lord_casek Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 I didn't say that I have fights in bars, I personally have never had to have a fight in a bar, but if someone was fucking with my wife and hassling her and things got to the stage where a fight broke out, it should be handled properly and not with weapons. I am a very peaceful person I don't get drunk and aggressive I tend to chill at home and get stoned with my wife and have quiet evenings. But sadly, some people do go out looking for fights and if one of them started something with me I would rather it be dealt with fists, and not have to worry about some idiot who has legally or illegally be given a gun which has upped his bravado to where he thinks it is fine to go around starting fights. No firearm owners I know would whip out their gun for a fistfight. Guns are made to kill people. Smart firearms owners avoid fighting at all costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Oh I agree Casek a responsible gun owner wouldn't whip out a gun - sadly there are gun owners that would - mainly illegal gun owners to be fair lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Oh I agree Casek a responsible gun owner wouldn't whip out a gun - sadly there are gun owners that would - mainly illegal gun owners to be fair lol Illegal owners are already criminals in most cases. I would expect nothing less. Check this group out Decyferon http://gunowners.org/ And this one http://www.appleseedinfo.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeRVe54 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 If WE can't have guns, who SHOULD have them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The first gun laws were put into place so that robber barons could rob civilians without any sort of defense. That's all you need to know about gun control. Isn't worrying about someone starting a fight with you at a bar and potentially pulling his gun out and killing you over something stupid. Just as solid as an excuse for gun control as me wanting to potentially be able to protect my family and self from some "nut job" that came to rob my house? I mean seriously. The argument to keep guns out of law abiding citizens hands would be the exact reason that guy would kill you in the bar. Because you a law abiding citizen would be following the law and you would have no means to defend yourself. This is also about checks and balances. Just as our government was constructed so that one branch could not take control or dominate another we as civilians need to have if necessary a way in which we can check the powers that be. And this is what these laws are about, removing that check. A gun free world would just be a world where the military's and the police forces of the world controlled all of the weapons. Sure it would be great if all weapons could be loaded onto some sort of barge and launched into space. However this will never happen and to try to create that fantasy world is insanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twonpoo Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The first gun laws were put into place so that robber barons could rob civilians without any sort of defense. That's all you need to know about gun control. Isn't worrying about someone starting a fight with you at a bar and potentially pulling his gun out and killing you over something stupid. Just as solid as an excuse for gun control as me wanting to potentially be able to protect my family and self from some "nut job" that came to rob my house? I mean seriously. The argument to keep guns out of law abiding citizens hands would be the exact reason that guy would kill you in the bar. Because you a law abiding citizen would be following the law and you would have no means to defend yourself. This is also about checks and balances. Just as our government was constructed so that one branch could not take control or dominate another we as civilians need to have if necessary a way in which we can check the powers that be. And this is what these laws are about, removing that check. A gun free world would just be a world where the military's and the police forces of the world controlled all of the weapons. Sure it would be great if all weapons could be loaded onto some sort of barge and launched into space. However this will never happen and to try to create that fantasy world is insanity. youre the man. kudos my friend. you said everyhthing i couldnt at 7 am the other day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeRVe54 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The first gun laws were put into place so that robber barons could rob civilians without any sort of defense. That's all you need to know about gun control. Isn't worrying about someone starting a fight with you at a bar and potentially pulling his gun out and killing you over something stupid. Just as solid as an excuse for gun control as me wanting to potentially be able to protect my family and self from some "nut job" that came to rob my house? I mean seriously. The argument to keep guns out of law abiding citizens hands would be the exact reason that guy would kill you in the bar. Because you a law abiding citizen would be following the law and you would have no means to defend yourself. This is also about checks and balances. Just as our government was constructed so that one branch could not take control or dominate another we as civilians need to have if necessary a way in which we can check the powers that be. And this is what these laws are about, removing that check. A gun free world would just be a world where the military's and the police forces of the world controlled all of the weapons. Sure it would be great if all weapons could be loaded onto some sort of barge and launched into space. However this will never happen and to try to create that fantasy world is insanity. Agreed on all points except the fact that our guns are laughable in the face of TPTB. Example: http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2004/11/29/daily30.html Nevertheless, I'm happier armed then not. In the event that I need to fight for my life and liberty I would rather know that I had the means to do so. I don't trust the government, so it simply makes no sense to allow them to remain armed in the hopes that they have our best intentions in mind at all times (which is laughable). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x5v1s Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 an armed society is a polite society Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twonpoo Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 an armed society is a polite society werd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.hopeless. Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Why the hell should I have to fight someone anyway? Stop walkin around trying to be a tough guy. And for the record, just because I own a gun, doesn't mean Im out to kill someone. But if you're planning on putting my life in threat, Im shootin your ass. But if me owning a gun keeps your insecure ass from flexxin your in public alpha male moncheezmo ass from starting a fight, and maybe acting mature and being cool for fear you might actually catch a bullet, then the gun kept your ass in check and no one even got shot. Gun don't kill people, unless youre too stupid to think a bullet won't kill you. If youre aware of what the bullet can do, then youll be a calm as a priest, trust me. first off id like to clarify.i am 100% for guns.i think people should have the right to own guns and if you read my other posts you might have seen that.and i dont understand where your getting super alpha male machismo bullshit from either.becuase im not at all like that.anyways what i was trying to say is that too many people want to resolve their problems with guns instead of actually going out and trying to A. talk it out like normal fucking human being or B. fighting if it comes down to that.no some people nowadays(not all of them.most gun owners are pretty nice people and those arent who im talking about) want to pull guns becuase it automatically gives you an upper hand and makes you the badass in charge.the majority of the people that own guns dont own them for this reason but there is a percentage that do who fuck it up for everyone else by wanting to pop shit off whenever they have a problem with someone instead of squaring up or whatever.and what you said about pulling on people who want to start shit with you or want to fight you isnt the way to go.your escalating the violence unnecessarily.if he tries to pull a weapon on you by all means go for it but if not fight him.fuck it.its irresponsible and frankly a good way to either get locked for pulling a gun on someone or getting caught slipping in a parking lot later on.guns should be used when necessary not everytime someone tries to punk you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Well, that's what you get for being fat, I guess. Gun advocate shot by husband October 11, 2009 - 4:04PM Meleanie Hain. A soccer mum who gained notoriety for openly carrying a loaded pistol to youth sports events has been fatally shot by her husband as she video-chatted with a friend, authorities say. Scott Hain used his own gun to fire several shots into his 30-year-old wife, Meleanie, while her video chat was active and perhaps as she washed dishes in their kitchen, police said. Scott Hain, 33, later killed himself in an upstairs bedroom. Meleanie Hain's loaded pistol - with a bullet ready in the chamber - was in a backpack hanging from the front door. The couple's three young children were home just before the murder-suicide, but authorities stopped short of saying they were home at the time. The online friend heard a scream and turned to see Scott Hain firing, they said. He "observed Scott Hain standing over where Meleanie was and discharging a handgun several times", Lebanon Police Chief Daniel Wright said at a news conference. The man, who was described as a friend of both Scott and Meleanie Hains, called emergency police. Meleanie Hain became a voice of the gun-rights movement last year when she fought for the right to carry a holstered pistol at her young daughter's soccer games. Other parents complained, prompting a sheriff to revoke her concealed-weapons permit, a decision a judge later overturned. "I'm just a soccer mom who has always openly carried (a firearm), and I've never had a problem before," Hain said last autumn. "I don't understand why this is happening to me." The Hains later sued the sheriff who had revoked her open-weapons permit. The $US1 million ($A1.1 million) suit, which claims they suffered emotional distress and lost customers for her home baby-sitting service, remains pending against Lebanon County Sheriff Michael DeLeo. Scott Hain, a parole officer, owned the 9mm handgun used to kill his wife. He then killed himself with a shotgun. Police found several handguns, a shotgun, two rifles and several hundred rounds of ammunition in their Lebanon home. Friends and neighbours told police the couple had been having marital problems. However, Scott Hain was living at the home at the time, Wright said. Their three children are ages two, six and 10. Neighbour Aileen Fortna has said the children told another neighbour that "daddy shot mommy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 The first gun laws were put into place so that robber barons could rob civilians without any sort of defense. That's all you need to know about gun control. Isn't worrying about someone starting a fight with you at a bar and potentially pulling his gun out and killing you over something stupid. Just as solid as an excuse for gun control as me wanting to potentially be able to protect my family and self from some "nut job" that came to rob my house? I mean seriously. The argument to keep guns out of law abiding citizens hands would be the exact reason that guy would kill you in the bar. Because you a law abiding citizen would be following the law and you would have no means to defend yourself. This is also about checks and balances. Just as our government was constructed so that one branch could not take control or dominate another we as civilians need to have if necessary a way in which we can check the powers that be. And this is what these laws are about, removing that check. A gun free world would just be a world where the military's and the police forces of the world controlled all of the weapons. Sure it would be great if all weapons could be loaded onto some sort of barge and launched into space. However this will never happen and to try to create that fantasy world is insanity. I don't think anyone should be allowed a gun in a bar, jesus that's just asking for trouble, a drunken arguement that spirals out of control, just seems pointless. The problem is that America has always had guns, you guys don't see it any differently. Yes criminals in the UK have guns, but they only use them for high crimes, hell most muggings, robberies etc no firearms are involved. We have barely any shootings (we do have some) and if someone ever started a fight with me in a pub or whereever I would never have to worry about them carrying a gun, illegal or legal, and that to me is a safer society to be in than one where I might get shot for wearing my favourite red tshirt, or a new pair of trainers. I understand why Americans want their right to bear arms, but it is also weighed up against a shitload of negatives, such as the problems with gun crime in your cities and the stupid amount of deaths relating to guns you have as well. I just wish that Americans could see why other coutries see it as so strange that a nation wants to arm itself to the teeth, as a country, traditionally you have been very untrusting of outsiders, if someone has a socialist value they are a commie, all your political system seems to just breed paranoia in its citizens. I know you think guns are to stop the tyranny of government, but it hasn't done anything to stop the tyranny that your government has been involved in over the last decade or so, so why has no one stood up to the government yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I don't think anyone should be allowed a gun in a bar, jesus that's just asking for trouble, a drunken arguement that spirals out of control, just seems pointless. The problem is that America has always had guns, you guys don't see it any differently. Yes criminals in the UK have guns, but they only use them for high crimes, hell most muggings, robberies etc no firearms are involved. We have barely any shootings (we do have some) and if someone ever started a fight with me in a pub or whereever I would never have to worry about them carrying a gun, illegal or legal, and that to me is a safer society to be in than one where I might get shot for wearing my favourite red tshirt, or a new pair of trainers. I understand why Americans want their right to bear arms, but it is also weighed up against a shitload of negatives, such as the problems with gun crime in your cities and the stupid amount of deaths relating to guns you have as well. I just wish that Americans could see why other coutries see it as so strange that a nation wants to arm itself to the teeth, as a country, traditionally you have been very untrusting of outsiders, if someone has a socialist value they are a commie, all your political system seems to just breed paranoia in its citizens. I know you think guns are to stop the tyranny of government, but it hasn't done anything to stop the tyranny that your government has been involved in over the last decade or so, so why has no one stood up to the government yet? Well I only brought up the bar example because it was something I thought you had used as defense for your argument of complete disarmament of society. It wasn't something that I came up with on the fly to help me defend my stance. All of the things that you talked about could be cured with a better education system, and if the drug war ended I'm pretty sure you would see a lot of gun violence decrease dramatically all over the country. I guess those last two issues are for another discussion. I do think they play a BIG part in why gun violence is as bad as it is. ____ "Neighbour Aileen Fortna has said the children told another neighbour that "daddy shot mommy." My favorite part of that article. I mean because it's so necessary. I wonder how I am supposed to feel after that one. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Oops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I agree, better education, regeneration of poorer areas, a change in drugs policy would help create a better environment, but I think the problem with guns is they are now so deep rooted in America and American society that it won't ever change unless something drastic happens. I did use the bar argument only to have a situation where there is a confrontation, but could just as easily have been a dispute over a car parking space, it was meant as a frivilous situation where people shouldn't be fighting with fists let alone pulling guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 " I know you think guns are to stop the tyranny of government, but it hasn't done anything to stop the tyranny that your government has been involved in over the last decade or so, so why has no one stood up to the government yet?" you are correct. i think the guns should of been brought back out in response to the passing of the constitution. the infringements on liberty were brought on slowly. the frog and boiling water analogy. if obama started rounding up people and putting them on boxcars and sending them to work camps, is about the only time the second amendment would be put into action. i still think most americans would just be waving flags at the tanks that are rolling down their town squares. pussies. complacent. apathy. men with out back bones. and women that put up with it. this is america. people are used to it. they dont want freedom, they want security. they want hand outs. they want free healthcare. they dont want liberty and responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I do think freedom is thrown out like a buzzword you in America are free just like us in the uk are free we have our freedoms none of our goverments are proposing or have ever proposed ruling like say the Chinese or north Koreans, so I can see why Americans are more concerned with security Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonsOfSulkendastron Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 the people who want to commit crimes with firearms ARE GOING to acquire them. Taking away guns from everyone who is legally/mentally capable of owning them is a ridiculous concept. And as far as the "only assault weapons" argument....umm......what? absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewind Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Funny that in countries where firearms are completely illegal, there they are most abundant and violently used. City of God anyone? I'm all for the 2nd amendment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 There is nothing to back up that statement, they are illegal here and we have nowhere near as much gun crime as in the US 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Feast Island Man Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Funny that in countries where firearms are completely illegal, there they are most abundant and violently used. City of God anyone? firearms aren't completely illegal in brazil in fact the country voted against a complete ban a few years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyMind Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I can understand why people may want a gun, i understand that, I just think it is fucking stupid to legally be able to own guns such as AK47s and those kind of weapons, if you want to hunt have a rifle, if you want a gun at home to defend yourself have a handgun I am very glad I live in a country where not every nutjob/junkie is able to arm themseves to the teeth There is nothing to back up that statement, they are illegal here and we have nowhere near as much gun crime as in the US Sorry to jump into this discussion. I haven't really read much of it but saw these posts from Decyferon. Something I found out recently is that up until 1988 you were legally entitled to own a huge range of firearms in the UK, including assault rifles. The Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 extended the list of prohibited weapons to include: "fully automatic firearms, rifles other than those chambered for .22 rimfire ammunition, smoothbore guns other than those chambered for .22 rimfire and with a barrel more than 24 inches in length, smoothbore revolvers other than muzzle-loaders or one chambered for 9mm rimfire ammunition, and finally any rocket-launcher or mortar which fired a stabilised missile. It also prohibited exploding ammunition, as well as ammunition containing noxious substances and any form of grenade or shell designed to be projected from a firearm." This legislation was put into place following the Hungerford Massacre and the rest of handguns were banned after Dunblane, but it shocked me to find out that these things were available before that. The Hungerford guy had a lot of weapons including: The point I really wanted to make though is that while these two events were terrible, Britain has never been known for gun crime and all that time a wide range were available to the general public. In fact it's only been recently that it's really become a fairly significant problem (I think it peaked around 03). It's not guns that are the problem for the most part, it's the mindset behind them. I mean, every male in Switzerland between 20 and 30 has to have one of these at home by law: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Yea I remember the Hungerford massacre, thing is even when you had legal firearms (and we still do, plenty of people go shooting) they aren't exactly easy to get hold of, and the law is much stricter now. I agree the problem isn't the guns themselves, they don't fire themselves, it is the morons that can't responsibly own them that are the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyMind Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 thing is even when you had legal firearms they aren't exactly easy to get hold of, and the law is much stricter now. I don't think it's particularly easy to legally acquire assault type rifles in the US either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 I don't think it's particularly easy to legally acquire assault type rifles in the US either. Yes it is. "Assault Rifle" is wrong. You can assault anyone with any type of gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Funny that in countries where firearms are completely illegal, there they are most abundant and violently used. City of God anyone? I'm all for the 2nd amendment. Ha! You're an idiot. China has 1.3 billion people, some of the most strict gun laws in the world and VERY few firearms and firearm crime. [Not talking about freedom, etc., just responding to that ridiculous statement above] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I don't think it's particularly easy to legally acquire assault type rifles in the US either. depends on the state, some states have stupidly relaxed gun laws and guns are very easy to get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 im curious if you actually know, decyferon, what the steps are to buy an 'assault' weapon are in the US and what the current laws are and how crime has changed from when guns were much more available... and i'd like to hear what exactly enough gun control is, and what laws you'd like to see past in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Well to some extent I do, I know you need to have background checks done and then have a kind of wait period before you can get the gun, but I am no expert, I would be the first to admit it. I did watch a couple of documentaries (and read some articles you linked to me) and I know it does vary from state to state, with some places being a lot more strict than others. Being that I have a strong anti gun stance I don't really see why anyone would need a gun, obviously in America you guys have had guns for so long that it owuld be impossible to get rid of them so that is an avenue that isn't worth persuing, however I do see why Americans would feel the need to own a gun because almost everyone else has them!! If you have ever been convicted of a crime you should not be allowed to own a gun until having gone through some kind of schooling system and then you need to account for your gun usage. If you have ever been convicted of any violent crimes then you should forfeit your right to ever own a gun. If you have a gun it should be locked away in a secure environment, a lot of illegal guns on american streets are stolen during home invasions, if those guns were safely locked away then they wouldn't now be on the streets. But it is a pointless arguement, America has a gun history and will continue to have guns. There is no way they can be taken away from you, even if the government tried they wouldnt get them all, so it is pointless. I would certainly fight against them introducing gun legislation similar to the US's in the UK. I can see why people would have a rifle to hunt or protect their homes, my main problem is with people being able to buy completely overpowered weaponary that is complete overkill. To have a gun that fires hungreads of rounds a minute isn't gonna help you hunt it is just there to kill people. I would just rather live somehwere that guns weren't so available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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