Smart Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Originally posted by ASER1NE fuck that it is not flawed , it is fact well, the word 'fact' is NOT synonomous with 'truth' AND, let's analyze your 'facts'... let's give you benefit of the doubt and say that ALL NBA players are 'from the PJs'... How many kids live in the PJs nationwide? How many players are in the NBA? (435, using the base of 15 per team and 29 teams) So, ALL the kids from the PJs are competeing for 1 slot out of 435. Easy! Football is easier STILL with nearly 2000 opportunities to be had... And here I am looking for one of MILLIONS of corporate jobs like a sucker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASER1NE Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 okay master you completely missed the essence of my VERY SIMPLE POINT ...............if you cannot comprehend such a point , then i am not gonna bother wasting my time anymore.............i NEVER said anything about all kids from the pj's trying to make the nba , you assumed that.......along with hlaf your ather 'arguements' but it is fact and truth that its way more complicated to become a ceo , than it is to be an athlete .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASER1NE Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Originally posted by ASER1NE .........good day to you sir...... I SAID GOOD DAY ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Originally posted by ASER1NE but it is fact and truth that its way more complicated to become a ceo , than it is to be an athlete .... All you have to do to be a CEO is start a company... it's merely a title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Originally posted by ASER1NE I SAID GOOD DAY ! how do you like my hat? I do not like your hat! ...sorry, just thinking about P.D. Eastman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jah Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 yea, that pisses me off. u know what really pisses me off tho? the fact that oil companies make trillions and they still feel the need to exploit virtually everything on the planet to make more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~i~hear~voices~ Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Originally posted by ASER1NE I SAID GOOD DAY ! someone watches that 70's show..heheheh:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASER1NE Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 indeed , somenody does...............:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HAL Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 Originally posted by cmeup CAPITALISM- its survival of the fittest... kiddies... live and learn, dont complain about the next guy getting payed more than you, become him. tease word is bond. And people wonder why the middle east is a warzone that hates america. :rolleyes: One problem I have with your solution is that it's selfish and greedy. It's capitalism personified. If you're the only person you care about, then rock out with your bad self and step on whoever it takes to get to that house in the burbs and a new german car. Americans are very selfish and very greedy. As an immigrant, this isn't just a stereotype, but a product of living in a country that celebrates energy consumption and wealth. Maybe when you're older and wiser, you'll realize that all the money in the world isn't going to buy you happiness and love. This isn't just directed at Tease, but at the american mindset in general. I think it's so absurd how your bank statement is a testament to your success in this country. Not at a professional level, because that exists everywhere, but on a social level. Money buys privelege here. It's the essence of capitalism. Keep in mind that capitalism isn't neccessarily the right or humanistic way. I was born in a communist country, and while america is, in general, much better, everything revolves around money. Money buys you healthcare, shelter, safety, and other things that the government provides for people in other countries. I think perhaps the events of Sept 11 brought to light the fact that the american way isn't the greatest way, and our gain is the rest of the world's loss. The further away we get from that day, the more people are reverting to their old way of life. People cared about each other, and now people are starting to care about their car and having a home that says "I'm wealthy". Maybe the fact that an athelete can make millions of dollars, and it's not appalling to the majority of the populace speaks of how twisted the mindset is. European footballers make far, far less money than their american counterparts, and they have the same career life expectancy and risk as your united states baseball player. The same can also be said for any international sports, and especially sports that are not played on a professional level. Professional atheletes are not allowed to play in the olympics. The american basketball dream team is a joke. How can another country compete with the enormous pool of atheletes from around the world that play professionally in the US? Inflated earnings in sports are strictly an american phenomenon, and we all know that footballing, or soccer, is a huge international sport generating enormous amounts of revenue. The only difference is that people don't pay $100 to go see a game and the atheletes aren't paid in the 7 digit range. Maybe atheletes here should stop trying to make a lifetime's worth of money in 7 years or so and the entertainment industry should stop supporting the kind of behavior we see from our professional atheletes. *For the haters.....I love the US, and it's a great country to live in. No one can deny that money offers you special priveleges, but many opportunities are available to you in this country. The problem I have is that something in american society supports the kind of behavior we're discussing. There's also an isolationist mindset in the US, where the citizens seem to think we're on some other planet and don't have to interact with the rest of the world. It bothers me that the US is by far the richest, most priveleged people in the world and as a country we refuse to acknowledge any wrongdoing on our part. It really bothered me after the Sept 11 attacks when the media was seemingly shocked and confused about why extremist groups in the middle east would hate us and attack us in such a manner. This brings up an entirely different topic that I don't want to get into, but it's that same kind of ignorant mentality that makes the US very unpopular around the world. The US and it's industries milk the rest of the world for their resources and labor and give back glass beads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HAL Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 Basically, to not go off on other topics, I think that measuring a person's success by their monetary wirth is insane. Some of the greatest literary and artistic genius the world has ever known died poor and alone. I think the problem I have is not that someone makes millions of dollars off their talents, but that other people with an equal amount of talent, albeit non physical, make a fraction of their wages. It says something about america in general and how we need, as a country, to wake up and get with the program. For example, Joker is one of the most gifted writers and an incredible artist, but he makes nothing. He works a regular job, because america doesn't need any more artists. People don't identify with artwork like they identify with Michael Jordan or Arnold Scwarzenegger. It bothers me that america will support certain talents and others will make absolutely no money from their amazing talent and die poor and unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracked Ass Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 If you're saying money buys privilege but not happiness, then you shouldn't have a problem with financially unsuccessful artists. Maybe they have the edge, putting creative achievement ahead of cash. "Well, it would be nice if they could get more cash for doing what they're talented at." Maybe not though. Seems like the best art, music, etc. is motivated by poverty, struggle, suffering, conflict - things not being ideal. In fact, accusations of a decline in the quality of an artist's work usually coincide with him "selling out". I'm not contradicting your arguments - I agree with most of them, especially the stupid agenda of most Americans, which of course was sold to them by corporations. "Keeping up with the Joneses" is an expensive proposition these days, so naturally money is the ultimate status symbol in this mindless culture of consumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beardo Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 we watched mtv cribs today with little wayne and some other metal mouth assface. i wanted to vomit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracked Ass Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 Originally posted by beardo we watched mtv cribs today with little wayne and some other metal mouth assface. i wanted to vomit. What the hell are you doing here? I started your saturday night post thinking you weren't coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HAL Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 Originally posted by cmeup HAL- your dead wrong. hahaha no i dont know. i dont know about capitalism enough to preach to you, but from what i know, its about opporunity, and getting somewhere in the world. you cant sit back and want things handed to you... you got to earn it. its not that your worth what you make, or money makes them man... its that people who work hard are rewarded and thats how it should be. you mentioned people who die alone and are geniuses... thats cool to... but in capitalism they wont get far.. doesnt mean they are any less of a person. and my statement earlier was directed to the kids who keep bitching about how others are paid so good... when they themselves could do that if they worked for it. tease I hear you man, but don't confuse opportunity and privilege (that word doesn't look right). Having the skills and will to do something and being able to do it are two different things. People born into money have a much easier time to get into Harvard or Dartmouth, or any other Ivy League school, than a regular middle/working class kid. Ultimately, these colleges want their tuition money, and a kid with good grades and a trust fund is going to look a lot better on paper than a kid with good grades that needs finiancial assistance. (Programs like Affirmative Action attempt to equalize this, but need a lot of retooling.) The same thing with any other real world experience, like purchasing an automobile or a home. You flash the bills, you get what you want. Your personal views, personality, talent, and desire take a backseat. It doesn't matter if you're a bad person and want to move into a nice neighborhood where ou don't have to worry about your kids being robbed at the bus stop. Money is what's going to get you a home. I think that's the problem with capitalism. The solution is to offer programs like affirmative action and fiancial aid, but affirmative action is geared towards minorities, and financial aid hardly covers the expense of going to college, unless you're dirt poor. That leaves the middle class, which comprises the bulk of the US population, unable to attain the same schooling and opportunities as the rich or even very poor. I'm not saying the programs for minorities and poor are bad. It's a great step towards equality in a capitalist country. Unfortunately, the nature of capitalism favors the small margin of very wealthy over the meaty part of the bell curve that is the middle/working class. The thing that works well in Marxist Communism is that everyone has an equal amount of healthcare, food, and shelter. In real life it's impossible, Humans are greedy. It's no one's fault. Just genetics and survival of the fittest. Capitalism supports that primal behavior. I think a culture that can truly consider themselves civilized would try to rise above and become what no other culture can claim, which is equal. The way that america behaves is a regression from that goal. I'm not a communist, but it would be nice if everyone could recieve the same level of education and hope to be successful in their life no matter what kind of family or community they were born into. Basically what I'm saying is that it's in everyone's best interest to not become americanized and take everything for granted. There's a fleshy white underbelly of america that television doesn't want you to see. This Enron scandal is a very high profile tip of the iceberg. How many people lost everything in the name of capitalism there? It's a perfect example of how corrupt a system we have here in the US. What is going to happen to the city of Houston and it's surrounding suburbs without Enron? Are we looking at another Flint, Michigan? Both are a product of consumerism and disproportion of wealth. I ca't see how this is acceptble "civilized" behavior. I don't think this is what they have in mind when you hear about the american way. I don't think it's neccessarily important to make a lot of money. In terms of artists and selling out, hardship does play a large part of your success as an artist. You can't bring much of a message to your work if it has nothing behind it. I think it can be better applied to factory workers or skilled laborers. You can make a decent amount of bank being an electrician, but you don't make nearly as much as a professional baseball player. You need to work hard to be a great electrician. I imagine a certain level of talent is required. The thing is that electricians aren't sports heroes and have a hard time endorsing products. They don't generate revenue for companies. The entertainment and advertising industry is grossly blown out of proportion. I don't even really want to get into that, because there's honestly no logical explanation for why actors and sports figures make so much money besides vanity. People think that wearing Michael Jordans underwear will make them more popular or play sports better? I don't think anyone really believes that. It's personal vanity. The more you can be like your celebrity of choice, the better of a person you are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Luv Roo Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 The athletes want more money because they know the entire organization is making much more than they are seeing - and the owners and managers are seeing most of that profit, and they are saying 'share the wealth - we deserve it too'. Which is totally fair. And it's not just ticket sales that make the money in sports - geez how naive are all of you that think so....if anything ticket sales merely cover the cost of running one night. What makes the profits are the corporate sponsors, duh.... You know how much these companies rely on advertising? The sad thing about it all is that the teams with the most money get the best players - so a town gets attached to a good player, and next season it's see ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 and let's not forget merchandising, there's where the real money is, all those shirts and hats, and here's another kicker, usually, the leauge takes a big chunk of any one teams merch profits, then next comes the owners, I doubt if any 'real' amount of the merch profits go into the player's hands... Also, let's not forget that many stadiums are, in large part, funded with tax payer dollars and then some company like Enron leases the right to put their name on the front, so you no longer have 'Mile High Stadium' you get Pac/Bell or whatever... let's hope that shit never happens to Lambeau... Also, Hal, I think you're on to something but maybe your aim is just askew... I don't think what you're discussing is an economic issue at all, I believe it's an ethical issue. I mean, hundreds of rich folks, all over the world, have died and tried to 'take it with them' or just kept it in the family, but there have been some great philanthropists as well, Getty comes to mind... In the modern age we have Bill Gates, who for all his portrayal as an evil genius has been giving away HUGE sums of money for years. His partner Paul Allen recently built the Rock 'n Roll museum in Seattle, from what I hear it's a place where you can spend days. Even crazy old Ted Turner has been personally paying our countries back-dues and debt to the U.N. so it's not all bad (or american)... but, I also think you are right, more of America's wealthy should learn the meaning of "Noblesse Oblige" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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