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taper

fashion rap

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it seems all theese "rappers" today talk about 20's on their cars, all thrir bitces and jewelery and nonoe of the words ryme anyway. then they come out with a sorry clothing line (sean john) (rocca wear) and exploit little young kids into waering and listening to this mindless rambling and utter garbage they call rap. where did this come from? i think mr puff daddy now knowan as his even more gay name p diddy. this reallly pisses me off. none of theese kids have ever listened to cannibal ox, big l, company flow, the beat junkies, del, gang starr, noone. they think if they dont talk about bling and dress like a fucking blob of "ice" and baggy pants with all theese designer names they arent cool. they have no preception of what rap actually hip hop is or where it came from. thank p diddy for all theese no sense making crap rappers making a quick buk then dissappearing as fast as they came. nelly ludacris p diddy all wil be gone with a faded clothing lne and they will move on too the next trend. but real hip hop will never die. and one more thing im sick of them calling it hip hop its shit hop at best i dont even consider it music let alone a culture.

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Originally posted by taper

(1)where did this come from?... this reallly pisses me off....

 

(2)none of theese kids have ever listened to cannibal ox, big l, company flow, the beat junkies, del, gang starr, noone....

 

(3)they have no preception of what rap actually hip hop is or where it came from....

 

(4)nelly ludacris p diddy all wil be gone with a faded clothing lne and they will move on too the next trend. but real hip hop will never die....

 

 

(5)and one more thing im sick of them calling it hip hop its shit hop at best i dont even consider it music let alone a culture.

 

ok, schools in session.

 

1. it came from the very first days of hip hop, before records, before contracts, when people rapped at block parties and tried to out do eachother for local respect.

 

2. who gives a shit if they've listend to cannibal ox? since when are you in the position to decide definitivly what is and is not 'hip hop'? how long have you been listening to 'underground' hip hop? a year? 2 years? thats what i thought.

 

3. hip hop came from the same streets, blocks, ghettos and neighborhoods that these kids you speak of live in. if anything, they should be pissed off that you dragged hip hop off to the suburbs to scrub her with bleach and then canonize her new form while condemning her old one. and i would go so far as to say you clearly have absolutely no idea what it is or where it came from.

 

4. the next faded trend? like metal, glam, grunge, rap/rock and whatever else bullshit term the media wants to throw on popular rock and roll? or are they not 'trends' because they are accepted, embraced and made universal by the media at large. hate to inform you of this, but i was in the MOMA (metropolitan museum of art) the other day and saw a 50 year old white guy wearing an outkast sweater. soon the whole world will be sporting esco and rockawear.

 

5. of course you dont consider it a culture, because its completely foreign to you. it doesnt reflect the life you grew up in. HOWEVER, it does reflect the lifestyles of the tens of millions of people that it was created for. and im not saying that all black folks in the ghetto talk about wanting 20 inch rims on their cars, to understand what im saying you would have to understand the mindset of a world that isnt yours. a group of people that dont rely on self indulgent, whiney diatribes about how their girlfriend left them, how much you love hip hop and how your mad cause your parents want you to go to their college, but you want to go to a different one out of state. you dont understand it because it was'nt meant for you, just as your vision of 'hip hop' wasnt meant for them. that doesnt make either one any more universaly valid and acceptible. im sure plenty of folks that like ludacris think your 'underground' shit is souless, thesaurus, big word nonsense. it all hinges of relativity and since your world is not at the axis of the universe, your in no position to be making judgement calls for the rest of us.

 

 

i would love to hear an intelligent rebuttle, however the ignorance of your initial statement and my complete destruction of every misguided, ill informed, bullshit point you tried to make leads to believe that really, theres absolutely nothing you can say in your defense.

 

seeking/anticon.

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are you saying thast i have no idea of where hip hop came from? obvisouly you missed the point all together. im saying theese rappers now rap about cars and bling bling not the streets or how rough they got it. they talk about irrevelant shit just about how rich they are. it never was like that before. now all of a sudden this is the new thing. its gay. norega once said the pigeon is hip hop because it is the dirties gritty bird out there. i was just saying kids think masta p and shit is hip hop. its not its selling out. they have a warped preception of it. im just saying kids think they know they know not. and i have alway listend to underground hip hop not for 1 or 2 years all my life. so dont fucking try to talk about shit you dont know. you didnt even understand the thread. so shut up.

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Guest BROWNer

i saw some new nelly vid yesterday.

dood was sporting bandaids-as-fashion.

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seeking i do agree with you thats what i was getting at so whay in the world are you saying that i have no clue? i dont like to type so all of my thoughts arent really complete because im lazy. you have no clue what my actual intellectual stature is so for you to say the things that you said was pure ignorance on your part.

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hahahaha

 

god damn seek. u fuckin crack me up. ur right. whos to say whats hiphop and whats not? but i see where chozer is comin from for sure. there are different styles of hiphop either way. and no one can argue with that. and i do agree with chozer that a lot of the mainstream heads do rap about pointless shit a lot of the time. and since they rap about teh same shit over and over and over again. the amount of meaning and skill in the "rhymes" has depleated immensly. its more in the producers talent. cuz i know for a fact, that me and a third of the kids out there that listen to hiphop (and some that dont) could come up with rhymes like those. i think the reason people are drawn to the mainstream rap these days more is cuz its more stimulating to peoples minds who do give a fuck about inteligents and whatnot in their music. also, the bling bling and bitches and shit are so important cuz its shit that most people dont have in the ghetto and most people want regardless of where theyre from. and all the sensless anger and shit isnt cuz rappers just wanna be violent. its cuz thats their environment and theyre fuckin pissed that theyre stuck in slums and projects. and they should be. i dont know the history of hiphop very well either but i definately see a lot of mainstream rap as shit and lacking much talent. not all of it but a lof of it. and as far as everyone wearin rocca wear and wu wear and all that shit, its just hype like any other style. everyone wants to fit in. some of the stuff may actually appeal to people too of course but a lot of its just hype. but all those underground heads that u mentioned are still wreckin shit but their beats dont have all the sounds and extra bells and chimes and all those played out gimicks that the mainstream shit has so its harder for someone to get into that is totally secluded from the lifestyle. it all goes back to oppinion. but i definately think its more of the producers that make rap today. it also takes skill to be able to flip the rhymes tho. these rappers still come off with their own styles a lot of the time even if theres not much substance in teh rhymes.

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run dmc was rapping about owning a fleet of cadillacs before they even had a license. ll cool j rapped about how much gold he had. to say that hip hop was not about bragging and even falsly claiming you had things you didnt is just from a lack of knowledge. sure the tales have gotten taller, but so have the paychecks and the level of success it takes to be above the rest.

 

to say that nelly and ludacris have no talent is ridiculous. if it was truly that easy, why isnt everyone a rapper? why isnt everyone making millions? i could just as easily say it takes no talent to rap like vast. that dude is terrible. big jus is garbage. and if we're going to talk about emcees that say absolutely nothing, guru is the godfather of bullshit rhymes. if not for primo's beats, dude would have never gotten out of the dollar bin.

 

taper, youve always listend to 'underground' hip hop huh? hope push doesnt come to shove, and i dont ask you to back up that claim. and until you say soemthin that isnt completely ignorant, i'll continue working with the assumption that you are a complete moron. as if your anti gay comments from the past didnt prove that enough.

 

finally jah, i agree that there are different styles of hip hop. that was my whole argument. no one can say they're particular style is better than another. mainstream rappers may talk about the same stuff, but so do underground emcees. mainstream beats may all sound the same, but so do underground beats. its tit for tat all the way to the finish line, and trying to stand on one side is just going to get you lapped...

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well, just to play the 'its ok, im down' game, i think the fact that several of my closest friends and 4 of my ex mate were all gay men, i think that sort of proves my lack of homophobia...

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j, i now, its ok. to get that joke, you would have to have read the thread on 'aggressive skating' where in i proclaimed that all terms previously used to describe homosexuality were now universaly in reference to rollerbladers, and homosexuality from that point forward would no longer be looked down upon. everything's sort of one big revolving inside joke.

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Guest HESHIANDET
why isnt everyone a rapper?
everyone in philly seems to think they are, youve been to city blue.....

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i listen to hip hop, and i think these debates are stupid and pointless. who gives a fuck. it's not a competiton about how many underground groups you can name, or how big your backpack is. the only people who include themselves are the suburban fools trying their hardest to be down. just pop the tape in your deck, and listen. that's all. it's music for christ's sake

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Guest BROWNer

pointless?

that depends.

maybe you like culture that constantly consumes, then

dishes out empty gestures..and since we're

talking about a form of art(music), it deserves critical

thought just like any other art. or maybe not....

i concur...

who fuckin' cares.

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Originally posted by BROWNer

pointless?

that depends.

maybe you like culture that constantly consumes, then

dishes out empty gestures..and since we're

talking about a form of art(music), it deserves critical

thought just like any other art. or maybe not....

i concur...

who fuckin' cares.

 

i sat here thinking of a response, but then realised i would be taking part in the debate. shame on me.

 

 

bling bling, h to the izzo, i'm a cash money millionaire, baby

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Guest kasmoney

WHATS WRONG WIT ROCKIN TIMS,GUESSE JEANS,WHITE T-SHIRTS,FITTED HATS?...YALL JUST MAD CUS YOU GET ROBBED BY THE BLACK GUYS IN YOUR AREA!...BATTLE KATS NEVER GIVE A FUCK..215 YAA KNOE THE SQUILLY DEALLY!

 

SPEAKIN FROM THE ROCK BOTTOM!

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i just wanna clarify that i dont think all mainstream hiphop is wack. theres definately more that lacks talent in my oppinion, but theres plenty of wack underground heads too. im more down with underground but even if nelly´s videos drive me fuckin nuts, i still like a couple of his songs and gotta give him props for comin off with a new style. and theres plenty of others too but i dont feel the need to mention em all. i do feel where tapers comin from for sure tho.

 

peace.

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Originally posted by kasmoney

WHATS WRONG WIT ROCKIN TIMS,GUESSE JEANS,WHITE T-SHIRTS,FITTED HATS?...YALL JUST MAD CUS YOU GET ROBBED BY THE BLACK GUYS IN YOUR AREA!...BATTLE KATS NEVER GIVE A FUCK..215 YAA KNOE THE SQUILLY DEALLY!

 

SPEAKIN FROM THE ROCK BOTTOM!

 

 

also, i dont think theres anything wrong with the gear either. but i do think a lot of kids wear it cuz of hype and not cuz they like it all. i rock timbs and fitted hats and shit. i dont go over board with it tho cuz bein thugged out aint me. im not sayin theres anything wrong with cats who wanna be thugged out either kasmoney, im just not.

 

 

 

peace

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dont get mad kid...just because your favorite emcees aint makin dough dont mean that the ones who are arent 'real' hip hop. jesus. get your head out of the HHI forums and fucking listen to some Jay Z. A lot of underground sucks, some doesnt. A lot of mainstream sucks, some doesnt. Jesus christ. listen to yourself.

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Re: Re: fashion rap

 

Originally posted by seeking innocence

3. hip hop came from the same streets, blocks, ghettos and neighborhoods that these kids you speak of live in. if anything, they should be pissed off that you dragged hip hop off to the suburbs to scrub her with bleach and then canonize her new form while condemning her old one. and i would go so far as to say you clearly have absolutely no idea what it is or where it came from.

 

They should be pissed off because white people took it to the suburbs???

how could they do this without rappers selling their product to them? and why should they care? its just more money in their pocket. i said this in another thread today. but i'll say it again. all the talk about the ice and how many bitches you have, and how many people you've robbed killed so on and so on. thats just glorify the shit that the people in the ghetto need to get away from. you know when a suburban white kid thinks he is a thug because he listens to that shit. do you not think the people in the ghetto feel the same way. whether they consiously know it or not. whatever

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fox, i would appreciate it if in the future, before you try and make an example of me, that you understand what im saying. just so theres no further misunderstandings, let me break it down line by line.

 

"hip hop came from the same streets, blocks, ghettos and neighborhoods that these kids you speak of live in. "

 

this was in response to the accusation that people that listen to 'fashion rap' dont know where hip hop came from, or what it is 'really' about.

 

"if anything, they should be pissed off that you dragged hip hop off to the suburbs to scrub her with bleach and then canonize her new form while condemning her old one."

 

the first important key here, is the 'if anything" placed at the front. im saying that if there is 'rights of ownership' to be had, it sure as shit does not fall with the people who came around twenty years late and 'discovered' it. thats like saying that columbus actually 'discovered' america.

 

the second is the phrase "scrub her with bleach then canonize her new form while condemning her old one"

by 'scrubing her with bleach' i am not refering to white emcees or white people in hip hop, i mean injecting a whole new set of alien morals, values and beliefs into an existing body. canonize means to sanctify, or give some sort of godlike divinity too. what i was saying is that if anyone is going to be pissed off about the state of hip hop, it should be black people, who had hip hop taken from them, mutated, then are being told that their hip hop is the 'wrong' hip hop, but this new version is the 'right' one. this is the exactly what happend to blues, jazz and rock and roll. it was considered 'bad' then a few white people got involved, homogonized it, made it marketable, then all of a sudden it was good.

 

think of christian missionaries that go into the jungles of south america. they go into a village of people that has existed for thousands of years. with them they bring 'jesus christ.' these people are now being told that their gods are wrong, and that jesus is right. why is he right? well, because the missionaries said so, thats why.

 

do you get my point?

 

i wont argue that the ghettos need more 'uplifting' messages in their lives, but until that upliftment is something they can relate to, they're never going to listen.

 

 

are we clear now?

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