LIVERWURST* Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 ^Thank you comrade for such an insightful link. You have helped bring control of the motherland that much closer to totalitarian socialist rule! But no, seriously though, a blow to the electoral process is a blow to everyone. I don't see exactly what you're thinking on this link, can you help me out? Guides like that are not uncommon so in reading it I expected something to grab me. Did I miss it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 ^Thank you comrade for such an insightful link. You have helped bring control of the motherland that much closer to totalitarian socialist rule! But no, seriously though, a blow to the electoral process is a blow to everyone. I don't see exactly what you're thinking on this link, can you help me out? Guides like that are not uncommon so in reading it I expected something to grab me. Did I miss it? showing up at 11:00 and kicking people out of line at 11:30, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I prefer my baby raw as well. Cooking the baby robs it of all of its flavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Interesting critique of libertarianism here... http://world.std.com/~mhuben/libindex.html Telling quote "This is no surprise, as libertarianism is basically the Marxism of the Right. If Marxism is the delusion that one can run society purely on altruism and collectivism, then libertarianism is the mirror-image delusion that one can run it purely on selfishness and individualism. Society in fact requires both individualism and collectivism, both selfishness and altruism, to function. Like Marxism, libertarianism offers the fraudulent intellectual security of a complete a priori account of the political good without the effort of empirical investigation. Like Marxism, it aspires, overtly or covertly, to reduce social life to economics. And like Marxism, it has its historical myths and a genius for making its followers feel like an elect unbound by the moral rules of their society." The article also has interesting passages dealing with the nature of freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 our founding fathers would weep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 that's not an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 that's not an argument. i didn't feel like saying much more. i will if you'd like. first, let's define libertarian. ||}The term libertarianism usually refers to a political philosophy maintaining that all persons are the absolute owners of their own lives, and should be free to do whatever they wish with their persons or property, as long as they allow others the same liberty. ok, so, that's done. these people are calling it communist to want to own your own life? and that the idea of freedom is marxist? and liberty: autonomy: immunity from arbitrary exercise of authority: political independence freedom of choice; "liberty of opinion"; "liberty of worship"; "liberty--perfect liberty--to think or feel or do just as one pleases"; "at liberty to choose whatever occupation one wishes" personal freedom from servitude or confinement or oppression shore leave: leave granted to a sailor or naval officer familiarity: an act of undue intimacy yeah, jeez, that sounds horrible and communist.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Casek, Read the criticisms of the writer. He compares Marxism to Libertarianism in three ways, the first, that Marxism and Libertarianism idealize the capabilities of the collective and individuals respectively, that both apply basically economic theories to society as a whole, and that the followers of each tend to canonize the originators of the philosophy. The last criticism is not fair though. However, it can be said that both Libertarian and Marxist theory lean on the idea that their tenets are supported by immutable scientific laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinksmall Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 People have been discussing that since Marx came out with his treatise, its not as much a controversial issue as it is a scholarly issue. Marx believed that free market society would evolve into a Marxist society. His political views are very similar to those who believe in the free market and his true followers were not fans of collectivism - they were for liberty. Marx would probably chill with Ron Paul if dude was still living. Economically, Marx believed that the free market wouldn't last and that it would force recessions and depressions. And that to fix this the wealthy elite would make almost-temporary solutions and serve the working class fictionally.... which he believed would not work; he thought there'd be a violent overthrow of a temporary remedial elitist dictatorship that would occur. ^Super para-phrased. You should really read his writings and shit. I'm not sure if its a criticism when you're comparing a not very known ideology to one of the most revolutionary ideology in the world; one which was so favored that half the world believed in it. Marx is one of the greatest scholars in like, ever. Look at Liberals and Fascists is what you should do... haha. Current Liberalism is almost exact to some Marx's predictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Marx's over emphasis of economics is a very common academic criticism of his work. BTW, I am aware of his importance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Feast Island Man Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 our founding fathers would weep. weren't they all freemasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 weren't they all freemasons? not all of them. george washington later distanced himself from freemasonry. he thought it got a little too fucked up. masons are responsible for the boston tea party.... obviously, not all masons are bad people. just the 33 degrees....and up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 connection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 btw: russell, i'm reading up more on the marxist/libertarian criticism that you posted. i don't understand enough of it right now to comment. just letting you know so i don't get mistaken for avoiding the issue. just need to know more to be able to argue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 cool beans. Just a warning, there is plenty of bullshit to sift through to find the good arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 i read that marxism of the right article the week it came out when i used to subscribe to american conservative. i thought it was a good article. i recognize the points that are made, but i reject alot of them. it is also safe to say, that i have turned more libertarian than conservative in the past couple years. the heart of the debate between conservatives and libertarians, (im talking conservatives of the russell kirk mold, not the bush mold) is the degree of which the state should interfere with legislating morals. some libertarians are essentially anarchists. that is fine and dandy, but they also support limited government. if they didnt, it would be stupid. it would be like not supporting tax cuts when you support no taxes at all. i digress... the conservatives have said that local communities can regulate things like strip clubs in the communities or prostitution, etc. libertarianism gets the label of being utopian because of the extreme consistency in the philosophy. most people are not that consistent. i have however become convinced that liberty is the mother of order and not its daughter. but you can safely say that true conservatives and libertarians are so similar on 90% of things that the rest is miniscule. but all you hear about is those 2 groups hacking each other apart over that last 10%. the same arguments can be seen today in ron pauls candidacy. where as ron paul is a right libertarian and supports decentralized pro life positions and control, the left libertarians support open borders and pro choice positions. good link though russell. im gonna have to sort through that stuff one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVERWURST* Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Ya know MRL.. you still didnt answer me. Do you support a war with Iran? I feel like I'm arguing with scientologists.. hahahaha Figured I'd take this discussion here. How do you all feel about Iran? In my mind if they truly are directly supporting attacks against the troops, it should be considered, but it seems there isn't much taalk about that anymore - though news and fact are not the same. I'm reluctant though because what limited news I've read on it never provides proof, but insteads quotes a government official obliged to support the claim (thank you news outlets). The nuke argument has debunked and I think if we did attacked it would be a war with little support anywhere, including here. I'm not against the use of our military, but it is over extended and used for political reasons that often cyclically lead to threats against us which leads to a need for further military action. Iran is an example of this so to move against it should be a last resort... *edit to clarify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Fuentes Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 George Washington distanced himself from the masons? i didnt know that, but i think i heard it before. it comes with influence of good friends or family that you enter masonry. but a free thinker always gets out of it. for example, Simon Bolivar, the great liberator of South America, the man who is mentioned by Chavez a lot was a mason too, but later in life wrote letters and manifested saying the masons were a bunch of "crazies", locos. the lower degrees of masons are a smoke screen to divert attention from the higher levels of masonry which are the ones causing the evil on earth. we know that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinksmall Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Figured I'd take this discussion here. How do you all feel about Iran? In my mind if they truly are directly supporting attacks against the troops, it should be considered, but it seems there isn't much taalk about that anymore - though news and fact are not the same. I'm reluctant though because what limited news I've read on it never provides proof, but insteads quotes a government official obliged to support the claim (thank you news outlets). The nuke argument has debunked and I think if we did attacked it would be a war with little support anywhere, including here. I'm not against the use of our military, but it is over extended and used for political reasons that often cyclically lead to threats against us which leads to a need for further military action. Iran is an example of this so to move against it should be a last resort... *edit to clarify I guess thats an answer. I still feel unsettled though. And I still hate you. Whatevs.. DR. PAUL '08!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVERWURST* Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Things are only black and white in Ron Paul world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Things are only black and white in Ron Paul world. explain yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 weren;t all of the founding fathers teh uber 33 degree masons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 weren;t all of the founding fathers teh uber 33 degree masons? no, only some were masons. and hardly any were high degree's. washington later distanced himself form the masonic order, jefferson wasn't real big into it, etc. (this deja vu?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinksmall Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Martin Luther King and Ron Paul!!!!!! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SAWClI8zsH4 Ron Paul Rising! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MRTDynbHVYQ lol dude's videos are silly. but i liike. mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 He don't make them bra'. His supporters do it. Most of them are pretty passionate about what they believe in, which is why the video's come out like they do, but yeah most of them get me to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVERWURST* Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 This is who youre voting for. JK... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinksmall Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 lol............................ And ilots, my usage of the word dude was referred the dude who made the video, dude. But whatevs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Gotcha. I thought you meant that he was putting out those videos. Some of them can be a tad ridiculous, just making sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinksmall Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 “Ron Paul knows the Constitution…and I’m with that.” - John Mayer “I think I’m going to vote for the libertarian — Ron Paul” - David Letterman “Ron Paul is talking about the issues. These other candidates and these parties don’t want to talk about the fact that this superpower is spending hundreds of billions of dollars carrying out a global war–it’s unsustainable. So there’s no discussion….These candidates are not being straightforward.“ - Lou Dobbs “He’s my guy! I love Ron Paul!” - Chris Matthew “It’s refreshing to interview a politician who doesn’t mince words. It’s even more refreshing to interview one who understands the benefits of limited government.” - John Stossel "“There are 535 people on Capitol Hill whose job it is to write the laws that govern all of us, and he is one of them. There are 535 people on Capitol Hill whose job it is to preserve the Constitution, and he is one of them. There are 535 people on Capitol Hill whose job it is to preserve our liberties, and he is one of them. But in his heart and in his head, in his character and in his intellect, and in what he has done and in what he will become — the Thomas Jefferson of our day — Ron Paul is one of us!” - Andrew P. Napolitano “Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country.” - Ronald Reagan “You know who I’m digging is that Ron Paul guy… I didn’t know anything about him until a few days ago. I was watching something on Fox News… and they were interviewing Ron Paul… So I’m listening to the dude and afterwards, you know Beth is sitting next to me, and I didn’t say anything, but then all of a sudden I went ‘You know I think I agree with everything that dude just said.’ And then she goes, ‘I did, too!’ I go, ‘I don’t know who that guy is… he wants us out of Iraq, like, I mean, Day 1… he’s a Republican… I just found out yesterday because somebody wrote me after I talked about the guy, that he’s the only Congressman — he’s the only one who stood up for us abot the FCC, saying that they should have complete freedom on the radio — and, he’s for abolishing the FCC!” - Howard Stern “You’re working for the most honest man in Congress.” - John McCain “Congressman Ron Paul, you appear to have consistent, principled integrity.” - John Stewart “He’s a major player…quite appealing as a politician, when he speaks about ending the IRS and the personal income tax.” - Gore Vidal “[Ron Paul’s] a great guy. I really like him. I have been a friend of his for 10 years. I attend what’s called the Liberty Caucus every Thursday in his office. We have a great time, it’s very stimulating.” - Tom Tancredo “I always feel like I’m out there by myself criticizing this institution that everybody thinks is like a holy temple, when the reality is these are just men and women like you and me except for they’re making policy with no checks and balances,” Cramer tells the GOP presidential candidate. “I wish you the best of luck, sir, with your campaign. You are changing things with what you’re saying.” - Jim Cramer “I think an enormous part of the Republican Party believes that Ron Paul was the only man who was right on Iraq. He opposed going in, he opposes a foreign policy or interventionism, he’s the one candidate who goes after the neoconservatives and says their influence has got to be removed. And I think wisely in his judgment, he will bring troops home from Cold War commitments of long ago where they don’t belong. “I like him personally, I know him personally… I will say that he is also the one candidate that everybody knows who fought against big government. He voted against unsure Medicare, the prescription drugs, and No Child Left Behind. He’s consistent, he’s courageous.” - Patrick J. Buchanan “The Ron Paul people are all over the country. They are. They’re all over the country and obviously very enthusiastic.” - Giuliani “Ron Paul is the most extraordinary statesman in American history. His peaceful revolution is undoing a century of statism and war.” - Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr., President of the Ludwig von Mises Institute “I mean, obviously in the end I’ll vote for Ron Paul.” - Tucker Carlson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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