Attn: Friends of boxcarwilly

[Smart]

Originally posted by boxcarwilly

dont kill yourself it doesnt solve anything it isnt good. which is more selfish to want someone to suffer through what they are going through so you can gain something by their existence in your life or to allow them to "selfishly" end their own suffering on their own time leaving you with nothing. i do not feel that i have an obligation to make a statement in anyones life so therefore offing myself is not selfish to me it isnt bad or good it is a means to an end.

 

I'm sure you may be to close to the situation to realize how arrogant and, yes, selfish your view here is. Would you stand idly by and watch a man whip a yelping dog? Would you not save the drowning man because you don't want to make a statement in his life, or because you feel you don't owe him anything? C'mon man, you have more compassion than that I think. Now let's talk dichotomy. You are the dog and the man the does the beating, you are the drowning man and the man with the life line.

 

Originally posted by boxcarwilly

allen faulkner says some really good stuff about how our society doesnt teach us how to deal with pain except escapism. and that sometimes what we think is pain is only a sensation that we havent learned to deal with.

 

Pain is the quickest form of reassurance that we/you are still alive. Fuck escapism, you need to realize that your brain is asking your body a question, your body is replying with the only answer it has, pain. You're just unwilling to accept this answer. Also, your not escaping pain (mental or other) by inflicting other pain, that's a distraction, not an escape. Realize, pain is a constant, such is life.

 

I forgot to quote the part where you said you think everyone is young, but I assure you that I am not. I have had bi-polar disorder since I was 15 and I remain unmedicated, but I drink, BOY do I drink. Alot of the days I don't go to work I just sort of lie around the house and mope. I have lost at least 1 close friend or relative EVERY YEAR for the last 12 years... Cricket, Paul, Mom, Ken (suicide), Jaime (suicide), Mitch, John, Bryant, Billy (accidental suicide), Nana F, Uncle J, Nana M, James, Joey, Baby Louis, Angel R.I.P.

 

My homeboy Eric went FULL ON bonkers, committed against his will type shit, but, he got through it and now he owns a couple houses, he has a wife and 2 kids and he's happy.

 

Happiness is out there, you're welcome to it, why do you feel less worthy than anyone else? What will it take for you to believe that you're worth it? ALot of people around here, and I'm sure around you, are telling you that we feel you're worth it, can't you just take our word for it? Of course not, but I am telling you, death and drugs are the same, stasis, painless perhaps but devoid of happiness, sadness, love, hate, work and play. Killing yourself is half-assed, it doesn't make you happy, just 'not sad'... seek true happiness, do not squander your opportunity.

 

 

Take care man, get better, keep us updated no matter what.

 

Smarticus

[T.T Boy]

get better man.

 

i know what your going through, sometimes everything falls apart for no reason, but it gets better.

[Cracked Ass]

Jobe, I know we have never met, but I feel qualified to offer my observations and support based on my own experience with severe depression. I am mixing in my opinions, of course, but remember I've been in a dark pit that by your description sounds very familiar. I'm not there anymore and being able to look back on it, and compare how I feel today with how I felt then, gives me what I feel is a pretty damned good understanding of the nature of depression.

It IS biological. I tried to stress this in my earlier post, and I'm going to stress it again. Depression is temporary brain damage, pure and simple. Chemicals are not where they should be in the right amounts. The physical parts of your brain responsible for governing your emotions are not working properly. Therefore - as I said 3 or 4 times in my other posts - you are NOT a competent judge right now of whether you should live or die, whether there is hope for a better future, and whether what you feel right now is real emotions, or false emotions brought on or exacerbated by the chemical problems in your brain.

Think of a computer with a virus or other partial malfunction. You try to get your email, and it fucks up - you don't get it all, or it's gibberish. You try to download something and it fucks up - maybe not every time, but enough to know there's a problem. You run some software, and it fucks that up too, to varying degrees. Now let's say you have the computer run a self-diagnostic program, where it is supposed to check all its functions and announce whether it's still in working order. Can you trust the results? If the computer itself is fucked up, it can't analyze itself properly, and it might tell you anything from "I'm fine" to "I am permanently destroyed", when the correct answer is that it needs the hard drive purged and reformatted or something, after which it will be fine.

You are that computer. Yes, human brains are more complex, but I firmly believe the fundamental principle here is the same. The implication is that you have to mistrust your negative emotions: they are the artificial product of a biologically unwell brain, no matter how real they feel. And if you can't trust your own emotions to be real, you must to some extent mistrust your own analysis of how to proceed, and put some trust in people who know something about repairing brains.

That brings us to a troublesome issue: the people trying to tell you they know stuff about repairing brains are mostly western doctors, and I think that you and I both disagree with their practices and philosophies. They are quick to label things and even quicker to medicate them. I believe that no normal human should have to take drugs daily. I would stick to your guns about refusing a plan of treatment that calls for you being medicated for the rest of your life. I don't know what to tell you about trying some drugs for the super-short term. It might be helpful, or not. In my successful attempt to recover from depression I gave up all drugs and alcohol, including over-the-counter stuff. But my depression was brought on by alcohol abuse, and yours was not, so I can't offer specific advice with any certainty on HOW to get your chemicals back in balance. (Except as a side note you will probably not care for: I have my questions as to the completeness of the vegan diet. Not that drug-laden cow meat is super healthy food, but I believe that vegans exclude so much from their diet for ethical reasons that they run risks, not yet completely analyzed or accounted for, of various nutritional deficiencies, some of which could directly exacerbate depression on the biological level. I'm sure you have an answer for this and I don't think I'm inclined to debate you on it.)

You are not depressed because humans pump cows and chickens full of drugs, then butcher and eat them. You are not depressed because people blow each other up over useless tracts of desert, or books full of words. You are not depressed because your life is a living hell. You ARE depressed because your brain is not functioning properly right now, and is creating and magnifying all kinds of false but very powerful negative emotions. A person who is not depressed can DEAL with all of the things I listed. He can address them constructively, let the evils of the world inspire him to activism or creative endeavors. When I recovered from depression I was not happy. I WAS on an even keel emotionally: I had good moods and bad moods that were reasonable, that I could deal with, and in an even distribution. I have the CAPACITY for happiness, and incidents of emotional pain are not blown terrifyingly out of proportion, because they stem from actual misfortunes rather than a malfunctioning brain.

Reread my old post, about the recovery time and how I felt at the various stages. Whatever treatment scenario you undertake will probably take a long time, and the concept of "hope" is not present for the first few months in my experience. Just see if you can try to trust some outside opinions, and not be consumed by your own dark imaginings, which I am certain are enormously magnified by a simple biological problem.

[serum]

yes i completly agree with your apprehension about searching out new avenues when all you get is fire. depression has a wierd way of influencing you to make bad decisions. sometimes these decisions are out of habit. coping with depression becomes a task in itself because you must reteach your brain. sometimes you open the door to see fire but that burn will eventually go away and with it you will have learned so much. sometimes that fire only exists in a clouded mind. walking into the fire believing yourself to be immortal or accepting your karmic lessons might be one way to teach yourself success. sometimes we fail so much that we begin to believe that we won't succeed. you're still alive for a reason. i was so scared of leaving my depression that i had gotten to know so well. depression became comfortable. it was all i knew and all i will ever know. leaving my home country was a metaphor for killing the self that i used to be. i didn't care anymore for the consequences that would happen if i would fail. i accepted that the only failure was to give up on life. when i came here i only had $1500 and in japan that ain't shit. but suprisingly the depressive side of my, my comfortable depression just didn't feel comfortable anymore. something inside me took over. a struggle to survive. for the first week here i sat in the hotel wondering what the fuck was i doing and i wished only to go back to my old self. sitting in the house everyday by myself depressed. you have to metaphorically kill that self that you've become used to. i wanted to kill myself since i was 5. i've put the razor to the wrists many times. but i knew that there was one door out there that i still haven't opened.

 

i don't pretend to know everything or have experienced everything. don't give up hope, your piece of the world is there, be patient and you will get yours, i promise. i understand your spiritual burden and i too feel as if i'm roddy piper in "they live" i've got the sunglasses and i see things for what they really are. we must pay a price for that knowledge.

 

when krishna created radharani she became more powerful than god himself because he acknowledged that though he has supreme power over everything that exists, he could never ever possess that level of beauty. even god has his weaknesses. like cracked said, "don't be consumed by your own dark imaginings," some see flowers, and some see sewage. the door is there but darkness of our own mind tricks us into only seeing whats in our imagination.

 

again i wish you all the luck in the world. take care

[Guest $$$$]

Re: people who try to kill themselves piss me off..

 

Originally posted by willy.wonka

sometimes i would like to kill myself,but i figure.."what the fuck?! ima miss out on so much.."

 

and thats my word to mother

[Intangible]

Im just another faceless lamb, but I must say that boxcar I do read your posts, and share many of your views and opinions...I do enjoy reading your thoughts and ideas...I hope that you get through these rough times...and have a prosperous future..

[Ski Mask]

boxcar: just wanted to wish you well in your recovery. Alot has been said on here, and its made me do quite a bit of thinking myself. I hope you get well enough to work through what you've got to work through, and stay with us, painting, living, and maybe even laughing.

 

I dont know what it is, but it seems like doctors have no clue of how to handle people with depression. I've walked out in the middle of appointments, and have yet to find one I can deal with. The first guy I saw asked me about my diet, and stopped just short of YELLING at me when I told him I was vegetarian. He went off on somthing about not being able to live without animal products until I told him that I was VEGETARIAN, not VEGAN, and what the difference was. I can't offer you any advice really...but I'm sure you've had your fill anyways. Each case is unique...you'll find you coping mechanism soon enough.

[nipples-galore]

whats up Jobe?......we're all still thinking and worrying about you over here. Try and keep your head up fella....I know this shit is tough and sometimes you dont know what to do (and I dont know what to tell you, so I'm a bit at a loss for words), but you're tougher and you'll get through this. All your boys are pulling for you......believe that.

[Guest KING OF HELL]

the unexpected.

 

yeah. so you and i arent exactly friends. at one point i was looking to break your hands. ive said some nasty things directly to you on here. and then at some point i think i tried to make a bit of peace by way of music references and thinking about old shows and things.

im still not sure that you and i would be great frinds, but i no longer consider you an enemy.

 

feeling better maybe shouldnt be the goal. feeling reconciled and at peace with yourself in given situations maybe should be. i hope you get there.

 

theres a million people here that are showing that you have a million options and people to talk to.

i am just one more. talk to POINT and get my digits if you want to spin verbal cartwheels around the karma tree.

 

THE ZELOT. FLOE BSB FH TRANSCEND

[WhOZE]

boxcarwilly...thumbs up....whoZE?

[DISCO BRYSO]

I have dysthymia too. I don't even know where to begin, or if I should. sometimes I think the condition is a sham, something a doctor concocted out of his inability to properly diagnose something or other. but then I consider the fact that for the last 10 years of my life (nearly half) I've been severely depressed. and it doesn't go away. I've been on drugs, tried living holistically and indeed nothing seems to work. I guess I'm just as lost as you are. but the point is that there's always something to live for. what works for me is to think condescendingly of all the jack-asses in the world. how many people who from a shallow standpoint have little purpose or meaning in the grand fabric of history. I think about how they continue to live. I at least am doing some things that I care to and that keep me interested whilst thousands are watching TV or reading Jack Welch's biography.

 

I want badly to give you some advice, to lift your head up a little bit because I've been where you are. so utterly stuck. I wish I had someone to show me what was what. and I still do. here you've got 50-60 people chiming in with their analysis and suggestions. probably not the most effective method of support, but I can sense that there are some who truly do care about you. consider that. think about it deeply and with energy. compassion is powerful. there's even some guy who used to want to break your hands throwing you a few good words...

 

no one can make you want to live other than yourself, obviously. so do that. stop worrying about your problems or deficiencies and start worrying about how to impact your feelings about yourself. I am depressed because despite an exhaustive search I feel I'll never find a place in the world I can call mine. somehow I've never truly wanted to die. I contemplate what could be considered a purpose and even when I think that I have none I still believe that someone or something would truly and deeply miss me were I gone. an even greater sacrifice than taking your life is giving it to those that you love.

 

and to completely contradict everything I've said... don't think about it. don't think about the sadness, about your position or even about the future. pretend you were a child. wake up in the morning and do whatever pops into your head. watch cartoons, ride your bike without training wheels, eat cocoa krispies with chocolate milk. do whatever your heart desires.

 

I hope that you're doing alright. I hope that you take my opinion with a grain of salt and I hope that you don't die. we are in the same boat of clinical psychology and seeing you go would be an ominous sign for me. find people you love and don't let them go. the end.

 

/.disco.bryso./

[boxcarwilly]

evil doctors. evil pills. evil arguements.

 

thank you again for all the support, i guess ill just give an update as to my mental

condition or lack thereof.

 

today was a bad one. i had my first appointment with a "psychiatrist/drugpusher"

and went through the runaround in my story again and again with yet another

person who tries immediate diagnosis and bandages. i heard the you arent your

self therefore your judgement is impaired logic. i even got in a debate over the

philosophy of suicide in which i proceeded to scare my doctor enough to have him

call the critical care team and make me make promises which i wont make. i am

getting sick of telling my story or abstract parts of it to every face who walks in

the clinical setting, tho i know i probably would do it regardless...

 

the diagnosis of dysthymia was taken away, and i was rediagnosed with severe

depression, recurrent... i may have mentioned that i just wanted to clear it up for

some people. basically i have self diagnosed manic depression along with hearing

it from people who know the illness and know me. and the doctors in their all

pervasive knowledge start off in a wierd tradition of western medicine, attacking

the initial without digging deeper. and so their method of madness would include

putting me on a popular ssri and hoping it jams me into a manic upswing,

thus properly diagnosing bipolarity. so am i going to take the candy, i havent decided

yet because the last thing i need, when i am like this is to think of myself like that,

to contemplate the ups and the ass i make of myself when i am there is a hell of

alot worse than staring at bottles of pills all day and wishing i drank whiskey because

then i could make a hell of a good cocktail and sleep it off and just not ever go

manic again.

 

the whole thing reeks of dr jekyll and mr hyde and i wouldnt mind the hyde

because he doesnt have social grace, an image, a family that cares... he just is.

and jekyll on the other hand is this man who cares the world of what people think,

an image i know exists but am not happy or comfortable living and dealing with,

and loves the people that love him back.

 

on a different note, anyone with bipolar may want to lend thoughts to this...

most bipolar artists have an amazing time of productivity while rapt in mania,

while i sit in depression drawing and painting more than i ever have, there is more

time in the day, the conflict allows stuff to come out... and so there is even more

of a conflict in not wanting to numb myself.

 

theres probably more... i just had a long day.

thank you all again. paraphrasing prozac nation: depression is an extremely vain

and selfish mindstate, dissociative and not good for the normal ones to be around..

what i have taken out of something like this... is that no matter how much care and

tact and truth there is to someone attempting to show sympathy, empathy or

support noone says it right because of the pathology of what i am dealing with

entails. tho i can be as selfish as i wantand plug my ears i still thank you all for

trying especially the one or two who i know its hard for.

[23578]

i for one am all for not naming names when it comes to mental disease. i mean if the brain is a computer, then it's a whole lot more complicated than the even the computer technicians of today would even have an idea of dealing with. and it's not a computer in the sense we know about anyhow, first off it's organic. that said, it does seem like manic depressives are often are self labeled. my friend has this problem, he's always denying that he's depressed though even though it bleeds through his face. i think he's insecure is all. he wants to feel that he is still a "whole" person. should i tell him there is no such thing? balance is abstract? i don't know what to tell him. on his part, he's gotten a whole lot better since the first little while that he's known about the problem. he claims to have the proper meds, yet he's aware of the cycles which they put him through. he's not talking gibberish at least. hey, i don't know if this helps. keep fighting.

[seeking]

jobe, not sure where your at these days, but im gonna be in cambridge doing a show on the 17th.. if you wanna hop on the list, hit e with an email.... hope things are going better...

[Remi Martin]

hey boxcar.....

i was just reading your post on the psychiatrist drugpusher....i hear exactly what your saying man....

i got really deppressed last summer, so deppressed to the point i think i saw the sun maybe two time out of two weeks...i would sleep all day wake up when the sun went down and go out and drink and write by myself once it got late enough.....quit my job, thank god i got state money for deppression or i woulda been homeless...before it got that bad i went to a doctor and wanted to beat his ass right there...everything you said about them is so true...i feel like i could never find help with institution help...allthough i didnt get to the point of direct suicide, i definitley tried to drink myself to death and gave up hope all together...not talking to any of my friends, stopped going to work, stopped caring all together...

i dont wanta sound like the bad guy, but maybe a drink or a little puff of weed will put things in context for you...wait, dont take that advice...depression and alchoholism go hand in hand, however my father is manic d. and i could never take the hand full of meds he does...

cause it gets better..really it does...especially when your young.

i like smoking herbs because you temporirily lose control of your brain, in a good way of course, the effect i get with OCCASIONAL usage, is my mind opens up and i see things from new view points, and the best part, it comes from a plant, not a drug company..yah dig...

anyway guy, i wanted to let you know i feel you on the whole psychiatric industry/doctor scene...a bunch of bullshit if you ask me...granted i have never tried the drugs so i shouldnt knock them, and i probably have recurrent depression thats mildly severe......

but hang in there guy, remember, your a artist...were supposed to be manic and what not...makes the ladys hot for you..

stay up, one love.

[Guest L.RonHubbard]

Boxcar, you probably go way too deep into this for any advice to seem relevant or reasonable. You been thinkin this out for a while most likely, and you got the intellectual whip that cats like me who arent that versed on the subject can relate too. Some next level shit if you will. The only thing I can think of is maybe you just need to find a tight woman, or another bro if your sex drives in that lane, but you know, someone to lamp with you when it gets hectic. HAHAAH this sounds weak as fuck too, but i know some good loving can be even better for depression than painting!