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presidents new immigration work policy

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by seeking, Jan 8, 2004.

  1. seeking

    seeking Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 25, 2000 Messages: 32,277 Likes Received: 235
    someone please make some sense of this for me.
    i dont get it.
    it seems to be a fairly humanitarian gesture, which makes me think since it's bush's idea, it must be bad for america, but im not quite sure why. other than the fact that it would allow more immigrants to come here and take jobs from 'americans', but the jobs they take, 'americans' dont want anyway, so who cares? ive never met a single person who was stoked to be able to make beds at holiday inn for a living.

    please, someone explain this for me.
  2. Dick Quickwood

    Dick Quickwood 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Aug 25, 2002 Messages: 14,783 Likes Received: 14
    appealing to mexican voters ?
  3. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 623
    here is an interview with a Latino-rights org president..

    La Raza president: Bush immigration proposal 'falls far short'

    Wednesday, January 7, 2004 Posted: 6:04 PM EST (2304 GMT)

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush's announcement Wednesday of new immigration guidelines, including a new temporary worker program, drew mixed reactions.

    One person who expressed disappointment was Raul Yzaguirre, president of the National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic advocacy group. He spoke to CNN's Heidi Collins shortly after Bush's speech.

    YZAGUIRRE: I thought the president was brilliant and magnificent in terms of defending our tradition of immigration. He was compassionate and compelling.

    Unfortunately, the proposals that he is making to the Congress don't embody that compassion. When you strip it down, what he's saying, it amounts to nothing more than a warmed-over Bracero program, unfortunately.

    COLLINS: Why do you say that?

    YZAGUIRRE: Well, what we're talking about is simply giving temporary work permits to either people who are already here or people who will come in. And that is not very different than what we had in the '40s, '50s and '60s, a program called Bracero program, where we imported temporary workers and abused their rights. And we saw endemic patterns of abuses that we all are ashamed of.

    COLLINS: You say that this also exposes the worker to possible deportation when the green card or the temporary card runs out.

    YZAGUIRRE: Precisely.

    You are asking people who are undocumented to come forward, declare the fact that they're undocumented, and then expose themselves to possible, perhaps even probable, deportation after a period of time. It is no pathway to legalization, to earned legalization, to regularization of their status. And it falls far short of what we had talked about before the September the 11th incident.

    COLLINS: But the plan does provide incentives to go back to their home country, possibly starting their own business and supporting their families in their own country. It offers them retirement benefits and some new tax savings accounts. Isn't that different than what was offered before?

    YZAGUIRRE: No. As a matter of fact, the Bracero program also had a savings provision, which, in fact [was] not lived up to.

    But it still amounts to sugarcoating what is not a particularly generous proposition. It's not one that's likely to attract a lot of people coming forth.

    COLLINS: Mr. Yzaguirre, what were you hoping the president would offer?

    YZAGUIRRE: We were hoping that he would keep his promises to offer comprehensive immigration reform that would include, indeed, perhaps a temporary worker program, but that the heart of it would be earned legalization, a pathway, so that people who are currently paying taxes, subsidizing our Social Security system, improving our standard of living, would have an opportunity to do what millions of other Americans -- other immigrants have done, become American citizens.

    COLLINS: What will happen now, in your eyes?

    YZAGUIRRE: It's hard to tell.

    You know, we don't have a specific proposal. We have a series of concepts and broad strokes. The fact that it comes so late in the legislative calendar makes it very difficult to expect that it will pass Congress this year. So, it may be no more than a political gesture to earn the vote of the Hispanic community.

    summary: (cnn)

    People outside the country will also be able to obtain temporary worker status if they have a job offer from an American employer. Bush said employers would have to prove that they cannot fill the job with an American worker before they would be allowed to hire a non-citizen as a temporary worker. And if the worker quit, the employer would have to notify the government.

    immigrants already in the United States can only apply for the temporary worker program if they already have a job. The special status would last for three years and could be renewed once, for a total stay of six years. If temporary workers failed to stay employed or broke the law, they would be sent home, Bush said.

    Bush said the new legal status would allow illegal immigrants to travel back to their home countries, without the fear they would not be allowed to return to the United States, and he said it would also help keep immigrants from being abused or exploited
  4. SteveAustin

    SteveAustin Veteran Member

    Joined: Mar 12, 2002 Messages: 7,042 Likes Received: 2
    I've actually managed to catch quite a few news programs talking about this. I don't know if I can make sense of it...but I can relay what every one is saying about it.

    conservative republicans are pissed off because they think it rewards and encourages the illegals that have already made it into the country.

    hispanics think its too little of a gesture...seeing as how they can be deported back to mexico after three years.

    those in favor of it think its good because it registers the illegals already here and it also gives them minimum wage.

    I think Bush is trying to appeal to the hispanic voters (who he supposedly needs to win the upcoming election). The general consensus is that they will look favorably on him just for trying...but I'm not sure about that. People are pretty smart nowadays and I think most would be able to see through that smoke screen. I'm also kinda wondering what will happen when the employers have to pay these guys minimum wage for work they were doing for half of that. I'm afraid that the guys that were doing these shit jobs will get passed over for the new illegals that come into the country.
  5. ubejinxed

    ubejinxed Veteran Member

    Joined: Apr 12, 2001 Messages: 7,543 Likes Received: 3
    when i first heard about it i was excited about the plan since i know a fair amount of people who are illegal. but it doesn't actually help anyone to become a permanent resident and it really pigeonholes the immigrants to low wage jobs since that's all that will be available. so that's all fine and well if that's all you're looking for. but i know people who have built their lives here and are capable beyond picking fruit.

    i'm sure a lot will not register themselves either. it's a red flag, hello here i am fine me and deport me when u decide i'm not useful anymore
  6. caL

    caL Senior Member

    Joined: Feb 7, 2003 Messages: 2,056 Likes Received: 0
    its election year.
  7. ubejinxed

    ubejinxed Veteran Member

    Joined: Apr 12, 2001 Messages: 7,543 Likes Received: 3
    i think it would be fine if people are really here just for a little while. i know many people who drive without insurance, or real drivers license because they can't get them since they don't have SSN. if they can at least get a SSN and there isn't some sort of backlash when people decide this program isn't financially beneficial for the US then i'm down with it for the most part.
  8. southrngent

    southrngent Member

    Joined: Feb 18, 2003 Messages: 734 Likes Received: 0
    This administration has made mistake after mistake. It is time to get them out of office. If not they will kill off the youth by war, kill middle america by outsourcing jobs and take all our civil rights away by force. Hopefully the thought of mexicans, haitians etc driving around will scared the rednecks away from voting for this out of control administration!!!!!!!!!!!!!! probably not, we are just fucked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  9. Boring Bastard

    Boring Bastard Elite Member

    Joined: Feb 1, 2001 Messages: 3,784 Likes Received: 1
    That right there is the problem! Everyone thinks that they are too good to actually work! "Oh hell no.......nigga please.........I am NOT making the bed for a buncha dirrrrrrty ass mothafuckas who be having sex up in this herrrrr bed! Renting rooms just to get yo fuck on?? Fuck no.......I am not the one!" Shit ain't fucking free for no reason! It's because tax payers and the ones actually working make it easy for "Suzy Sitsonherass" !!!!! Fuck!

  10. metallix

    metallix Elite Member

    Joined: Oct 7, 2001 Messages: 2,955 Likes Received: 1
    TURN MEXICO IN A COMMUNIST STATE AND GIVE THEM all jobs on communal farms and gulag labor camps. That is the solution! See otherwise these people will come here, apply for wel-fare and never fucking leave! Fuck that! THis is nOt GoinG to BeCome the FuckEng Estados Unidos de Mexico!!!

  11. seeking

    seeking Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 25, 2000 Messages: 32,277 Likes Received: 235
    metallix, someday id like to see you present a 'political platform', stating your views, cause often times you surprise me with what seems like contradictory views.
    not slamming you at all, the fact that i even give a shit should be seen as a compliment (if my opinion means anything to you that is) just wondering.
  12. WebsterUno

    WebsterUno Guest

    Re: Re: presidents new immigration work policy

    then go break your back
    in the strawberry fields compadre!
    Under the hot clifornia sun.


    pass me the limonada!
    Its gettin hot in hurr!

    Fuck BUSH!
  13. Pistol

    Pistol Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jul 12, 2001 Messages: 19,363 Likes Received: 299
    let me see i was shocked when i heard about this.
    sure he might get a few latino votes but he's gonna stand to lose a shitload of conservative republicans (white people that vote).

    some think he might have thrown this out there for future moves/ideas closer to the election depending on how the polls look after this. others think it's a goodwill gesture which will help trade between mexico and us. him and fox have go back a while from when he was gov.

    he's able to withstand the critics by saying he's not giving amnesty to 'illegals' by the way he defines amnesty. he's going to allow them to pay some cash to get work permits, green cards, which can be renewed, then eventually citizenship. but technically hes not giving them immediate amnesty so it doesent sound as harsh to critics.

    then again it was all made up within the bilderberg conference last year anyway.

    *if any of this surprises or shocks you, you should look up "The Bracero Program"

    *quick link http://www.farmworkers.org/bracerop.html
  14. ubejinxed

    ubejinxed Veteran Member

    Joined: Apr 12, 2001 Messages: 7,543 Likes Received: 3

    yah i remember reading he hadn't outlined the actual plan, and 'planned to iron out the details with congress' meaning if it doesn't boost him then he'll toss it out.

    i didn't know the program acutally allowed u to start working for a green card, only that u get benefits. maybe i need more clarification here.

  15. seeking

    seeking Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 25, 2000 Messages: 32,277 Likes Received: 235
    other than for support in the elections, i cant understand why the hell he is doing this now. we're at war, the country is going to hell, the whole world hates us, and all of a sudden he's all concerned with the welfare of illegal immigrants? wtf? a million dollars says that while he was governor of texas, he didnt do a single thing to help illegals.

    another angle is that he knows illegals are coming here to work anyway, he knows they're doing all the shit jobs that we dont want anyhow, and he knows the govt. is getting screwed out of its cut of the money. so basically, this is just a way to make more money for the govt, by taxing a HUGE secetion of the work force, that prior to now, was not being taxed.

    in the end, whoever said that he did this knowing it would never pass, but would look good to hispanic voters, i think hit it....it's the only 'logical' rational. the timing still amazes me though. but why now? why not do it 4 months before the election? and if it was to somehow pass, he would immediately start talking abotu the 'billions and billions' of dollars his plan was now contributing to our government.

    i dont know. bush makes my head hurt.