Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
MAR

Three, two term presidents in a row

Recommended Posts

All political beliefs aside, it greatly worries me that we've had three, two term presidents in a row. I'm not sure what it means exactly, but patterns such as these indicate something. I'd be interested to hear what the 12oz politiratti has to say on it.

 

Discuss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely there's a number of precedents for this, though?

 

Surely "number of precedents" in this context is oxy-moronic as well.

 

 

I think you're going to see some major moves in the foreign realm. There'll be a shift on Iran/Syria and you're going to see Russia ramp up in the Mid East and Afghanistan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its reflective of the homogenization of the parties, combined with a sort of apathy and complacency of the masses.

 

The last few years have brought us the Tea Party and OWS, among others, calling for more candidates and choice, but the media portrays any upset group with a villainous or laughable lens. People asking for more choice are painted as loonies or written off as "the youth vote."

 

I had a thought but it went away. Giant Douche/Turd sandwich. Short of some serious upheaval and a revolution we're in for this for the rest of our lives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

History shows that the pres. usually changes in times of econ. Obi won Obama is the first bloke to be voted in with such high unemployment since Roosevelt.

 

I wonder how much charisma played in to this. I mean Romblo runs that shit at a deficit.

 

 

Also, Fist, in terms of the Tea Party, they were pretty far from the center and some of them had some pretty extreme views. Seeing the national debt as a moral issue rather than financial, implying that repaying debt is a viable option? We're talking pretty apocalyptic scenario for the whole world there, economic views don't come much more extreme than that.

 

An alternative to the two party system is what we have here and that can cause serious probs as well. We have a hung parliament, that means neither of the two parties have a majority in the parliament to form govt. So they have to win support of the independents. That sounds good at first, it's more than a 2 party system. But in a hung parliament like this you end up having a small party that only a few people voted for (in this example it has been the Greens, a party that has some pretty hard views on things - and a couple of independents who bring their pet moral issues to the table such as gambling or immigration) being pivotal in major decisions. It kind of makes the govt somewhat unrepresentative on many issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, and though I disagree with the Tea Party pretty much completely, I do believe they have a right to have a voice and representation in some element. I'm not saying they're not loonies

.

 

Representative Democracy: The worst form of government, except for all the others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i agree representative democracy is a problem since in reality the pitch to the people i really for the benefit of the corporations that are making big bucks.

not to say the democrats are my knight in shining armor

i just can't understand the poor people in the red states blindly supporting republicans as if its

some lottery ticket to the millionaire's club. if you make under $250k a year as the vast majority of us do

why support a party that is only interested in making money for themselves? pay your fair share like the

rest of us chumps. while we fight each other trying to block every idea that comes to the table countries

like china that dont have debate, invest in the future. things that we should be doing. instead of hedging

bets on things to improve the country we let corporations make money on the present.

with little to regard to the effect of our future country, generation or environment.

i'm not some sort of dooms day nut but i can see us losing first place working the factories, making shit for the chinese.

revolution. i'm all down for that but as americans we're stupid fat lazy. it would be a fart of a revolution. nothing more.

with no other better ideas on the table we're stuck with what we have.

slaves to the system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure that comparing the US to China is a great idea. The US with less than 25% of the Chinese population and fraction of the history has an economy twice the size of China's, a military that walks rings around China and cultural influence that literally guides the world (education, entertainment, technology, sport, etc.).

 

The US is far from perfect, as we all are. But the US has achieved amazing things and has also done a lot for the world amongst all its faults. Always be sure to keep your cynicism balanced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

while we were wasting money and people's lives in afghanistan china was investing in mining rare minerals out of it.

all of which power the electronic gadgets we mess with daily. They currently have a monopoly on the market and

can decide how much product they want to release and at what price.

 

while dem and rep fight about obama spending too much money and using the failure of one green business building

solar panels to rub in his face they miss the point that we arent investing enough in the market to remain competitive.

china spent some ridiculous # of money on investing in alternative energy as soon as obama announced his initiative.

who wants/can buy a solar panel at say 100k for your whole house when you could buy chinese for 10k.

 

and i dont see why we cant compare china vs the us since we are in a heated race for #1.

sure china has alot of weaknesses that we may not need to worry. about them now.

we are dependent on each other for success. but down the line china will eventually want revenge on Japan and

I dont see that desire ever going away. with them owning almost something like 40% of our bonds we are

pretty much screwed if they can become independent of our markets

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All political beliefs aside, it greatly worries me that we've had three, two term presidents in a row. I'm not sure what it means exactly, but patterns such as these indicate something. I'd be interested to hear what the 12oz politiratti has to say on it.

 

Discuss.

 

I always think back to why my roommate voted for George W. Bush the second time. he said you don't pull your starting quarterback at half time just because he threw a few interceptions.

 

we were really into Madden at the time. it resonated with me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
while we were wasting money and people's lives in afghanistan china was investing in mining rare minerals out of it.

all of which power the electronic gadgets we mess with daily. They currently have a monopoly on the market and

can decide how much product they want to release and at what price.

China poured massive amounts of public capital in to the REE mines and ran them at a loss for decades. This effectively priced all other players out of the market - given the high expense in terms of finance and the environment REE mining incurs - and cornered the industry. Recently China started putting export caps on REEs sending the prices up and they also used them as a political tool against Japan when there were political tensions between both countries.

 

The wash up of this is that counties all around the world, such as Australia, the US, Canada, KAzakhstan, etc. have all restarted REE mining and China has reinforced the belief that its state owned industries are used as a strategic political tool (that means people are more reluctant to business with them and to allow them to invest in their own countries). I'm no economist but I'm not sure China will ever see a net return on the capital (financial, environmental and political) that it invested in its REE program.

 

while dem and rep fight about obama spending too much money and using the failure of one green business building

solar panels to rub in his face they miss the point that we arent investing enough in the market to remain competitive.

china spent some ridiculous # of money on investing in alternative energy as soon as obama announced his initiative.

who wants/can buy a solar panel at say 100k for your whole house when you could buy chinese for 10k.

I Think you're placing too much importance on the idea of strategic investment here. Yes, China is pushing pretty hard on alternate energy prod (waaaay before Obama was even running for Pres.) However that investment is also in part to simply keep people in jobs so they don't over throw the govt. Secondly, China's source of cheap labor is another huuuge factor in being able to produce low price items. The US still has a pretty huge lead in technology and China is doing all it can to get its hands on it. China is also still very far behind in quality and reliability of its product.

 

I can't speak to US domestic politics though (I'm not American).

 

and i dont see why we cant compare china vs the us since we are in a heated race for #1.

sure china has alot of weaknesses that we may not need to worry. about them now.

we are dependent on each other for success. but down the line china will eventually want revenge on Japan and

I dont see that desire ever going away.

I'm pretty confident that revenge is not a strong motive for countries when making strategic policy. Look at every time a Jap leader has visited Yasakuni, bilateral trade has continued climbing. They have a $350bn trade relationship right now, that will only grow as China's economy expands. You think people will be happy to sacrifice lucrative business for revenge? I very much doubt it. In saying that though, China and Japan will be strategic competitors well past the time you and I turn in to dirt.

 

 

with them owning almost something like 40% of our bonds we are

pretty much screwed if they can become independent of our markets

Chinese investment in US debt is a recent development, the US was still able to climb to #1 in the world without it. The US does have a problem with debt, not doubt but the depth of the US economy, potential (look at arable land per person in the US compared to China, just for starters), military, technology, space, etc. etc. It's going to take decades upon decades for China to pull away from being reliant on the US market as a consumer base and also as a stable economy for investment. The US survived very well before Chinese investment came along and it has MASSIVE depth in national power to adjust as China vvvvvvery gradually expands its own domestic markets.

 

China is also still a very, very fragile nation. The discontent is massive and growing (research 'mass incidents and look at their expansion over the last 10 years), the environmental damage caused by rapid growth, no rule of law, low education and massive population is monumental. China is boxed in by the first island chain, they can be easily cut off from being able to enter the oceans of the world, the energy supplies and export markets China relies on for growth/stability (that's largely what the South China Sea, Senkaku and Taiwan issues are about as well as the pipelines/transit routes from Gwadar and Kyuakpyu and the connections to FSU are about). China knows this and that's why it's pushing so hard against Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, Philippines and India. The result of China's assertive behaviour is that it's scaring all of its neighbours who are now actively balancing against China's expansion. The amount of submarines, anti-ship missiles, surface craft, etc. that are being purchased by the nations in the region is pretty astounding (and worrisome for those who live there).

 

China has got some exceedingly serious mountains to climb before it can even think of competing with the US for #1 status. What you are looking at now is not a race, it's containment (yes, I know, that's a complex term, etc.). The US is shaping China's opportunities for the future, not the other way around. That's not to say that the US has it in the bag, not in the slightest. It's just to say that I think your description of China is far too optimistic and without trying to be rude, a but superficial as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All political beliefs aside, it greatly worries me that we've had three, two term presidents in a row. I'm not sure what it means exactly, but patterns such as these indicate something. I'd be interested to hear what the 12oz politiratti has to say on it.

 

Discuss.

 

Politiratti. Don't know if i am one, but I am personally intrigued. I think the country is growing. I know that there can sometimes be a delicate balance that I feel like can somehow be shifted. There are other things going on that kind of interest me. I think there are new congress people that were put in too. like they replaced incumbents. I try to not look to deep into it and just think of where I am going and how to make it work. I think he isn't so bad. Not the worst and not perfect. I think he is a little fucking weaker than I thought. Fuck it man it is your last term, go balls to the wall. allow same sex couples to petition their significant others to become citizens. end nuclear proliferation. allow investigations from coroner reports of people killed by police officers. and meaningful changes made. smoke a joint. fuck it do something cool and good for the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all the crap you wrote boils down to that I'm too optimistic about china's chances of taking over the #1 spot. you really didnt need to write all that.

 

i hope that they don't. I just see a spark in them that has been lost in the younger generations of japanese and i think america is a country of fat retards with the minority of intelligent people trying to hold it together.

 

who would vote for anyone that wears "magic underwear" ? almost half of the voting population while making minimum wage. hoping its the next lottery ticket for them and their family into a life of wealth. the only spark in our ass is when the SUV's run out of gas we can no longer live a life of privilege.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah well, these matters are complex and can't really be seen in simple terms, just doesn't work like that, unfortunately. Plus, I obviously have a pretty strong interest in issues regarding East Asia and geopolitics so I enjoy the discussion. Sometimes it forces me to remember things or go read about stuff I don't understand and discussion can open my eyes to things I hadn't previously considered.

 

Whilst I think you are too optimistic regarding China I also think you are way too pessimistic about the US. If you look back in history a lot of your complaints are cyclical with peaks in the 30s, 60/70s and 2000s. Yet, the US is still out in front by a country mile. Nothing wrong with wanting to improve things, but don't go throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

I don't care which country is the strongest, just as long as they support the current system/spirit of liberal trade, expanding democracy, rule of law, freedom of innocent passage, global norms, etc. Unfortunately I do not see China working in those directions at this point in time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Register for a 12ozProphet forum account or sign in to comment

You need to be a forum member in order to comment. Forum accounts are separate from shop accounts.

Create an account

Register to become a 12ozProphet forum member.

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×