r3ader Posted March 18, 2007 Author Share Posted March 18, 2007 AOD, no kidding on the guys saying they didn't know? that's classic. i've had a few that came by and were real cool, but this last guy kept coming back with his whole family with him and that was a little odd. Joker, i concur, it's unsettling when people of any religious group take a position of "what i say is ALWAYS right", but unfortunately, it's not just Christians and Catholics, although a major tenet of the Christian faith (particularly the Catholic faith) is that their religion is the right religion, mandated by G-d, but with a broad belief system that leaves a lot up the air and allows people to think their particular belief on something is what it was supposed to mean. that's scary. And some of the things you speak of are stated in the Bible (we're saying KJV version right now not a Torah or Quran) or hinted at in the Bible but either (a) are not stated outright or (b) are directly acted against by the writers. For example, you mention man shall not war with man, i.e. thou shalt not kill. However, there's many instances in the Torah/Old Testament where good Israelites/Jews killed people. Does that mean it's "don't kill people you know", or "try not to kill but it's acceptable in certain situations"? who knows. And yes, i agree, most people use bits of their faith to justify their lifestyles. I, for example, having a weakness for graffiti but am very strong about not womanizing, etc. I personally think that, since I try not to write anymore and such, that although it's surely a sin that it's better than going to the strip club like other guys i know (other married guys, that is, and i'm getting married soon: going to the strip club if you're single and into that is fine with me) so i don't trip on it. Does that mean I won't have to answer to my G-d about what I've done? Of course I will!! But i'll tell you right now, I've done a lot worse things than graffiti in my life and i can live with those extra "strikes against me". It does say in the Torah/Old Testament for men not to lay with men but most modern Jews acknowledge that being gay isn't something you necessarily choose and most believe that you're going to sin, so try not to commit a ton of sins all the time and try to be a good person. And realistically dude I think you're right, if you're into a certain faith you should abide by it, but at the same time, to be human is to err, so I'm not going to be mad at people who sin, but I'm with you on the concept that harping on others is for sure wrong. Jesus/Yeshua said (Gospel of Thomas) "26. Yeshua says: The mote, which is in thy brother's eye, thou see—but the plank that is in thine own eye thou see not. When thou cast the plank out of thine own eye, then shall thou see clearly to cast the mote out of thy brother's eye." So it goes against a basic Christian belief to attack others when you yourself are not perfect, and NO BODY'S perfect. on the same token, i don't think it's fair for you to say if you break the law at all whatsoever you can't call yourself a member of a religious group: I speed all the time while driving, does that make me not a child of G-d? Once i finish converting to Judaism, I'll still break (man's, as in my local county's) law if I feel like it: does that make me not a Jew? I wouldn't claim to be an orthodox Jew because they would agree with your line of thought; i just think it makes a lot of people's lives easier to identify with other people; being a Christian, Catholic, Hindu, Jew whatever allows this. Muslims can definitely question things... what a strange concept (that was presented). Look into history, Muslims creating many of the advances that allow for modern life, don't act like they're all sheep herders who do terrible things or something, they're pillars of society and so you know, most gas stations and fast food restaurants are owned by good Muslims, so when you get a good deal on gas or enjoy that James Coney Island hot dog or whatever, say "thanks Muslims!!" Hope you're having a good weekend, Dawood. And men are for sure sinners! In today's society, it's next to impossible not to sin! not that i'm making excuses for it, but i'm telling it how it is. I think it's sad when people come to hate religion because certain people abused religion to twist peoples' heads up, but at the end of the day, we all make our own decisions. I read the Desa "Million Dollar Vandal" book this weekend: dude doesn't believe in G-d because his grandma was hit and killed on Christmas day. Does that mean G-d is evil? No it means the guy driving the car who killed her is an asshole. Does not believing in G-d make Desa a bad guy? No, the actions he chooses to take or not to take in his life decide that. But we all have to find a way to cope with our lives and for some people, religion helps, for others, being anti-religious helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 not to mention, r3ader....christmas is a made up day that has nothing to do with God or Jesus. Americans need to read more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3ader Posted March 18, 2007 Author Share Posted March 18, 2007 This is true; most Christian holidays (Easter, etc) are to-the-day replacements of Pagan holidays. But when you're converting Hellenistic people, usually Pagans, as the early Catholics were, you gotta cater to your customer, yaaaa diiiigggggggg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 ok, I see, but actually, what went down is the kings like constantinoble who recently had converted to christianity didn't want to give up his pagan celebration, so he just went ahead and added it into christianity and imposed it onto people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 exactly russell. government is not society. im sure God got joy out of any christian behind the Iron Curtain practicing christianity when it was against the law and im sure God is behind the people being killed indonesia right now for being evangelical christians. "people make mistakes and just because someone commits a sin does not expel him from being a beleiver." yup. the 3 religions in question on this thread all teach that all men are sinners. And I could add to this the somewhat obvious assertionsthat legal and illegal oftentimes have little relation to right and wrong... Take drug laws for instance... Who is to say that it is wrong to smoke pot or trip on mescaline or smoke opium?.. These things have all been "good" to one culture or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 All points well taken. And yes, I was being extreme in my last post, you're absolutely right. I guess if you know what you're doing and are fine with it and can live with it... that's all that matters. That seems to be the bottom line I'm getting. I'm not sure anything that I read here or learn outside is going to change my perception (kinda warped?) on religion but I certainly do appreciate the conversation. AOD... maybe I'm being hypocritcal now but I would assume that breaking the law for your faith, in God's eyes, is decent. That said... I doubt going from underpass to underpass across America and writing Trust Jesus on every single one is what God had in mind. Or choosing the name Truth and tagging all over your city and hitting freights. Russell... currently it's wrong to do any of those things because the society you live in deems it so. While other cultures, past or present, used certain drugs and those cultures were fine with it... none of them can get by here in the states. Your statement is right but I'm pretty certain it won't get you too far in a court of law here in the states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3ader Posted March 18, 2007 Author Share Posted March 18, 2007 Dawood, i don't think it was really forced on people. Look at it like this: Pagans were used to celebrating Solstice. So, when Solstice time of year comes around, you're going to have an issue with the people converting back because they have positive memories about Solstice if they don't have a similar holiday to celebrate: hence Christmas. Joker, i'm not one to say what G-d thinks but i personally would like to see 50-color burners of the phrase "Have Faith" all over town... but that's just my opinion, and at the end of the day, if it's not a legal piece you take a big risk or offending someone. That's the weird part to me: graffiti with permission is somehow art but without permission it's vandalism; but i guess it's like sex, it's okay in certain circumstances (such as when married) but not under others (when not married, etc). But again these i think are cultural issues, not necessarily issues that G-d is concerned about; although He very well may be. oh, and religious right to use drugs can certainly help you win in court. there's a number of marijuana-friendly churches that if you're a member, and can afford a decent lawyer, you quite likely could beat a misdemeanor possession case. Native Americans with hallucinogens is a perfect example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Dawood, i don't think it was really forced on people. Look at it like this: Pagans were used to celebrating Solstice. So, when Solstice time of year comes around, you're going to have an issue with the people converting back because they have positive memories about Solstice if they don't have a similar holiday to celebrate: hence Christmas. yeah, that was probably most likely how it went down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chie Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 it depends on how graffiti influence the person and how he/she use the skill. Graffiti cannot be condemn as a sin meerly bacause of its history or the person's perception. There should be an action that can be categorized as evil and as a sin. If it is used for destructive puropses or the like, then it is a sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoneTWS Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 how can a person be "not allowed" to question anything? Theres millions of muslims in AMERICA!!! the most free thinking wide open society on earth and you think that muslims are "not allowed" to question. That'r rediculous, most of the time this "questioning" will lead to nothing but stronger faith in a muslim anyway, so questions are fine. How can a person learn without questions? I have questions all the time, and I even ask them, (can you imagin that?) Then usually, what happens is I suppose the imam of my community figures he'll spare me the beheading this time for the evil sin of questioning, and he actually gives me a knowledge based answer and my heart is settled on faith in the truth. ....Imagine that? don't make inaccurate ASSumptions, bro. Ok perhaps that was a bit uncalled for to generalize muslims like that. I know at least the radicalized fascist muslims that we hear about all the time discourage questioning the quran or whatever. Christians do the same thing, but doesnt seem as prevalent. If I were in charge of a religion I would probably discourage questioning it as well, since to me the more questioning you do of a religion the more likely you are to realize its all bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLoveRamen Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I don't think graffiti is a sin, but writing can certainly become a sin when it isn't done in moderation or becomes an uncontrollable bad habit, or you try to make a religion out of it, and when it starts to get in the way with your relationship with the Father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Ok perhaps that was a bit uncalled for to generalize muslims like that. I know at least the radicalized fascist muslims that we hear about all the time discourage questioning the quran or whatever. Christians do the same thing, but doesnt seem as prevalent. If I were in charge of a religion I would probably discourage questioning it as well, since to me the more questioning you do of a religion the more likely you are to realize its all bullshit. that's the exact opposite of what happens with Islam. The muslim is encouraged to ask questions and to learn because it only streghnthens the faith of it's truth. We sit and have open question and answers sessions with our scholars all the time and they answer with wisdom and insight. Islam is not like other religions , it's a way of life. no contradictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3ader Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Acts was written long after Jesus was dead and Paul created Christianity, not Jesus. Peter did not walk amongst Jesus' disciples - Paul himself acknowledges this in his letters, Acts was written long after Jesus' death and even after Pauls' death and was meant to fill in the questions regarding Pauls' life and ministry. Paul himself acknowledges in his writings that he did not know Jesus, that he did not personally hear Jesus' message, that he recieved his "revelations" in a dream and that he did not consider himself a good speaker and had trouble talking amongst large crowds, which i also suffer from. Acts portrays a "Paul Superstar" to use common terms: a Paul who not only knew Jesus' message, but hung out with the followers of the actual person Jesus and who not only was a great speaker, but who converted masses of people. This portrayl is simply not historically accurate and there's a large amount of evidence to prove this. I'm not knocking Paul as a man of G-d and a well-intentioned teacher, but Acts does not portray Paul as Paul portrays himself in his letters. I will read and respond to the other comments later i gotta go to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3ader Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 tellurian - i think your interpretation of man's law vs. G-d's law is accurate. however, Judaism, not Christianity, is the root of that: the concept that G-d created a law for His people to follow rather than what other men say/do. Done, the majority of "hardcore"/evangelical Christians don't even read the first half of the Bible they claim to hold so dear and hold people to it as much or much more than Muslims do the Quran, from my interaction with Muslims. 93 i agree completely. Dawood i like that, Judaism is that way too: you're expected to think for yourself and question things. Makes life more interesting. Keep this thread going, lots of interesting thoughts in this 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 in general bible believing fundamentalists tend to take the whole bible at its fundamental level.same with anything on the 'fundamental level.' whether its basketball, islam, judiaism or christianity. fundamentalist christians believe the bible is the innerant word of God and believe that it is to be followed literally. the general consensus is that you follow the old testament unless the new testament negates something the old says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3ader Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 Most Christians look to the Old Testament for "confirmation" of their beliefs, not to study the teachings. I'm not knocking it, that's just how it is. The concept of the prophets foretelling Jesus, etc etc is the main use of the Old Testament for the majority of Christians. And when did I act like any of them were terrorists? is that supposed to be incinuating that Christians are better than Muslims because some Muslims are terrorists? The reality is, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, and we (Americans) have plenty of blood on our hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Oh Allah , purify our intentions, Guide us to the straight path, forgive us for our shortcomings and make us of those who are grateful, Ameen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3ader Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiNcHeNACO Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Most Christians look to the Old Testament for "confirmation" of their beliefs, not to study the teachings. I'm not knocking it, that's just how it is. The concept of the prophets foretelling Jesus, etc etc is the main use of the Old Testament for the majority of Christians. And when did I act like any of them were terrorists? is that supposed to be incinuating that Christians are better than Muslims because some Muslims are terrorists? The reality is, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, and we (Americans) have plenty of blood on our hands. Just like you ive been fighting this battle b/w quiting graff or not. Even tho ive still gone out and hit up a few hands and a few chill spots. I use to hit up more than i do now but since i converted to Christianity ive been having an inside battle about this. But im not going to get to that. Ive read a few post on what your views on Christianity is. While your always saying or atleast on what ive read that Christians don't even consider reading the old testament. Well bro all i have to say is that most of my guidance and what Gos has guide me thru has been thru the old testament. I read the new testament and try to learn as much of it for Evangelizing purposes. Since that's how i beleive God is going to use me for. But for my preachings and teachings like 85% has come thru the old testament. I dont beleive its just me since i met great preachers that beleive that preaching the old testament really brings that fire God has for us. Im not here to preach since i can see most of yall have your own beliefs and well are most likely way older than me. But also wanted to confirm to you that the bible also confirms that not all Jews are going to hell since it was Gods chosen people. But he is going to give them a chance to confess from there mouths that Jesus was indeed the messiah. Alot of them will be save when the tribulations come but alot of them will also be condemed. My bad if some of this doesnt make sence since i could explain it better in spanish and i rarelyy type in English. But i guess thats it. God Bless Yall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 the old testament really brings that fire God has for us. Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allâh is the Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary." But the Messiah (Jesus)]said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whoever worships other than Allah, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise for him, and the fire will be his abode. And for the polytheists and wrongdoers there are no helpers. (Al-Ma'idah 5:72) -the quran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiNcHeNACO Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Dawood i really dont understand where your coming from with that answer. Im not going to even lie i dont know or have the slightest clue on what your religion is based out of except from what they make it seem on tv. I know your religion is not based on what ive heard or seen since i am aware of the measures this media will take to brain wash people. But what i do know is that nothing is going to take my beliefs or my faith away since God has revealed to me that where im standing right now is pretty much where i need to be. Neither do i go get guidance from somebody else like lets say a pastor to help me out in each and one of my problems because i have someone bigger that guides me day thru day. I know you have your beliefs and just like me nobody is going to make you change your mind. But i would just like for you to tell me what that passage meant since i read it and read and still didnt get a clue out of it. It specially threw me off on what you quoted. Alright well im out. GBY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 basically what the quote was mentioning was that whoever takes lords other than the true lord God as a diety to be worshipped will enter the hellfire and paradise will be forbidden for him. I respect your humble response to my "from left field" quote. It was directed at you because i was tripping off your use of the phrase "really brings that fire God has for us" and it made me think of how God threatens the people who worship false Gods with the fire, even in the bible, 10 commandments he says "thou salt have no Gods before me". In Islam it is considered the greatest sin to worship false Gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoneTWS Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 basically what the quote was mentioning was that whoever takes lords other than the true lord God as a diety to be worshipped will enter the hellfire and paradise will be forbidden for him. I respect your humble response to my "from left field" quote. It was directed at you because i was tripping off your use of the phrase "really brings that fire God has for us" and it made me think of how God threatens the people who worship false Gods with the fire, even in the bible, 10 commandments he says "thou salt have no Gods before me". In Islam it is considered the greatest sin to worship false Gods. I thought hell was temporary in Islam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiNcHeNACO Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Well when i said fire i didnt meant the actual flames that burn but the holy spirit taking its place. But yea like i said i would of been able to explain a whole lot better in spanish but i guess im trying here. Im not going to get to the part where you talk about worshipping false gods because like i said just like i beleive that my God is the one that came to save us from our sins you think your god is the one. Taking my time learn about Jesus (Jehovas saves)Has done so much for me that im really thankful and i like i said i do beleive with all my heart that im where im suppose to be at. Theres no need for me go on and read other scriptures from other religions since i know where im standing and im good here. I know later on in life. probably sooner than later, im going to take a look on what religions iare based out of but right now i dont even know half of the part and i know im never going to accomplish all the knowledge to see what God wants for us or why he does things. I live by faith and try to learn each day how to be a better person not for me and not for anybody else but for the God i worship.GBY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaTurtle Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 youd think that a society advances we'd have less use for factless/reasonless nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoneTWS Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 youd think that a society advances we'd have less use for factless/reasonless nonsense. You would think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ase Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 institutionalized religion can suck my left nut.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 yeah, I'm glad my religion is not institutionalized Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Fuentes Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I thought hell was temporary in Islam? forever,unless God wills not to,so there could be a chance,thats not something to worry about if you believe. also there is like a purgatory kind of thing,between hell and heaver(God knows it). all this as what ive read from the holy book sent to muhammed. and islam is a system,not a personal religion,it is the best system trust me. but of course u might frown to this because u think living in a islamic state you must be muslim,totally cover your wife,dress arabic,not listen to music,that is not islam.there is freedom as long as you dont hurt or annoy anyone,not a backwards doctrine as must of the times wants to be made for the benefit of a few. as of now there is no "islamic" country,the closest thing to the law of islam as man made law is the constitution of the usa,still not islam. some dont want to accept it because of pride of their parents' religion which they follow,and some are just evil and want to keep fornicating,stealing,doing scams,rape and dont get the right punishments. peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pornbooth Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 youd think that a society advances we'd have less use for factless/reasonless nonsense. i think the appeal of religion has mostly to do with comfort. regardless of how "advanced" a society is, people will still be scared of death and resort to irrational beliefs to provide a safety net for their mind. this works both ways though. for example, a close friend of mine recently shot himself in the mouth, after the funeral i gathered with my friends to speak about our loss. most of my xtian friends were very saddened at the thought of their friend being in hell (while other chose to rationalize that he is actually in heaven). i was just happy i had the chance to know him and enjoy life with such a wonderful person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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