By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

  1. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum...
    You are currently logged out and viewing our forum as a guest which only allows limited access to our discussions, photos and other forum features. If you are a 12ozProphet Member please login to get the full experience.

    If you are not a 12ozProphet Member, please take a moment to register to gain full access to our website and all of its features. As a 12ozProphet Member you will be able to post comments, start discussions, communicate privately with other members and access members-only content. Registration is fast, simple and free, so join today and be a part of the largest and longest running Graffiti, Art, Style & Culture forum online.

    Please note, if you are a 12ozProphet Member and are locked out of your account, you can recover your account using the 'lost password' link in the login form. If you no longer have access to the email you registered with, please email us at [email protected] and we'll help you recover your account. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum (and don't forget to follow @12ozprophet in Instagram)!


Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by The Leader, Feb 28, 2005.

  1. The Leader

    The Leader Senior Member

    Joined: Jan 23, 2005 Messages: 1,591 Likes Received: 1
    i posted this in crossfire but exactly 3 people responded. This is worthy of about 100 more posts than that

    Strong evidence for a massive galaxy totally devoid of stars has been found in the Virgo cluster, about 50 million light years away from Earth. If the existence of this "dark galaxy" is confirmed, it will vindicate the favoured theory of how galaxies form - and will present fresh puzzles to solve.

    The new galaxy, which consists of a gigantic cloud of hydrogen gas and exotic dark matter, contains enough material to give birth to tens of millions of stars. Yet something is preventing this from happening. Such dark galaxies have been predicted, and could outnumber normal galaxies by as much as a hundred to one, but this is the first time anyone has confidently claimed to have seen one.

    The discovery should come as a relief to astrophysicists developing theories of how galaxies form. "If there are no dark galaxies in the universe, then we must be missing an important piece of physics," says Michael Merrifield at the University of Nottingham, UK.

    For decades computer simulations have consistently predicted far more small galaxies than have been observed. For example, in our local group of galaxies there should be hundreds of dwarf galaxies, along with the gigantic Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies. Yet only 35 dwarf galaxies have been observed.

    One possibility is that these dwarfs exist as dark galaxies - starless clouds of hydrogen and dark matter. "The search for dark galaxies is crucial because there is a major disagreement between the theory of galaxy formation and observation," says Riccardo Giovanelli at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York, US.
    Cosmic stone's throw

    The theorists took heart in 2005 with the announcement that the dwarf galaxy I Zwicky 18, situated just a cosmic stone's throw from the Milky Way in a region where other galaxies are billions of years older, contained no stars older than 500,000 years (New Scientist print edition, 11 December 2004). Either the galaxy formed recently, or it has been hanging around as a dark galaxy for as long as 13 billion years.

    Apart from such tantalising but inconclusive findings, no evidence has turned up until now. The most recent failure was 2004's HIPASS survey, which used the 64-metre Parkes radio telescope in New South Wales, Australia.

    By definition, dark galaxies cannot be seen by optical telescopes. The only signs are radio waves with wavelengths of about 21 centimetres emitted by the hydrogen atoms that make up most of the gas in galaxies. Giovanelli says that HIPASS failed to find any dark galaxies because it was not sensitive enough.

    In the latest survey, an international team led by Robert Minchin at Cardiff University, UK, used the sensitive 76-metre Lovell radio telescope at the University of Manchester's Jodrell Bank Observatory, UK, to look for dark galaxies in the nearby Virgo cluster. There they found VIRGOHI21, a rotating cloud containing enough hydrogen gas to spawn 100 million stars like the sun and fill a small galaxy.

    All previous possible dark galaxies have turned out to be duds: observations made using high-powered optical telescopes showed they contained stars after all. But when Minchin and his team used the 2.5-metre Isaac Newton optical telescope on the island of La Palma, Spain, they found no stars. "This is the first object we can be confident is a dark galaxy," Minchin says.
    Speed of rotation

    But far from answering all the questions, VIRGOHI21 is throwing up a number of new ones. One concerns its mass. While the newly discovered galaxy is certainly dark, it may not be the dwarf that astrophysicists were hoping for.

    If galaxies were made up only of ordinary matter, their speed of rotation would tear them apart. The extra mass needed to provide the gravitational pull that holds them together is generally thought to come from what is called dark matter.

    When Minchin's team measured the speed of rotation of the hydrogen gas in VIRGOHI21, they found that it would have to contain about one-tenth of the dark matter of the Milky Way. But if that is so, it should also have a hundred times as much hydrogen gas as they actually detected. Far from being a dwarf, VIRGOHI21 seems to be a giant in its own right.

    Merrifield says that the shortfall in the observed amount of hydrogen may mean that what Minchin and his team have seen is not a dark galaxy after all. "Their story doesn't quite hang together, and I would speculate that they have been fooled by two passing hydrogen clouds." The difference in speed as one passes the other would give the illusion of rotation, he says.

    But Minchin is sticking to his guns. "There are so few known hydrogen clouds that to find two together would be extremely unlikely." He thinks they may have underestimated the mass of hydrogen in the dark galaxy. If ultraviolet light from distant quasars were ionising a large proportion of the hydrogen atoms, the gas would be rendered invisible to radio telescopes.

  2. why write?

    why write? Veteran Member

    Joined: Oct 19, 2003 Messages: 5,859 Likes Received: 1
    all science is a lie that will be tried to be proven into a different lie 2 years after....lies into more lies, science will never be a fact
  3. The Leader

    The Leader Senior Member

    Joined: Jan 23, 2005 Messages: 1,591 Likes Received: 1
    ok.. is anything fact then? no. so stfu and read.
  4. haunts

    haunts Member

    Joined: Dec 23, 2004 Messages: 297 Likes Received: 0
    i saw this article last week.
  5. why write?

    why write? Veteran Member

    Joined: Oct 19, 2003 Messages: 5,859 Likes Received: 1
    i read you mother fucking mexican eating hamburger chomping 12oz addict crack whore child hindu looking doofy bitch

  6. amorphic

    amorphic Guest

    This article is tight. And to the guy that doesn't "believe" in Science...haha alright...
  7. why write?

    why write? Veteran Member

    Joined: Oct 19, 2003 Messages: 5,859 Likes Received: 1
    keep hating...i love it
  8. The Leader

    The Leader Senior Member

    Joined: Jan 23, 2005 Messages: 1,591 Likes Received: 1
    Did you just say I eat mexicans? Cool.
  9. fermentor666

    fermentor666 Veteran Member

    Joined: Sep 27, 2003 Messages: 8,152 Likes Received: 15
    There was something the other week about a black hole that formed near two star systems, one was completely sucked in and the other was slingshot'd out of it's galaxy and some unfathomably fast speed. Space is wild, man.
  10. Dr. Dazzle

    Dr. Dazzle Veteran Member

    Joined: Nov 19, 2001 Messages: 8,147 Likes Received: 3
    How the fuck can you not believe in science???


    so ill. i love knowing that every star in the sky could have a solar system around it like ours. i wanna see aliens so bad. wish i was military material so i could be an astronaut
  12. Herbivore

    Herbivore Senior Member

    Joined: Oct 12, 2004 Messages: 1,431 Likes Received: 1
    shit like this blows my mind. the concept of a light year is enough to make me cry.
  13. trackstand

    trackstand Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 21, 2004 Messages: 2,262 Likes Received: 3
    Man, you're gross Dazzle.
  14. Fondles

    Fondles Veteran Member

    Joined: Mar 31, 2001 Messages: 7,866 Likes Received: 28

    i'm speechless. you have got to be joking.

    *edit: and to stay on topic, I read about this couple days ago. Good thread.
  15. imported_dowmagik

    imported_dowmagik Senior Member

    Joined: Apr 19, 2001 Messages: 1,904 Likes Received: 1
    why write, are you a theology major?