THE OBAMA REVOLUTION!

[serum]

you can totally apply that logic to mccain as well as obama. in any case, it's a pretty weak complaint.

 

well perhaps the blacks are voting for obama just to vote for a black man

but how many people that are white and hispanic are voting for him.

 

i dont think hilary is the worst person that could get elected but if she did

there would be an extreme polarization of democrats vs republicans

obama has the possability of winning both sides over

 

plus i dont like that hilary has so much experience.

i think that long term politicians once they get where they want to be they do everything

to stay there and nothing that would get them kicked out which means no rocking the boat.

 

i think obama can intelligently rock the boat.

[WORDISM45]

“We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York, and we never batted an eye,” Wright says. “We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is brought right back in our own front yards.”

 

In a later sermon, Wright revisits the theme, declaring: “No, no, no, not God bless America — God damn America!”

 

You know what; I'm not too worried about what he said because it might not be my opinion but it's not like it was something I haven't heard before. I've heard more extreme by both sides here and in real life. Shit, Malcolm X is one of my heroes and he said similar things before the final stages in his life. Write in your complaint at the ballot. While you're at it, order me some pork fried rice, I've been craving it for a second...

 

its pretty sad that this guy states complete truths but the american public is too blinded by their false patriotism to see it, Obama should be able to be proud to be associated with this guy but it's obviously too politically inexpedient.

[Stereotype V.0002]

The quote my rotting liver posted is the clip the media played over and over, usually excluding the part where he says that 911 was really "the chickens coming home to roost." Various complete truths like this gem “The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color!” havent been getting as much air time, for some reason. OBAMA FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stereotype V.0002]

And just to let you guys know I'm not trying to start an argument that teh govtz really didn't create AIDS, or that 9/11 wasn't really totally justified because our grandparents/great grandparents killed a quarter million people 60 years ago instead of killing an estimated 7 million with a ground invasion, since most 12ozers probably agree with these things.

[WORDISM45]

i didn't take the quote posted to mean the 9/11 attacks were justified in that this was necessarily the right thing to do, rather it seems he offers america's history of aggression as a deciding factor in what makes people want to attack it in the first place.

 

surely you agree that the reason the american nation is so hated around the world, and has been targeted by extremists, is because of it's past and continuing aggressive foreign actions?

[Stereotype V.0002]

Bin Laden doesnt and didnt give a fuck that we nuked japanese infidels 60 years ago, the average jihadi has never heard of the various coups the cia was behind during the cold war or any other 30-60 year old action you can name that people here get a hard on for, nor would they care (if they didnt memorize a book they don't understand and actually got a real education). They dont give a shit that we "occupied muslim lands" pre 9/11 by keeping a small number of troops in saudi isolated from the population.... their actions have always been designed to provoke an American occupation of muslim countries so they can directly attack us whenever they want, that was the purpose behind 9/11. I doubt osama was angry that we are taking their oil, since our money is where bin laden ultimately got his cash and he would be dirt poor fucking donkeys if it wasn't for the insane amount of cash we have pumped into his country for oil. If al qaeda was actually concerned about our support for Israel (outside of their propaganda tapes), why have they never attacked any actual Israeli target? So, to answer your question, no I dont think Osama and company was reading howard zinn's book one day in sudan and got all angry and thats why they bombed the world trade center. They are extremely stupid and insane, and have a variety of insane reasons they think justifies their actions, most of which don't revolve around the infidels killing other infidels before they were born.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

The foreign policy that we have had for years has shaped the minds of the people in that region. Our foreign policy is the reason why those radical opinions hold weight. Like it or not. I doubt a bunch of people would be running around supporting them if we haven't been blowing up there land, stealing there resources and killing there families for generations now.

 

As far as Hilary lying about the sniper fire....LOL!

[WORDISM45]

Bin Laden doesnt and didnt give a fuck that we nuked japanese infidels 60 years ago, the average jihadi has never heard of the various coups the cia was behind during the cold war or any other 30-60 year old action you can name that people here get a hard on for, nor would they care (if they didnt memorize a book they don't understand and actually got a real education). They dont give a shit that we "occupied muslim lands" pre 9/11 by keeping a small number of troops in saudi isolated from the population.... their actions have always been designed to provoke an American occupation of muslim countries so they can directly attack us whenever they want, that was the purpose behind 9/11. I doubt osama was angry that we are taking their oil, since our money is where bin laden ultimately got his cash and he would be dirt poor fucking donkeys if it wasn't for the insane amount of cash we have pumped into his country for oil. If al qaeda was actually concerned about our support for Israel (outside of their propaganda tapes), why have they never attacked any actual Israeli target? So, to answer your question, no I dont think Osama and company was reading howard zinn's book one day in sudan and got all angry and thats why they bombed the world trade center. They are extremely stupid and insane, and have a variety of insane reasons they think justifies their actions, most of which don't revolve around the infidels killing other infidels before they were born.

 

presuming your theory that terrorists conducted the WTC attacks in order to provoke america into invading arab land to make it easier for them to attack you (something i don't actually agree with but for the sake of argument). Why do you think they want to attack americans in the first place?

[Stereotype V.0002]

presuming your theory that terrorists conducted the WTC attacks in order to provoke america into invading arab land to make it easier for them to attack you

Well not arab land but its less of an opinion/theory and more of a historical fact that osama bin laden/al qaeda carried out the attacks on September 11, and claimed responsibility directly afterwards, with what he said the desired result being a massive conventional invasion of Afghanistan in retribution for the attacks. He really believed he personally defeated the soviet union and caused them to collapse, hence the "stupid and insane" description I gave of him, and he was going to do the same thing to the great satan. He was disappointed when a handful of Americans and planes at 20,000 feet chased the Taliban out of their country, but that's a different subject.

 

Why do you think they want to attack americans in the first place?

I was only explaining why their claim that 9/11 was justified because America "occupied" muslim lands pre-911 was bullshit, not to explain the cause of their attacks in general. I am guessing you subscribe to the past American foreign policy is the cause of terrorism theory, which is the mainstream opinion atleast in the states. The problem is osama and friends don't give a fuck about right wing death squads in central America or most other horrific shit you can directly or indirectly link to the CIA/US gov. They are angry about the western culture of music, sexual promiscuity, girls wearing clothes that reveal more than a narrow slot for their eyes, mcdonalds, coca cola, democracy, michael jackson, chuck norris exercise commercials, swimming pools, etc etc, which infiltrates the muslim world just like everywhere else......the people responsible in their eyes is the only western "superpower". Sayyid Qutb is the granddaddy of Al Qaeda, and the creator of the philosophy AQ and similar groups follow. His ideas come from 2 years studying in the US during the 40s, where he was appalled by our culture. When the shitheads in Indonesia praise the bali bombers, they don't say the attacks were justified because of australias actions in the past, they say its because the australian tourists are "immoral." If American foreign policy is the cause of terrorism, how do you explain attacks on the most liberal European countries that don't have the same baggage as the US? When Al Qaeda states their goal, they say they want us all to convert to islam, instead of more rational specific grievances that people would prefer to believe is the root cause.

[Stereotype V.0002]

The foreign policy that we have had for years has shaped the minds of the people in that region. Our foreign policy is the reason why those radical opinions hold weight. Like it or not. I doubt a bunch of people would be running around supporting them if we haven't been blowing up there land, stealing there resources and killing there families for generations now.

 

As far as Hilary lying about the sniper fire....LOL!

 

Generations of blowing up their land and killing their families? Very few american incursions in the middle east pre 9/11, which lasted days, several of which were in places where the the al qaeda types hate the population, most of which happened before many al qaeda members were born.... the American incursions/interferences were less than what other outsiders have done, and far less than what their own governments have done to them. Whose oil have we stolen? I think that would be awesome, they wouldn't have money to launch attacks on us and we wouldn't have to pay so much for gas. Even Iraq, who we invaded to steal their oil, just signed a deal sending oil to fucking CHINA.

 

And its about time SINBAD got involved in this election. He is fucking up hilldogs shit!

[WORDISM45]

Well not arab land but its less of an opinion/theory and more of a historical fact that osama bin laden/al qaeda carried out the attacks on September 11, and claimed responsibility directly afterwards, with what he said the desired result being a massive conventional invasion of Afghanistan in retribution for the attacks. He really believed he personally defeated the soviet union and caused them to collapse, hence the "stupid and insane" description I gave of him, and he was going to do the same thing to the great satan. He was disappointed when a handful of Americans and planes at 20,000 feet chased the Taliban out of their country, but that's a different subject.

 

 

I was only explaining why their claim that 9/11 was justified because America "occupied" muslim lands pre-911 was bullshit, not to explain the cause of their attacks in general. I am guessing you subscribe to the past American foreign policy is the cause of terrorism theory, which is the mainstream opinion atleast in the states. The problem is osama and friends don't give a fuck about right wing death squads in central America or most other horrific shit you can directly or indirectly link to the CIA/US gov. They are angry about the western culture of music, sexual promiscuity, girls wearing clothes that reveal more than a narrow slot for their eyes, mcdonalds, coca cola, democracy, michael jackson, chuck norris exercise commercials, swimming pools, etc etc, which infiltrates the muslim world just like everywhere else......the people responsible in their eyes is the only western "superpower". Sayyid Qutb is the granddaddy of Al Qaeda, and the creator of the philosophy AQ and similar groups follow. His ideas come from 2 years studying in the US during the 40s, where he was appalled by our culture. When the shitheads in Indonesia praise the bali bombers, they don't say the attacks were justified because of australias actions in the past, they say its because the australian tourists are "immoral." If American foreign policy is the cause of terrorism, how do you explain attacks on the most liberal European countries that don't have the same baggage as the US? When Al Qaeda states their goal, they say they want us all to convert to islam, instead of more rational specific grievances that people would prefer to believe is the root cause.

you know what that's actually a pretty convincing argument.

[WORDISM45]

unfortunately it only postulates why al-qaeda has done what they've done, not really a formula for why the rest of the world hates america...

[smooth bruce]

Generations of blowing up their land and killing their families? Very few american incursions in the middle east pre 9/11

 

Why do you continuously fail at your own countries history?

[LIVERWURST*]

For those who are interested in the power a president and his ability to hear differing points of view (or not) can have, watch Frontlines "Bush's War". I just got done watching it again. It outlines the exact conversations and voices that lead to the deception that is the war in Iraq. More importantly it outlines how a political and weak president who relied on close ties (Cheney/Rumsfeld) over his own abilities, can lead to us making mind boggling mistakes. The part where Colin Powell is fighting for the Geneva convention and regular international relationships is heartbreaking. In fact there are so many points where we could have done better I hope all of you watch…well, I hope you watch Frontline anyway…but I know most of you don’t.

[UGLYKUNT]

poor people dont vote black or white.....

[the.crooked]

^^ I can't wait to read what you posted in the nature of the creator thread.

[Stereotype V.0002]

For those who are interested in the power a president and his ability to hear differing points of view (or not) can have, watch Frontlines "Bush's War". I just got done watching it again. It outlines the exact conversations and voices that lead to the deception that is the war in Iraq. More importantly it outlines how a political and weak president who relied on close ties (Cheney/Rumsfeld) over his own abilities, can lead to us making mind boggling mistakes. The part where Colin Powell is fighting for the Geneva convention and regular international relationships is heartbreaking. In fact there are so many points where we could have done better I hope all of you watch…well, I hope you watch Frontline anyway…but I know most of you don’t.

 

I've only caught part 1 so far, it has been pretty objective. Armitage and Powell both come off pretty well in it, I am looking forward to the documentation of bremer's magnificent reconstruction skills. Those of you who aren't near a TV can watch here http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/

[Stereotype V.0002]

unfortunately it only postulates why al-qaeda has done what they've done, not really a formula for why the rest of the world hates america...

 

Yeah I would agree that the rest of the world is pissed off as a result of (mostly cold war era) US foreign policy...and in recent times alot of ill will was stirred up from the iraq war. But there are a few countries that are more pro-american than most communities in the US, because of American foreign policy.

[isayedGIT!]

In answer to questions regarding his "collusion" in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, bin Laden responded, "America has made many accusations against us and many other Muslims around the world. Its charge that we are carrying out acts of terrorism is unwarranted. If inciting people to do that is terrorism, and if killing those who kill our sons is terrorism, then let history be witness that we are terrorists."

 

Bin Laden was also asked about his involvement in anthrax attacks on the United States following the September 11 terrorist strikes. His indirect response was: "These diseases are a punishment from God and a response to oppressed mothers' prayers in Lebanon and Palestine."

 

This happened before the first two quotes:

 

"Because of the restrictions, Miller was unable to immediately evaluate the results of his interview. Only when Miller returned to New York did he understand the portent of bin Laden's comments. The terrorist leader had not only clearly reiterated his original 1996 threat of a jihad, or holy war, against any country that invaded or IMPEDED the nation of Islam, he had specifically warned of mass genocide against the American people."

[Stereotype V.0002]

In answer to questions regarding his "collusion" in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, bin Laden responded, "America has made many accusations against us and many other Muslims around the world. Its charge that we are carrying out acts of terrorism is unwarranted. If inciting people to do that is terrorism, and if killing those who kill our sons is terrorism, then let history be witness that we are terrorists."

 

This is from a tape that was on his favorite channel al jazeera, he says the Israeli invasion of Lebanon is the reason for the September 11th attacks, and that he started planning the attacks in 1982....not the late 90s....which is ridiculous. In the same tape, he criticizes bush for not being "vigilant" enough to prevent the attacks.....do you think bin laden is actually upset that bush didn't pay enough attention to stop osama's attacks on the world trade center? Again, the Palestinian cause is pimped out by every nutjob in the middle east, from bin laden to saddam. Al Qaeda has never ONCE attacked Israel, they have zero presence in Lebanon or the palestinian territories, he only uses this because its hard to convince multitudes of poor people that the western world and having money is bad when you are a multi millionaire.

[Stereotype V.0002]

If you read his declaration of war on the united states from 1996, the centerpiece of his argument is about western/US cultural influences on the middle east, especially Saudi Arabia. He thinks that the Saudi laws aren't extreme enough, he specifically cites that if a woman commits adultery and is punished, and then repents then she is forgiven. In the small section he devotes to the "Christian armies of the crusaders" attacking muslims, he lists about a dozen countries where there have been conflicts between muslims and others, that America had absolutely nothing to do with.....Chechnya is one example. America is at fault for the Russians, our lap dogs, fucking up chechnya. He actually lists the bosnia/kosovo situations, where the US really went to war against Christians in support of Muslims, as a place where "the crusader jews have shed the blood of innocent muslims." His "letter to the American people" is similiar, as is most of his propaganda. The mandatory pimping out of the palestinian cause and blaming us for the actions of our great allies like russia aside, the majority of the letter is a moronic rant about western culture, and instead of listing specific actions to rectify wrongs, he demands that we all convert to islam. I understand why people would prefer to see some sort of orderly clear reason of why a group of people on the other side of the world, who are totally ignorant of our society, would want to indiscriminately kill all of us. If you don't think his main problem is western culture, read his letter.....a few excerpts-

(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.

(a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest.

We call you to all of this that you may be freed from that which you have become caught up in; that you may be freed from the deceptive lies that you are a great nation, that your leaders spread amongst you to conceal from you the despicable state to which you have reached.

(b) It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind:

(i) You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator. You flee from the embarrassing question posed to you: How is it possible for Allah the Almighty to create His creation, grant them power over all the creatures and land, grant them all the amenities of life, and then deny them that which they are most in need of: knowledge of the laws which govern their lives?

(ii) You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions. Yet you build your economy and investments on Usury. As a result of this, in all its different forms and guises, the Jews have taken control of your economy, through which they have then taken control of your media, and now control all aspects of your life making you their servants and achieving their aims at your expense; precisely what Benjamin Franklin warned you against.

(iii) You are a nation that permits the production, trading and usage of intoxicants. You also permit drugs, and only forbid the trade of them, even though your nation is the largest consumer of them.

(iv) You are a nation that permits acts of immorality, and you consider them to be pillars of personal freedom. You have continued to sink down this abyss from level to level until incest has spread amongst you, in the face of which neither your sense of honour nor your laws object.

Who can forget your President Clinton's immoral acts committed in the official Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to account, other than that he 'made a mistake', after which everything passed with no punishment. Is there a worse kind of event for which your name will go down in history and remembered by nations?

(v) You are a nation that permits gambling in its all forms. The companies practice this as well, resulting in the investments becoming active and the criminals becoming rich.

(vi) You are a nation that exploits women like consumer products or advertising tools calling upon customers to purchase them. You use women to serve passengers, visitors, and strangers to increase your profit margins. You then rant that you support the liberation of women.

(vii) You are a nation that practices the trade of sex in all its forms, directly and indirectly. Giant corporations and establishments are established on this, under the name of art, entertainment, tourism and freedom, and other deceptive names you attribute to it.

(viii) And because of all this, you have been described in history as a nation that spreads diseases that were unknown to man in the past. Go ahead and boast to the nations of man, that you brought them AIDS as a Satanic American Invention.

(xi) You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases more than any other nation in history. Despite this, you refuse to sign the Kyoto agreement so that you can secure the profit of your greedy companies and*industries.

(x) Your law is the law of the rich and wealthy people, who hold sway in their political parties, and fund their election campaigns with their gifts. Behind them stand the Jews, who control your policies, media and economy.

(xi) That which you are singled out for in the history of mankind, is that you have used your force to destroy mankind more than any other nation in history; not to defend principles and values, but to hasten to secure your interests and profits. You who dropped a nuclear bomb on Japan, even though Japan was ready to negotiate an end to the war. How many acts of oppression, tyranny and injustice have you carried out, O callers to freedom?

(xii) Let us not forget one of your major characteristics: your duality in both manners and values; your hypocrisy in manners and principles. All*manners, principles and values have two scales: one for you and one for the others.

(a)The freedom and democracy that you call to is for yourselves and for white race only; as for the rest of the world, you impose upon them your monstrous, destructive policies and Governments, which you call the 'American friends'. Yet you prevent them from establishing democracies. When the Islamic party in Algeria wanted to practice democracy and they won the election, you unleashed your agents in the Algerian army onto them, and to attack them with tanks and guns, to imprison them and torture them - a new lesson from the 'American book of democracy'!!!

(3) What we call you to thirdly is to take an honest stance with yourselves - and I doubt you will do so - to discover that you are a nation without principles or manners, and that the values and principles to you are something which you merely demand from others, not that which you yourself must adhere to.

If you fail to respond to all these conditions, then prepare for fight with the Islamic Nation. The Nation of Monotheism, that puts complete trust on Allah and fears none other than Him. The Nation which is addressed by its Quran with the words: "Do you fear them? Allah has more right that you should fear Him if you are believers. Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of believing people. And remove the anger of their (believers') hearts. Allah accepts the repentance of whom He wills. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise." [Quran9:13-1]

The Nation of honour and respect:

The Nation of Martyrdom; the Nation that desires death more than you desire life:

The Islamic Nation that was able to dismiss and destroy the previous evil Empires like yourself; the Nation that rejects your attacks, wishes to remove your evils, and is prepared to fight you. You are well aware that the Islamic Nation, from the very core of its soul, despises your haughtiness and arrogance.

If the Americans refuse to listen to our advice and the goodness, guidance and righteousness that we call them to, then be aware that you will lose this Crusade Bush began, just like the other previous Crusades in which you were humiliated by the hands of the Mujahideen, fleeing to your home in great silence and disgrace. If the Americans do not respond, then their fate will be that of the Soviets who fled from Afghanistan to deal with their military defeat, political breakup, ideological downfall, and economic bankruptcy.

This is our message to the Americans, as an answer to theirs. Do they now know why we fight them and over which form of ignorance, by the permission of Allah, we shall be victorious?

[Stereotype V.0002]

And I think its really bizarre that I am explaining why osama bin laden isn't justified in murdering thousands of innocent people, seems pretty self explanatory.

[isayedGIT!]

I agree. The first two quotes are examples of him justifying his acts of terrorism through causes that aren't his own. His only goal is a Muslim world.

[LIVERWURST*]

Less Osama,

More Obama

 

Delegate count:

Obama: 1626

Clinton: 1506

 

Hillary seems to be encouraging delegates to steal the votes from their states to basically match thier individual political preferance over the voice of the people:

 

"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- For the second time in three days, Sen. Hillary Clinton told reporters that the pledged delegates awarded based on vote totals in their state are not bound to abide by election results.

 

It's an idea that has been floated by her or a campaign surrogate nearly half a dozen times this month.

 

Sen. Barack Obama leads Clinton among all Democratic delegates, 1,622 to 1,485, in the latest CNN count. Among pledged delegates, Obama leads Clinton 1,413 to 1,242.

 

"Every delegate with very few exceptions is free to make up his or her mind however they choose," Clinton told Time's Mark Halperin in an interview published Wednesday.

 

"We talk a lot about so-called pledged delegates, but every delegate is expected to exercise independent judgment," she said.

 

More: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/26/clinton.delegates/index.html

[the.crooked]

Yes, subversion of the voice of the people.

 

Exactly what the democratic party needs to do to use such an historic opportunity to strengthen its base. Show the people it doesn't care what they say.

 

 

 

brilliant.

[lord_casek]

you guys know obama voted in favor of real ID, right?

[LIVERWURST*]

Help me out with that Casek. I looked it up and the only places saying as much were Fox News and all the typical right win/libertarian sites which themselves offered limited information for me to verify. According to more credible sources, what I found was that he was a no vote in 2007, likely because he was campaigning. The sites mention a 2005 vote that I can't find...

 

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/votes/missed/

 

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490

07/26/2007 REAL ID Funding NV

 

So, proof or it didn't happen?

[LIVERWURST*]

And I found it.

 

http://mediamatters.org/items/200505130002

 

I would encourage everyone to read the article above, it seems to explain the vote well especially in light of the fact that it was maneuvered as an amendment by Republican leadership into an emergency funding bill in the House after it was clear it would not pass on its own. It was not in the Senate version:

 

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:HR01268:@@@D&summ2=4&

 

So technically Obama did not indeed vote for it, but even if it had been there, it was buried among a broader bill.

[lord_casek]

And I found it.

 

http://mediamatters.org/items/200505130002

 

I would encourage everyone to read the article above, it seems to explain the vote well especially in light of the fact that it was maneuvered as an amendment by Republican leadership into an emergency funding bill in the House after it was clear it would not pass on its own. It was not in the Senate version:

 

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:HR01268:@@@D&summ2=4&

 

So technically Obama did not indeed vote for it, but even if it had been there, it was buried among a broader bill.

 

 

i'm aware of the republicrat shenanigans with that bill. let me do some digging and i'll post

either later tonight or tomorrow some time.

[Larry Pubes]

you guys know obama voted in favor of real ID, right?

 

ah, so he's a wolf in sheeps clothing? he's apart of the nefarious NWO clique?? it all makes sense now...