discussion on the nature of the creator of the heavens and earth

[Dawood]

Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, and the ships which sail through the sea with that which is of use to mankind, and the water (rain) which Allâh sends down from the sky and makes the earth alive therewith after its death, and the moving (living) creatures of all kinds that He has scattered therein, and in the veering of winds and clouds which are held between the sky and the earth, are indeed Ayât (proofs, evidences, signs, etc.) for people of understanding. (Al-Baqarah 2:164)

 

 

 

 

you can only answer with, what your religion tells you. You lack the very ability to think for yourself. Which is why I said, put your religious belief aside.

.

 

it's funny, we are all slaves to something. Our Jobs, our desires, money....pick your poison.

I'd rather be a slave to the most merciful creator than to my own lowly desires. Not to mention, your desires will betray you while God will keep his promise.

Ok, so the next time you type me a message, put all your beleifs aside. Just because billions of people beleive the same thing I beleive doesn't make my beleif invalid and your beleif (or unbeleif) valid because you can cut and paste it as you like.

 

 

What I do appreciate however about your response is that you continuously say “I believe” or “we believe” that lets me know that to some degree you know that Islam and its teachings are YOUR belief – only. Belief does not equate to truth – because truth is relative only to the person who believes it. There is no absolute truth – about anything.

 

I say that simply out of respect for the fact that you don't beleive what I do and I'm acknowledging that. Don't interpret that into me not beleiving that I am upon an eternal truth that was revealed to mankind in order to guide them to the most beneficial life.

(sorry for the run on sentence) I'm in certainty about Islam, although I have to admit that

at death I'll be exposed to the ultimate certainty because the veil will be lifted to the hereafter and the absolute truth will be shown to all of us.

 

In the long run I evolved and learned that evidence is not proof. .

 

there are two types of evidence, intellectual evidence and textual evidence.Examples of The intellectual evidence , I posted above in that verse from the quran. And the textual evidence is from the quran and the teachings of the prophets. All brought together, they form a complete understading that, some people reject due to following their desires.

 

I do believe in a creator, a supreme power The Force if you will, so I am not a pure atheist – but I do not believe religion justifies it or explains it….by its very nature religion cannot fully explain anything other than itself. .

 

 

So, Do you beleive God is all knowledgable and just?

 

 

Two people populated the entire planet in a few thousand years – that’s not logical. Immaculate conception? That’s not logical.

Also – like you –.[/quote

 

two people populating the planet in a few thousand years....that's a christian thing. Don't pin that on Islam.

 

Immaculate conception? That’s not logical.

.[/quote

 

 

why is immaculate conception not logical? Do you beleive that God is not capable of that?

If you say that he is not capable , then you don't really beleive in God because you place linitations on him. The first step in beleiving in God is knowing who God is and what he is capable of.

 

. To quote Erikah Badu “the man that knows something knows that he knows nothing at all” That is the comfort zone I exist in daily.[/quote

 

I like Erikah badu...and that's a good quote. It's a true and humble quote.

[~>MooseKnuckle<~]

Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, and the ships which sail through the sea with that which is of use to mankind, and the water (rain) which Allâh sends down from the sky and makes the earth alive therewith after its death, and the moving (living) creatures of all kinds that He has scattered therein, and in the veering of winds and clouds which are held between the sky and the earth, are indeed Ayât (proofs, evidences, signs, etc.) for people of understanding. (Al-Baqarah 2:164)

 

Good, now say that in your own words, not quotes from the qur-an.

 

The rising of the sun moon and stars, the ebb and flow of the tides, the revolution of moon around earth, earth around sun, the volcanoes and earthquakes that make new land for life to generate grow and flourish, the mutation of cells, the conception of life, the blooming of flowers in may right on time all the time are all driven by that energy – life energy which is what you (and the like) call god. The difference is I can say all that and a lot more without reading it in a book. Because I believe that before that book all these things happened and after the book all these things will continue to happen. So again to say “for people of understanding, these things are proofs, evidences signs” I take this to mean that believers of Islam are the only ones who can understand these proofs, evidences, signs? I mean just so that I am clear on what you are saying. Because if that’s what you are saying then someone who understands those things but does not accept Islam (or Christianity, or Judaism or whatever) is not in gods grace or is destin to some sort of undesirable hereafter. Again, I’m just trying to be clear on what you are saying because all you have really done here is quoted the quran.

 

it's funny, we are all slaves to something. Our Jobs, our desires, money....pick your poison.

I'd rather be a slave to the most merciful creator than to my own lowly desires. Not to mention, your desires will betray you while God will keep his promise.

Ok, so the next time you type me a message, put all your beleifs aside. Just because billions of people beleive the same thing I beleive doesn't make my beleif invalid and your beleif (or unbeleif) valid because you can cut and paste it as you like.

 

Slave – well if you want to consider yourself a slave that is your prerogative. I’m not a slave to anything – or at least I don’t believe I am. You may believe I am. I work because I choose to, because I desire certain comforts in life. If I chose not to want or desire those things, then I wouldn’t work. I desire to eat sushi – in order to do that, according to my belief, I have to work. If I didn’t want to work, I could be a thief or a bum. Again it is my choice.

 

Quite frankly I would never serve or accept a god who would want me to be a slave for anything. What is always hard for me to accept is that the guy who plays god in most religions always wants something. Worship, obedience, faith, power etc. Im not sure if I want a god that has desires. Many of these desires sound a lot like the things man desire. If ‘god’ is the creator of all things that why does he/she/it need them from you. To me that’s a flaw, and if were talking about god here, or a relationship with god (because that’s all religion is) then my friend, I need it to be perfect and without flaw. I find it very hard to believe god endorses any of these things. What would be the point? But I do see the point in man wanting these things, especially from the masses.

 

Just because billions of people believe in something doesn’t make it an absolute truth. History is riddled with ‘truths’ held by the masses. The world is flat, the earth is the center of the universe, weapons of mass destruction – I mean shall I go on. The masses usually believe in things they don’t understand because it is so much easier to follow than it is to think for oneself and draw ones own conclusions.

I never said your belief was invalid, I am not in the position to say what you believe is invalid – you believe in what works for you, what gets you through the day and through the rest of your life. More importantly, my beliefs do not require you to believe what I believe. I practice what I preach. My beliefs are just that – MY beliefs. I believe that Shore is fresher than Bates. Is he? I believe so – but that’s all that is – my belief, my opinion.

 

I say that simply out of respect for the fact that you don't beleive what I do and I'm acknowledging that. Don't interpret that into me not beleiving that I am upon an eternal truth that was revealed to mankind in order to guide them to the most beneficial life. (sorry for the run on sentence) I'm in certainty about Islam, although I have to admit that at death I'll be exposed to the ultimate certainty because the veil will be lifted to the hereafter and the absolute truth will be shown to all of us.

 

there are two types of evidence, intellectual evidence and textual evidence. Examples of The intellectual evidence , I posted above in that verse from the quran. And the textual evidence is from the quran and the teachings of the prophets. All brought together, they form a complete understading that, some people reject due to following their desires.

 

Yeah, but neither type of evidence equals proof. Your interpretation is what you believe to be understanding. The same brand of evidence was used in the 17th century to justify the African slavery in America. Words (especially written words) are the most dangerous form of communication because they are open to interpretation. That includes the words in the pages of your qur-an.

 

So if you do not follow the qur-an you lack understanding? I mean is that what you are saying? Again just want to clarify.

 

So, Do you beleive God is all knowledgable and just?

 

I believe the term God is insufficient. But yes I believe that supreme energy, that life force, the creator of all things is all knowing and just. – obviously.

 

two people populating the planet in a few thousand years....that's a christian thing. Don't pin that on Islam.

 

Pin that on Islam????? disappointing but not unexpected. I used that as an analogy because I don’t know enough about islam to find a flaw like that. To which you may rebut – why would you look for a flaw? because flaws are illogical and you relationship with the All in All should be flawless – or at least that’s what I believe.

 

why is immaculate conception not logical? Do you beleive that God is not capable of that?

If you say that he is not capable , then you don't really beleive in God because you place linitations on him. The first step in beleiving in God is knowing who God is and what he is capable of.

 

I don’t believe in God the way you do, so I don’t believe god is a he, or a she or a god. The universal life force is above gender. To humanize it and dumb it down for the masses, religion has to assign it a gender. But yes I believe the creator is capable of anything. that much is obvious, but spontaneous generation is at best a theory. So until it is proven to me, no I don’t believe it. To borrow a phrase from the Christians, through Christ all things are possible. I can get with part of that – all things are possible – just not through another man who’s name happens to be Jesus. I don’t believe things just because it is a commonly held belief. I’m the kind of person that needs proof. I don’t deal in blind faith or charismatic words in the pages of a book – even if that book is the most popular book in the history of the world. It has been proven to me that 2+2 is 4, so i can roll with that one. God created the earth in 7 days - proove it. Islam is a superior religion - proove it. make it so there is no wiggle room or space for skepticism. you cant. all you can do is deliver evidence provided by religious schollars who believe the same as you.

[~>MooseKnuckle<~]

Anyway. It's like this. Muslim women are not allowed to marry non muslim men. Totally forbidden in Islam, no question....

 

i knew it wouldnt be long. but here for example - does Allah forbid this or does someones interpretation of 'Allah's' words in the quran forbid this? is this the direct word of Allah, or is the interpretation of doctrine? even if it says this in the quran, verbatum, it is still open to interpretation.

[soupBDC]

HURRAY THIS THREAD CAN END NOW!

http://www.ZEITGEISTMOVIE.COM/

 

ITS ALL RELIGION HAS EVER BEEN IS AN ALLEGORICAL MYTH TO EXPLAIN ASTROLOGY!!

[the.crooked]

already been put into the thread. and had some threads started on it. I saw it as the end of the good discussions on this board.

[Dawood]

Good, now say that in your own words, not quotes from the qur-an.

 

The best speech is the speech of Allah. I could re phrase it, but why? It makes the point as is.

 

The rising of the sun moon and stars, the ebb and flow of the tides, the revolution of moon around earth, earth around sun, the volcanoes and earthquakes that make new land for life to generate grow and flourish, the mutation of cells, the conception of life, the blooming of flowers in may right on time all the time are all driven by that energy – life energy which is what you (and the like) call god. The difference is I can say all that and a lot more without reading it in a book. Because I believe that before that book all these things happened and after the book all these things will continue to happen. So again to say “for people of understanding, these things are proofs, evidences signs” I take this to mean that believers of Islam are the only ones who can understand these proofs, evidences, signs? I mean just so that I am clear on what you are saying. Because if that’s what you are saying then someone who understands those things but does not accept Islam (or Christianity, or Judaism or whatever) is not in gods grace or is destin to some sort of undesirable hereafter. Again, I’m just trying to be clear on what you are saying because all you have really done here is quoted the quran.

 

Let me clear something up here. The quran is not the first revelation to mankind. It's the last. THere were NUMEROUS prophets sent to every nation to call them to worship the one true creator. And yes, to answer your question. If a person does not accept Islam he will be with the losers on the Day of Judgement for following his own desires and oppressing his ownself instead of joining the company of the beleivers and giving thanks to the one who created him and continues to provode for him.. No Doubt.

 

 

 

Slave – well if you want to consider yourself a slave that is your prerogative. I’m not a slave to anything – or at least I don’t believe I am. You may believe I am. I work because I choose to, because I desire certain comforts in life. If I chose not to want or desire those things, then I wouldn’t work. I desire to eat sushi – in order to do that, according to my belief, I have to work. If I didn’t want to work, I could be a thief or a bum. Again it is my choice.

 

Don't get me wrong. Work is good, it builds character, and provides a means of gathering the blessings of Allah (God) As well as makes you free from needing to beg or steal.

The word "slave" has a negative connotation in America because of American history, so we can use the word servent if you'd like. In reality, it's an arabic word "Abd" which means worshipper, slave, servant. And these terms are not derogatory at all. In fact, we can only measure our goodness according to who is closer to the creator, since all things come from him. (btw..Allah(God) has no gender, but I'll explain more later)

 

 

 

Quite frankly I would never serve or accept a god who would want me to be a slave for anything. What is always hard for me to accept is that the guy who plays god in most religions always wants something. Worship, obedience, faith, power etc. Im not sure if I want a god that has desires. Many of these desires sound a lot like the things man desire. If ‘god’ is the creator of all things that why does he/she/it need them from you. To me that’s a flaw, and if were talking about god here, or a relationship with god (because that’s all religion is) then my friend, I need it to be perfect and without flaw. I find it very hard to believe god endorses any of these things. What would be the point? But I do see the point in man wanting these things, especially from the masses.

 

Ok, again, you missed the point, or maybe, more likely, I didn't expalin myself well enough. A person worshippes God, not because God needs anything from us, but because the person needs to worship. We are in need of God, not the other way around.God already owns and controls everything. And muslims do not beleive that God is a person or anything like a person, nor does God have a Gender. He says in the quran that there is nothing like him or similar to him. That God is unique in every aspect. So, in truth, The servant is elevated by being the best servant he can be. Otherwise, the only thing he is doing if he's not serving God is serving his own desires all day.

 

Just because billions of people believe in something doesn’t make it an absolute truth. History is riddled with ‘truths’ held by the masses. The world is flat, the earth is the center of the universe, weapons of mass destruction – I mean shall I go on. The masses usually believe in things they don’t understand because it is so much easier to follow than it is to think for oneself and draw ones own conclusions.

 

Fair enough, but still God is Just and his message should be simple enough for the masses to understand without having to become a rocket scientist. No?

 

 

Yeah, but neither type of evidence equals proof. Your interpretation is what you believe to be understanding. The same brand of evidence was used in the 17th century to justify the African slavery in America. Words (especially written words) are the most dangerous form of communication because they are open to interpretation. That includes the words in the pages of your qur-an.

 

Not exactly, In islam, we have a unique system of interpretation that is standard and has a unique science of authentication that uses very strict qualifications.

The quran was revealed to the prophet Muhammad and while verses were being revealed the prophet would recite them, then expalin them to his companions. These statements and actions are called "hadith" and they accompany the Quran to explain it's meanings. Although, humans are humans and people go astray for various reasons. But the interpretation is not open. It's fixed although some differences of opinion exist on some side issues, not the meat and potatoes. (unless you include the groups like the shia and the nation of islam who created their own religion)

 

 

 

So if you do not follow the qur-an you lack understanding? I mean is that what you are saying? Again just want to clarify.

 

YES! ha,ha...of course! If you don't read the quran, then How can you understand what is in it? Have you read the quran? If not read it....(the noble quran english translation is the best translation and closest to the original arabic)

 

 

So, Do you beleive God is all knowledgable and just?

 

I believe the term God is insufficient. But yes I believe that supreme energy, that life force, the creator of all things is all knowing and just. – obviously.

 

I beleive the Term God is insufficient as well. In the quran God calls himself "Allah" which means (not just God) but "the God" meaning the TRUE GOD.

 

Ok, Good, so you beleive that God (Allah) is all knowing and just. So do you think this All knowing and Just creator would create us with no purpose or guidance?

Shouldn't there be an easy way to just comply with the wishes of the all knowing creator?

Do we have to become scholars and scientists and fly to the moon on the free thinking spaceship before we can just simply thank him for EVERYTHING? Because that's what it comes down to, being grateful and thanking the one who gives you everything. It seems like you're on the right track in terms of thinking for yourself, because in reality.... Society steers you clear of Islam. It's not popular, the news says it's a terrorist religion. Popular culture tells you it's not cool to be a muslim, be 50 cent or whoever. Free thinking led me to Islam....think freely, that's excellent, just thank God for the invaluable blessing of being able to think freely because of his generosity on you.

 

 

two people populating the planet in a few thousand years....that's a christian thing. Don't pin that on Islam.

 

Pin that on Islam????? disappointing but not unexpected. I used that as an analogy because I don’t know enough about islam to find a flaw like that. To which you may rebut – why would you look for a flaw? because flaws are illogical and you relationship with the All in All should be flawless – or at least that’s what I believe.

 

just saying, Islam doesn't beleive that the world was created like 5000 years ago.

I can't speak for anyone elses way of life. As for being flawless. Nothing is flawless.

Only Allah. We're humans and we're full of flaws.

 

 

 

I don’t believe in God the way you do, so I don’t believe god is a he, or a she or a god. The universal life force is above gender. To humanize it and dumb it down for the masses, religion has to assign it a gender. But yes I believe the creator is capable of anything. that much is obvious, but spontaneous generation is at best a theory. So until it is proven to me, no I don’t believe it. To borrow a phrase from the Christians, through Christ all things are possible. I can get with part of that – all things are possible – just not through another man who’s name happens to be Jesus. I don’t believe things just because it is a commonly held belief. I’m the kind of person that needs proof. I don’t deal in blind faith or charismatic words in the pages of a book – even if that book is the most popular book in the history of the world. It has been proven to me that 2+2 is 4, so i can roll with that one. God created the earth in 7 days - proove it. Islam is a superior religion - proove it. make it so there is no wiggle room or space for skepticism. you cant. all you can do is deliver evidence provided by religious schollars who believe the same as you.

 

I'm with you 100 % on the gender thing. (as I said above) Allah says in the quran that there is nothing similar or comparable to him. So we don't beleive that God is in any way a human or similar to anything in his creation. Not Jesus, not Muhammad, nothing, Allah is Unique.

 

As for needing proof. Well, you have no proof for God, then why do you believe in God?

It's only logical that if you already beleive in God (which is something imbedded in humans to beleive in God) to conclude that God may want something from you in return for everything he provides for you. And he does. (I only say "he" for lack of a better term)

All God wants is for you to thank him. On top of that, he taught us the best way of thanks.

So easy.

 

Zed, enjoy corresponding with you. I think this is what crossfire is about.

Most everybody in here disagrees with me on this issue, but I'm not shaken by it.

I like to share Ideas. It makes me question things, so sometimes I have to go back and rethink...study. It actually stregnthens my faith the more I talk about it.

[~>MooseKnuckle<~]

and i too. i too enjoy sharing ideas. and debating/discussing topics relating to philosophy and religon. i enjoy asking the tough questions. im not versed enough to really participate in many of the polotical discussions on this board as current events are not really my strong point. but i had fun with this. so in your words i say As-Salaam-Alaikum.

[Cracked Ass]

Dawood: I'd like to juxtapose two of your quotes from your response to Zed.

I can't speak for anyone elses way of life.

This is a sensible and humble approach, and frankly it makes it easier for me to respect where you're coming from. But you may want to notice some places where you violate it:

We are in need of God, not the other way around.

(which is something imbedded in humans to beleive in God)

These statements are false in my book. But you generalized them to all humans, so you are essentially trying to speak for my way of life.

There are other times where you lump "nonbelievers" together and make assumptions about them. Your assumptions are true for some nonbelievers, false for others. One in particular is the dichotomy you set up, that a person either worships Allah or is a degenerate fool consumed by his own desires. I do not fit either of these descriptions.

You say the Arabic word for slave is not derogatory. Is that true of the Arabic word for nonbeliever?

[~>MooseKnuckle<~]

this is one of the admissions i was trying to bring out of dawood. is the non believer who is a good, just and moral person doomed to hellfire or a degenerate fool just because he dosent accept a particular doctrine or organized set of rules? because by that reasoning the imoral unjust person who DOES accept that doctrine will get over in the long run. the catholic priest who likes little boys will get over because after all the foul behavior he will still get into heaven because he asked for forgiveness. So will fanatic who flies a plane into a building killing thousands because HE believes it is the will of allah(im only comparing the two in principle). so if cracked is a moral just person he lives right and loves himself and others respects the earth and the heavens, dosent beat his wife, helps his fellow man etc. etc. is he still going to hell because he dosent accept doctrine? do you really believe god gets down like that?

[Dawood]

When i said Ican't speak for anyone elses way of life what i meant was that I can't begin to speak with knowledge on other peoples beliefs.

And for sure there are different levels of people on all spectrums.

I still say that the worst beleiver is better than the best disbeleiver, though.

 

The reason I say that is this. If a person does good to satisfy their own desire to be do-gooder. What did he acheive? On the other hand if a person does good to please God as an

act of thankfulness for the blessings he's received then hasn't he acheived more than the one who did it to satisfy himself?

Actions are by intention and a seemingly good deed could turn out to be a bad deed because of intentions.

Cracked, In reality I can't fit you into any neat little box, but if you're not a beleiver, then you're a disbeleiver and the term for disbeleiver is very derogatory.

In my eyes the worst crime on the planet is to disbeleive in the Almighty God. Not to simply be ignorant , because ignorance is an excuse, but the one who knows, who it's been made clear to is not ignorant. And still if he or she rejects the beleif that none has the right to be worshipped except the almighty God that created them, then this is pure disbeleif and rejection of every good. (Not doctrine Zed)

You don't have to know every little detail of Islamic rules and regulations to be saved from hell. The main thing is that you bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped in truth except the one who created you. And I can't see why anyone would reject that unless they've already been corrupted by some manmade beleif.

 

There is no compulsion in religion, though, and people are free to choose their own beleifs.

I'm just speaking for myself.

[the.crooked]

compulsion and choice are roughly the same. it just depends on the perspective, the chooser or watching the choice be made to determine where the compulsion lie.

[Fist 666]

i haven't looked at this thread since about page 5... al hamdu lilaah... just browsed this one.

 

One of the things that got me interested was that he didn't shy away, in fact pointed out, the reality that there are literally thousands of disaffected and uneducated people today who embrace atheism and (at least) hundreds of super educated scientists/biologists who are devout believers...

 

 

there are also (at least) hundreds of super educated scientists/biologists who are "devout" atheists... the religious scientists have always stumped me.

 

my experience is this: i've grown up in a very, very strict christian home, my parents were always very highly respected people and sunday dinners at our home. doctors were very common among those that would visit us. as a passionate young disbeliever i would talk to them about why they live on faith when their science tends to point in other directions (arguable, i know). many of the responses i was given were told to me in confidence. ultimately faith was how they were raised, they had inherited "their" religion through tradition and upbringing, but ultimately they did not accept the bible as any sort of absolute. they did the "christian thing" for wives or family...

 

of course there are the scientists who do believe in 6 day creation and that the earth is under 20,000 (if not 10,000) years old. that dinosaurs lived alongside man and of course that the great flood created the grand canyon and killed the dinosaurs (but noah saved all the others...)

 

i don't care. i'm an atheist because my breakdown of life gives no evidence toward a creator, let alone a personal god. i like characters like dawood because he has actually asked questions, he's a little charismatic for my tastes, but he's done far more research and spent more time learning about what he believes than most people will ever do, atheist or faithful.

 

carry on...

[Dawood]

that Dawood sure is a charismatic character, huh?

[Fist 666]

naam. huwa thekie walakin huwa mutahemin khatariaj

 

i hate romanizing...

[Prime Chaos]

I thought it would be an interesting thread to talk about what people beleived about God. I always meet people and we discuss what God is and what God wants etc. according to their outlook. I find the concept of God truly amazing, and I am curious to know what other people think about God, whether you beleive or not, Explain why you beleive or why you don't beleive.

 

Please keep it respectful, keep in mind there are people who strongly beleive in God and negative comments will hinder the bulding process .Again, Lets talk about the nature of God , not politics ,world events or religious side issues. There are plenty of threads to talk about politics ,world events or religious side issues.

 

This should be a healthy debate, not a slander session.

...

[Dawood]

naam. huwa thekie walakin huwa mutahemin khatariaj

 

i hate romanizing...

 

Tarjim? Ana laa afham al kalimaat...mutahemin khatariaj...maa ma'ana haatha?

[Fist 666]

i was trying to say "dangerously confident" haha.

uncle sam is paying me to learn MSA, so i'm trying.

[Dawood]

cool, I should get down with that program. I'd get paid to learn arabic. No doubt.

I can read/speak pretty well but I don't always know what certain words are espacially

from transliteration.

[dowmagik]

quit that devil speak - youre gonna get 12oz flagged by the feds.

[the.crooked]

^real talk.

[Dawood]

Devil speak? shut the fuck up faggot...eat a dick...Terrorists don't transliterate their arabic into english, stupid. Mind your business.

[the.crooked]

it's a joke dawood.

 

 

with all we talk about big brother and internet spyin, i figured that would be evident.

[Fist 666]

cool, I should get down with that program. I'd get paid to learn arabic. No doubt.

I can read/speak pretty well but I don't always know what certain words are espacially

from transliteration.

 

transliteration sucks. the first month of class thats almost all i relied on for vocab, and when it comes to quick memorization i make flashcards with the transliterations instead of writing in arabic, and it is good for that, but its so inhibiting... its an easy crutch and really inhibits me from actually learning the language....

 

as far as "getting down with the program" it involves giving 8 years to the us army... most people aren't too interested in that committment

[Dawood]

ha, yeah definately not me.

[Fist 666]

yeah, that doesn't really surprise me.

[Dawood]

it's a joke dawood.

 

 

with all we talk about big brother and internet spyin, i figured that would be evident.

 

It's not really funny to me at all. I don't get offended by people who clown about terrorism or whatever because there are muslim terrorists out there who are a MINORITY , maybe 1% of muslims who support terrorism (as opposed to 50% of americans who support terrorism)

They even have little ribbons stuck to their cars supporting terrorists. (and i'm not throwing you under the bus fist 666, I don't think all american soldiers like killing innocent people.)

 

What I am offended by is when you call the pure language of Arabic "devil speak". Arabic is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY older than english and was the language chosen by the Lord of the worlds to reveal his last revelation in. Not to menton it is the language of Heaven. The language of many of the prophets, the angels etc.

 

English is a backwards language. ALL the original languages were written right to left.

English is written left to right. Don't read too far into that , though. I said backwards, so take from it whatever you want.

 

And if you think the feds aren't already watching this site or spying around in it with all the talk of "bombing" and the rest of the criminal talk that goes on here, then you're buggin'.

 

I'm over it , though...this is the internet, not my real life.

[CILONE/SK]

was the language chosen by the Lord of the worlds to reveal his last revelation in. Not to menton it is the language of Heaven. The language of many of the prophets, the angels etc.

 

Dawood, I respect you and how you feel about your religion. I wish I could feel that strongly about something. But what gets me about all religous people is when they say something as fact when it is actually only something they believe. I know you believe what you wrote, but how does that prove anything? Heaven, prophets, angels, lord of worlds, all of it is not provable and is only what that person believes.

[the.crooked]

thats the point. who gives a fuck what language it is. i dont. your right, english is a pretty stupid language, but you know, so are all languages. communication is at the heart of language, and if it does that then it works. it doesn't mean it is great, but it works. believe me, i get blasted all the time in my writing for not following bullshit rules of english grammar. I know all about its technical shortcomings.

 

 

however, just cus someone jokingly called arabic the devil tongue, i don't think was actually insinuating that it is spawned of the devil. i think it was an ironic statement made to be from the perspective of ignorance. not an actual warning for you to stop speaking arabic.

 

and as for the big brother thing, whatever man, privacy doesn't exist, i could give a fuck.

[Dawood]

crook, no doubt, I'm not all bent up over it.

 

CILONE, I speak that way because I believe it to be fact. It may not be that way for everyone.

I understand that, but the fact that not everyone believes what I believe shouldn't make me re-arrange my words to fit everyone else's terms , right? You know what I mean when I say what I say. Most of the people I'm around are all muslims and we speak to eachother in those terms, so it's from habit I suppose as well.

[CILONE/SK]

I understand, but whne someone talks to me like that, I automatically dismiss what they are saying because it is not a hard fact to me. I do not really talk to muslims that much, but holy roller Catholics do this alot. they say something about their beliefs and automatically think that what they are saying is a well known fact, when actually it is just what they believe.

 

I do not think that you should re-arrange your words for everyone, but I do think that you should try to come across more as "this is what I believe" then "this is what is fact". As for me, I would like to know more about your beliefs, seriously, but I do not like the "this is what I believe and that is all there is" way alot of religious people talk.