying for our generosity, with unending bitching and complaining and demonstrations by the Okinawans. Hell, we could have solved this whole problem by killing them all. They deserved it. But as usual, the Americans let them play us. Ungrateful fuckers. UNCLE SUGAR NEVER LEARNS.

[jah]

i see where youre coming from with this and i shared some of your views a year or two ago but ive realized since then that it doesnt matter whether nike is paying better wages than working in a rice patty, theyre still inhumane, child exploiting pricks who have no compassion for other humans. like i said before there are plenty of other corrupt governments in the world. the US just likes playing htem for everything they can, and in return, they get to send some people over to the states. its a two way street. why does america have so many immigrants you ask? cheap labor! even in the states all these people coming in from other countries get some shitty job that pays squat (true its way more than they would make in their country but its barely enough to live decently in the US) but they still fuel the economy. the government doesnt give a flying fuck how many immigrants we have. theyll let htem in until the states is packed to the brim so they can keep the whitehouse stocked with maids and servants. you act like the US has nothing to do with these corruptions around the world but by merely supporting it they have a part in it. tell me about the elections in colombia and other south american countries(not to mention the elections right there at home. i guess everyones already forgotten about those and the enron scandle since theyre too busy playing super hero). are you going to try and tell me the US doesnt play a big part in those. what abou the war on drugs? hows that working down in texas. because it sure as fuck doesnt work anywhere else in the country. its another money maker. they make so much fuckin money from prisons (not to mention selling drugs) these days they dont give a fuck about lockin up petty criminals with some burly ass killers. if the US just had an influence on themslelves it would be fine. they want the world. what do you think george bush is really talking about when he says "gobalization"? free trade? maybe(unless of course youre a communist country like cuba. communist countries are ona differnt globe). but you know damn well that it means mcdonalds and caltex stations in every city of every country in the world. it means the world will be one big fast food eating, big car driving, tv watching consumers. they are pushing all their bullshit onto everyone else.

what do you think about the co2 levels i mentioned? you didnt even mention that. that was fact. that was on national geographic and its damn believable. huge polar ice blocks are already melting at scary rates and raising hte level of the sea. in a matter of years whole countries are going to be swallowed up because of our wastefulness and youre still talking about us doing nothing. go visit one of those islands and interact with the people and then tell them that their country is going to be washed away before their kids are in high school and its touch luck because america needs prepackaged food. NEEDS THE SHIT. how fuckin pathetic is that? they have no fuckin clue how shitty it would be to have to move away from their island paradise and everything they knew. and these people probably wont even find out why their homes are going to be underwater. if theyre lucky, the US might even give them a new home in some project in the US where they can contribute the cheap labor movement. while most of hte countries in the world have people who are worried about surviving our priority is shit like prepackaged food and being able to do what we want because we can. so yes, you can live however you want. its a matter of wanting to live more reasonably to help out. in europe and australia they stress recycling quite a bit more. there are recycle bins almost every block in amsterdam and they charge 50 c per bag at grocery stores. and it works. people reuse their bags because they know its rediculous to pay that much for a bag every time they go shopping. why cant he US do this? they dont fuckin care enough. theyre too lazy. why does the US support israel? because there are so many rich jews in the states. israel has palestinians in camps in their own country because the US lets them. and you wonder why muslims are pissed at the states. would you want to be kept in a camp? would you even want another country to bring their military into yours period? fuck no. sharon is a pigheaded dipshit just like bush and they need to get the fuck out of palestine and stay the fuck out. this holy land shit is nonsense. im not saying the US is the cause of all the worlds problems, but theyre having more and more influence in them everyday. if you dont think so, youre either blind to the facts or youre in denial man. there are great things about the US, theyre just becoming less and less everyday the bush administration is in office.

[jah]

and about the phillipines... why would they want the US in there? they didnt beg for the americans to come back and deal with al qaeda, the americans said (literally), "youre either with us or against us," pretty much telling htem that they can cooperate and let us take care of business there or they can be on our shitlist (they pretty much got told "move the fuck aside and let us work"). even if they did want the US's help its hte least they could do for how long the states occupied their country. you think theyre supposed to be greatful for those sweat shops they got from the military bases? fuck no. their countrys been occupied for years. they didnt want the bases and they sure as fuck didnt want their country to be run by the states.

[Pistol]

The reason US troops are in the Phillipines is because the ragtag Philipine "Army" was hunting these Abu Sayef guys for months/years and could never find them much less catch them bring them to trial and release the hostages. And they knew the Americans could and WILL get the job done. The only reason the govt. didn't ok it before was because of National Pride and other politic bullshit about letting foreign troops work on Philipine soil. Hopefully the Philipne army can pay attention to US soldiers and get the job done. The US Navy Seebees already built what they had to and left.

[jah]

maybe so. wouldnt you say its rather coinsidental that the US is in there right after 9-11 when there are a lot of al qaeda members over there? i thought so...

[JimmyHofa]

in response to socrates: how did a person who believes in the feasibility of a one world government ever get a master's degree in anything?

[suburbian bum]

Man im not even going to take the time to explain my veiws. They are almost exactly the fucking same as jah. I know a lot of people will tell me that im just some fucking tree hugger. I dont care, america has lost touch with why we are here. Thats the earth, we should fucking take care of it.

 

Anyone who thinks im just a "dirty hippie" can go have the best day of their lives.

[Guest Canadiano]

Originally posted by suburbian bum

Man im not even going to take the time to explain my veiws. They are almost exactly the fucking same as jah. I know a lot of people will tell me that im just some fucking tree hugger. I dont care, america has lost touch with why we are here. Thats the earth, we should fucking take care of it.

 

Anyone who thinks im just a "dirty hippie" can go have the best day of their lives.

 

I've been called a tree hugger, and my heart has been broken nuff times because of what we do to our planet. But I still hate these new school hippies. Bunch of fucking hypocrites!

[KaBar]

You Guys Crack Me Up

 

Hell, I was a REAL hippie, and I don't entertain such naivete, LOL. All I can say is you guys have been snookered. You can't see the elephant in the living room. That's okay, you are perfectly welcome to your opinions, and I'm sure your viewpoint will be a comfort to you when you're older, LOL. I held ridiculous opinions myself when I was a kid, and I held them for a hell of a lot longer than any of you guys are likely to.

 

There's something about people, I'm not sure exactly what it is, but a lot of people, and especially a lot of young people, just have a very hard time obeying the law. They insist that they can do whatever they please, which is not true. Then when they get arrested, convicted and punished for breaking the law, they whine and cry and say "It's not FAIR! Why ME?" It's stupid, because they could have avoided the whole thing by simply obeying the law.

As for the War on Drugs, drugs are illegal. The punishment is way scarey. I don't want to go to prison, so I don't do drugs. End of story. If hopping trains had a ten-year minimum sentence, that would be the end of hopping trains for me.

 

Laws are not permenant, they can be changed. All you need to do is convince enough Americans that using drugs is just great, and "presto!" the law will be changed. Groovy! But until then, no hope for dope.

 

As for the elections in Columbia, the nation is at civil war. We will probably get involved on the side of the government of Columbia. (I can't really see the U.S. gov't weighing in on the side of formerly-Communist, narcotrafficante terrorists.) When we do get involved, the trafficantes will get the shit stomped out of them. One car bomb here in the States, and the populace will go crazy with blood lust to kill trafficantes. We will pour millions of dollars worth of military aid into Columbia. They will pay us back in coffee. American troops will become excellent narcotics interdiction operatives, and probably all start snorting coke.

 

Life will go on. "Columbia: that's Spanish for Viet Nam." Thirty years after the end of the war, we will have a zillion Columbians living here, opening "Columbiatown Malls" and getting into fist fights over which faction of crooked Columbiana was right) back in 2002.

[jah]

im not saying drugs are good, im saying hte war on drugs doesnt work. theyre turning nonviolent criminals into killers by locking them up with people who are convicted murderers, rapists, gangsters, burglars, and other violent criminals in general. you adapt to your environment. i dont do drugs either. thats funny what you said about people always breaking the law then complaining when they get cuaght. thats too true. i got busted a couple years ago and i never thought tthat shit would happen to me. it was a big wake up call for sure. it was one of hte best lessons of my life. i missed a trip to mexico and christmas because of it but it was well worth it. hahaha. i saw how much it really sucked to be locked up. and it wasnt even that bad for me. i would hate to be in that place for a long time up with the violent criminals on max security. anyway. ive stated my oppinion and youve stated yours. maybe mine will change sometime... maybe yours will....

 

peace

[Guest Daddy_Screw]

politics is all bullshit

[I Luv Roo]

Kabar

from your stories, you were a MARINE in the 60's, correct me if I'm wrong though. And partying with hippie girls when you were on leave doesn't make you a bonafide hippie - or maybe it does, since hippie was a term created by the media to give a shallow, partier, druggie appearance to people who thought different. Maybe you just fell into that hype, just like you're doing now. But where were you for all the political shit that made the 60's such a historical period of time? Did you do any work with the civil rights movement? the american indian movement? the women's liberation movement? the black panther party? What about the trial where they literally gagged Bobby Seale, violating all his rights? Wounded Knee? Gay rights movement? Or what about when the police killed four students at Kent State? Got any other wisdom about the time you want to shed on us younger kids? Hey, just cause you were alive back then don't mean you're an expert on it.

 

But - it's now. And I'm one angry american - SICK and TIRED of the shit that people put up with in this country. In Los Angeles yesterday, three whitecops pinned a 16 year old black boy and beat him up - it's on video tape. What happened to the cop? He's on PAID administrative leave! It's not just the shit our government is doing all around the world - it's right here, right now.

 

People just continue to consume, continue to turn their brains off so they don't have to be faced with anything real or painful. Numb out. Isn't that what they wanted you to do in the sixties too? Tune in, turn on and drop out?

[Mr. Mang]

i always thought of hippies as the drugged up ones who didn't care

 

and activists as the ones who actually wanted to change things]

 

guess i was wrong?

[Guest imported_El Mamerro]

Re: You Guys Crack Me Up

 

Originally posted by KaBar

Hell, I was a REAL hippie, and I don't entertain such naivete, LOL. All I can say is you guys have been snookered. You can't see the elephant in the living room. That's okay, you are perfectly welcome to your opinions, and I'm sure your viewpoint will be a comfort to you when you're older, LOL. I held ridiculous opinions myself when I was a kid, and I held them for a hell of a lot longer than any of you guys are likely to.

 

There's something about people, I'm not sure exactly what it is, but a lot of people, and especially a lot of young people, just have a very hard time obeying the law.

 

Truer thing has never been said. Pay attention to those words guys, in 15 years the vast majority of you will realize how useless and ineffective your "revolutionary" anti-government stances are. Plus, you'll realize that most people who are in power right now had the SAME views you guys have when they were young. Then you'll end up willingly and happily joining this machine you hate so much, while the new youth scorns your wealth.

 

It's not so much having trouble obeying the law, as it is admitting someone has authority over you. This authority could be the most benign, righteous leader ever, and the youth will still find a way to demonize, point fingers, and blame shit on him. It's human nature, especially when you're young, to want things done the way YOU think should be done. When hormones decrease and knowledge and experience increase, attitudes change. Beer,

 

El Mamerro

[Guest imported_sofarok]

Reading all this one fact springs to mind. YOU LOST VIETNAM hahahaha now some of you seem to want to repeat the process. Guerrilla wars are about knowledge (something many of you seem to lack) not overwhelming fire power. The U.S has a very bad track record fighting these kind of wars e.g.: Somalia… oh yeah and if the U.S is the place where you can be whoever you want then what the fuck are you doing living in a trailer park???

[KaBar]

I Luv Roo

 

Roo---You are 100% correct on the approximate age--I was the right age to have fought in Vietnam. I did not join the Marine Corps, however, until 1976. The American forces, except for a skeleton crew, were pulled out in 1972, by President Richard Nixon. Prior to that, Nixon gutted the anti-war movement when he ended the Draft, in 1971, if memory serves.

 

I became an anarchist at age 18, while still in high school. I was adamantly opposed to the war, and protested it vigorously for years. I travelled around the country, hitchhiking and riding trains, to attend various anti-war marches and conferences, etc. I was way into the "revolutionary youth culture." I knew people who were in the Yippies!, I knew people in SDS, in IWW, in the Socialist Workers Party, in Revolutionary Youth Movement I and also RYM II (the Weathermen.) The longer I stayed in the anti-war movement the more disillusioned I became. Everything the conservatives said was true. It was a movement that was dominated by communists. However principled and loyal the early "Peace movement" people might have been, within a few years they had all been elbowed aside by genuine Communists, some from CPUSA, some from Progressive Labor Party, some from Socialist Workers' Party and so on. Everytime I thought I knew that some anti-war figure was the real deal, he or she turned out to have some connection to the Communists. One woman was a member of the Young People's Socialist League (YPSL--pronounced yip-sul) which is the Communist Party USA's youth wing.

When the anti-war movement started to become a pro-North Vietnamese movement, I was really ready to chuck it. I had serious doubts that I knew anything true. Everybody on the left was lying their asses off, and "the enemy" , that is, the men who fought the war in Vietnam, turned out to be truer and truer and truer. Even the guys who didn't want to go, went anyway. And the loudmouth war protestors, like myself, were safely out of harm's way.

When Nixon ended the Draft, it was like someone yanked a rug out from under us. OVERNIGHT, the anti-war movement just vanished. Except for the political extremists (I was an anarchist, remember) all the regular citizens, college kids, etc., etc. just disappeared from the demonstrations. Their interest had only been their own personal safety and well-being. And since they had no intention of enlisting, and the Draft was over, "fuck it." No more anti-war movement. I was really disheartened and disillusioned. I joined the IWW and worked within that organization for several years, but I was having serious doubts that my ideas were right.

 

I quit IWW and after some soul searching, I enlisted in the Marines. I demanded "infantry." The Marines have a slogan--"First to Fight." If we were going to fight anybody, I wanted to go. The Corps sent me to armorer's school, instead, and I became an infantry weapons repairman. I worked as a firearms mechanic in a Battalion armory, in an infantry battalion on Camp Pendleton MCB. We moved with the infantry companies of course, when they went to the field. I was, in Marine Corps parlance, a "pogue", not a grunt. But I served in a grunt battalion. "My" armorers looked just like any other Marine in the field, though. We carried rifles, combat equipment, ammunition, etc., etc., plus a tool bag with which to repair weapons. In wartime, we would have been attached to various infantry companies, probably to the Headquarters platoon. I realize this doesn't mean much to you, but any Marines or soldiers reading this will understand. I was an MOS 2111, and I specialized in repairing M-60 GP (general purpose) machine guns. I also worked on everything else we had, M-16A1 rifles, M-1911A1 pistols, 60mm mortars, 81mm mortars, etc.

 

My years of bumming around and trainhopping mainly occurred while I was in my early twenties. All told, if you include my hitch hiking days in high school, and joyriding on trains for short trips, I hopped trains for about seven years, on and off, and hitch-hiked between ages 17 and 26. It wasn't all continuous. I would hitch hike somewhere, camp for a while, then jump a train, then get a job, then meet a girl and stay awhile, break up, jump another train, etc. I took my first actual journey on a freight train in 1970, where I was carrying equipment, food, water, etc. Before that, we were just screwing around, riding maybe twenty miles and then hitch hiking home.

Okay? If you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer them directly. Rsaxon50@hotmail.com Obviously, my last name is not "Saxon", LOL.

[KaBar]

Sofarok

 

You're a kid, so you at least have a good excuse, but you really don't know what you're talking about. The U.S. did not lose the war in Vietnam, but it did withdraw it's troops because of political unrest at home. I doubt the U.S. government will ever make that mistake again.

 

Let me tell you a story about a man I knew who was from Northern Ireland and who was in the IRA. When he was young, he was an active service member of the Belfast Brigade. He told me once that his favorite weapon was the .45 Thompson submachinegun. As he got older, he married, and he and a younger brother moved to the family farm, which was close to the border with the Republic, and a major stopping point for contraband coming across the border. They were well-organized and clever, and although they were investigated and raided, they were never caught with any evidence of arms smuggling.

 

One day, the British Army and the RUC came and set up a checkpoint right past this fellow's gate, between his gate, and the village. They stopped him and his wife and all their family EACH AND EVERY TIME THEY LEFT THE FARM. Every single day, on their way to school, everybody in the car got searched, even the kids. This guy complained and lodged protests, all to no avail.

One night, he and his brother left the farm together in their car, and of course, they were clean as a whistle, what with having an Army personnel carrier and two RUC cars parked out by the road 24 hours a day. This particular night, the soldiers stopped them, separated them and searched them apart, and the car. It was raining. "What, Mr. IRA, no kids with you tonight, eh?" "No, they're in bed." "Ah, and no wife either." "My family is at home." "Well, then, look what I've found in the boot of your car." The soldier reached under his coat, and brought out an old Webley pistol, in .455 caliber or so. A big pistol. "That's not mine! You can't charge me with that!" "Oh, I have no intention of charging you, sir. Not at all. I'm here to let you know, up close so you understand me--get the fuck out of the country and stay out. Because next time, the corporal here is going to shoot you for being armed and resisting arrest. Do you understand me? Get the fuck out, before the month is out."

He and his brother both left and immigrated to San Francisco. "If I had stayed, eventually they would have either killed us, or sent us to prison for ten or fifteen years. I had kids. So I left."

 

The next time the U.S. is involved in a war where there is a big political resistance, I predict a high percentage of the protestors will prove to be posessing narcotics for sale. Bing-bam-boom. Go to a demonstration---off to prison for possession of cocaine.

 

I doubt that we will "lose" any more wars because of politics at home. We anti-war protestors got our wish. The Army and all the military services are now all-volunteer, and all-professional. They joined to fight. We have enough prison cells to incarcerate the leadership of any protest movement (thank you, prison reform.) African-Americans are no longer an isolated, disgruntled minority. The police chiefs and mayors of virtually every large American city are black, or have been black in the recent past. Both of our chief national security advisors are black (Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice.) The Army and the Marine Corps are both substantially minority persons, and also substanially female. There will be no military draft, so that takes care of the college kids.

 

And the awful thing is, we did it to ourselves. I doubt there will be any more Vietnam War-type protest movements, at least not of the dimensions of the 1960's.

[Smart]

Originally posted by jah

and about the phillipines... why would they want the US in there?

 

The billions of dollars it brought to the local economy?

 

they didnt beg for the americans to come back and deal with al qaeda, the americans said (literally), "youre either with us or against us," pretty much telling htem that they can cooperate and let us take care of business there or they can be on our shitlist (they pretty much got told "move the fuck aside and let us work").

 

Well, it's the Abu Sayef, and they've held American prisoners for something like 2 years, well, they recently executed the woman... But the Phillipino govt. is begging for US military 'advisement' because the Abu Sayef basically operates with impunity, kidnappings and hotel takeovers are common

 

even if they did want the US's help its hte least they could do for how long the states occupied their country.

 

We haven't occupied the Phillipines for fucking ever, we let them have their own government, though you're probably too young to remember the Marcos regime... We had a military base on the island, much like we have military bases in Germany, but you aren't bitching about the US 'occupation' of Germany...

 

you think theyre supposed to be greatful for those sweat shops they got from the military bases?

 

We didn't create the sweat shops, we built the buildings that have been converted into sweatshops. Do you go back to your old houses and mow the lawn?

 

fuck no.

 

so... they told you this?

 

their countrys been occupied for years. they didnt want the bases and they sure as fuck didnt want their country to be run by the states.

 

What years were those exactly? I already mentioned the Marcos regime, and then there was the Corazon Aquino story...

[Guest imported_sofarok]

Re: Sofarok

 

Originally posted by KaBar

Let me tell you a story about a man I knew who was from Northern Ireland and who was in the IRA. When he was young, he was an active service member of the Belfast Brigade.................

 

 

Im not quite sure what your point is? Although im British I agree with the Irish viewpoint on northern Ireland, at the same time there are people who live there who consider themselves British, seems very little that can be done to resolve the situation.

 

By the way the ira have committed hundreds of ‘terrorist’ acts, killed hundreds of ‘innocent’ people, why are they any different to Al Qaeda? Is it because there not attacking the usa? Also what is your preoccupation with firearms?

[jah]

kabar, you sound nothing like a hippie or activist or whatever you claimed to be. you may have been in the movement but it doesnt really seem like you knew what you were protesting (like many of your generation who bitched and whined endlessly about nothing). true, technically the united states didnt lose the war in vietnam. we never surrendered officially or whatever but we pulled out because we were getting our asses kicked. and they would have lost. joining the marines is what i would guess gave you this patriotic dream of america today. vietnam was none of our business. its sad that troops were sent over to die. but really, the united states got what they deserved out of htat war. who the fuck are we to get rid of communism in the world? obviously communism doesnt work. does democracy? fuck no. the united states is always going around trying to make free elections across the globe. who the fuck are we to say that other countries have to have free, fair elections? thats fuckin rich coming out of the mouth of mr bush himself. by joining the marines and still preaching about their modo or slogan or whatever youve been completerly crossed off the official "hippie" list in my book. military itself is fucked up. wars are stupid. theyre money makers. all wars. the marines go first before theres even a war. they go in with covert ops and do illegal ambushes and stuff. if you think the united states military is here to protect and serve youve been watching too many GI Joe movies. the united states hasnt been attacked by another military since ww2. marines are a bunch of fuckin jar heads man. puppets. machines. idiots. that goes for the whole military. i know a military is essencial but if the world didnt have such pigheaded mentalities they wouldnt be necessary. its mentalities like those of the american public that make the military a vital unit in government. i find it funny how everyone has the idea that its alright to sacrifice innocent people to obtain your objective. its bullshit. one innocent death is a crime. everyone in the states has demonized the al qaeda because they attack civilians. of course its wrong. of course its cruel and deserves punishment. so why the fuck do all you people think its fine when the US goes in and bombs weddings and schools and churches and kills tons of innocent people? because its not right in your face. if you ever lived outside the US (or even just travelled for a long time) to an area closer to this shit thats going on, youd have more of an appreciation for how it affects the whole world and not just you at home. hey, how heroic was it when the US dropped two nukes on japan killing over 200,000 innocent people on the spot and killing millions over the years. that was a great end to the great war wasnt it? how fuckin heroic. but hey, we saved lives. fuck that. the ends do not justify the means. if there was a war in the states and thousands of innocent people died, you wouldnt think it was so cool to do that kind of shit. oh wait, that did happen in the states and all the dumb motherfuckin citizens DO still think its cool. thats right, US citizens are so fuckin dense that flying planes into the world trade center and pentagon isnt enough to shine some light into their hollow heads. instead of thinking, "hey, you know what? weve totally tuned out the rest of the world and have just been focussing on ouselves. were so self centered, we think were the victims of everything. why dont we see whats actually going on in the world and why people want us dead. lets change our ways and get out of other peoples business so we dont get bombed again. lets stop being pests and leaches and draining the rest of the worlds resources while killing off the whole world at the same time with our pollution and shit." no no. the media tells us we didnt do anything and that superhero bush has everything under control. lets go right back to living our wasteful, unproductive lives and be even more exhobitant to shove it in their faces. fuck you world!!! fuck you!!! im going to do what i want because i can and if you dont like it you can... uh.... maybe bomb us? get a clue....

[jah]

Re: Re: Sofarok

 

Originally posted by sofarok

 

 

Im not quite sure what your point is? Although im British I agree with the Irish viewpoint on northern Ireland, at the same time there are people who live there who consider themselves British, seems very little that can be done to resolve the situation.

 

By the way the ira have committed hundreds of ‘terrorist’ acts, killed hundreds of ‘innocent’ people, why are they any different to Al Qaeda? Is it because there not attacking the usa? Also what is your preoccupation with firearms?

 

 

 

the british have been bringin protestants into northernt ireland since they occupied them in the 12th century. they gave irish catholics benefits for truning protestant and have been doing so for hundreds of years. the plan is to have enough protestants there to keep the people from a revolt or electing an irish leader that wants britain out. its working pretty good. over the years these brits who were brought in have been integrated into northern ireland and are now irish, therefore there are a lot of irish who support britiains occupation and thats one of the reasons its been so hard to get rid of britain.

[Smart]

Originally posted by jah

kabar, you sound nothing like a hippie or activist or whatever you claimed to be. you may have been in the movement but it doesnt really seem like you knew what you were protesting (like many of your generation who bitched and whined endlessly about nothing).

 

the civil rights movement? NOTHING! the war in vietnam? NOTHING!

 

i know a military is essencial but if the world didnt have such pigheaded mentalities they wouldnt be necessary.

 

So, now it's "the world's" fault? Make up your mind man...

 

I think some of the biggest things Kabar has going for him in this debate is that he has a better knowledge of the facts and his ability to spell correctly lends an air of authenticity to his words...