Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
lord_casek

Obama: The New George Bush

Recommended Posts

Obama accepts Nobel prize, claims afghanistan war is 'just and necessary'

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/10/obama-nobel-peace-war-afghanistan

 

"That is a source of our strength. That is why I prohibited torture. That is why I ordered the prison at Guantánamo Bay closed. And that is why I have reaffirmed America's commitment to abide by the Geneva Conventions," he said.

 

But isn't it still open Obama??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^ yup

 

BUT... you know, he inherited this and you know well, the war, well, he never campaigned on any of that ending the war stuff, and and and... and....

 

obama reminds me of bush when he said ...'mission accomplished' about iraq.

the economy is 'fixed.' mission accomplished! look at unemployment! im am teh godsz bow before me boy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know I have stated that I do like Obama as a person/leader but it doesn't mean I am oblivious to the fact he is still a politician who lies. If anything he has to work harder to prove the naysayers wrong but he just isn't doing it.

 

I find it amazing when people put such blind faith in someone that is in a profession that is inheritantly based on lies and manipulation.

 

I still think he was the best choice for America in the last election because I think if McCain/Palin had won the reputation of the US would be much worse, but he really isn't doing himself any favours in the way he has dealt with these big issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We need to pull ALL of our troops out from over seas, Get rid of NAFTA, Raise tariffs, reduce corporate tax, create a flat tax, bring industry and manufacturing back to this country, get rid of the EPA, get rid of the unions, fire all the damn bureaucrats in Washington, get rid of all the New Deal and Great Society programs, and get this fucking country running again. fuck Obama and all them dickheads in Washington. Fucking overpaid, rich cunt sucking, power monger assholes...they are

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see anything wrong with unions, employees need someone to look out for their interests and need a way to mediate between employee and business, although unions are pretty much useless nowadays.

 

However I don't know how the unions are in the US in comparison to here, they are quite handy here. Quite recently my wife had problems at work where the company was trying to screw her over, they were completely in the wrong and without the support of the union she would have lost her job. If she had had to employ a private lawyer to deal with the issue then it would have cost hundreds if not thousands to do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i gotta back soakers post.

 

theoretically there can be, in my view, the view of an individualist, a legitimate union.

the problem comes when you get a wagner act or taft hartley act or similar legislation, which force employers to work with unions. would it be right if we forced employees to work for certain companies? that is what labor legislation does, it forces employers to work with unions when they may or may not want to, on their employers own property.

 

unions have the legal 'right' to form, force the employer to deal with this collective, quit or refuse to work, and stop competition from taking their positions. its no different than you getting a divorce. but you walk around outside of your house picketing and when a guy comes to go on a date with your ex wife, you beat the hell out of him.

 

legitimately, unions could work, if they limited themselves to en masse quits. if you have a right to work, you have a right to quit, (barring contractual obligations) and if you have a right to quit, you ALL (employees) have a right to quit. but the moment you start beating up scabs, passing silly labor legislation by your political arm, you are no longer operating within the frame work of a free society.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I don't agree with the intimidation and tactics used on picket lines, I believe that workers have the right to work if they want and shouldn't be bullied into the mob mentality, I still think that a union is a good thing to have. Someone needs to protect the rights of the workforce otherwise the company can dictate unfair labour terms and bully the workforce.

 

In the instance of my wife, she would have been fired on unfair grounds if she hadn't of complained to the union and they mediated between her and the company and backed her through the process, the company was entirely in the wrong and without their help she would have been screwed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I know I have stated that I do like Obama as a person/leader but it doesn't mean I am oblivious to the fact he is still a politician who lies. If anything he has to work harder to prove the naysayers wrong but he just isn't doing it.

 

I find it amazing when people put such blind faith in someone that is in a profession that is inheritantly based on lies and manipulation.

 

Dude, in this thread you're only allowed to hate Obama or blindly love and support every decision he makes. Nothing in between. Stop having such a realistic opinion.

 

And who are all these people who put blind faith in our politicians? I sure haven't met many of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
^^ yup

 

BUT... you know, he inherited this and you know well, the war, well, he never campaigned on any of that ending the war stuff, and and and... and....

 

obama reminds me of bush when he said ...'mission accomplished' about iraq.

the economy is 'fixed.' mission accomplished! look at unemployment! im am teh godsz bow before me boy!

 

comic-book-guy.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
While I don't agree with the intimidation and tactics used on picket lines, I believe that workers have the right to work if they want and shouldn't be bullied into the mob mentality, I still think that a union is a good thing to have. Someone needs to protect the rights of the workforce otherwise the company can dictate unfair labour terms and bully the workforce.

 

In the instance of my wife, she would have been fired on unfair grounds if she hadn't of complained to the union and they mediated between her and the company and backed her through the process, the company was entirely in the wrong and without their help she would have been screwed.

 

sure, unions benefit members in alot of areas... like making much more than a worker in the 'normal' work force.

unions operate as a cartel. their sole economic purpose is to limit the labor force to increase the wages of the union workers. which is why clerks at the post office make 75K a year and drive bmw's running a cash register all day yet the store next door has clerks making 15-20K a year driving a hyundai doing almost the exact same job.

 

its no different than if the govt passed a law saying you had to buy shoes made by a certain manufacturer at a certain price. it is essentially legalized govt protected price fixing and coercion.

 

public sector unions are hilarious to me. the govt is supposed to be this benevolent master, yet all govt workers have these unions to 'fight for their interests.'

 

from the perspective of liberty, a union is only legitimate if it limits its self to en masse quits. when they force the employers to work with them, (which they all do)this is no legitimate. to put it simply, if i hire a landscape company to take care of my yard, we agree on a price and all the details, shake on it and they do the job and i pay them. but its not legitimate if the landscapers come on my property, tell me i am not paying them enough, get a law passed making me still work with this company, and compel me to pay them 3 times as much, provide lunch for them and give them health insurance. in the free market, if the landscape company doesnt like the terms, they leave. if i dont like the terms, they leave. you cant have the non property owner force the property owner to do anything, such as unions do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Libertarian perspective is so hated around these parts. It's like the ideology offends so many people.

 

Taking care of YOURSELF, OMG!

 

I could post excerpts from books or some other articles explaining how Unions are bad to support the case. But we wouldn't be down with the "collective interest of the people". Whatever the fuck that means.

 

So many groups of people want so many different things it's basically impossible to please them all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last Union I worked for was a waste of time and was basically a monopoly composed of medium sized businesses that had the industry by the balls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Platform

National Platform of the Libertarian Party

 

Adopted in Convention, May 2008, Denver, Colorado

 

Preamble

 

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

 

We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.

 

Consequently, we defend each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power.

 

In the following pages we have set forth our basic principles and enumerated various policy stands derived from those principles.

 

These specific policies are not our goal, however. Our goal is nothing more nor less than a world set free in our lifetime, and it is to this end that we take these stands.

 

Statement of Principles

 

We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual.

 

We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

 

Governments throughout history have regularly operated on the opposite principle, that the State has the right to dispose of the lives of individuals and the fruits of their labor. Even within the United States, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent.

 

We, on the contrary, deny the right of any government to do these things, and hold that where governments exist, they must not violate the rights of any individual: namely, (1) the right to life -- accordingly we support the prohibition of the initiation of physical force against others; (2) the right to liberty of speech and action -- accordingly we oppose all attempts by government to abridge the freedom of speech and press, as well as government censorship in any form; and (3) the right to property -- accordingly we oppose all government interference with private property, such as confiscation, nationalization, and eminent domain, and support the prohibition of robbery, trespass, fraud, and misrepresentation.

 

Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.

 

1.0 Personal Liberty

 

Individuals should be free to make choices for themselves and to accept responsibility for the consequences of the choices they make. No individual, group, or government may initiate force against any other individual, group, or government. Our support of an individual's right to make choices in life does not mean that we necessarily approve or disapprove of those choices.

 

1.1 Expression and Communication

 

We support full freedom of expression and oppose government censorship, regulation or control of communications media and technology. We favor the freedom to engage in or abstain from any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others. We oppose government actions which either aid or attack any religion.

 

1.2 Personal Privacy

 

We support the protections provided by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons, homes, and property. Only actions that infringe on the rights of others can properly be termed crimes. We favor the repeal of all laws creating "crimes" without victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes.

 

1.3 Personal Relationships

 

Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the rights of individuals by government, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration or military service laws. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships. Government does not have the authority to define, license or restrict personal relationships.

 

1.4 Abortion

 

Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.

 

1.5 Crime and Justice

 

Government exists to protect the rights of every individual including life, liberty and property. Criminal laws should be limited to violation of the rights of others through force or fraud, or deliberate actions that place others involuntarily at significant risk of harm. Individuals retain the right to voluntarily assume risk of harm to themselves. We support restitution of the victim to the fullest degree possible at the expense of the criminal or the negligent wrongdoer. We oppose reduction of constitutional safeguards of the rights of the criminally accused. The rights of due process, a speedy trial, legal counsel, trial by jury, and the legal presumption of innocence until proven guilty, must not be denied. We assert the common-law right of juries to judge not only the facts but also the justice of the law.

 

1.6 Self-Defense

 

The only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights — life, liberty, and justly acquired property — against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by any other individual or group. We affirm the right to keep and bear arms, and oppose the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense. We oppose all laws at any level of government requiring registration of, or restricting, the ownership, manufacture, or transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition.

 

2.0 Economic Liberty

 

A free and competitive market allocates resources in the most efficient manner. Each person has the right to offer goods and services to others on the free market. The only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society.

 

 

2.1 Property and Contract

 

Property rights are entitled to the same protection as all other human rights. The owners of property have the full right to control, use, dispose of, or in any manner enjoy, their property without interference, until and unless the exercise of their control infringes the valid rights of others. We oppose all controls on wages, prices, rents, profits, production, and interest rates. We advocate the repeal of all laws banning or restricting the advertising of prices, products, or services. We oppose all violations of the right to private property, liberty of contract, and freedom of trade. The right to trade includes the right not to trade — for any reasons whatsoever. Where property, including land, has been taken from its rightful owners by the government or private action in violation of individual rights, we favor restitution to the rightful owners.

 

2.2 Environment

 

We support a clean and healthy environment and sensible use of our natural resources. Private landowners and conservation groups have a vested interest in maintaining natural resources. Pollution and misuse of resources cause damage to our ecosystem. Governments, unlike private businesses, are unaccountable for such damage done to our environment and have a terrible track record when it comes to environmental protection. Protecting the environment requires a clear definition and enforcement of individual rights in resources like land, water, air, and wildlife. Free markets and property rights stimulate the technological innovations and behavioral changes required to protect our environment and ecosystems. We realize that our planet's climate is constantly changing, but environmental advocates and social pressure are the most effective means of changing public behavior.

 

2.3 Energy and Resources

 

While energy is needed to fuel a modern society, government should not be subsidizing any particular form of energy. We oppose all government control of energy pricing, allocation, and production.

 

2.4 Government Finance and Spending

 

All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We oppose any legal requirements forcing employers to serve as tax collectors. Government should not incur debt, which burdens future generations without their consent. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes.

 

2.5 Money and Financial Markets

 

We favor free-market banking, with unrestricted competition among banks and depository institutions of all types. Individuals engaged in voluntary exchange should be free to use as money any mutually agreeable commodity or item. We support a halt to inflationary monetary policies, the repeal of legal tender laws and compulsory governmental units of account.

 

 

2.6 Monopolies and Corporations

 

We defend the right of individuals to form corporations, cooperatives and other types of companies based on voluntary association. We seek to divest government of all functions that can be provided by non-governmental organizations or private individuals. We oppose government subsidies to business, labor, or any other special interest. Industries should be governed by free markets.

 

2.7 Labor Markets

 

We support repeal of all laws which impede the ability of any person to find employment. We oppose government-fostered forced retirement. We support the right of free persons to associate or not associate in labor unions, and an employer should have the right to recognize or refuse to recognize a union. We oppose government interference in bargaining, such as compulsory arbitration or imposing an obligation to bargain.

 

2.8 Education

 

Education, like any other service, is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Schools should be managed locally to achieve greater accountability and parental involvement. Recognizing that the education of children is inextricably linked to moral values, we would return authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government. In particular, parents should have control of and responsibility for all funds expended for their children's education.

 

 

2.9 Health Care

 

We favor restoring and reviving a free market health care system. We recognize the freedom of individuals to determine the level of health insurance they want, the level of health care they want, the care providers they want, the medicines and treatments they will use and all other aspects of their medical care, including end-of-life decisions.

 

 

2.10 Retirement and Income Security

 

Retirement planning is the responsibility of the individual, not the government. We favor replacing the current government-sponsored Social Security system with a private voluntary system. The proper source of help for the poor is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.

 

3.0 Securing Liberty

 

The protection of individual rights is the only proper purpose of government. Government is constitutionally limited so as to prevent the infringement of individual rights by the government itself. The principle of non-initiation of force should guide the relationships between governments.

 

3.1 National Defense

 

We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression. The United States should both abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world and avoid entangling alliances. We oppose any form of compulsory national service.

 

3.2 Internal Security and Individual Rights

 

The defense of the country requires that we have adequate intelligence to detect and to counter threats to domestic security. This requirement must not take priority over maintaining the civil liberties of our citizens. The Bill of Rights provides no exceptions for a time of war. Intelligence agencies that legitimately seek to preserve the security of the nation must be subject to oversight and transparency. We oppose the government's use of secret classifications to keep from the public information that it should have, especially that which shows that the government has violated the law.

 

3.3 International Affairs

 

American foreign policy should seek an America at peace with the world and its defense against attack from abroad. We would end the current U.S. government policy of foreign intervention, including military and economic aid. We recognize the right of all people to resist tyranny and defend themselves and their rights. We condemn the use of force, and especially the use of terrorism, against the innocent, regardless of whether such acts are committed by governments or by political or revolutionary groups.

 

3.4 Free Trade and Migration

 

We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a threat to security, health or property.

 

 

3.5 Rights and Discrimination

 

We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should not deny or abridge any individual's rights based on sex, wealth, race, color, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation. Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs.

 

3.6 Representative Government

 

We support electoral systems that are more representative of the electorate at the federal, state and local levels. As private voluntary groups, political parties should be allowed to establish their own rules for nomination procedures, primaries and conventions. We call for an end to any tax-financed subsidies to candidates or parties and the repeal of all laws which restrict voluntary financing of election campaigns. We oppose laws that effectively exclude alternative candidates and parties, deny ballot access, gerrymander districts, or deny the voters their right to consider all legitimate alternatives.

 

 

3.7 Self-Determination

 

Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of individual liberty, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to agree to such new governance as to them shall seem most likely to protect their liberty.

 

4.0 Omissions

 

Our silence about any other particular government law, regulation, ordinance, directive, edict, control, regulatory agency, activity, or machination should not be construed to imply approval.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you know when fascism or corruption is at its peak when they try to front like there is none.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Register for a 12ozProphet forum account or sign in to comment

You need to be a forum member in order to comment. Forum accounts are separate from shop accounts.

Create an account

Register to become a 12ozProphet forum member.

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×