WORDISM45 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 does that mean a christian is a muslim as well because he submits to god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 yeah sorry dude but a book written 1400 years ago about events that happened what 5000 years ago doesn't cut it. it's like saying the world was created in 6000bc because the bible says so it's like saying giants and angels walked the earth because the old testament says so no, it's like saying, show me a contradiction in the quran, there aren't any. You can go google "contradiction in the quran" and you'll find plenty of jinned up articles but I've looked at them, and they are all lies, so if you want to go that route I can show you the fabrication one by one. i have time. The only way a book that was (not written) but inspired 1400 years ago and talked about events 5000 years ago and more could possibly be true and accurate every time would be if they were revealed by the creator. the bible saying the earth was created in 6000bc is a pack of garbage and everyone knows that. because the bible is man made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 does that mean a christian is a muslim as well because he submits to god? No, a christian does not submit to God. a christian beleives that Jesus is God or Gods son and therefore "worships other Gods beside him" breaking one of the ten commandments. A muslim is one who submits to God (not worshipping other Gods beside him) submitting to God's word (the quran) and the teachings of Muhammad in their entirety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 but abraham and moses didnlt submit to the quran therefore they musn't be. And you're using a circular argument in saying that everything in the Quran about what happened 5000 years ago is true because the Quran says it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Abraham and Moses were given their own revelation that they submitted to before the quran was revealed and circular or not, everything connected to success in this life and the afterlife is in the quran that's why it's called "al firqaan" meaning the criteria. it's what we (as humans) use to judge by, as opposed to our whims and desires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Wait... Casek lived in Clearwater? I'm pretty sure this is one of those things that I've been supposed to know but have been willfully (and blissfully) unaware... so, Scientology is now exploding across Central Florida. They recently opened an 'Awareness Center' in downtown Plant City... those that have never had the pleasure can hardly imagine the tumble weeds now but it's named for a post-civil war railroad tycoon... anyway... I saw the news report not too long ago and, within, a representative of 'the faith' explained away concerns about the policy of "Testing"... Basically, the first test is free (ya heard the song?)... thereafter, to achieve higher levels of??? Well I don't know, certainly higher social status within the religion's community, but other characterisations fail me... I don't know wether to represent the cost as a cover charge or donation... Still, to achieve 'higher levels' you must pass certain 'tests'... it all gets pretty 'Masonic' ... What I can say without quotes is that to truly achieve the highest levels of enlightenment in this religion you have got to pay. A LOT. This isn't a rant against tithing, I'm not sure what Islam requires but from the HRO on down in Xian styles it's usually 10%... I'm not exactly on the numbers here but I'm pretty sure there's a fixed schedule as to the scientology tests.... it costs X amount to achieve X level (assuming that you pass the test)... I heard a Scientology representative try to explain this increasing schedule of costs as a 'learning curve'... She said that Scientology is a means with which we can all conquer the universe (not exactly in those words but it's what she said). She then justified the test cost as being comparable to a "medical education". She explained that, just as it costs medical students huge sums of money to complete their education it also takes huge sums of money to reach the highest levels of achievement in 'the church'... She explained away the problem saying, we're teaching you a skill, and once you learn this skill you can enter Heaven (or whatever they call it)... She actually used the word "skill"... So, my question, mainly, is how come this group should profit (not prophet) from teaching us the 'skills' needed to get into their heaven... why do they get tax exempt status? I understand apprentiship... the thing is, carpentry shops, tattoo shops, car shops, all kinds... these guys 'employ' their appretices and pay taxes on them... I don't think you shouild have to apprentice your religion... you're in or you're out but your wallet shouldn't ever enter the equation. and if what you are teaching is actually a skill then...I guess it's not a religion. tax the faithful, great strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Dude, it's a scam. They have levels, the higher you go the more you are taught about this mockery of a religion. You gain these levels only by "training" with that thetan therapy nonsense and then you have to pay even more once you qualify to advance. The later levels cost tens of thousands of dollars, maybe even hundreds of thousands. Tom Cruise is at like, level 7 or something and there's I think 14 total. After level 6 or 7, the only place where you can be taught from that point on is in their blue asbestos-ridden cruise ship that has to stay in international waters or else the I.R.S. will seize the ship. That is why you hear these horror stories about relatives, parents, that get suckered in and wind up with the bank foreclosing on their mortgage and the kids losing their college fund. It's like "Lost", where you know it kinda sucks and there's not going to be any real answers but you just keep going back in the hope that you'll finally figure what that black-fog nanobot monster is and just exactly what the fuck that polar bear was doing on the island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serum Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 It's like "Lost", where you know it kinda sucks and there's not going to be any real answers but you just keep going back in the hope that you'll finally figure what that black-fog nanobot monster is and just exactly what the fuck that polar bear was doing on the island. :lol: i'm glad that i'm not the only frustrated with that series. its like what the hell does season finale actually mean? sorry off topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stay cruel Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Stay cruel, the evidence for God is all around you, it's everywhere, it's everything. If someone showed you a Cadillac Escalade and said, "you know this escalade created itself from no help or intervention from a manufacterer, the metal , plastic and rubber just smashed into eachother and formed this vehicle , AMAZING HUH? Nobody would beleive that, but you will however beleive that an organism, much more complex than a cadillac escalade created itself and even more, the whole universe morphed itself miraculously when a simple fly can't even produce itself from nothing. That would be just plain ridiculous to believe.. And to yumone, the definition of Atheist is "one who does not believe in God" I'm not saying I don't believe in god, I'm just saying that I do not know if a god exists.. I don't see how there is one.. That's agnosticism. If there were proof of god(s) existing.. I would believe in one. It's all a matter of common sense. I have nothing against a God of anysort if there is a god. However, it kind of bugs me how people just come up with these rules of god that are kind of ridiculous.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 well, I guess that's the test, then. There is evidence of God everywhere, and yet, you want to see God personally, that will be one of the main the differences between the beleiver and the non beleiver on the day of judgement. You took , but gave no thanks to the one who gave it all to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 i always thought agnosticism meant that you believed in some kind of higher power but it was undefined, looks liek i was wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 i always thought agnosticism meant that you believed in some kind of higher power but it was undefined No, that's Gnosticism... Agnosticism means you don't deny the possibility of an undefined higher power but you don't know whether it exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 basically, Agnosticism is confusion....the absence of certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 basically, Agnosticism is confusion....the absence of certainty. Exactly... it's the most generic of the 'faith states'... a Gnostic knows there is 'something', a Thiest knows there is 'someone', and an Athiest knows there is 'nothing'... an Agnostic isn't sure about any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Gnostics taught that humans were divine souls trapped in a material world created by an evil spirit, the demiurge. In order to free oneself from the evil, material world, one needed gnosis, or spiritual knowledge. Initiates were instructed in secret teachings to help them achieve gnosis. God was depicted as a pleroma composed of multiple manifestations. damn that shit sounds like scientology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 basically, Agnosticism is confusion....the absence of certainty. It would be a mistake to equate "the absence of certainty" with "confusion." People that are agnostic are not confused, they simply recognize that existence of a supreme deity has not been conclusively proven using empirical evidence. This represents an undeniable fact, not confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 ok, I'm gonna have to give oer to Russell on the 'uncertainty doesn't equal confusion' tip but I'm gonna have to refute Yum (reallt Wiki) on the idea that gnosticism can be distilled down to a singular set of beliefs like Judaism. I would agree that there were certain Gnostics who held those beliefs but the word itself encompasses a much larger group than just those who 'waved the flag' at some point in the past. *Notice that the Wiki quote is in past tense, as if gnosticism has gone the way of the Dodo. Basically (VERY basically) anyone who says "I'm not religious but I'm spiritual" is a gnostic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 yeha i was having a laugh with that quote mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVERWURST* Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 It would be a mistake to equate "the absence of certainty" with "confusion." People that are agnostic are not confused, they simply recognize that existence of a supreme deity has not been conclusively proven using empirical evidence. This represents an undeniable fact, not confusion. My best friend who is an Christian intellectual (a weird definition, but he actually cares and reads and has been published) tells me I'm agnostic. He is certainly a better representation of a religion that seeks to save people, not force their views in te same manner that people here often do. Your definition is on point aside from one aspect he and I accept - it is the reluctance to commit to an idea, but the hope that it might be true. Agnostics are just as honest as religious people in that they have pondered the idea, but can't lie to themselves, friends, or a God about what they believe. I'd rather the world be "confused" and open to new ideas rather than a sense that we all took sides out of fear in the face of rational analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serum Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 wednesday night nightline biology of morality it shows that athiests and spiritual people tend to make the same moral decisions regardless of their religious background hmm maybe it will be interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
localyokel Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 dawood, some of your points are quite intelligent and well thought out, but how can you then write off christianity so easily? in so doing you are doing exactly what the others are...this is bullshit because it is, but this is true even though the justification would also justify the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serum Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 BBC reporter loses is as he interviews scientoligists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakeenyc Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 i think the dude who played chef ,(issaac hayes?) left the show cuz of teh scientology episode they had... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stronzo Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 This i can believe in.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabloid- Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 No, a christian does not submit to God. a christian beleives that Jesus is God or Gods son and therefore "worships other Gods beside him" breaking one of the ten commandments. A muslim is one who submits to God (not worshipping other Gods beside him) submitting to God's word (the quran) and the teachings of Muhammad in their entirety. To my understanding Christians believe that Christ & God are the same, and thus only worship 1 God. As far as contradictions ( or lack of) in the quran, bible, torah... you may be correct. Unfortunately it's the application/ interpretation of those texts that cause the most problems. But we are a tribal species, so if it wasn't a religious text it would be something else. either way scientologists have got to be some of the dumbest people on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the district Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 What is with the number 12 ?!?! Why can't scientology be like, statistically if you get up at 7am and go to bed at 11pm you will be happier than if you followed any other sleeping pattern. You know scientific things of the sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVERWURST* Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Germany moves to ban Scientology BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- Germany's top security officials said Friday they consider the goals of Church of Scientology to be in conflict with the principles of the nation's constitution and will seek to ban the organization. The interior ministers of the nation's 16 states plan to give the nation's domestic intelligence agency the task of preparing the necessary information to ban the organization, which has been under observation for a decade on allegations that it "threatens the peaceful democratic order" of the country. The ministers, as well as federal Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble, "consider Scientology to be an organization that is not compatible with the constitution," said Berlin Interior Minister Ehrhart Koerting, who presided over the officials' two-day conference. Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/12/07/germany.scientology.ap/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezekill Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 even tho Big Brother Schäuble is the personification of evil himself i'm gonna applaude him on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smacky636 Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 All religions of the world's religions started out as cults, just like Scientology. Don't be surprised if its still around in 500 years. It's the perfect religion for our times, it's sci-fi and it's a business. People worship money and technology anyway, Hubbard just organized those feelings into a portable set of beliefs. Good point when i first started reading about the religion i thought to myself "wtf, this sounds like a pyramid scheme." Later on wikipedia i read many ppl believe this religion is a pyramid scheme. Go figure, right? Further down it was saying scientology blames psychiatry and antidepression meds for basically all the wars in the world starting from WWI to the present, including 9/11. I can seem some legitacy in making this statment but it's gonna be pretty hard to pin everything on those 2 factors. Food for thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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