Prayer

[the.crooked]

So I have been thinkin bout something.

 

 

Having grown up in the south, I have an intrinsic link to dogmatic christian idioms. But, as an atheist (simple term for complex beliefs) I find my relationship to such language quizzical.

 

I have also always really liked some prayers. To me, the notion of speaking to reality, or speaking tot he chances that can occur in your future related to the concepts that guide your choices is an interesting thing.

 

I think a lot about how and why I do what I do. Rarely do I find myself inclined to associate that sentiment with a more religious base, but I thought that this thread could be for posting prayers, koans, quotes from religious/philosophical texts, that you find particularly moving or striking.

 

To start it off here is the prayer Z-Ro recites at the beginning of this song "speak on it"

 

 

I don't know if it is a recognized prayer or any some such, but I find the words striking in how he poses his position of choice towards God's graces.

 

 

Good lord

I wanna thank you for wakin me up

To see another new day I never seen before

Forgive me of my sins

Whether they be by word, thought or deed,

Omission or Commission.

Lord please bless me

With the blessing you say I stand in need of

When I have done everything on this earth

That you have laid out for me to do

Lord, please bless me with a home

Some where in your kingom

Even the lowest of the low.

In Jesus name I pray.

Amen

 

 

 

The whole song, is in some sense a statement about sin and the moral relativism presented to most people who do not have the means to lead a completely "legitimate" life.

 

Anywho, Here is a link to the

for context.

 

Listen to the whole thing.

[WORDISM45]

has anyone ever mentioned how verbose you come across bra?

[the.crooked]

yup.

 

it is the bane of my writing.

 

the unfortunate thing is it is how i think.

 

I also type quickly so there is no censor between my thoughts and what gets put down.

[Dawood]

this is a prayer that I say at least 17 times a day. (although i recite it in Arabic, not english)

 

In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

 

All the praises and thanks be to Allâh, the Lord of the mankind, jinns and all that exists.

 

The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

 

The Only Owner and the Only Ruling Judge of the Day of Recompense, i.e. the Day of Resurrection.

 

You Alone we worship, and You Alone we ask for help for each and everything

 

Guide us to the Straight Way.

 

The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not the way of those who earned Your Anger , nor of those who went astray .

[LIVERWURST*]

has anyone ever mentioned how verbose you come across bra?

 

We can't all be simple.

[WORDISM45]

We can't all be simple.

 

wanker, if you don't understand the difference between verbosity and complexity you are the simpleton

[christo-f]

Any post that kicks off with the word wanker get the thumbs up from me!!

 

As I lay me down to sleep

I place this bag of peanuts at my feet.

If I die before I wake,

Give them to my brother Jake.

 

 

I grew up in a Christian family, but I am not Christian, nor do I pray. So sorry, that's the best I could do.

[the.crooked]

wanker, if you don't understand the difference between verbosity and complexity you are the simpleton

 

I think you meant to capitalize the "W" in "wanker."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/notserious

 

As far as being verbose, mehh. It is better than being stupid. If it takes a second read through to grab my thoughts rather than a dismissive single glance, I would rather have the unneeded words cause that.

 

One of my professors once told me she was always frustrated with my papers cus it took her reading them twice to get them, I told her "good, I want that to happen."

 

Particularly in college where professors just glaze over students work, give incomplete and shoddy advice, if the most they can pin on me is convoluted syntax, then I am happy.

[El Mamerro]

One of my professors once told me she was always frustrated with my papers cus it took her reading them twice to get them, I told her "good, I want that to happen."

 

No... that's not really what you want to happen. Not if you want to be succesful in whatever you choose to do.

[the.crooked]

I know I know.

 

 

Cracked Ass and I went through this in the Philo thread.

 

 

I know it may not make sense to yall, but this has been a trend since I was in middle school.

 

I have tried for years to change the way I write and speak, it don't quite happen,

 

But that is not what this thread is about.

 

 

Back on topic everyone.

 

Did anyone listen to the link I posted?

[Decyferon]

I tried to listen to it, I managed to about the minute mark

 

not quite sure what to say to it really, I find it very amusing that so many rappers are religious yet completely contrast it in a lot that they say.

 

On the topic of prayer though, I personally don't pray, I would never its that simple to me. But I suppose it is very easy as an atheist to take that view point. I personally don't have a problem with people praying I just find it remarkably futile, it is no different to talking to an imaginary friend in my eyes. If it makes people feel better then fair play, I just can't budge against my strict anti-religious views and prayer falls into that.

 

I won't push my beliefs on anyone else so don't want theirs pushed on me, so i only find offense with people that push their religion on others, hence I don't mind people praying unless they try and get me to join in

[MAR]

ug...too many to post...we love to pray. psalms is 50 prayers and a lot of them are in our daily prayers.

 

i do like one particular short prayer, which reminds me Im never alone.

 

"In the name of G-d Lord of Israel: At my right is Michael, at my left Gavriel, in front of me is Uriel, and behind me is Rephael, and on my head is the spirit of G-d."

 

The angels represent different things. To break it down, basically, Michael represents protection, Gavriel, strength, Uriel, guidance, Rephael, healing.

[WORDISM45]

so do jews say god out loud and just not write it? if not do you say the word god when you pray?

[the.crooked]

i am glad this thread is pickin up.

 

 

Decy- I think that is one of the things I find so striking about such rap, the necessary action of survival based on a need to maintain a life adhering to idealistic religious ideals. On par with Z-Ro I put the mysticism of Bone Thugs up for display. The relationship to the Ouija board as an out of this world direction to their seemingly senseless actions. Iono I have been thinkin bout this type of hip hop compared to the moral and aesthetic nihilism proposed by Nietzsche and applied by Quine in terms of scientific meaning. To me, it is about the necessary relationship of a person to any belief structure, and how we mold the our rationalizations of our actions to maintain and uphold the higher metaphysical framework we adhere to.

 

You can not tell me those dudes do not know the bible. I am sure he knows christianity much better than you or I, particularly in that we are atheists ourselves.

 

Also, give the full song a listen to. Have you ever read religious texts you don't believe in? This is no different. Even if you don't dig the music, just get through the song. Only in full contemplation can actual critique be considered.

 

 

Dawood and MAR-

I think an interesting thing is looking at the relationship between survival and the request of God to be the guiding factors in choices related to earthly survival. Yes, the ultimate position is framed in the everlasting beyond of heaven and hell, but that outcome is dependent upon earthly actions and those actions are only continually possible if one survives. Pardon the pragmatic and outsider interpretation, but to me, prayer is a call upon oneself to make a choice, any choice, but some choice and hopefully to have that choice guided by the overarching structure (whatever it may be) that has guided the majority of past successful choices in life.

 

I see prayer to whatever god we may choose as no different then my appeals to myself. Particularly in that I believe myself to be comprised of physical information processing structures that I have no conscious access to. So when you appeal to an other worldly god it is no different then when I appeal to a process I know will happen but I do not know its outcome until it has already occurred.

 

Just some thoughts.

[MAR]

In Judaism prayer is used to connect ourselves to the creator and also to our fellow people. almost all our prayers use plurality, meaning we ask for all not just ourselves. One nation with one heart.

so do jews say god out loud and just not write it? if not do you say the word god when you pray?

we say it in prayer but we try not to use his names for arbitrary reasons.

[Decyferon]

i am glad this thread is pickin up.

 

 

Decy- I think that is one of the things I find so striking about such rap, the necessary action of survival based on a need to maintain a life adhering to idealistic religious ideals. On par with Z-Ro I put the mysticism of Bone Thugs up for display. The relationship to the Ouija board as an out of this world direction to their seemingly senseless actions. Iono I have been thinkin bout this type of hip hop compared to the moral and aesthetic nihilism proposed by Nietzsche and applied by Quine in terms of scientific meaning. To me, it is about the necessary relationship of a person to any belief structure, and how we mold the our rationalizations of our actions to maintain and uphold the higher metaphysical framework we adhere to.

 

You can not tell me those dudes do not know the bible. I am sure he knows christianity much better than you or I, particularly in that we are atheists ourselves.

 

Also, give the full song a listen to. Have you ever read religious texts you don't believe in? This is no different. Even if you don't dig the music, just get through the song. Only in full contemplation can actual critique be considered.

 

 

Dawood and MAR-

I think an interesting thing is looking at the relationship between survival and the request of God to be the guiding factors in choices related to earthly survival. Yes, the ultimate position is framed in the everlasting beyond of heaven and hell, but that outcome is dependent upon earthly actions and those actions are only continually possible if one survives. Pardon the pragmatic and outsider interpretation, but to me, prayer is a call upon oneself to make a choice, any choice, but some choice and hopefully to have that choice guided by the overarching structure (whatever it may be) that has guided the majority of past successful choices in life.

 

I see prayer to whatever god we may choose as no different then my appeals to myself. Particularly in that I believe myself to be comprised of physical information processing structures that I have no conscious access to. So when you appeal to an other worldly god it is no different then when I appeal to a process I know will happen but I do not know its outcome until it has already occurred.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

I do agree with you I should have given the whole thing a listen to but cannot as am in work, so my next point might not be directly linked to that particular act, but what i find amusing about rap and particularly gangster rap is that they are all praying to god or thanking god then live their life promoting things directly against the religious beliefs i.e. murder, coveting, adultery etc. Not all but some, I'm not really for sweeping generalisations!!

 

I have read some religious texts and am of the belief that these books and texts were meant to teach lesser educated people guides to living not belief and fact. I find the writing remarkably dull and I cannot disattach my non-belief while reading which makes it very hard to be subjective on the matter. Also, I have only read Christian texts so am not commenting on other religions texts.

 

Religious discussion is always a thorny topic for me as it is something I do feel strongly about, not religion as a whole but religion as a dictator of life and choice.