angelofdeath

by having conservative values i mean anti abortion, pro family, defending christianity, etc etc, social values, not whether our enemy should be treated fairly. whether you agree with why we are in iraq or not, i dont think there should be any stance but to defend for instance the marine who shot the guy on video that was unarmed a few months ago. im pro death penalty. im no pacifist. bush's take on iraq is liberating iraq from tyranny. war is war. it isnt pretty. as for bush's values, i dont blindly stand behind him. i mean you have me sorta looking like a liberal compared to some people i know, like hardcore constitution party guys. on the bigger scale take alex jones. he hates bush to no end. he hates libs to no end. alot of people are attracted to him for bashing bush, then they find out that he is about as anti abortion as you can get, one of the most radical pro 2nd amendment partisans ever, pro death penalty,etc etc. he is self defined as a "true conservative." hates neo cons. his perceptions of defying the conservative agenda are appointing a cabinet member that is pro choice. oddly he stood strong behind Ashcroft when everyone was throwing shit at him because he was a staunch pro gun guy. if you ask me, politics are all about comprimise. otherwise we would be living in a dictatorship. one side criticizes the other for comprimising on an issue. we have extreme pro gun people criticizing bush for even mentioning he might sign the assault weapons ban. but he didnt. it never got there. look at the big picture, life here isnt that bad. some people act like we are all about to die, but shit life is actually pretty good compared to some places. atleast we can sit back and agree to disagree. now can someone show me an actual example of bush abandoning values (besides iraq or whatever, because i dont agree)

browner, i agree on many of your points. i think we are somewhat on the same page, however coming at them from different angles. just for those to get a better picture of what i think about the whole thing, i think personally after world war 2 we should of went into post 1812 era isolationalism. no alliances, no nothing. kept to ourselves. however that is not the case. and most likely couldnt be the case. i dont agree with alot of what the neo cons preach. truthfully i am on the same page as far as the neo cons social values, (abortion, guns, etc etc )but not exactly so on foreign policy. the war is not my main issue with bush. i look at it like this, if there were WMDs, a truly viable al-GADA link, etc etc, people would still be mad at the war reguardless. i cant blame just bush because they werent found, if you are to blame, everyone should be blamed. so its a lose lose situation. unless saddam came to the US, and bombed DC could some people agree with going to war. michael moore even said publically that he denounced the war in Afgjhanistan, then went and said we should be there and not iraq. as far as kerry, i gotta say i dont agree with the liberal agenda of big government (not that the neocons are much better) i especially dont like liberals who pretend they arent. so i guess you could say i come at all this from a sorta libertarian perspective, but slightly defending bush for the sake of i identify with some of his values. its sorta like pat buchanan said, bush is wrong on foreign policy, trade, open borders, etc etc, but right on values and social issues. and an election is like a tribal fued. when the shooting starts you come home to your own. i say let bush figure this shit out.

"i don't know any liberals that are in denial. and i've found that people that bitch about liberals aren't very good at articulating what exactly is so bad about either being a liberal or even what exactly a liberal is." i dunno man, i watch atleast an hour of news at night, (a bunch of different networks too so dont say fox) and all i see is liberal democrats pretending to be moderates. for shits sake about 2 months ago HILLARY was saying she is a really a christian conservative. as to all the john kerry mumbo, it boils down to this guys, if you are anti iraq atleast back someone who wants nothing to do with it or didnt want anything to do with it. most libs in congress supported action in iraq if necessary. everyone says, it was done the wrong way, and bush is a war monger, which very well might be true, but the key here is no one should of gave him authority to go. end of story. everyone approved, then as soon as a war started looking like a war, and EVERYONES intellegence was wrong, everyone threw the finger right on one guy, and it was just another reason why to hate republicans. when in fact it was a majority in our lovely wonderful big huge happy central government that approved.

check out my man..... http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul222.html

nice. im just waiting for someone to talk shit on or say how politically incorrect your signature icon on your flicks is. (i approve however.)

perhaps we need a refresher course. "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998 "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." S - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998 "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 "Hussein has . chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." - Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of St ate, Nov. 10, 1999 "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001 "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002 "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept.. 23, 2002 "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 "We have known for many years that Saddam H ussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002 "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002 "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal o f weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five y ears ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biologica l weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" Rep. - Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002 "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members . It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the pr oduction and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002 "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction .. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real .." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

if your an anarchist then you should be the last one voting for kerry. both bush and kerry want big government.

definitely a good point. Quoted post [/b] you guys are exactly right.

let me first say i move more libertarian/constitutional party everday, but lets get a clue here guys. everyone on here bashing bush, talk about how bad iraq is, why we shouldnt be there, blah blah blah, and yet you all voted for KERRY! he voted to GO TO WAR. So did his lib buddies, clinton preached about saddam being a threat and harbored ideas of war. i dont see a difference. while your right, alot of people hate bush, you cant deny the fucking numbers. he won both popular and electoral votes. by a good amount, the most majority in a damn long time some say ever. then you have some saying, we should can the electoral college. I have to side with Ron Paul on the issue. The DNC is in bad shape. if they want to win, they must either come up with a gimmick or move to the center. liberal candidates dont swing in most of america. face it guys, there is a world outside the liberal bastions of your cities you all live in. look even at clinton atleast he ran as a more conservative democrat, (though he didnt govern the way he ran)and not john kerry, so limp wristed till about 4 months before the election, he tried to be pro gun, neutral on gay marriage, changed his mind like 10 times on iraq, etc etc etc. I see american politics as this: to get elected you cant be extreme or either side. look at how popular moderate republicans are. look at the small popularity with the public of pro life, and/or pro gun democrats. (the few they are) yet the bulk of democrats are liberals through and through, and only use the more conservative dems when they need too, to prove something, and then toss them to the side. One funny thing about all this is, when it comes to ideology. ever notice how when someone calls a liberal a liberal, they take great offense and deny it, and point out how they are central or more conservative? never fails every time. when someone calls them a conservative they take pride. someone once said, the easiest way to convert a liberal was to have them move out of there parents house and get a job and if that doesnt work you might have to talk to them...

best ever pro second amendment statement.... michael badnarik. The Second Amendment is "not negotiable," and Badnarik refuses to get a Texas concealed-weapons permit - because "rights do not require permission." Source: Michael King, The Austin (TX) Chronicle Jun 11, 2004

^^^ your right. or so the rumors go.

lets see what kind of controversy we can get on this... Physicians vs. Gun owners. a. The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000. b. Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000. c. Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171. (Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept. of Health & Human Services) Now think about this. Gun Owners: a. The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000. b. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is 1,500. c. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.000188. Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners. Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do" FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

whats really funny is that most of you guys on here voted for a guy who voted for the war with his liberal friends in congress. clinton even wanted to invade. then as soon as things start looking like a war during a war, everyone changes their stance.

cmon now the amount that us mutherfuckers in md paint this thread should be like 49 pages long.

whos gost, call me fucker.

a national party no more, miller mountain spirits (about moonshine)

steveaustin knows the deal.

bill moyers is a fuck tard.

my boys apes and scar. mesko. when.

Yeah but these fucking a.n.s.w.e.r people don't know what the fuck they are doing, and half of everyone else. Everyone's just going to march right into the cops and then get the shit beaten out of them. I just say that the days where you could hold a sign and have a clever little chant and your government would let you do it...those days are fucking over. Quoted post have fun getting killed dude. I already heard there are gonna mad MP's, and 400,000 protesters to protest the protesters.

to quote ONE LIFE CREW... "fuck osama, fuck saddam, fuck liberals, im a hardcore XAMERICANX"

dude, im dissapointed, i thought this was gonna be about the actual movie. fuck. nice flicks though.

i dont know dude, ive tried to crash my OS and it wont. you can crash safari or photoshop, but i have not been able to crash my whole os. it keeps ticking. the pc i used to have crashed once every 2 days, tally that up compared to Never for my mac, im a believer in mac.

Mr raven knows the deal. had a G4 dual 1.25mhtz with 768mb ram and a 17" flat apple display for about 2 years, and havent had a moments trouble at all. never had an OS crash. best reason of all, no viruses or spam. only thing that sucks is that some people dont know how to code a website and everything doesnt work right on every site. but more power, efficient, and the ultimate in power, you cant go wrong. not to mention apple invented the home computer. price can be a deciding factor, but always remember, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. i work on cars all day long, i dont buy walmart tools, i buy snap on tools. I dont buy junk ass guns, i buy quality, remington, etc etc. after a properly set up pc to equal a mac, is gonna run you about the same amount you would pay for the mac, so just get the mac. and dont be gay and get that fucking hack that makes windows look like OSX.

damn at the sidebar huh? reckon i'll see you there, son. best show i have been to lately... was sick of it all and terror. good energy, people flipping off the top balcony. great times. dont forget deicide and goatwhore soon, and napalm death and goatwhore a few months from now.