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Obama: The New George Bush


lord_casek

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What is even worse about him becoming the first President to talk to the ladies of "The View." He missed out on another historic occasion -- the Boy Scouts' Jamboree marking the group's 100th anniversary, right in the president's backyard.

 

The Jamboree kicked off this week at Fort A.P. Hill in Virginia, where organizers had invited the president to speak to the 45,000 scouts in attendance. All three of Obama's predecessors have made it to one Jamboree while in office. Obama is an embarrassment to our country.

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oh for christ sake,. you people are fucking morans.

 

some peoples views will never change, no point considering it really. Personally I don't see why people get so butthurt over him, he didn't promise to change the world or anything, he has policies he wants in play but can't get them through, it was all the media hype and fans/haters of Obama that create so much drama.

 

You have Obama supporters that think he is the re-rising of Jesus - they are idiots

 

You have the Obama haters that think he wants to turn America into some communist totalitarian dictatorship - these people are also idiot

 

Edit - what it comes down to is that is that he is a politician that has to tread a balance between trying to get policies he wants in place along with the balance act of sustaining already in place policies/initiatives, not to mention trying to get through a bad economic situation alongside existing wars and all that crap

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i can't believe nobody caught the "moran" part of it.

 

 

WHO THE HELL SAW WHAT I DID THERE?!!! EHH? EHHHH?

 

 

decy- yup

 

I saw it, sorry about not commenting on it.

 

 

Here's that article I was talking about this morning:

 

White House proposal would ease FBI access to records of Internet activity

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/28/AR2010072806141.html

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some peoples views will never change, no point considering it really. Personally I don't see why people get so butthurt over him, he didn't promise to change the world or anything, he has policies he wants in play but can't get them through, it was all the media hype and fans/haters of Obama that create so much drama.

 

You have Obama supporters that think he is the re-rising of Jesus - they are idiots

 

You have the Obama haters that think he wants to turn America into some communist totalitarian dictatorship - these people are also idiot

 

Edit - what it comes down to is that is that he is a politician that has to tread a balance between trying to get policies he wants in place along with the balance act of sustaining already in place policies/initiatives, not to mention trying to get through a bad economic situation alongside existing wars and all that crap

 

So what you're saying here is, that Bush is still to blame for everything?

 

Because Obama does have power that he himself can use that could make major changes in the direction we are going. He doesn't use his power. In fact, he is escalating the war on terror. He in no way is attempting to get the rights of the people back to them, and in very few area's is he actually applying his campaign slogan of "change".

 

What he is doing is, consolidating power to the government. He did this with the Auto, Medical and Financial industries. Does this mean he is going to be the next Adolf Hitler? I don't know, I can't see the future. Are those things socialist in nature? Absolutely. Denying such is your own ignorance at work.

 

BTW: Moran's will always be funny.

 

One more thing, people are extremely emotional about their leader(s) because they control how they live their lives on the day to day. So, that's why people are "butt hurt". As far as changing the world. No. Changing America, yes.

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So what you're saying here is, that Bush is still to blame for everything?

 

Because Obama does have power that he himself can use that could make major changes in the direction we are going. He doesn't use his power. In fact, he is escalating the war on terror. He in no way is attempting to get the rights of the people back to them, and in very few area's is he actually applying his campaign slogan of "change".

 

What he is doing is, consolidating power to the government. He did this with the Auto, Medical and Financial industries. Does this mean he is going to be the next Adolf Hitler? I don't know, I can't see the future. Are those things socialist in nature? Absolutely. Denying such is your own ignorance at work.

 

BTW: Moran's will always be funny.

 

One more thing, people are extremely emotional about their leader(s) because they control how they live their lives on the day to day. So, that's why people are "butt hurt". As far as changing the world. No. Changing America, yes.

 

nope I never said that Bush is still to blame for everything, I just think these people that blame Obama for everything don't really look at the real picture, there is only such much that can be done, so what if some of the policies have a socialist nature, it doesn't mean America is being turned into a commie country or anything like that, that is just right wing scare tactics, it isn't like the way things were previously running in America were working so why not try something different.

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nope I never said that Bush is still to blame for everything, I just think these people that blame Obama for everything don't really look at the real picture, there is only such much that can be done, so what if some of the policies have a socialist nature, it doesn't mean America is being turned into a commie country or anything like that, that is just right wing scare tactics, it isn't like the way things were previously running in America were working so why not try something different.

 

What about the rights of every day citizen's being stripped away from us that were given to us through the Constitution? All while more and more power is being distributed to the Executive branch of the U.S. government.

 

All of this tie's together, and it has been going on long before Obama has showed up onto the scene. It isn't about him, he's just the guy in "charge" at the moment.

 

Scare tactics are certainly being used, and it is on both ends. You keep looking at the left and right though, which is silly. Both "teams" are playing for the same side.

 

Try something different? Nothing that is being incorporated into how things are done here are "new". Socialism isn't "new". This is a new day, but these measure's are not new by any means.

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What about the rights of every day citizen's being stripped away from us that were given to us through the Constitution? All while more and more power is being distributed to the Executive branch of the U.S. government.

 

All of this tie's together, and it has been going on long before Obama has showed up onto the scene. It isn't about him, he's just the guy in "charge" at the moment.

 

Scare tactics are certainly being used, and it is on both ends. You keep looking at the left and right though, which is silly. Both "teams" are playing for the same side.

 

Try something different? Nothing that is being incorporated into how things are done here are "new". Socialism isn't "new". This is a new day, but these measure's are not new by any means.

 

I agree with you completely apart from I don't see how your rights are being stripped away from you. How is your life any different now that it was 10 years ago? What rights have you lost?

 

Politics in general has failed completely, the left and right are both so centred there is basically no difference in them, I certainly prefer Obama to George Bush only for the fact he is clearly a more intelligent, articulate person, not based on his policies at all.

 

I know you have the constitution, and I am not arguing against that, but I have not seen any successes in American politics in my life. You still have this ridiculous gap between the rich and the poor and people still can't see doctors or get decent educations without paying through the nose for it.

 

Most Americans seem more concerned that they can have guns rather than securing a decent future for their children through good education, the vast majority of people seem to have their focus on completely the wrong places, the focus should be on education, healthcare, progressing technology and making sure religion plays no part in the politics of your country.

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I agree with you completely apart from I don't see how your rights are being stripped away from you. How is your life any different now that it was 10 years ago? What rights have you lost?

 

read the patriot act. there is no privacy. the 4th amendment is essentially null and void. the govt can now legally invade your privacy and read your email, your phone calls, put key board trackers on your key boards, read your financial records and even library records without warrants and make it illegal to tell anyone about it. (violating both the amendment protecting free speech AND the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures)

 

the military commissions act and a few other statutes have essentially eliminated the right and tradition in anglo-saxon jurisprudence called habeus corpus. (being able to petition a judge to find out if your a legally be held or not and find out the charges against you) the govt can now, in the name of national security, strip you of your citizenship, throw you in a black hole/secret prison, torture you, deprive you of food, and hold you indefinitely WITHOUT EVEN CHARGING YOU.

 

the obama administration has recently argued in federal court that it now has the RIGHT to assassinate american citizens without trial anywhere the war on terror is taking place, including the US.

 

you no longer have the right to choose your own healthcare and it is illegal (when the statute takes effect) to NOT own a health insurance policy in the US.

 

the state of arizona has now decided to enforce a federal law mandating that all peoples must carry their papers to prove their identity and citizenship.

 

and to more piddly stuff...

it was recently brought to my attention that you cannot sell a 20 year old surplus bdu uniform (army/marine/military uniform) to anyone outside the US for fear of aiding 'terrorists.' the govt has banned gas cans without certain failure prone 'no spill' lids. toilet tank size has become nationalized. you cannot buy a toilet with a tank that is bigger than 1.6 gallons. these are just small examples of what govts are doing.

these are just a small portion of the rights lost in the last 10 years.

 

in recent news a new obama supreme court nominee believes that the govt has it within its power to ban books.

 

 

how can you NOT say rights are not being stripped away?

are your eyes open or do you just like tyranny? how far has the US come since the bill of rights was enacted? you need an entire library to house the US federal code!

none of this stuff listed above seems to ever register with you. you basically follow 'if you have nothing to hide' and 'if they arent busting down my door, everything is hunky dory' mantra.

we are all jose padilla's now. we are all branch davidians now. there is no hope in politics to fix anything. the only thing they can do to fix anything is repeal the 20th century at the very minimum and restore freedom.

your attitude is reflected in most americans. they do not care unless someone is busting down their own door. they take whatever laws are passed because the heat is cranked up slowly. if they started carting everyone off to relocation camps or 'domestic terrorist correction' centers most americans would care less! they would be waving at the tanks rolling down their thoroughfares waving flags singing the horrible bloody battle hymn of the republic.

 

i care about rights, i do not care about what i can get out of my fellow man through the force of a govt gun. the US was created for everyone to pursue happiness. it was based on liberty. it was not based on egalitarianism at all costs and equality of result at all costs and being able to loot your fellow man to pay for your 'over priced' prescription medicine that is a result of government intervention in the first place.

if an arsonist burns down your house... you dont go ask him how to put out the fire. you dont let the fox watch the hen house. and you dont ask the govt that has created all the problems in america to fix what they created. its an impossibility.

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Well considering that pretty much everything you mention would have no baring on me whatsoever I hardly seem to have anything to worry about, especially as I don't live there.

 

Yea I agree there is some fucked up things in the patriot act that are wrong, but face it how many of you are being locked up without trial and chucked into some blackhole? not many so it is hardly affecting you. If someone is picked up for terrorism then yea they should be held until trial, like most criminals, but they should have a trial.

 

Also, in my opinion the monitoring of internet/email is a tricky one, I certainly would like the internet monitored purely for the fight against CP, obviously to combat things like that they need access to peoples mails etc, but I do see the concern for it being used the wrong way, so that does need looking at.

 

As for the toilet cistern size and the other things you mentioned, they are so trivial it doesn't matter to me, literally I couldn't care less, none of those things are even rights to me that is just pettyness. The smaller toilet cisterns mean less in water rates and better in general for lower water usage, the caps on gas cans well that just seems obvious to me.

 

The people of America cause the problems not just the government, it is easy to pass blame when you are the people voting these people into power and not using the constitution as your means to fight against it.

 

Also, remember I play devils advocate in this A LOT. otherwise there would be no counter opinions and everyone would be parading around Russian style posters of Obama in their stupid arguement that it is all his fault.

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America was an experiment.

 

It was to see if people would choose liberty for themselves. Apparently, with the media, and the lack of overall education that most people receive it appears that the freest land in the world, and the great experiment will end.

 

You have constitution's replicating ours all over the world. Most people from those area's take this for granted, and act as if the United States of America's creation wasn't the cause for this wide spread realization of liberty. It has culminated over hundred's of year's so please do not think that the founding fathers are the sole author's of this document, or that the United States of the America is the sole creator of these believes. That is not what I am saying.

 

There are hundreds if not more who walk around the United States talking about how "out dated" the Constitution is, and how it needs to be changed to fit the new age. After all a bunch of slave owners can't know shit about freedom.

 

To me this "fixing" of one of the greatest political documents in the history of humanity is coming perfectly along for the "New World Order" that continues to be brought up, and apparently is right around the corner. Coincidence? Apparently.

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decy...

 

describe for us exactly when you think your rights are/would be in jeopardy. its obvious you think some of the biggest rights violations of all time are not anything at all to worry about. because it hasnt actually happened to you, it is no threat to you at all that the president himself has the power to strip you of your citizenship, throw you in jail, hold you forever, never try you, and never release you. its a scary logic if you ask me.

 

do you think the german jews thought that none of the stuff really pertained to them that the nazi's passed when they confiscated weapons, broke their windows and relocated them to the ghetto's? did it not really matter that they had to have yellow stars on their clothes? or do we have to wait until you are actually on the cattle car going to concentration camps and walking into the gas chambers before 'it' pertains to you?

 

im really curious about this one.

 

i sort of agree with your overall point though... but i dont think you realize it but you are also playing exactly into the original meaning of this thread. obama first term is essentially bush's third term. wars continued. same policies continued. slightly different ones are enacted that enhance state power and subdue the individual. i do agree that what is going on is nothing new. since the civil war with very few exceptions/periods in history did we actually stop the growth of the state or reduce it. the overall trend has been to increase the power of govt. obama isnt much worse than bush. but we must also remember how bad bush was. and how bad clinton was and on back. every new president makes you yearn for their predecessor because it doesnt matter who is in congress or in the oval office... the power of the govt grows at the expense of the individual. obama is bush on speed.

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Flesh out how he is escalating the war on terror, please.

 

Can I haz ansa?

 

And AOD, I will get back to the other thread that has the discussion about ownership of private property. I'm thinking my response over for a bit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't believe I just spoke like a fucking lolcat....

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decy...

 

describe for us exactly when you think your rights are/would be in jeopardy. its obvious you think some of the biggest rights violations of all time are not anything at all to worry about. because it hasnt actually happened to you, it is no threat to you at all that the president himself has the power to strip you of your citizenship, throw you in jail, hold you forever, never try you, and never release you. its a scary logic if you ask me.

 

do you think the german jews thought that none of the stuff really pertained to them that the nazi's passed when they confiscated weapons, broke their windows and relocated them to the ghetto's? did it not really matter that they had to have yellow stars on their clothes? or do we have to wait until you are actually on the cattle car going to concentration camps and walking into the gas chambers before 'it' pertains to you?

 

im really curious about this one.

 

i sort of agree with your overall point though... but i dont think you realize it but you are also playing exactly into the original meaning of this thread. obama first term is essentially bush's third term. wars continued. same policies continued. slightly different ones are enacted that enhance state power and subdue the individual. i do agree that what is going on is nothing new. since the civil war with very few exceptions/periods in history did we actually stop the growth of the state or reduce it. the overall trend has been to increase the power of govt. obama isnt much worse than bush. but we must also remember how bad bush was. and how bad clinton was and on back. every new president makes you yearn for their predecessor because it doesnt matter who is in congress or in the oval office... the power of the govt grows at the expense of the individual. obama is bush on speed.

 

As it sits now, how I live in the my country, my rights aren't in jeopardy at all. I have the right to do what I want, to eat what I want, talk to who I want and work where I want. My family has the right to education and to healthcare. We have so many rights that it is unbelievable how free we are in comparison to other countries around the world, and for that I am thankful.

 

I understand the need to have systems in place to combat certain factors. Such as detainment of terrorists/terrorism laws. The only problem to me is that these people deserve trials, deserve their chance at justice. I can see how governments can use these laws they have passed for doing wrong, but so far I haven't experienced that. If I were doing things shady and putting myself in the position where I could be prosecuted under these laws then yea I would probably be more concerned, but you do the crime you do the time.

 

The Jews analogy is one I just find really annoying, because that was a wholly different situation, and it isn't happening at the moment. It doesn't even compare to how life is nowadays. Believe me if i was being sheparded into ghettos and being told what to wear and shit like that then I would go bat shit crazy and start killing on sight. Because that would be an infringement of my rights. The fact that government is regulating toilet cvisterns etc is not an infringement of rights. 2 Major differents scenarios.

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you have the right to do what you want?

can you open a business without filling out 1000 pieces of paper work, get licenses, and be regulated on everything you do? can you consume any substance including meth, cocaine, or crack? can you consume/ingest/whatever any plant substance including marijuana legally? the same ideology that forbids people from using cocaine is the same ideology that forbids people to consume raw milk in the US ( i know england has small legalized raw milk but i believe ireland has prohibited it)

can you build a house however you want to without getting the governments permission and approval on how many electrical outlets are in what rooms and if the design plan fits into their zoning schemes? can you carry a defensive weapon any time you want and on any property where the private owners allow such to be done without infringement from the state? does your government monitor any activities of its citizens? (last i heard the security state in the UK was ridiculous)

can you contract with an employer to work at any wage and in any conditions or has the government outlawed various wage contracts? (minimum wage laws) can you keep all of your income and property without the government taking any of it by force? do you need a government permission slip to get married ?(a license)

these are just a sampling of things.

you dont really care at all about civil rights simply because you think that if you arent 'doing anything wrong' nothing will happen. what about the jose padilla case in the US? it doesnt disturb you at all that there are laws on the books in the US and im sure in the UK that basically can strip you of your rights as a citizen and detain you indefinitely without trial and without even a reason? this is the exact same system that was used in nazi germany and soviet russia!

 

the analogy of nazi era germany is 100% sound. you seem to think that because you were born into a life that had certain state interventions already in place that this is just normal. you are used to it. you do not consider state infringement on your rights to be bad because you dont know any different.

the nazi state was nothing but a harsher infringement on peoples rights that what we live under now. do you notice how the effects were slow to take place and the jew's didnt resist because they held a sheepish ideology that you also hold. that the govt wasnt that bad, that their rights really werent infringed. those yellow stars should be worn with pride! and work permits? that is nothing. oh, they are just sending some people to work camps to do work. no big deal.

 

history is nothing more than telling one tale of resistance to tyranny after another. history is nothing more than liberty trying to triumph against evil.

 

surely people that commit crimes deserve trials and deserve their chance at justice but this is the very issue we are talking about. the state can now do this to people who have not committed any crimes! jose padilla was basically charged with conspiring in an agreement to agree that they think maybe something should be done in the future. and the govt provided essentially no evidence. this is basically a thought crime.

you can go to jail for thinking something. and to make things worse... you can be tortured for 3 years before you even get to trial.

this is the state of the world we live in.

and that you think no ones rights are being infringed by governments is simply ludicrous.

governments only essentially do one thing... infringe on the rights of the people. when they were specifically created to protect these rights. the US was founded on the belief that when this happens, it is the right and the DUTY to throw off such government and create a new one.

 

you hold the classic statist ideology.... you want security instead of liberty.

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Can I haz ansa?

 

And AOD, I will get back to the other thread that has the discussion about ownership of private property. I'm thinking my response over for a bit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't believe I just spoke like a fucking lolcat....

 

Trying not to be disrespectful here so...

 

I really don't see a need to sit here and lay out exactly what he is doing to increase the "war on terror".

 

Pretty sure I've stated my case on this issue before, and so have others. So, if you please, could you give me an answer onto how he isn't, perhaps I could see the light.

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AOD I will try to address your comments

 

Drugs

 

Now personally I don't believe that the illegality of drugs is a serious issue in the society we live in. Do I think that drugs should be completely illegal and unregulated, NO.

 

The reasons for this are, I don't believe drugs like Heroin, Crack, Meth etc the real life destructing drugs should not be in the hands of criminal gangs or big corporations. If you have a serious drug addiction and need help then you should seek that help and be helped to break the addiction, not just be able to feed the addiction through a completely unregulated legal drug scenario. While you have the right to destroy your life with drugs or alcohol, you don't have the right to destroy the lives of the people around you that love you. I don't talk about this from a standpoint of having noexperience in the matter, I have had a heroin addiction, have smoked crack and have also had a long running problem with alcohol, I have managed to get past all of these things with the help of the people I love and the health system we have here.

 

I still smoke weed regularly, knowing full well it is illegal, do i think it is right that it is illegal, NO. Do I think I have a god given right to smoke weed, also NO. It is something I choose to do knowing the consequences full well.

 

I know plenty of people who have been dairy farmers and they have all drank raw milk, I know there are regulations surrounding this for the sale of milk, to be honest I dont care as long as I have milk for my coffee I dont give a shit.

 

Housing

 

Do I think a sleepy beautiful country village in england should be destroyed because someone has unfiltered rights to build whatever concrete monstrosity they want there, hell NO. Housing rules are in place for numerous reasons, for not destroying the area you live in, to make sure what you build is safe, to make sure what you build doesnt destroy the value of you neighbours properties.

 

 

Housing laws are in place for a reason, to protect the habitat they are being built in, obviously some of the rules are complete bollocks others are spot on, to me a review of the rules to make sure they are proper is needed not to get rid of them completely.

 

I used to live in a listed building so I know exactly what I am talking about here.

 

Weapons

 

I can walk around my house carrying knives, swords, bats, poles or anything like that and I am not going to get in trouble for it. Can I carry them on the street, NO. Good because I dont want any Tom Dick or Harry to be walking around carrrying them either, simple as that. I don't need to carry a weapon because in my 30 years of live I have never needed to, I used to hang around with dodgy people, access to weapons but even THEY didnt carry weapons, you know why because in this country not any retard can have access to weapons, unlike America.

 

Government watching you

 

I am sorry that is too paranoid for me, If the government is watching me they must be mighty bored because all they will see is someone that goes to work, is a good family man, who posts on an online forum more than is actually socially acceptable. In my everyday life I do not see anyway the government is watching or monitoring me. Again it comes down to if you are doing something wrong just be careful, if you aren't doing anything wrong why worry.

 

Wages

 

I am damn glad of minimum wages rules because you think employers will pay you more in a free market, haha hell no that would eat thir profit margins. There isn't a cap on how much you can earn, only on how little they can pay you, that is a good thing in my books.

 

Taxes

 

no one likes them, some people biutch about them, others don't. I am happy with the things the vast majority of my taxes go into, and having paid taxes I benefit greatly from a lot of things I obtain because of that, I am not gonna be a hypocrite and say that taxes are theft because I recieve services from them.

 

MArriage license

 

apart friom immigration cases where the state may get involved, this is no real issue. When I got married me and my wife filled out a form, they scanned over it, gave us a license. My only issue with this is I had to fill out a form, big deal.

 

Detainment

 

I have said many times that everyone should be entitled to the judicial process whether convicted of fraud or of terrorism. If you are to be detained before trial (for reasons of flight or danger to others etc) then the time served should count towards you actual convicted time. If a jury of your peers convicts you then you have had a fair trial. Obviously there are miscarriages of justice but then how many people in a prison say they are innocent? As long as the legal process has been followed and a jury has decided the evidence suggests your guilty then I am sorry what else can be done?

 

I do not agree with the way terror suspects are treated and all the legal rights of due process are taken away that is completely wrong and I have never condoned it.

 

 

 

Sorry for the long post, just got some good weed that made me consider my responses more and take the time to type the reply. Uh oh the government is watching who is that kicking in my doo.....

 

 

 

sorry couldnt resist :)

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so to basically sum up your position, you are essentially 'happy' as long as the government gives you permission to do certain things and you basically place little value in natural rights... and you believe the state holds an answer to all of societies problems....am i on point on this?

this is the only conclusion i can draw from your post.

you also hold positions that are 100% against natural rights, which we already knew. in fact i have yet to see a right that you have ever once defended as being inviolable.

 

i'll address a few....

 

there are cities in the US without zoning. houston texas which is a big city, has no zoning laws, last time i checked, yet there are no scrap yards in the middle of the down town tourist traps. the market uses a zoning mechanism in its pricing system.

 

the same ideology that says you cant 'destroy a sleepy village' also says that if you want to build a house on a farm for your kids, you cant build it any smaller than 900 sq ft. its illegal. the same ideology says that if you want to try to be 'green' and use a really expensive self composting toilet in a house, its illegal. the same ideology also says that if you are a farmer and you raise beef, you cannot process the meat on the farm. farms are zoned agricultural. slaughterhouses are zoned industrial. what better place is there to put a meat processing facility than next to the cows? the same ideology also says that you cannot operate a 'saw mill' on agricultural land. but what better place to put a small super efficient portable saw mill that runs on 1 gallon of gas a day than next to the trees? sure you can run this thing yourself and only process your trees, for your use, but if your neighbor across the fence brings you a tree to cut up, you cannot do it or you are committing a crime. see what this gets you for trying to be 'environmentally friendly' and using local resources instead of carting cows for hundreds of miles and transporting trees hundreds of miles to be processed. a farmer is also forbidden due to excessive regulation to run a farm store on his farm if the land is zoned agricultural. you must be zoned commercial. you must have bathroom facilities and a paved parking lot with handicap spots. we are talking about a farm here. that is off of a gravel road. in order to sell a pound of cheese you must have a 100,000$ dollar cheese processing facility. if you have to invest 100,000$ to sell a pound of cheese to a guy across the street, how many people are going to be selling cheese and selling their products in their neighborhood? if you cant even legally make the cheese in your kitchen just once to sell, how can you determine if its feasible to open a cheese facility and see if anyone even likes it? who do the regulations benefit, big business or the little guy?

 

and to address this:

 

"Again it comes down to if you are doing something wrong just be careful, if you aren't doing anything wrong why worry."

 

what about the jose padilla case who was tortured for 3 years before trial for a THOUGHT CRIME. he didnt do anything and didnt have anything to hide.

 

sure you have nothing to worry about, just like the jews had nothing to worry about being casually walked into the ghettos and carted off in cattle cars.

 

sorry for the rant, but im still trying to figure out at what point you will say that your rights are infringed upon.... im really interested in this.

where is your line... everyone has one.

all im saying is that as soon as the govt infringes on rights even in the smallest manner, it is illegitimate. but everyone has a tolerance level... a line in the sand. i know where mine is. i want to know where your's is.

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No the state doesn't hold the answers, but also a free reign and everything being OK also doesn't hold the answer, I just know which I would prefer, a lawless society where anything goes over what I have now, I will take what I have now.

 

I dont know what the individual laws of building a house on your land you are talking about but then your rules are differnt to ours. Yea you should be able to build what you like but also there needs to be a consideration to others, you can't just erect a huge concrete block somewhere and destroy the scenery of that area. Do I think the laws are perfect hell no i dont, I really don't. But, there HAS to be some guidelines are rules in place otherwise there would be chaos, so you would be happy with your neighbours right to build a 100ft block of flats right next to you? it doesn't infringe on your property but it certainly ruins any views, maybe sunlight in your garden, reducing the value of your property? because without those rules what is to stop that happening?

 

In this country it isnt government that tell business to cart their products 100 of miles for shipping, it is more cost effective for the BUSINESS to have all its processing done in one area, I was actually listening to a discussion on the radio the other day where supermarkets and farmers were saying that it is cheaper for them to have the raw goods (slaughtered cattle, vegetables etc) to be shipped to central processing areas. Is it the best option in all cases again no, smaller independent business suffer but again your laws are differnt to ours so again maybe that is where the confusion lies because the central processing is the businesses choice and not through legislation.

 

I am not really up on the Jose Padilla case because it hasn't really been reported here. I have said it before even in my previous post, I do not agree with the laws set in place towards the so called war on terror and the was people are dealt with. I do not agree with torture and I do not agree with people being convicted and detained without following the judicial process. There will always be miscarriages of justice, the same as there will always be fucking stupid laws, we do not live in a perfect world and we never will.

 

I will stand up and fight for something if I it affects my life, so far nothing has affected my life. I wish weed was legal, do I care enough to fight for it, no it isnt that important.

 

As long as my life, in as much that I can live happily, my family is healthy and happy, I am working and enjoying my life and things are ok then I don't see why I should worry. If something stopped that from happening then I would die to change it.

 

AOD we are not oppressed people, there are millions in the world that are worse off than you and I, If I were in their situation then my feelings may be different. Also, I would like to point out that I am quite happy and content in my life at the moment and don't want stress, at other times in my life I have been much more militant and have raged against government, raged against big business and argued til I am blue in the mouth, maybe I am just apatheic now because you aren't going to change shit. Business, government it is all the same fucking thing, they are in each others pocket. Rules no Rules you are going to get screwed by someone, I would prefer it to be someone I have a say in how badly I get screwed than major companies that I have no say in how badly I would get screwed, because believe me, without government in place big business would dominate this planet and ruin it, kind of how christo was trying to explain in the property rights issue in the other thread.

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