Dawood Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 What does religion have to do with creation? :confused: Can you elaborate on that question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 no, cus he hasn't read any of the thread... and thus missed many discussions that could have answered that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivre Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 haha, pilgrimage to mecca! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acephale Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 no, cus he hasn't read any of the thread... and thus missed many discussions that could have answered that statement. I've read a few pages, but not the whole thing. Now I could be wrong but most if it seems like people are just arguing about religion, that sort of thing. To elaborate on the question... I think it stands on its own. Religion largely has nothing to do with understanding creation, or "the nature of the creator of the heavens and the earth". If the statement has been answered, please do enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 well, I suppose I meant that a connection would be implied by the readings of the thread. There is a lot of discussion in the last twenty pages or so of the relationship between metaphysics, creation, religous beliefs about creation, necessary truths, contingent truth, normative ideals in relation to religion, and all of knowledge in general. So, perhaps my statement was a bit mis-stated. Here it is thusly: There are a lot of well thought out, articulated and existing statements that are good reading enough to suggest many of our thoughts about such a connection between religion and the concept of existential creation. And thus stating a question like that doesn't really do much but rehash much of what has been stated. Anywho, to perhaps give some what of a brief answer: All of us have beliefs of somekind that stem from the simplest terms of 'the grass is green' to the conceptually abstract such as 'there exists a subjective connection between reality and the terms used to express such.' When it comes to the concept of how it is that we are here, many people hold statements such as 'god created the universe' to be absolutely true. In the belief of the meaning behind the syntax there is then a necessary connection between the concept of 'god' and the concept of the action of 'creation.' Also, keeping in mind that there lies a truth value with the statement, then suggests that all contradictory statements are with a truth value of falsehood. Thus to a devoit southern baptist, the statement 'the universe did not need a God to be created' would be intuitively and necessarily false. Regardless of the epistemological/ontological schema behind the statement (science). So, then if there is a connection as stated, all statements relating to such basic statements like that contain relative false and truthood comparative to the most basic metaphysical beliefs of that person. So, if the language of religion is what you know and believe then it makes sense that you would use it to speak of such conceptually abstract concepts as creation of existence. Particularly if there are explicit discussions of such questions already contained in the dogma you are espousing. Christianity, Islam, and all other theo/ideological standpoints have metaphysical claims about the beginnings of existence and time and thusly stand as potential lexicons from which we can draw upon within our own discussions. A la Dawood with Islam, Me with general philosophy and physics, Module x with physics, fermentor with cynicism, AOD with libertarian bullshit, casek with alien crazies, russel, mams, larry, etc. (i keed i keed) Basically, we all have our own language of speaking about creation, and whatever that entails. But we necessarily have terms we associate with it. Most happen to ascribe to some sort of religious beliefs, and necessarily to the basic claims about creation those views entail. So, much of the discussion in this thread is based around such. The clarification of terms, reduction of conceptual parallels, arguments of normative ethics. Which can all be thought of as a process of explicit revision in our own understanding of other beliefs which are not are own, but which leads to a fuller more implicit understanding of our own. By forcing eachother to speak on our own terms but to find enough shared conceptual landscape we must discuss most aspects of all our views, be it from creation to random aspects of the religious beliefs which inform those views of creation. ok that was long. a nice distraction from the work I need to do. I never thought I would get annoyed with painting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 I'm going to worship this thread. It's been resurrected! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 word to 12oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted January 18, 2007 Author Share Posted January 18, 2007 I'm going to worship this thread. It's been resurrected! It's funny, one day A non muslim asked me what it looked like inside a mosque. So I told him that it was very simple with just a rug on the floor, no pews like in church or anything like that. A few bookshelves with books and bare walls so that a person can worship God without distraction. So he said to me " what's religious about that?" Then he said "don't you have any statues of Allah or something like that?" It tripped me out because the very essence of true religion is against Idolatry and worshipping false Gods but to him it wasn't religious unless it contained some sort of Idolatry. it got me thinking that people generally think of religion as some sort of symbolism as opposed to a way of life that guides us to be moral, just and to put everything in it's proper place. Religion should be a guidline to success, but today people view religion and even practice it without soul or meaning as if the only reason they belong to a certain religion is because their family is that same religion. When it is said to them: "Follow what Allâh has sent down." They say: "Nay! We shall follow what we found our fathers following." (Would they do that!) Even though their fathers did not understand anything nor were they guided? (Al-Baqarah 2:170) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1V3R2 Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 well,,,,quantumm physics tells us that the center of an atom isnt even there,,,,its an idea of possibilities and mathematical language,,the only language every one can agree on!!!...islamics,aborigines,christians,etc....u create ur own destiny,,,in front of u,,,,U created it,,,everything is "god"...his nature is ur nature....whatever ur nature is,,,is,,,what god's nature is,,,man,,,ya'll need to watch "what the bleep do we know"...u create ur happiness or ur sadness,,,its ur choice........what ever gods nature is,,,the kingdom of heaven can fit within a mustard seed......quantumm physics is what i believe,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Yeah, well EC's "Weird Science" comics from the 50's tell us that inside every atom is a unique universe, so think about THAT and add a bunch of dot-dot-dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 What does religion have to do with creation? :confused: Why the hell even seriously respond to this? Are you 7 years old? Religions explain creation, it's that fucking simple and obvious. Jesus, man. And not the person Jesus, but like Jesus WTF. It's funny, one day A non muslim asked me what it looked like inside a mosque. So I told him that it was very simple with just a rug on the floor, no pews like in church or anything like that. A few bookshelves with books and bare walls so that a person can worship God without distraction. So he said to me " what's religious about that?" Then he said "don't you have any statues of Allah or something like that?" It tripped me out because the very essence of true religion is against Idolatry and worshipping false Gods but to him it wasn't religious unless it contained some sort of Idolatry. it got me thinking that people generally think of religion as some sort of symbolism as opposed to a way of life that guides us to be moral, just and to put everything in it's proper place. Religion should be a guidline to success, but today people view religion and even practice it without soul or meaning as if the only reason they belong to a certain religion is because their family is that same religion. When it is said to them: "Follow what Allâh has sent down." They say: "Nay! We shall follow what we found our fathers following." (Would they do that!) Even though their fathers did not understand anything nor were they guided? (Al-Baqarah 2:170) You should have just told him to go inside a Mosque and look for himself. If I wanted to know what a Mosque looks like I'd go and check one out, I wouldn't ask someone else about it. You should have said "we've got Jesus on a cross that's stuck in a dinosaur and pictures of Grace Kelly everywhere. Plus Sylvester Stallone makes frequent visits and there's a television that runs episodes of South Park all day." Not to defile the religion or the idea, but to, as the English say, "take the piss". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 ha, ha "take the piss" hey RIVEROCK .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the district Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 DA WOOD MAN,,,,ITS RIVERS HERE!!!,,,,and quantumm physics debunks religion,,,sorry da wood,,,,but religion is made to keep the poor poorer and the rich richer!!!! sorry dude....but...its true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the district Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 if there is any religon that will ring true,,,it would be buddhism,,,the only religion that isnt hell bent on proving that they are the right religion,,,buddihism actually follows right along with quantum physics,,,always has,,,and im sure always will....thread closed....holla atcha boy!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the district Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 scratch that religon's made to keep poor poorer,,,scratch that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3ader Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 It's funny, one day A non muslim asked me what it looked like inside a mosque. So I told him that it was very simple with just a rug on the floor, no pews like in church or anything like that. A few bookshelves with books and bare walls so that a person can worship God without distraction. So he said to me " what's religious about that?" Then he said "don't you have any statues of Allah or something like that?" It tripped me out because the very essence of true religion is against Idolatry and worshipping false Gods but to him it wasn't religious unless it contained some sort of Idolatry. it got me thinking that people generally think of religion as some sort of symbolism as opposed to a way of life that guides us to be moral, just and to put everything in it's proper place. Religion should be a guidline to success, but today people view religion and even practice it without soul or meaning as if the only reason they belong to a certain religion is because their family is that same religion. When it is said to them: "Follow what Allâh has sent down." They say: "Nay! We shall follow what we found our fathers following." (Would they do that!) Even though their fathers did not understand anything nor were they guided? (Al-Baqarah 2:170) I agree, statues/etc are idolatrous, but just because I'm a Jew doesn't mean i think synagogues are superior to churches. It's different strokes for different strokes, bro, I agree, simplicity is fantastic, and can lead you closer to the Creator, but there's a bunch of gold/etc on the tops of mosques, so i wouldn't say Islam is completely disconnected from the material world. Also, remember that the Temple, which is questionably the first physical place meant for worship or 1 G-d, is dictated from G-d to be about the most ornate place there could be: acacia wood coated in gold, etc. Nice things don't make you further from G-d, but surely, nice things don't bring you closer to G-d either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the district Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 fuck chirches that have 10 million dollar churches!!!!,,,,can put all these poor people through college and could feed all the homeless people,,,bastards!!!!! fact----christians OWN 75% of the worlds land,,,,why? buddhist monasteries,,,now look at them,,,,,all natural,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 DA WOOD MAN,,,,ITS RIVERS HERE!!!,,,,and quantumm physics debunks religion,,,sorry da wood,,,,but religion is made to keep the poor poorer and the rich richer!!!! sorry dude....but...its true! explain to me why you think quantam physics debunks religion, this could be the start of something interesting , man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 I agree, statues/etc are idolatrous, but just because I'm a Jew doesn't mean i think synagogues are superior to churches. It's different strokes for different strokes, bro, I agree, simplicity is fantastic, and can lead you closer to the Creator, but there's a bunch of gold/etc on the tops of mosques, so i wouldn't say Islam is completely disconnected from the material world. Also, remember that the Temple, which is questionably the first physical place meant for worship or 1 G-d, is dictated from G-d to be about the most ornate place there could be: acacia wood coated in gold, etc. Nice things don't make you further from G-d, but surely, nice things don't bring you closer to G-d either. The mosques of the early muslims were very simple and un-decorated. and the prophet Muhammad forbid decorating the mosques. It is not confirmed from the Prophet that he honored the Masaajid by lighting them, and placing flowers on them during the 'Eids, and special occasions. This was not known from the Rightly Guided Caliphs or the guided Imaams (radhiyallaahu 'anhum ajma'een) from the first generations that the Messenger of Allaah testified for as being the best of generations. This was the case even with the advancement of the people, and their abundance of wealth and their taking a large amount from the cultures and civilizations and availability of various kinds of beautification and colors in the first three generations. Thus, all good is in following the Prophet's (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), guidance, the guidance of his Rightly Guided Caliphs and those who traversed upon their path from the Imaams of the Religion after them. The decorations and huge architectual displays that you see today in the mosques are a result of the muslim nations moving away from the specific guidance of the prophet Muhammad and trying to compete in worldy things. Simplicity in the places of worship was the way of guidance and it still is even though some people don't follow this example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenHarper Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 The decorations and huge architectual displays that you see today in the mosques are a result of the muslim nations moving away from the specific guidance of the prophet Muhammad and trying to compete in worldy things. I'd have to argue that competing in worldly things is the least of their problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 true, but the problems that exist in the muslim world are not different than what the prophet Muhammad already prophesised. Also, I've been to several muslim countries and contrary to what the western jewish run media and entertainment world would have you think, America has way more societial problems than a place like Egypt. also, the problems that a place like egypt has is largely because they are following the western ways , watching satellite tv and junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3ader Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 true, but the problems that exist in the muslim world are not different than what the prophet Muhammad already prophesised. Also, I've been to several muslim countries and contrary to what the western jewish run media and entertainment world would have you think, America has way more societial problems than a place like Egypt. also, the problems that a place like egypt has is largely because they are following the western ways , watching satellite tv and junk. whoa! the media is run by atheists and christians, bro, just like the rest of the power helms in america. the myth of jewish dominance is just that; would you appreciate me generalizing about your people? and sat. tv in egypt has tons of egyptian, lebanese and other programming that is just as rife in propaganda as ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 Wait, don't tell me Spielberg is Athiest too! So youre saying Jews DON'T own hollywood and CNN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1V3R2 Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 quantum physics proves that u create ur own destiny,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oushla Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 destiny is destiny. if its gonna happen, its gonna happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 the last statement isnt bad. but whomever is running their mouth about quantum theory dispelling religions... retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1V3R2 Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 buddhism is the only religion that rings true with quantum mechanics and then i wrote scratch that it doesnt dispell religions,,,,,but,,,,,,everyone seems to overlook that,,,but,,,,,still,,,,u are the creator of everything,,,,ur happiness or sadness,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1V3R2 Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 thats funny "the crooked" calls me retarded,,,,cause ur prolly wondering why ur in a bad mood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1V3R2 Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 and dawoods,,,,wondering why he's walking around in a desert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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