Keeping blacky down

[CILONE/SK]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070903/ap_on_re_eu/ireland_black_students

 

"Local educators called a meeting over the weekend for parents struggling to find places and said they were shocked to see only black children."

 

 

 

 

 

I have traveled all over the world and I think America is one of the least racist places there is. Europeans are racists as hell. I also know alot of people from the middle east are extremly racist against anyone not like them.

 

America has its problems, but I truely do not think racism is as much of a problem here then it is everywhere else in the world.

[kowboy]

least racist...less racist, doesnt matter.. racism is the same. its how it affects kids and adults minds before we do something. but we as african americans or any minority group in the US or were ever can do better and stop worrying about what others can do for us... ...WORD UP

 

Case in point Katrina in NO.....VERY RACIST. our punk ass president didnt get there for a week. man i can go on forever how it affects minorities, but like i said we have to do for ourselves.

[MAR]

i think you're all missing the point. there is a place in Ireland called "Swords"

[CILONE/SK]

Mar, I do not get what you are saying. What does a town called sword have to do with it?

 

 

Kowboy, shut the fuck up, noob.

[Dawood]

noob

noob

noob

noob

noob

noob

[Skag Henry]

america is full of racists like anywhere else, you just chose to come out with it in the 50's by lynching/terrorising your black population.

[Theo Huxtable.]

I agree, Europe is far more racist than the US.

 

But Europe is also arrogant and will claim the US

 

The US just airs out its dirty laundry. Europe keeps a lid on theirs constantly.

 

It's more taboo in the US to be a "racist". In Europe it's second-nature. But they act like it doesn't exist.

 

What took place in that article in Ireland would not happen in the US today thanks to the high threats of litigation and condemnation that would happen in the US.

 

And the Euro above doesn't know what he's talking about -- lynching blacks was going on not just in the 50's but years before. The people that chose to come out with it were black American Civil Rights leaders, not the government.

[MAR]

Mar, I do not get what you are saying. What does a town called sword have to do with it?

 

Its a bad-ass name for a town.

 

I mean yeah it sucks that Ireland is having problems racially, but the crux of that problem I think has to do with religion more than race. If you read the article it says,

 

"Some also complained that Ireland's school system was discriminating against them on the basis of religion. About 98 percent of schools are run by the Roman Catholic Church, and the law permits them to discriminate on the basis of whether a prospective student has a certificate confirming they were baptized into the faith. Some of the African applicants were Muslim, members of evangelical Protestant denominations or of no religious creed."

 

Really what worries me is that there is no separation of church and state, or that the state allows its seemingly public funded schools (and correct me if I'm wrong) to discriminate based on religion (Its one thing if the school finances everything). Its not like these kids are trying to go to school in Vatican City.

[russell jones]

The country of Ireland's reason for existence is Catholicism, just as Israel's reason for existence is Judaism.

[MAR]

The country of Ireland's reason for existence is Catholicism, just as Israel's reason for existence is Judaism.

 

I wouldnt quite compare the two. Even so Israel has public schools and Arabs, Christians and Jews are all welcome there be you black, white, green or whatever.

[WORDISM45]

yeah i bet the arab and jew kids get on like a dream come true

[MAR]

eh. it all depends. In more rural areas probably not but in the more urban areas in the less religious schools they get on fine.

 

even so, they all get the same education and if you want your kid to get a more religious education you can end them to a private school.

[russell jones]

I think you're right MAR, I have talked to some Palestinians who have had good experiences in Israel. On the other hand, I have talked to other Palestinians who have had constant abuse. The abused ones live traditionally, wearing burkas and such, while the ones who have good experiences do not stick out among other Israelis, or Americans for that matter. I think Israel is more of a religious state than many know, and I hear Ethiopian and Palestinian Jews experience prejudice at the hands of Ashkenazi Jews.

[Dawood]

There is no Isreal, It's called Palestine.

[WORDISM45]

serious question for you dawood. At what point after the diaspora do you think Israel became Palestine?

[Dawood]

good question, I'm not a historian. I could go on google and give you the opinion of anyone who I thought supported my view but I won't. I'll just simply say that I don't acknowledge the current Jewish state since it is built on the occupation, theft of property, oppression and murder of the palestinian people. Waging war against the weak Muslims in Palestine is (Israeli) terrorism and oppression".

 

There are Jews that have been in Palestine for centuries and as far as I'm concerned, they have the right to be there, but the tresspassing newcomer Jews who usurped the property of innocent people who had been there for centuries are the ones who should be fought and killed until they return the land back to it's righful owners.

 

It's not a legitimate state as far as I'm concerned.

[shitting]

I agree, Europe is far more racist than the US.

 

But Europe is also arrogant and will claim the US

 

The US just airs out its dirty laundry. Europe keeps a lid on theirs constantly.

 

It's more taboo in the US to be a "racist". In Europe it's second-nature. But they act like it doesn't exist.

 

What took place in that article in Ireland would not happen in the US today thanks to the high threats of litigation and condemnation that would happen in the US.

 

And the Euro above doesn't know what he's talking about -- lynching blacks was going on not just in the 50's but years before. The people that chose to come out with it were black American Civil Rights leaders, not the government.

 

 

 

that shit doesn't mean anything. that town in ireland probaly had two catholic schools, , as in not state schools, catholic students get entry precedence.

also the black immigrants just may not have been culturally equipped to enroll their kids or some shit...

 

 

you were saying in some other thread that when you're in Europe heaps of people stare at you, are you sure it wasn't just a case of them being interested because they don't see that many blacks, similarly to how i would get stared at in japan?

don't

[MAR]

There is no Israel, It's called Palestine.

 

theres no Palestine. Its called Eretz Yisroel or Yehudah.

 

Palestine was the name given to the land by the Romans.

 

There are Jews that have been in Palestine for centuries and as far as I'm concerned, they have the right to be there, but the trespassing newcomer Jews who usurped the property of innocent people who had been there for centuries are the ones who should be fought and killed until they return the land back to it's rightful owners.

I could list 7 reasons off the top of my head why the so called Palestine claim is baloney:

 

1. the land was never, during the two millennia since the Jews were expelled from Israel, in Palestinian control.

2. there is barely such thing as a "Palestinian", look at British census reports it backs up my claim.

3. the areas traditionally considered Palestinian are actually Jewish, again census reports (pre-1880's (thats before the first aliyah) mind you.).

4. land that is won in a war isn't given back and was never pre-Israel and has never been by any other country and frankly I sincerely doubt the Arabs would.

5. the land was formally given to the Jews by the British and would have been given to by the Turkish had they not lost it in ww1.

6. "Palestine" was split into 2 states pre-1945 they are known as Israel and Jordan. Jordan was for the Arabs, Israel for the Jews.

7. The Arabs (look up the mufti of Jerusalem) in Israel conspired with Hitler to kill the Jews in Israel.

 

I hear Ethiopian and Palestinian Jews experience prejudice at the hands of Ashkenazi Jews.

Again it depends. I personally don't think there is much but i have heard from some people that the ultra-orthodox have trouble accepting certain conversions and, until they undergo the proper procedures, can be a bit difficult. This attitude would definitely seem prejudiced.

 

In some circles they might shun me, even though by almost everyones standards I am orthodox. The problems in the ultra-orthodox community, imho, stems from the idea that if you let people into the community who are different you may undermine the ideals that they strive for. That said I don't 100% blame them, I understand what they fear, even if i don't agree.

 

This idea explains alot of things, most noticeably, the dress code.

[Theo Huxtable.]

that shit doesn't mean anything. that town in ireland probaly had two catholic schools, , as in not state schools, catholic students get entry precedence.

also the black immigrants just may not have been culturally equipped to enroll their kids or some shit...

 

 

you were saying in some other thread that when you're in Europe heaps of people stare at you, are you sure it wasn't just a case of them being interested because they don't see that many blacks, similarly to how i would get stared at in japan?

don't

 

i was in amsterdam and london. i saw many blacks in both of those cities. i dont look black because im mixed, i look like a rican/latino, or maybe middle eastern and i've been told i look like an israeli-jew. no one would think i'm black. when i lived in japan i didn't get a lot of stares. a couple, but they weren't hostile. in europe the looks were hostile. i just felt that racism in europe is more acceptable and swept under the rug than in the US. people may think the US is more racist because we don't sweep it under the rug, we broadcast every ounce of racism and make a big deal about it.

[LIVERWURST*]

Theo, genuine question (which wouldn't excuse the behavior by the way) but could your dress have been the cause of the stares?

 

Anyway, in general I agree with Daily.

 

This is such a poor article. Could the white families, on a whole, have planned better or at worse, perhaps they were just more familiar with the way school districts work in Ireland being natives themselves? Being as it seems many of the black people seemed to be described as immigrants and thus less likely to have moved multiple times within Ireland, is this is not an equally safe assumption even if it wouldn't have made it into crossfire? Would you care as much about immigrants access to school systems enrollment information in Ireland (zzzzzzz) as you would an article that infers, but never proves, racism?

[Theo Huxtable.]

Theo, genuine question (which wouldn't excuse the behavior by the way) but could your dress have been the cause of the stares?

 

 

wasnt wearing anything out of the ordinary. just wearing just t-shirts and jeans or shorts

[~>MooseKnuckle<~]

first understand the difference between racism and prejudice.

 

rac·ism

 

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

 

prej·u·dice

 

1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.

3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

 

 

see the difference?

 

then understand its hard for anyone who is not a victim of racism to realize it. the only real anology to racism is sexism. its like tom cruz saying 'postpartum depression' is not real. it is something he can never experience - so how can he say it is not real. so unless you are a minority, or more specifically, if you are not black, then you will never experience racism in america. you may experience prejudice, but not racism.

 

i have never been to europe so i cant really speak on how racist it is or isnt there. but i have grown up in america. i am glad, and at times proud to be an american. i cant think of anyplace i would rather live (maybe thats because i have never lived anywhere else) i also understand that racism in america is so very instutionalized and such an expected reality, that to the uneffected - it appears that america is 'far less racist' than the places mentioned in the first post. i have a degree in history so i also know that america in 2007 is better as it has ever been as far as oportunity, race relations etc. but dont be so quick to say far less racist unless 1) you have lived here for an extended period and 2) you are someone affected by the american brand of racism.

 

while i am not one to make excuses or place blame (especially on the white man) you have got to understand the influence of plantation slavery on america's cultural evolution. an influence that america will not be able to shake in a few hundred years. slavery in america is unique because in recorded human history there has never been another system of slavery like it. so its effects are long lasting and ingrained in the society it created. but i digress because again, i hate when people (especially black people) use that as an excuse for individual or group failure.

 

i remember visiting canada once - years before michael moore shined light on it. i remember thinking how stunned i was when i went in expensive stores in the mall and no one was following me around. stepping in elevators and noone was clutching their purse. walking down the street in the wee hours of the night and the cops driving by were not shining a light in my face. i didnt live in canada, so i dont really know what goes on there, but i just found that well, stunning.

[WORDISM45]

 

In some circles they might shun me, even though by almost everyones standards I am orthodox. The problems in the ultra-orthodox community, imho, stems from the idea that if you let people into the community who are different you may undermine the ideals that they strive for. That said I don't 100% blame them, I understand what they fear, even if i don't agree.

 

This idea explains alot of things, most noticeably, the dress code.

 

why is that what kind of Jew are you mar?

[MAR]

why is that? what kind of Jew are you mar?

 

this is me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_jew

 

In the Jewish circles I would be considered 100% religious.

 

The issue for some is that I still interact with the non-Jewish community. My interaction, according to a minority, is detrimental to the values that we hold sacred. I can say for a fact they are right. BUT, this is the lifestyle I have chosen.

 

For many, we find it difficult to be able to maintain a normal lifestyle without existing, in part, in the non-Jewish world, and frankly there is nothing wrong with that. The only thing is that we have to still do the things that G-d commanded us, like pray three times a day, keep kosher, celebrate the holidays, act and dress in a proper manner, and so on...

 

Its hard, and I try my best to do it, but honestly its one of the main reasons I want to move to Israel; so I can be a Jew with out having to struggle so hard. To be a Jew in a Jewish land. Thats all any Jew wants.

[Dawood]

You think it's tough being a Jew in America , try being a Muslim in America.

It's actually not all that rough, but like you said, there's always temptations tugging at you from every angle. Especially, now Ramadan is coming. I don't even come on 12 oz during ramadan except for once in a while. I was in Egypt last ramadan and it was 2000% better being in a land where everyone is fasting with you and the whole county , practically is breaking their fast when you are, and praying when you are, and beleiving what you beleive. I can relate, Mar. America with all of it's orderliness and freedom doesn't provide a religious enviroment to dedicate oneself to worshipping God. The materialism and worldly things take over and it's tough to be an effective worshipper in America unless you seclude yourself. I'm not an overly ascetic person, I pray 5 times a day, and keep away from the things that are forbidden for the most part.

As for interacting with Non Jews. You have to interact with non Jews, How could you not?

We live in America! I remember being in Brooklyn in a Jewish neighborhood where there was also a Mosque. We were walking around the neighborhood and a gang of Hasidic Jews wearing all black, riding in Black Yukons/suburbans and talking on Walkie talkies were following us everywhere we went. It was funny. I'm like Damn, I'm in Brooklyn, not Jerusalem. Dudes were trippin' Religious Jews always look at me like they want to fight me, but then they look away perplexed when I start smiling at them like they didn't expect that.

 

Jews, Christians and Muslims can live peacefully together without harming one another.

It happened during the lifetime of the prophet Muhammad (under Islamic Law) and it can happen again.

[MAR]

We can only hope.

[Cracked Ass]

Dawood, do you recognize the USA as a country? No sarcasm, it just fits the bill you cited for why you don't recognize Israel. Oppression, theft, & murder of native Americans is how things got started here.

[CILONE/SK]

I wonder how many people clicked on this thread thinking it was about "keeping blacky down" and found something else?

[CALIgula]

the u.s. has racism, but its more subtle (like theo was once saying in a thread he made)

but in certain "midwest" parts of the u.s. its more blatant.

im sure certain parts of europe are worse than us...but then again i think things have gotten better here since the 50's and 60's..maybe theres hope for europe too.

[Dawood]

Dawood, do you recognize the USA as a country? No sarcasm, it just fits the bill you cited for why you don't recognize Israel. Oppression, theft, & murder of native Americans is how things got started here.

 

 

well, it's difficult not to recognise it as a country since i live here, but since you put it like that....Maybe there's a statute of limitations. Maybe i'll start to recognise them in a few hundred years if I'm still alive.

Or maybe all the Jews will become muslim.