The best reasons to believe that there is a God

[Mainframe]

I also suspect that what I am content to call spirituality in this context is probably no more than another complex human emotion or emotive reaction, like deja vu, dreaming, etc. that will eventually be explained by future generations of neuroscientists.

 

I find that explanation only enhances the "big mystery" feeling. There is another Einstein quote that I've already posted in this thread, but I'll post it again: "The religious feeling engendered by experiencing the logical comprehensibility of profound interrelations is of a somewhat different sort from the feeling that one usually calls religious. It is more a feeling of awe at the scheme that is manifested in the material universe."

 

I guess I think it is a conceit of the educated to call this feeling fundamentally different from what the vulgar masses call religion. It is perhaps more refined, it avoids the messy turmoil and pervasive superstition of institutional religion, but I hesitate to say that my experience of the essential mystery is fundamentally different, or better, than that of a religious believer.

[Smart]

Have I replied to this thread yet? Have I said "Fear"? That's my answer:

 

FEAR.

 

That's the best, and only, reason to believe in God. Fear of uncertainty, fear of the future, fear of death. Fear of an unseen cosmic bean counter who is constantly monitoring your every triumph and transgression; like Santa but he watches while you masturbate (and poop).

[Fist 666]

i recently saw a ben stein movie "expelled" or something and it was retarded.

 

i've been atheist for about a decade now. at first i was passionate. i wanted everyone to liberate their mind from the weight that is god-belief. now i don't care. believe what you want.

 

what i wanted to say was that richard dawkins is an asshat. the people he's convincing are the same kids that go to college to become gays, liberals, conservatives or whatever rebellion seems to be in only to revert years later. i don't like him and don't like him running around saying he is the face of atheism.

 

believe what you want, if you're comfortable in it and it makes you happy and gets you through the day, then by all means enjoy yourself, just keep it to yourself.

[ephect]

some people make gods out of things that really doesnt mean we are suppose to worship them. true worthy beings never required worship.. thats sort of why the bible refers to them as "angels" or angelic beings.. in reality they have specific names. They are in service to the supreme being(s), and there are different classes (or ranks even)of "angels" (AlIeNs??)

 

you guys just dont get it, because the only representations of aliens or other worldy beings youve probably seen are pictures on the internet or in movies... basically pictures of beings that probably look like or had to do with reptile alienoids..

MAYBE you ARE reptile humanoids.. that doesnt mean that the universe isn't going to accept or expect you.. but judgement DOES come eventually..

 

now imagine beings from far away that are so beautiful to see, that you'd literally fall on your knees before them..

these are the higher ranks of angels, in service to the most high..

 

the "angels" that most people see depicted as white men/women with wings and golden halos and golden clothes.. alot of times, really just represented mushrooms, and sometimes represented the planets and or beings that people associated with these mushrooms down to us from.. (sometimes people saw ANGELS when they were on mushrooms.. seeing into realms that arent normally perceived by the un opened [awakened] human eyes) O_O or maybe it was the other way around? yes they had VISIONS.. not "psychedelic cOlOuRs DuDe" but like.. angelic super-natural visions, and different visions for and to different cultures at that... some people probably saw winged angels dudes and ladies due to the natures they lived in, and the mushrooms that had more to do with the sun and lower atmospheres (yellow amanitas) SOME people saw visions that related more to the moon and stars because of the mushrooms they ate had more to do with that like, and pointed out in that direction (psylocibes) ANYWAYS.. african tribes, and southern american tribes probably saw some crazy shit considering visionary plants they consumed that a lot of cultures were very afraid to partake in.. etc etc.. different revalations for different people, that in the end SERIOUSLY related to eachother.. its just the fact that a lot of cultures dug really deep and ended up destroying other cultures and places, because they tried to take what wasnt theres.. alot of people ate the wrong plants and mushrooms (poisonousss), even though they KNEW they were bad.. which basically corrupted them, because of a decision that they KNOWINGLY MADE, and chose to follow anyways..

this is what the hebrw texts referred to as the "deeds of the wicked"

it was plain black and white and for them, and they chose not to follow any colour around..

 

 

theres no use in believing in a three letter word called god.. this comes from people who are unaware or scared to use and partake in these plants and visions.. people who are unwilling to learn and grow.. people who just slapped one big word across what they couldnt understand.. the english word eventually being called "GOD".. the closest thing to that in any old testament scripture (hebrew or aramaic) was probably GAD.. which doesnt sound too creative or fun..

 

the reason that "GOD" is associated with christians is because of the mistranslation of the early Old testament (and new testament ) texts.. it's seriosuly fucked up the way america looks at hebrew and aramaic belief systems cultures that probably had more to do with mushrooms and cannabis, and things that can easily be ingested in any meat consuming diet without having to purge oneself as much, than visionary plants, because those visionary plants make you throw up and actually cleanse you.. "christians" just choose to associate with whats the easiest and most widely accepted.. IN FACT most CHRISTIANS just dont accept the fact that mushrooms and cannabis were a huge part of what the texts that christianity originally comes from are based on.. they just choose to believe in jesus instead, a fictional character.. when in fact jesus never existed.. but in fact there was a messiah, if not more than one messiahs.. who were merely men who actually did something to help failing portions of mankind.. theres proof that YASHUAH (who is documented in arabic texts as well as hebrew) was really just fighting for the end of cannabis prohibition at that time while healing people with medicinal herbs and plants along the way.. whatever he brought with him from each town (as an offering from the peoples of those towns) to the people of the next destination..

when this came to the roman empire, their goverment had very strict watch over cannabis just as america does today..

 

A lot of the people that yashuah visited were sick because they only ate meat and stuff, much like american cultures of today.. and they didnt know about certain herbs or healing, or much times didnt HAVE anything, besides maybe just some cannabis or a few mushrooms.. alot of people probably didnt know when or wear or how to grow this plant... but considering it grows everywhere under any condition, it was possible, alot of them just didnt understand it yet..

 

in the mean time, this is where healing was necessary, this is where the part of laying hands on people and praying shows up, they annointed people with annointing oil (which in the old testament specifically calls for cannabis as the main ingredient to be used) in order to heal them... along with hymns and the goodness cannabis brought, a lot of these people were healed soley just from that.. :)

im sure they had instruments and stuff to guide these sicknesses out of people bodies...

 

 

so when it comes to the UNITED STATES of America, in its current state, we dont have much value anymore.. we dont have gods much, so people just worship other people.. sometimes, people score some acid, thats about it these days.. and then theres a bunch of mushrooms and homegrown cannabis (indoor) which is a good first step, but gets left at that.. this is where the point of the sun comes in.. the sun causes the plants to grow properly, without it, these plants lack nutrients, and thus even though we have food, we are still in famine..

 

sun festivals were necessary to people, because they wanted to please the cosmos, in return getting good crops that season..

 

thats pretty much why we need to legalize cannabis and hemp, so we have a reason for existence in this shitty ass country.. so we have some kind of worth and value besides paper and coins.. and manufactured drugs like acid and "ecstasy" pills

 

most importantly, I tell you this :

take part in the blessings that nature around you has to offer, and hope and pray that soon things will be set free for us again..

once cannabis is legal our soil will get much better, and we will be able to grow a lot of other plants that were originally here in the first place.. hell they might even re grow naturally once we start getting healthier ourselves..

 

I hope people can understand this.. :)

[ephect]

Have I replied to this thread yet? Have I said "Fear"? That's my answer:

 

FEAR.

 

That's the best, and only, reason to believe in God. Fear of uncertainty, fear of the future, fear of death. Fear of an unseen cosmic bean counter who is constantly monitoring your every triumph and transgression; like Santa but he watches while you masturbate (and poop).

 

most people only have fear, because they afraid of something that usually ends in judgement

or just a fraid of judgement themselves.

[Smart]

no, they aren't afraid of 'something that usually ends in judgement' they are afraid of judgement at the end of their lives and NOBODY has survived to describe the trials... so...

[ephect]

wow you sound pretty christian "at the end of their lives?"

 

judgement happens every day whether you realize it or not man...

 

true judgement comes from plants and nature, mostly those of psychedelic or entheos nature.. but believe what you want

 

their might be one FINAL judgement in the end, in the end of your days, or even the "end of days" whatever.. but to wait until then to be judged is foolish.. change begins now man.. as long as you are on a path that you know is better than being wicked and foolish, you shouldnt be fearful..

=|

and trials happen all the time if you choose...

[Smart]

Then judge me everyday, watch how it doesn't affect me. I'm not gonna change, I am as God made me and to be anything else would be an affront to His wisdom. Judge me all you want but understand you are criticizing God's beloved child. He says: Judge not lest ye be judged.

[ephect]

im not trying to judge or lay down judgement... but truth be told this has a lot to do with your decisions...

 

do you follow the old testament law completely?

not just the commandments, but the dietary laws even?

its hard.. but it makes sense

 

and you must consider, the last supper was completely vegetarian, if not vegan (most likely)..

bread and wine :)

 

some say that in the new testament "meat and fish" were hidden meanings that represented mushrooms..

 

so maybe the man that walked amongst jews and gentiles was in fact a plant and mushroom based vegan?

 

 

but you know thats just speculation, it doesnt take any further faith or wisdom to underrstand that at all..

 

though the new testament warns of false doctrine EXPLICITLY and tells us that we will be commanded to abstain from MEATS (again which means foods, not fleshes) which the lord has made good for food..

 

but to each his own...

 

im just saying, if there is a final judgement in the end, I dont wanna have a bunch of guilt weighing me down..

[Smart]

I don't feel guilty. I regret nothing, even the things I regret.

[ephect]

you shouldnt.. but its always good to have a nice vegetarian diet.. even though its nearly impossible to be perfectly vegan in this country and be completely healthy without growing stuff yourself, its still possible to get on a better note with nature..

[ephect]

and also I apologise for judgin you.. its not up to me or based on what I have to say..

[morton]

yall been going at it in here.

 

Arguing with a believer about the existence of god is like trying to teach a dog trigonometry, you will just make yourself tired and piss of the dog.

[morton]

Oh yea, fuck vegans.

[ephect]

depending on the vegan it might be the best fuck of your life

[nsmbfan]

some people make gods out of things that really doesnt mean we are suppose to worship them. true worthy beings never required worship.. thats sort of why the bible refers to them as "angels" or angelic beings.. in reality they have specific names. They are in service to the supreme being(s), and there are different classes (or ranks even)of "angels" (AlIeNs??)

 

you guys just dont get it, because the only representations of aliens or other worldy beings youve probably seen are pictures on the internet or in movies... basically pictures of beings that probably look like or had to do with reptile alienoids..

MAYBE you ARE reptile humanoids.. that doesnt mean that the universe isn't going to accept or expect you.. but judgement DOES come eventually..

 

now imagine beings from far away that are so beautiful to see, that you'd literally fall on your knees before them..

these are the higher ranks of angels, in service to the most high..

 

the "angels" that most people see depicted as white men/women with wings and golden halos and golden clothes.. alot of times, really just represented mushrooms, and sometimes represented the planets and or beings that people associated with these mushrooms down to us from.. (sometimes people saw ANGELS when they were on mushrooms.. seeing into realms that arent normally perceived by the un opened [awakened] human eyes) O_O or maybe it was the other way around? yes they had VISIONS.. not "psychedelic cOlOuRs DuDe" but like.. angelic super-natural visions, and different visions for and to different cultures at that... some people probably saw winged angels dudes and ladies due to the natures they lived in, and the mushrooms that had more to do with the sun and lower atmospheres (yellow amanitas) SOME people saw visions that related more to the moon and stars because of the mushrooms they ate had more to do with that like, and pointed out in that direction (psylocibes) ANYWAYS.. african tribes, and southern american tribes probably saw some crazy shit considering visionary plants they consumed that a lot of cultures were very afraid to partake in.. etc etc.. different revalations for different people, that in the end SERIOUSLY related to eachother.. its just the fact that a lot of cultures dug really deep and ended up destroying other cultures and places, because they tried to take what wasnt theres.. alot of people ate the wrong plants and mushrooms (poisonousss), even though they KNEW they were bad.. which basically corrupted them, because of a decision that they KNOWINGLY MADE, and chose to follow anyways..

this is what the hebrw texts referred to as the "deeds of the wicked"

it was plain black and white and for them, and they chose not to follow any colour around..

 

 

theres no use in believing in a three letter word called god.. this comes from people who are unaware or scared to use and partake in these plants and visions.. people who are unwilling to learn and grow.. people who just slapped one big word across what they couldnt understand.. the english word eventually being called "GOD".. the closest thing to that in any old testament scripture (hebrew or aramaic) was probably GAD.. which doesnt sound too creative or fun..

 

the reason that "GOD" is associated with christians is because of the mistranslation of the early Old testament (and new testament ) texts.. it's seriosuly fucked up the way america looks at hebrew and aramaic belief systems cultures that probably had more to do with mushrooms and cannabis, and things that can easily be ingested in any meat consuming diet without having to purge oneself as much, than visionary plants, because those visionary plants make you throw up and actually cleanse you.. "christians" just choose to associate with whats the easiest and most widely accepted.. IN FACT most CHRISTIANS just dont accept the fact that mushrooms and cannabis were a huge part of what the texts that christianity originally comes from are based on.. they just choose to believe in jesus instead, a fictional character.. when in fact jesus never existed.. but in fact there was a messiah, if not more than one messiahs.. who were merely men who actually did something to help failing portions of mankind.. theres proof that YASHUAH (who is documented in arabic texts as well as hebrew) was really just fighting for the end of cannabis prohibition at that time while healing people with medicinal herbs and plants along the way.. whatever he brought with him from each town (as an offering from the peoples of those towns) to the people of the next destination..

when this came to the roman empire, their goverment had very strict watch over cannabis just as america does today..

 

A lot of the people that yashuah visited were sick because they only ate meat and stuff, much like american cultures of today.. and they didnt know about certain herbs or healing, or much times didnt HAVE anything, besides maybe just some cannabis or a few mushrooms.. alot of people probably didnt know when or wear or how to grow this plant... but considering it grows everywhere under any condition, it was possible, alot of them just didnt understand it yet..

 

in the mean time, this is where healing was necessary, this is where the part of laying hands on people and praying shows up, they annointed people with annointing oil (which in the old testament specifically calls for cannabis as the main ingredient to be used) in order to heal them... along with hymns and the goodness cannabis brought, a lot of these people were healed soley just from that.. :)

im sure they had instruments and stuff to guide these sicknesses out of people bodies...

 

 

so when it comes to the UNITED STATES of America, in its current state, we dont have much value anymore.. we dont have gods much, so people just worship other people.. sometimes, people score some acid, thats about it these days.. and then theres a bunch of mushrooms and homegrown cannabis (indoor) which is a good first step, but gets left at that.. this is where the point of the sun comes in.. the sun causes the plants to grow properly, without it, these plants lack nutrients, and thus even though we have food, we are still in famine..

 

sun festivals were necessary to people, because they wanted to please the cosmos, in return getting good crops that season..

 

thats pretty much why we need to legalize cannabis and hemp, so we have a reason for existence in this shitty ass country.. so we have some kind of worth and value besides paper and coins.. and manufactured drugs like acid and "ecstasy" pills

 

most importantly, I tell you this :

take part in the blessings that nature around you has to offer, and hope and pray that soon things will be set free for us again..

once cannabis is legal our soil will get much better, and we will be able to grow a lot of other plants that were originally here in the first place.. hell they might even re grow naturally once we start getting healthier ourselves..

 

I hope people can understand this.. :)

 

i am 24'd. but i think you like your red tampons anyway?

 

very insightful. most people don't realize what kind of roles psychadelic drugs had on influencing early cultures.

 

the real problem is that organized religion removed them from texts, killed off "druids" and "gypsies" and "natives" who believed in spiritualism more than the religious dogma that was being forced upon them, and then they demonized marijuana and psilocibe. personally, my views on religion stem from introspective journeys while on these two drugs. there is something bigger going on here, and human beings with the power to do so have corrupted that "feeling" we all have that someway, somehow, we are all connected.

 

the romans took over the world because they were more organized than the rest of the scattered tribes across the land. they LITERALLY KILLED PEOPLE that didn't believe what they were told to. the perverted golden rule goes like this; he who has the gold, makes the rules (my dad used to tell me this all the time).

 

this is why the powers that be won't EVER legalize mind altering drugs like cannabis or mushrooms. they're consciousness expanding drugs. you become fully aware that the world sells you bullshit everyday. we just might find out that EVERYTHING WE KNOW IS WRONG. and people will live together peacefully, like the hippies wanted. or John Lennon, in "Imagine"

 

it's about control, using fear of the unknown to make people live a certain way. so I'd prop Smart for his reply above, but again I'm 24'd.

[nsmbfan]

depending on the vegan it might be the best fuck of your life

 

lol, co sign.

 

this vegan chick fucked my dick off. it was fun.

 

but she had dreadlocks.... i dont dig dreads too much, they smell bad.

[nsmbfan]

yall been going at it in here.

 

Arguing with a believer about the existence of god is like trying to teach a dog trigonometry, you will just make yourself tired and piss of the dog.

 

i think being a believer in anything is powerful. I envy that power. the conviction it takes to completely give yourself to something is fucking awesome, whether that's religion, your relationships, or your lifes work.

 

i am a skeptic. i'm sorry. but i'm not the guy who calls the infomercial "WITHIN THE NEXT TEN MINUTES!" for this "LIMITED TIME ONLY OFFER!", or believes when Guitar Center is having their "BIGGEST SALE EVER!"

 

P.T. Barnum said there's a sucker born every minute. that's the truth, it's primarily how I make my living selling insurance - I convince impressionable people to buy "protection" (like the mafia sort of).

 

the biggest group of "suckers" are those looking for an answer. the answer they seek will calm their soul and give them purpose. ever read "A Purpose Driven Life" by Rick Warren? my mom has the book, but it is a very popular book amongst Christians, teaching them how to "live for the lord". my mom is a very impressionable person. I could convince her to "drink the koolaid", if you will. and this is a perfect representation of the "average person".

 

heres a link if you're interested in reading dribble: http://www.purposedrivenlife.com/en-US/Home/home.htm

 

as for arguing with believers, there is no point. that's not what this thread is about. i started this thread with the intention of learning what makes a "believer" tick, to see if I can latch onto that school of thought in order to better my own life.

 

it's a desire we all have as humans. the biggest way to convert someone is to go to them at their time of weakness, and offer them a lending hand by showing them "the way". and if you go to church, from the outside in, it looks like these people are successful, happy people. truth is it's all a facade, but it helps those who need it, mental midgets with no other means of coping with life and it's mystery. but it makes sense that missionaries do most of thier converting in Africa, land of chaos and disease and famine.

 

it's an easy answer for those who require it. most people aren't ready to think for themselves.

 

and going back to the "foxhole" point, if you didn't believe you were doing Gods work, you wouldn't be in that fox hole. period. unless of course your life was in direct danger - and in our current wars, they aren't. but the general consensus is still that the terrorists must not succeed in destroying our way of life.

 

i wish i was stupid, really i do. intelligence is a curse.

[ephect]

i am 24'd. but i think you like your red tampons anyway?

 

very insightful. most people don't realize what kind of roles psychadelic drugs had on influencing early cultures.

 

the real problem is that organized religion removed them from texts, killed off "druids" and "gypsies" and "natives" who believed in spiritualism more than the religious dogma that was being forced upon them, and then they demonized marijuana and psilocibe. personally, my views on religion stem from introspective journeys while on these two drugs. there is something bigger going on here, and human beings with the power to do so have corrupted that "feeling" we all have that someway, somehow, we are all connected.

 

the romans took over the world because they were more organized than the rest of the scattered tribes across the land. they LITERALLY KILLED PEOPLE that didn't believe what they were told to. the perverted golden rule goes like this; he who has the gold, makes the rules (my dad used to tell me this all the time).

 

this is why the powers that be won't EVER legalize mind altering drugs like cannabis or mushrooms. they're consciousness expanding drugs. you become fully aware that the world sells you bullshit everyday. we just might find out that EVERYTHING WE KNOW IS WRONG. and people will live together peacefully, like the hippies wanted. or John Lennon, in "Imagine"

 

it's about control, using fear of the unknown to make people live a certain way. so I'd prop Smart for his reply above, but again I'm 24'd.

 

QFT.. though i do have to dis-agree with the last part... even the AMA (american medical association) has repealed their support of cannabis as being class 1, stating that it is valid for medical use.. so the government really has no backing anymore, if theres not gonna be peace there will be revolt.. so hopefully something good comes about..

[Cracked Ass]

if ya continue to burn up the herbs

we gonna burn down the cane fields

[ephect]

i dont smoke weed im wating for a better seed

[Organic Therapy]

well, you make the most sense. props if i weren't 24'd.

 

i am not an athiest. but I do believe that religion is a form of control. and I dislike that. but considering the alternative (no religion, no control) I think that's why it was created by Charlemagne in the first place. it makes perfect sense if you want people to live amongst each other in a functioning society. but religion generally uses fear.

 

fear as a motivator is not good for me. for anyone. it will only make you do just enough to NOT incure the wrath of that which you consider holy. ie. i'd kill my neighbor for his land if Im hungry... then fuck his wife - if religion didn't tell me that this selfish behavior will lead to my wicked enternal damnation, what the fuck keeps me from being all Ghengis Kahn in this mother?

 

i've dabbled in numerous schools of thought on religion and existence, and like a buffet, I sample from them all. what I learned is that it all leads to one thing: the golden rule. do unto others as you would have done unto you. and you'll lead a happy life.

 

but with all religions, they justify war and killing "in the name of". be nice, live a good life, but this guys gotta die because god said so. just doesn't compute with me. hypocrisy runs rampant as is, it doesn't need to be in religion.

 

as to the vicious circle and me mocking others faith, you're right. this was really never my intention. it was sort of a joke. truth is i'm open to new ideas. i'd love to understand how you can blindly believe something. i would. ignorance is bliss, no?

 

it seems as though most people believe whatever's convenient, in order to be at peace with themselves. everybody asks the question. religion is an easy answer for those not ready to draw up their own conclusions.

 

now spiritualism - i am very spiritual. that's an entirely different thread. and spiritualism has been removed from organized religion. the idea that we are ALL connected somehow, in ways we don't fully understand, has been silenced by most religions of the world. my 70 yr old grandmother believes that all the nice buddhists living peacefully in the mountains will go to hell for not believing the word of Christ - even though some haven't had the luxury of hearing it. seems unfair.

 

 

Thanks, I get the making sense from a lot of people. Hahahah.

 

Anyway, yes there are many theists who are motivated by fear and not by what they FEEL. Fear is just another part of hypocrisy within multiple religions. You're not trusting God with all your heart, you're just scared that you're going to burn in the lake of fire. God can see if you are truly on His side.

 

God doesn't kill people. He has no control over anything we do, we are the controllers of our mind and body. We choose what we believe is right and set out to do it and vice versa. We are the controllers of our lives. God set us here on this Earth and told us to go out on our own, but to always remember that He is our Father. We chose to say yes or no, and that's that.

 

I am glad that you are open minded, that's great. I respect you as a person.

 

I also highly respect how many of you defend your point of view, because if I said I didn't; I'd be talking shit on myself right?

[Balance]

Well that's what I was getting at. You're right that I am getting pretty far from conventional definitions of "god", but I think these definitions are up for debate anyway. The idea of "god" as defined by many religious institutions, popular superstition, Richard Dawkins, etc, meaning basically an omnipotent deity, bores me. I don't even think it's necessarily what "god" is fundamentally about. To me the idea of a religious visionary or prophet doesn't conjure up visions of some deranged lunatic raving about an imagined power in the sky. There is a Greek word anamnesis (literally "loss of forgetfulness) that I like to apply when considering the religious experience. I think visionaries - upon whom a great deal of religious tradition is based - might have simply had moments of deep spiritual feeling and ego-less clarity, in which they caught a glimpse of the infinite ineffability of sheer existence, which is yet contained within its own totality. I'll stop before I go rocketing off into the cosmos here, but hopefully you get my drift. I don't think it's a new or complex idea, really, everyone can relate to it in some way. Also I think some of Einstein's writings on the subject were very good: "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

 

exactly. bump this

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_pantheism

[nsmbfan]

^^ i like that.

 

but it does lack something.

 

the best (and possibly worst) part of organized religion is that it lays out a plan on how to live amongst people. this naturalistic pantheism seems to be an idea rather than a way of life.

 

if it didn't have all the negative connatations that go along with it, I might even consider wiccan. retarded as it may seem from the outside in, it follows a guideline that nature is powerful and deserving of our respect. and the whole "threefold" rule... whatever you do comes back to you threefold, good or bad. sounds like the golden rule to me. plus, you get to fuck your high preistess all high on drugs and booze, in a mass orgy - depending on your coven.

 

the threefold rule applies. some people call it Karma. but where i'm from we say "what goes around, comes around". or as My Name is Earl puts it, you do good things, good things happen. you do bad things, bad things happen.

 

but naturalistic pantheism seems like a guidebook to nowheresville. but maybe that's because there is nothing at the end of that tunnel, and we as humans so desperately wish for there to be something. that's why we latch onto old ideals like organized religion and monotheism.

 

who knows? well i'm sure if we all admitted to ourselves that NOBODY knows, and made the best of it, we'd stop wasting our time worshipping false idols.

[nsmbfan]

also, next topic:

 

the story of jesus christ (born on dec. 25th, died on the cross, only to rise 3 days later, adorn by 3 kings who followed the star in the east, had 12 disciples that followed him)

 

why is this story repeating itself from Horus to Dionysus to Moses to Mithra? ZeitGeist explained it as a personification of celestial events, passed down through time. what are your thoughts? discuss.

 

i am reading a "debunked" version of the movie right now on some crackpot website.

link: http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/part-one/

so far it sounds like a fundamentalist lost his shit when he seen the movie and quickly put up a "debunked" page.

 

so far, the guy goes into detail (providing sources for his claims) about how everything this movie says about the Gods of different religions having the same story, is total and complete bullshit. that this is just an anti-christian conspiracy movie. eh, maybe.

 

but then he goes into talking about how the story of Jesus was even incorrect, although we generally accept these common details to be true (being born on dec 25th, followed by three kings, etc). so if he's even correcting Christian beliefs, then what the fuck? everything we know is wrong, and Krispee Kreme really puts crack in their donuts to make them more addicting. this shit makes my head hurt.

[nsmbfan]

this is the one part of the movie that I totally identified with, and fits the context of our earlier conversations about Naturalistic Pantheism.

 

Conclusion: Religion is the One True Evil

Christianity, along with all other theistic belief systems, is the fraud of the age. It served to detach the species from the natural world, and likewise, each other. It supports blind submission to authority. It reduces human responsibility to the effect that "God" controls everything, and in turn awful crimes can be justified in the name of Divine Pursuit. And most importantly, it empowers those who know the truth but use the myth to manipulate and control societies. The religious myth is the most powerful device ever created, and serves as the psychological soil upon which other myths can flourish

 

And this is the crackpots answer to it:

 

This conclusion is obviously trying to bring the viewer to a final point. After the film maker has proven to you that all of the religions have stolen from each other, chiefly Christianity, he then goes on to lead you to the conclusion that religions are evil and support all these horrible things. While it's true religion can be bad, it can also be good for some people. If religion was created to control people and their opinions, then how can one view a film which is full of absolutely false statements about mythology, religious history, Judaism, and Christianity itself?

 

My rebuttal:

 

Because. The Bible and similar holy books ARE LITERALLY TAKEN WORD FOR WORD - some followers believing that Satan is a snake, and the power of God can protect them from the serpent (Pentacostals in particular, just one example of crazy). This type of shit is dangerous to perpetuate.

[Balance]

 

the best (and possibly worst) part of organized religion is that it lays out a plan on how to live amongst people. this naturalistic pantheism seems to be an idea rather than a way of life.

 

but naturalistic pantheism seems like a guidebook to nowheresville. but maybe that's because there is nothing at the end of that tunnel, and we as humans so desperately wish for there to be something. that's why we latch onto old ideals like organized religion and monotheism.

yeah pantheisms some dope shit, its more of a holistic in helping give meaning to life.

 

taoism is a good guiding philosophy tho, without the bullshit of monotheistic and polytheistic religions.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_Te_Ching

 

and yo the jesus thing is interesting. jesus is just a concept. the same concept that hindus have with atman, muslims with muhammad. having that concept of jesus or muhammad or god and fully realizing it and internalizing it is an incredibly profound experience. its giving a recognizable face to what people perceive as the all-encompassing divine cosmic energy, ya dig? thats like the pantheism. the moment of clarity that the dude i quoted was describing very well. comprehending that concept is an ego-reducing experience where you remove yourself from yourself in some varying degree and it allows you to see the big picture better, which is fucking beautiful man.

 

the problem is when people don't have that kind of experience or dont really understand and wrap their minds around the concept of jesus or god, and just take the bible at face value, go to church every sunday, and dont really let anything sink in, and thus they are just going through the motions of religion, which i think is really dangerous. dangerous in that it has bred our attitude towards organized religion as it is today, where catholics are absolved of sin on sunday and then go out and commit the same bullshit during the week because they think confession makes its alright. nah, thats some fucking bullshit.

[Balance]

 

read this shit. very dope. its a scientific interpretation of spirituality based off what is happening in the brain during spiritual experiences, the evolutionary explanation for why religion and belief in the supernatural has been hardwired into our brains to reduce anxiety over death and fear of non-existence like someone mentioned before, and alot of interesting existential questions and exploration. definitely check it out if you're interested in this kind of material

[ephect]

also, next topic:

 

the story of jesus christ (born on dec. 25th, died on the cross, only to rise 3 days later, adorn by 3 kings who followed the star in the east, had 12 disciples that followed him)

 

why is this story repeating itself from Horus to Dionysus to Moses to Mithra? ZeitGeist explained it as a personification of celestial events, passed down through time. what are your thoughts? discuss.

 

i am reading a "debunked" version of the movie right now on some crackpot website.

link: http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/part-one/

so far it sounds like a fundamentalist lost his shit when he seen the movie and quickly put up a "debunked" page.

 

so far, the guy goes into detail (providing sources for his claims) about how everything this movie says about the Gods of different religions having the same story, is total and complete bullshit. that this is just an anti-christian conspiracy movie. eh, maybe.

 

but then he goes into talking about how the story of Jesus was even incorrect, although we generally accept these common details to be true (being born on dec 25th, followed by three kings, etc). so if he's even correcting Christian beliefs, then what the fuck? everything we know is wrong, and Krispee Kreme really puts crack in their donuts to make them more addicting. this shit makes my head hurt.

"jesus christ" and dionysis and all that all represend amanita mushrooms

 

the red and white mushrooms..

umm, which during certain lunar (i believe) cycles, "dies" (disappears) for three days and then raises (is resurrected) again ( i forget when this happens though)

 

the "bible" and other texts pertaining to hebrew and aramaic scripture, not only had to do with history, but a lot of times were written in "code" sort of, as a way to identify mushrooms.. :)

[ephect]

here:

Jesus as a symbol of the mushroom

 

Jesus is portrayed as the Son of God, sent to fulfil the role of Messiah or 'Anointed One' - literally, 'one smeared with semen'. As a mushroom, the amanita muscaria does not disseminate seeds as plants do, but ejaculates microscopic spores which create a threadlike fungal network at the base of conifer trees from which thunderstorms elicit more mushrooms. Prior to knowledge of spores, lightning was thought to be the source of mushrooms and lightning was considered the fiery progenitive spears of God, hence the phallic fungi were called 'Sons of God'.

 

The mushroom's spore ejaculate leaves an oily film on the blood-red cap spotted with white thorns, hence the term 'Messiah' ('Anointed One') and allusions to thistle-entwined, bloody-browed sacrifices, such as the miraculous 'Ram' of Abraham (Genesis 22:13) and Jesus the thorn-crowned 'Lamb of God'.

 

'Mushrooms were also seen as "winged" creatures, or crowned by a cloudy cap or "halo", each carrying a "message" from God'

 

Mushrooms were also seen as 'winged' creatures, or crowned by a cloudy cap or 'halo', each carrying a 'message' from God, the very definition of an 'Angel'. Some mushrooms were 'good' or nutritious, some were 'evil' or poisonous, but amanita muscaria was considered 'blessed' and capable of bestowing health, strength, inspiration and the power of prognostication.

 

Ingestion of the amanita muscaria can revive the deathly ill and enables people to perform unusual feats of strength. The Gnostics used the mushroom to access 'gnosis' or 'sacred knowledge' and become privy to seeing the 'Kingdom at hand.'

 

The experience can also result in a very deep sleep, giving the appearance that the partaker has died, only to be 'resurrected' as the effect wears off. The decaying mushroom smells like rotting flesh thus attracting flies, hence another term for the mushroom, 'fly agaric'. Flies seem to die on contact with the mushroom, but if observed for a period of about 12 hours, however, the insects experience 'resurrection' and fly away.

 

As John Allegro points out, the 'Cross' is merely the cuneiform symbol of the mushroom, just as the 'Asclepius', or snake-entwined staff topped by a winged disc found on nearly all medical facilities, is also just an ancient symbol of the mushroom.

 

 

from http://www.iamshaman.com/amanita/jesus.htm