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Heaven?

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by Harpo Marx, Dec 20, 2001.

  1. Harpo Marx

    Harpo Marx 12oz Senior Member

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    Heaven?

    Discussion started by Harpo Marx - Dec 20, 2001

    Some of you may or may not believe that this is the final place. Last sunday I was sitting and thinking... what if there was a heaven? I got kinda scared.. not because there would be god, but because when people talk about heaven they say 'there is no pain' 'its perfect'... the only way that it would be possible would be for us to not know pain, or grief, or envy... we would be giving up our very humanly characteristics to survive. It would utopia to some i suppose, but where do we draw the line of being happy, and being entiry blind to something? If there wasnt any pain or death... then how would there be happiness to distinguish the two, and why would there be a point to achieve anything? I dunno... any thoughts? and dont make the 'christians suck' comments either, im not asking for shallow opinions on people of a belief.
     
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  2. Pistol

    Pistol Dirty Dozen Crew

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    Pistol - Replied Dec 20, 2001

    I too have thought about "what if". I guess we would all remember our days here on earth. We would have that to compare thus realizing our new found paradise. I think we will still carry on our memories to wherever we go after death. Perhaps one might call that a soul. Perhaps it is something else. Maybe our soul dies too.
    Good thing to contemplate and get gears of the mind thinking on some existence, future, life type stuff
     
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  3. TheStupidToy

    TheStupidToy 12oz Junior Member

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    TheStupidToy - Replied Dec 20, 2001

    Earth=Hell

    Nuff said
     
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  4. Dr. Dazzle

    Dr. Dazzle 12oz Veteran Member

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    Dr. Dazzle - Replied Dec 20, 2001

    I hope there isn't a heaven coz I probably wouldn't get in
     
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  5. Cracked Ass

    Cracked Ass 12oz Veteran Member

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    Cracked Ass - Replied Dec 21, 2001

    I suspend any call as to whether heaven exists. From a religious angle it's a bunch of nonsense. But the stories of near-death experiences, while not wholly credible, suggest to me that it would be a womblike place, where you just feel the warmth and the love and maybe relief that you're...home. Whatever the case, it's not a place or situation you could ever understand before you experience it, so I wouldn't worry about it.
     
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  6. imported_Tesseract - Replied Dec 21, 2001

    I tend to believe that heaven and hell exists on the same life.
    To me there is no after-life.
    Suffering or Being happy for eternity is so full of fear and so anthropocentric that i concider it a sadomazohistic though the less.
    What more could hell be than living your only life in misery and you contributed in the same way in other peoples lifes?
    I'm always very annoyed on the opinion religious people have about animals and death.
    Do animals go to heaven? do they go to hell?
    Why can we respect the circle of good and bad when it comes to animals and not to us?
    Everyone has a role as an element.
    Fuck it we just end.
     
  7. BROWNer

    BROWNer Guest

    BROWNer - Replied Dec 21, 2001

    as for the near death stuff.......there's a canadian neurologist thats replicated
    these experiences, along with alien encounters and a bunch of other 'phenomena'...
    brains. its all brains.
     
  8. T.T Boy

    T.T Boy Dirty Dozen Crew

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    T.T Boy - Replied Dec 21, 2001

    when ive used up my body, it will decay and return to the earth and become something else weather it be rain, dirt, part of something else. it will be back as something else. and my mind/thoughts/soul/spirit will leave the body when its finished with it and go on to somewhere else, where i have no idea. theres just to much energy and thoughts in our minds that it cannnot just stop. we only use 10% of our brains potential power, how can we even begin to guess what ha[ppens, who know maybe were only using .00000001% we think were so smart when really were stupid.
     
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  9. TheStupidToy

    TheStupidToy 12oz Junior Member

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    TheStupidToy - Replied Dec 21, 2001

    Just look at your human hand...... even with all the technology out there today, scientists cannot replicate it. Something has created a whole world.... every little thing is amazing. Like how our bodies function, and recreate more people by liquids and eggs..... its just way to complicated. I mean, look how perfectly the Photosynthesis system works, allowing everything to be on a cycle..... there is no way we just came here from nothing! No way at all!
     
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  10. Devilush

    Devilush 12oz Legend

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    Devilush - Replied Dec 21, 2001

    the only time i ever think about death is when someone that i know dies. that is when i sit there and think about death and how a life and soul can exist in the physical world but all of a sudden make its way up to heaven or if you have been horrible, make its way down to hell. i have never denied death. i have always been accepting it as a part of life and we all have to go through it sometime. what i can't accept is the beliefs behind death, i just don't believe it. maybe i dont want to believe it. growing up as a catholic, the church embeds in your head that death is something that we all go through and you have to be a good person in order to go to heaven. and if you are bad, you go to hell and live in an eternity of torture. but its certain that many of us think that when we go to heaven, pain is eliminated and that we are all happy. but what makes me think is what harpo said. how can you distinguish the line of being happy when it seems as you as a human being has been all erased? how can you feel any happiness when that is all you feel up in heaven? throughout history, heaven has been known for being utopia and even when people try to contact the dead, the "dead tells" them that they are happy and well. honestly, i dont believe in either of the two. but i still tell people to console them that their loved ones are up in heaven all happy. that is the only way to explain it. we will never know until we die. at one point in my life, i actually believed that when we die, we reincarnate into another body and starting the whole life circle again. you know how you sometimes let fate and destiny take its course? well i thought that god (or whoever made the decisions and what not) would be the judge as to what kind of life that you live. just like heaven and hell but in the physical world, you are going to live it instead of spending eternity in it. and the whole cycle keeps going and going.

    good topic though harpo....i knew that u were always the smart one.
     
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  11. dBUSH

    dBUSH 12oz Member

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    dBUSH - Replied Dec 22, 2001

    yeah- I don't believe in a heaven, but I do believe in total contentment in the present moment. I think that if there was a heaven- all the things we could possible ever want at any given moment would be there, either that or we would have no desire for anything we did not already have- both result in utopia, but only one seems possible.
     
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  12. Harpo Marx

    Harpo Marx 12oz Senior Member

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    Harpo Marx - Replied Dec 22, 2001

    haha. thanks
    On the note of hell, how can there be a one? Whos judgement is it that seperates our eternal happiness from our eternal suffering? It would be based on someone's opinion. I can't believe that there is a heaven, or or that there's a hell. No one can decide what I'm going to do, or know myself better than me. I've got one hack at life, I won't depend on a better place where I won't know anything.. I can't.

    I'm making myself think...
    Heaven would be like 'The Giver'. People dont know grief or sorrow. They would be like blinded wind-up dolls. No prejudice, no judgement, no decisions, no colors, no distinction of anything. I talked to a friend about this yesterday, and he made the point of saying that without knowing grief or sorrow, that they can't know happiness, it just seems that they do. They all just follow a routine, and that's all they know.
     
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  13. Harpo Marx

    Harpo Marx 12oz Senior Member

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    Harpo Marx - Replied Dec 22, 2001

    I gotta say it before I forget it...
    I do go to church every sunday, and Im in a very religious family. Im told that god knows everything, and that he loves my parents more than I do. He doesnt. I would be willing to give up my one chance at life to die for them. To hell with heaven... I'll get out the bolt cutters like REVS said in the 12 oz interview... if there is one I'll get them out after Im gone, and I'll get in.

    Im not too sure what I think of death. I think that suicide is stupid, not for anything religious, but because it's unfair to your loved ones who have to cope with your loss every day wishing that they could have done something to stop it.

    1 life, 1 chance. Im going to take full advantage of it, and stand on top of the mountain as I look over the hills of the setting sun aflame in the purple and violet sky and say IM ALIVE DAMMIT!
     
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  14. EatMorGlue

    EatMorGlue 12oz Senior Member

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    EatMorGlue - Replied Dec 22, 2001

    be warned. this is long.

    yeah, most people hear these stories and forget that at the point of time that these near death experiences occur, people tend to be either under heavy medication or have had severe trauma to their head. one way or another, the brain is almost always affected before it happens.

    as for the using 10% of our brain idea.. that's bullshit. i believe the explanation of that phrase that i read was that somebody once said "IMAGINE IF we only used 10% of our brains.." or something like that. besides, we evolved big brains because we needed them, not because we needed just 10% of them.

    as for heaven, i happen to not think there is one. my problem with it is i don't think that non-physical objects exist, and the idea of heaven pretty much hinges on that. that you are made up of two things: your physical body and your non-physical mind/soul/vital essence/etc. and when you die your body remains on earth to decompose while your non-physical whatever goes to a non-physical place for eternity. well, in that case, what does eternity mean in a non-physical realm? does time pass the same in both realms, is time a universal constant (in the most absolute sense of "universal"), or is time strictly a measurement for the physical universe? what does happiness or pain mean in a non-physical realm? does it mean the same thing as it does in the physical universe? if not, is heaven still a good thing? since god lives in the non-physical realm, and we were created in his likeness, how does that conversion from non-physical to physical likeness work out? is it exact, otherwise what is lost in the process? if god does causally interact with the physical universe, how can a causal interaction between physical and non-physical logically work since the two are foundationally different? why can the non-physical interact with the physical, but the reverse isn't true? or is it?

    the difference between the physical and non-physical is so deeply fundamental that i think it's ridiculous to assume anything AT ALL about the non-physical, and to assume that the realms are completely parallel other than the fact that one is physical and the other is not seems to me really ignorant.

    nobody knows whether there is a non-physical realm out there, i certainly don't claim to know for sure whether there is or isn't. and i know there are really strong arguments for that dualistic view. but there are also really strong arguments for a non-dualistic view of the world. both have serious flaws, but i just can't accept something that begs millions of questions and that places so much faith in the non-physical, something we know nothing about. i like it better anyways thinking that death is the end all. tell ya the truth, that comforts me a lot more than the idea of a heaven.

    regarding arguments from design, i have an easier time accepting that everything in nature evolved out of primitive bio-goo, or even that aliens or something else came and designed everything on earth, than accepting that a non-physical entity created everything physical.
     
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  15. graf-freely!

    graf-freely! 12oz Member

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    graf-freely! - Replied Dec 22, 2001

    I WONDER IF HEAVENS GOT A GHETTO?
     
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