why did the wtc's collapse? conclusive proof

[russell jones]

hahaha so you think to destroy some paper trail of evidence for a conspiracy they concluded that the least conspicuous way to do it was to blow up an entire building right next to where the event took place? nice...

 

their paper shredder was malfunctioning that day. That proves that Taiwan was in on it.

[russell jones]

BTW, I better keep my posts down, I'd rather be a "member" than a "senior member." I got saggy enough nuts as is.

[Theo Huxtable.]

everything been debunked?

where is the fight 175 speed debunking?

you can concentrate on that right?

you just go ahead and say that new york was full of people that day.

thats what you put your mind into. not the facts.

 

thank you for showing me how unwilling to accept you all are.

have a nice miserable life.

 

 

 

wow you really are far-gone.

 

you're gonna actually contend on whether or not New York City was filled with people that day? there's 9 million people in NYC. over 2 million live in manhattan. it being a work day, the number increases by another million. do you think the city was evacuated by the governent and filled with government agents to lie about seeing a plane?

 

there's certain that don't even need any "researching". you may want to try using common sense. even the biggest idiots of all conspiracy theorists don't dispute that manhattan was filled with people that day.

[Theo Huxtable.]

no it was hit by debris that took out a 5 story chunk from its corner

 

try 18-20 stories. there's a picture of the side, showing a chunk starting from about the 18th floor going all the way to the bottom.

 

pretty significant damage. but don't ask me, ask the firefighters that assessed the damage and determined that there was a good chance it would collapse.

[Mellow]

if it was done by our government why did they do it this way? why a plane filled with hundreds of citizens? was it to be inconspicuous? thats what I dont understand

[After School Special]

South Park spoofs Truther morons

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/11/video-south-park-spoofs-truther-morons/

[After School Special]

9/11 - Why did Tower 7 really collapse?

 

Building debris.

 

End of story.

[lord_casek]

if it was done by our government why did they do it this way? why a plane filled with hundreds of citizens? was it to be inconspicuous? thats what I dont understand

 

 

that's the odd part to me to. OPERATION NORTHWOODS called for a plane to be filled with fbi agents posing as college kids. it was going to be a fake hijacking, they would drop the agents off, then remotely detonate explosives on an empty plane, blame it on cuba, then let the fireworks begin (invade cuba).

 

obviously, NORTHWOODS was never carried out, but the idea of it probably stuck around.

 

they've used false flag terrorism before. kermit roosevelt in iran, the gulf of tonkin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident

etc.

[lord_casek]

try 18-20 stories. there's a picture of the side, showing a chunk starting from about the 18th floor going all the way to the bottom.

 

pretty significant damage. but don't ask me, ask the firefighters that assessed the damage and determined that there was a good chance it would collapse.

 

 

did you watch final cut? they have some great video proof that 7 wasn't hurt as bad as you claim.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

if it was done by our government why did they do it this way? why a plane filled with hundreds of citizens? was it to be inconspicuous? thats what I dont understand

 

 

They wanted to make it seem like an act of terrorism (not that it wasn't). It would be pretty pointless to knock down a building with nobody in it, with no casualties what so ever. I don't think the war with Iraq would have started that way, at least.

[Mellow]

that's the odd part to me to. OPERATION NORTHWOODS called for a plane to be filled with fbi agents posing as college kids. it was going to be a fake hijacking, they would drop the agents off, then remotely detonate explosives on an empty plane, blame it on cuba, then let the fireworks begin (invade cuba).

 

obviously, NORTHWOODS was never carried out, but the idea of it probably stuck around.

 

they've used false flag terrorism before. kermit roosevelt in iran, the gulf of tonkin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident

etc.

 

thats interesting thanks for the links

[Juan Fuentes]

theo im not saying new york wasnt full of people.

im saying that you deniers focus on the section of the post that favors your tricky comebacks.(dont take it to the heart)

 

what the videos and facts show is what we should be focusing on.

if we have to accept reality as what the mayority of the people believe, then we wouldnt be free-thinkers.

a free-thinker leaves emotions and public opinion aside when analyzing something.

 

now, be a free thinker for some minutes and check out this comparison of michael hezarkhani's video frame that shows the "plane" approaching the building and a picture from battery park where seems to be about the same place mr hezarkhani shot the video(because of the proportions of the building's sides)

side the neighboring building positions?

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfskawDQ334

 

 

 

and, so that you know more about this guy. jeff hill from pumpitout.com calls mr hezarkhani.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CP-fxOez80

 

_____

 

this videos should be watched by everyone here. and i would like some debunking if possible.

stop talking about wtc7, it's too late to be wasting time with something that has been talked about more than 10 times in this thread without both sides being able to compromise 1% of their theories.

[El Mamerro]

That first one was one of the biggest wastes of two minutes I've experienced recently. The second one was mildly interesting with the call.

 

I guess my mind isn't free enough to be held captive by things like this, much less to bother debunking it.

[Juan Fuentes]

monkey-camming, flight 175's speed, and hezarkhani's ghostplane.

no debunkings, no words or relevance to the whats being pointed out.

but no recognition either.

what's going on?

[El Mamerro]

What's going on is I'm good friends with at least 4 people who were in NY that day, and saw two planes crash into the building. Actually that's a lie, only one saw both planes and the other three saw the second once they heard the first.

 

You can try to show me ridicuously over-analyzed grainy footage (THERE'S A POD UNDER THE PLANE THAT GETS BIGGER!!) till you're blue in the face, I'll stick to believing the people I trust who have no reason whatsoever to lie to me.

 

I'm half expecting you to suggest they were probably brainwashed by some Men in Black magic wand that told them it was planes.

[lord_casek]

trained in u.s. military bases.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0DEED7163BF935A2575AC0A9679C8B63

 

http://prisonplanet.com/alleged_hijackers_may_trained_us_bases.html

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=SCO20061008&articleId=3422

[Juan Fuentes]

mamerro, but the tapes say something else.

i dont believe it, because it's not a matter of believing.

it's a matter of accepting.

 

the videos show something else.

 

your friends might have seen something other than a plane, of maybe they saw the "white elephant" which was that plane circling the building that did not crashed against it.

ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tlz0qw4EcU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Io4Vpzmigo

specially this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YpcXJ1934s

short videos^

 

do you people believe yourselfs, like, what you see and hear? or you wait for others to tell you how it is?

because i've seen that you believe what's better for the side you are on.

is not about being is different groups.

free yourselves from your cults.

 

 

 

 

example:

if bin laden comes out and admits he stole my bike when i saw that my brother stole my bike why should i take what bin laden said? i might not want to think my brother is a thief?

and that's what i see in you all, yall dont check out the videos. yall stick to what "people said". people you love and care for, people that are your friends, people like the government that tells you that they protect you and care for you. but not your SELF.

[lord_casek]

2nd Witness Arrested

25 Held for Questioning

 

Guy Gugliotta and David S. Fallis Washington Post Staff Writers

September 16, 2001; Page A29

 

Investigators yesterday arrested a second person as a material witness in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and have detained 25 people on immigration violations for questioning, the Justice Department said.

 

A Justice Department official gave no details on the second arrest. On Friday, authorities arrested a man they were already holding on suspicion of having a false pilot's license.

 

Justice Department spokeswoman Mindy Tucker said that none of the 25 detainees had been charged with a crime and that several were cooperating. Department sources said two of the 25 were stopped at an Amtrak station in Fort Worth with $5,000 in cash and a box cutter, the same kind of knife used by the 19 hijackers who crashed four planes last Tuesday.

 

As the investigation gathered strength yesterday, unusual leads began to surface, among them the possibility that some of the hijackers may have received training at Pensacola Naval Air Station in Florida or other U.S. military facilities.

 

Two of 19 suspects named by the FBI, Saeed Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi, have the same names as men listed at a housing facility for foreign military trainees at Pensacola. Two others, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alnami, have names similar to individuals listed in public records as using the same address inside the base.

 

In addition, a man named Saeed Alghamdi graduated from the Defense Language Institute at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, while men with the same names as two other hijackers, Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari, appear as graduates of the U.S. International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala., and the Aerospace Medical School at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio, respectively.

 

"Some of the FBI suspects had names similar to those used by foreign alumni of U.S. military courses," the Air Force acknowledged in a statement. "However, discrepancies in their biographical data, such as birth dates 20 years off, indicate we are probably not talking about the same people."

 

Still, investigators built solid evidence on other suspects. In Germany, authorities linked a third hijacker to an alleged Islamic terrorist cell that operated in the northern city of Hamburg for years, and they seized "airplane-related documents" from his girlfriend's apartment.

 

German authorities said that Ziad Jarrahi, 27, who was aboard the hijacked plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, had lived for the past four years in Hamburg, sharing an apartment with Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi, another suspect. Jarrahi studied aircraft construction.

 

U.S. officials also confirmed yesterday that Khalid Al-Midhar, identified as one of the hijackers aboard the flight that crashed into the Pentagon, was spotted on a surveillance videotape from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, speaking with a suspect in last year's bombing of the destroyer USS Cole in the Yemeni port of Aden. The tape is another piece of circumstantial evidence linking the Sept. 11 attacks to exiled Saudi militant Osama bin Laden, who is suspected of masterminding the Cole bombing.

 

In India, Saudi diplomat Ahmed Alshehri, based in Bombay, denied that he was the father of hijacker Waleed M. Alshehri or that he had ever served in the United States. Diplomatic lists, however, show an Ahmed Alshehri as second secretary at the Saudi Embassy in Washington, and property records, law enforcement sources and witnesses have linked him with Waleed. Reports from a Saudi newspaper editor said yesterday that both Waleed and Wail Alshehri, another hijacker, were Ahmed's sons.

 

After the Justice Department released the names of the hijackers Friday, ordinary people began to realize, to their surprise, that they had encountered the suspects in their final days and hours.

 

At the Panther Motel, in Deerfield Beach, Fla., Richard Surma and his wife, Diane, remembered that hijacker Marwan Al-Shehhi and a man whose name they did not know had been their guests between Aug. 26 and Sept. 9.

 

The pair spent their time at the motel's small pool and had numerous visits from a third man. When Al-Shehhi checked out, his trash included flight training textbooks, a stack of air traffic maps, martial arts manuals and a box-cutting knife, the motel owners said.

 

"They were very neat and very polite," Richard Surma recalled. But he and his wife thought it was curious that the men had used a towel to cover a picture hanging in their room of a woman wearing a dress that exposed one shoulder.

 

In Fort Lee, N.J., Dave Hascup, manager of a Mail Boxes Etc. store in the Linwood Plaza Mall, said FBI and police officers interviewed him Wednesday about hijackers Nawaq Alhamzi and Salem Alhamzi, whom authorities said had a mailbox there.

 

"I sat in the back while [the FBI agents] checked the mailbox," Hascup said. "There are just some things you don't want to know."

 

Elsewhere, it was the incongruities that caught the attention of investigators. In Weehauken, N.J., authorities said teams of FBI agents searched a warehouse owned by Urban Moving Systems after neighbors spotted several employees jumping up and down in celebration soon after the World Trade Center attacks.

 

In Union City, N.J., FBI agents went door to door late Tuesday night and early Wednesday evening at the Doric, a high-rise apartment building, interviewing tenants and showing them photos of about a half dozen men who appeared to be in their late twenties or early thirties and of Middle Eastern descent.

 

The agents arrived after a Doric resident saw five men in the area of the apartment building, which had a good view of the World Trade Center, either taking photos or videotaping scenes from across the river shortly after the attack.

 

The Justice Department's Tucker said investigators across the country have conducted "hundreds of interviews." The first formal arrest came Friday, when a man was stopped at New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport for having a false pilot's license.

 

Tucker said a second arrest warrant was issued yesterday and the suspect taken into custody in New York. Officials declined to name either witness and said the records were sealed.

 

Federal investigators had hoped to obtain critical information about the hijackings from the downed planes' "black boxes," but the recorders on the jets that crashed into the Pentagon and into rural Pennsylvania were badly damaged, Tucker said, and are being returned to the manufacturer in hopes that some data can be retrieved. According to the Justice Department, there were cracks in the circuit boards of both of the black boxes aboard Flight 93.

 

Meanwhile, the Immigration and Naturalization Service was holding 25 people on a variety of infractions and questioning all of them about the Sept. 11 attacks, Tucker said. The two men detained Wednesday in Fort Worth were sent to New York.

 

Lori Bailey, an FBI spokeswoman in Dallas, said the two Fort Worth detainees were taken off the train by Drug Enforcement Administration agents conducting a routine narcotics sweep. They were riding from St. Louis, apparently having disembarked from an aircraft, and were en route to San Antonio, she said.

 

The pair told agents they were from India but had no documents. They were carrying $5,000 in cash and a box cutter, Bailey said.

 

In Maine, Portland Police Chief Michael Chitwood said yesterday that police and the FBI combed the city's Jetport parking lot before dawn Wednesday until they found the metallic blue rental Nissan Altima driven by Alomari and Mohamed Atta, then handed it over to FBI technicians who arrived early Thursday and worked on it until 9 p.m.

 

At Boston's Logan Airport, investigators discovered a bag left behind by Atta and containing a Saudi passport, an international driver's license, instructional videos for flying Boeing airliners, an Islamic prayer schedule and a suicide note written in Arabic, a source familiar with the investigation said.

 

And, in a security sweep of the Logan parking garage at 2 a.m. Thursday, investigators found a box cutter, a pamphlet written in Arabic and a credit card, items apparently discarded by the terrorists as they entered the airport.

 

Documents sent by the FBI to German police, and obtained by the German magazine Der Spiegel, indicate that some of the suspected hijackers aboard the plane that crashed into the Pentagon had purchased their tickets in tandem and through the most ordinary means.

 

Khalid Al-Midhar used a Daytona Beach address to book a reservation over the American Airlines Web site, using his frequent-flier number, which he had established the day before, according to FBI documents cited by the German magazine. He picked up the ticket at the Baltimore-Washington International Airport on Sept. 5, paying cash. His assigned seat was 12B.

 

Staff writers Marcia Slacum Greene, Scott Higham, Sari Horwitz, Serge F. Kovaleski, George Lardner Jr., Vernon Loeb, Michael Fletcher, Eric Pianin, and Cheryl W. Thompson and special correspondent Catherine Skipp contributed to this report. Correspondent Peter Finn reported from Germany.

[lord_casek]

http://web.archive.org/web/20011006133301/www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/news/091701/Local/ST001.shtml

http://web.archive.org/web/20011024161527/http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/local/2001/09/16reconstructingt.html

http://www.amanaonline.com/Articles/art_122.htm

[El Mamerro]

mamerro, but the tapes say something else.

i dont believe it, because it's not a matter of believing.

it's a matter of accepting.

 

the videos show something else.

 

Hahahaha, dude, you're hilarious. You are still trying to argue that watching edited videos on youtube is preferable than trustworthy firsthand accounts.

[the district]

Keep at it casek, respect... Its hard to display ones view with the chance that you could be wrong.

Of course everyones gonna say conspiracy theorists are "crazy".

Its easy to agree with the majority...

Someone has to ask questions though, or how much more power would they have if we didn't ?...

[Theo Huxtable.]

not only that but that video juan showed with the scottish bagpipe music, looked like they were still images from two different

 

the michael m. video still is from the south in battery park, and the building in the foreground of the other picture shows the verizon building, which is from the north.

 

you can't take a youtube member's photshopping and windows-movie-maker usage as "proof".

 

here's the verizon building, which sits north of the WTC... looks just like the building in the video

 

[lord_casek]

Keep at it casek, respect... Its hard to display ones view with the chance that you could be wrong.

Of course everyones gonna say conspiracy theorists are "crazy".

Its easy to agree with the majority...

Someone has to ask questions though, or how much more power would they have if we didn't ?...

 

 

eh, they know i'm not crazy. i don't care about proving anything to them nowdays, though,.

i just want to show them that there are questions that have never even been brought up in mainstream media. shit that should be questioned.

 

that 9/11 commission was a fraud. i think we all know that.

[Juan Fuentes]

thank you theo for taking a look to what im bringing.

now...

 

yes, you are right on the building. looks like it was a mistake due to the video poster and me hurrying up too much, good that you found that. now.

verizon building:

which brings more arguying and discussion that i wish not to take part of, because it is obvious how the verizon building is closer to WTC1, and older, than WTC7. but it got no damage, so there is where i stop and know what is up, no need to fight it.

 

__________

_____________

__________

 

going back to hezarkhani and his tape.

 

 

another thing about hezarkhani's video, is the size comparing it to the towers.

 

the Whitehall Building. 30 stories tall.

the line marks the end of battery part, where mr Hezarkhani should have been when he filmed it.

the towers are taller than the towers in the video.

 

for you to think about: (why was it so hard to talk about that is something you should be asking yourself, because that man didnt wanted to say where he shot it from)

 

 

you see the comparison? the Whitehall building its too tall in mr Hezarkhani's video. or the towers are too short. it's out of proportion

 

here:

some futher prove with a video with 2 images, one before and one after the attack.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKe5vnitDR8

 

also the towers look too close the Whitehall, and they are very far from eachother.

 

 

__

 

a little something about Whitehall building decoration.

its maker's god.

[lord_casek]

bael?

[Juan Fuentes]

whatever name you might want to call him...still is the same rebel.

[Theo Huxtable.]

i guess you "tv fakery" conspiracy theorists are the new generation of 9/11 inside-jobbers (and 50 times nuttier).

 

you guys have really gone too far. you have lost all means of rational and critical thinking, and i feel sorry you. there's no way that every person in new york with a handheld camera was "in on it" and had their video doctored to put planes in it. there's no way that hundreds of thousands of witnesses that saw the planes hit the building are lying about seeing a plane. there's no way that all of these news organizations doctored their videos, and that their video wasn't a live feed. there were people watching the world trade center from the windows of their apartment buildings, with the news on, and saw the planes hit the buildings both on tv and in person at the same time (i've seen several amateur video shot from other buildings, and you could hear the TV on in the background). did you ever consider any of this juan?

 

and i don't even think the Loose Change or Alex Jones crowd even believes that TV fakery bullshit. otherwise they would've mentioned it in their videos, and they wouldn't have contended that two planes did indeed hit the buildings.

[Juan Fuentes]

that sounds like a personal attack with a mixture concentration on obvious events to deter discussion of the facts.

typical of you.

 

mentioning that there was a lot of people and there was amateur cameras that caught the planes. does not PROVE anything.

 

now, who are these amateurs?...when we talk about amateur videos.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbYAV5fCGiM

 

there you go, 911 amateurs, part 1(more parts to come soon, Godwilling).

you cant debunk that, you never will. please try!!! please.

(if you even take a look at it)

(non-deniers, you all are less close minded, take a look, youll see what im talking about)

 

___

 

important, i must add.

 

remembering oldschool 911 memories, very after that 11th of september 2001 day, pilots, aviation experts saying the boeings maneuvers contradicted/failed the software, or some type of thing, in the plane, that didnt let it do such sharp maneuvers. yall remember that?

(cant seem to find the article, but i heard it on tv)

 

and that first loose change video, showing the light up of the tip as it enters the building...you can see in that shot how it disappears before touching the face of the building, then the dust mini explosions. and in other shots, from the front, like hezarkhani's you can even see a little explosion underneath the right engine where nothing of that "plane" hit.

 

 

the frist frame, look at how the nose looks like it retracts.

there in no fuel in the nose, so there cant be an ignition or that size, ever.

[vanfullofretards]

You. Are. An. Idiot.

 

 

 

 

 

*edit... Oooops nevermind, I'm the idiot and have just been brainwashed by rationality. My bad.

[Juan Fuentes]

that just made YOU an idiot.

you cant say anything about the post.

 

havent i just pointed this is typical of you all.

please change the script.