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Religion and Graffiti


r3ader

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okay, so i'm in the process of converting to Judaism. this has been a very eye-opening experience for me: i no longer believe in the concept of hell, i no longer feel that one solitary act determines my eternal placement, etc. etc.

 

but this has made me think: is graffiti a sin? i asked a religious guy i know about this and he said yes: that graffiti has to be cleaned up, and that since that person cleaning it spent money or time on the process of removing it, that you've therefore "stolen" from them, so it violates the edict "thou shalt not steal".

 

call it making excuses for one's own actions or whatever, but i don't agree with this. in my belief, removing graffiti is a choice for the person who does it: you could leave the graffiti and it wouldn't take any of your time or money to remove it. to me, graffiti is no more a sin than say, moving leaves instead of leaving them where they were. you may be changing something, but unless you're using etch and permanently altering it in some way, i don't see it as sinful.

 

whaddyathink?

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I'd say be honest with yourself. They do have the choice of leaving it on the building, but lets be realistic, most people feel that graffiti is an eyesore estheticly. Just because we dont think so doesnt make it so. And most people feel that leaving graffiti will simply attract more graffiti and further devalue the property...so in their minds its not really an option to leave it.

So thats somthing you have to be comfortable with. It doesnt bother me at all. But If thats a sin according to your religion you gotta make peace with that, dont just try and give some lame justification as to why its not.

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c'mon , dude, Graffiti is defacing peoples property without their permission. Whether they choose to take it off or not will depend on a lot of factors.

 

Also, I've never seen an anti leave moving unit. Don't try and justify it. Graff is a sin and I'm a religious dude that still paints. I don't crush the streets like I used to for various reasons. One, I have 4 kids and I'm a grown up, so walking the streets at 3 in the morning when I gotta get up and get the kids ready for school is not an option. Two, I choose to do graff in places that won't attract much negative attention these days. Theres certain spots like freight yard layups, under bridges, abandoned buildings that people don't care much about. Those aren't the fame spots but I was climbin' billboards when I was 18 , and now that i'm 31 that doesn't seem like the thing to do. I tell you what. If I didn't have any kids I think I'd still be hittin' the fame spots. graff is a sin, man. unless it's legal of course.

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well, some do, some don't. some people paint whatever, use etch, etc while some people only paint state property or abandoned shit, so it goes both ways. i guess i agree it's a sin but it's for sure one i can live with and have made peace with. i feel we all sin per se and that's one of few i occasionally commit.

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its part of the reason I stopped writting. But not really because i thought it was a sin, rather because if i was caught my religion would ultimately become a point of interest to some and look bad for the jewish community.

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its part of the reason I stopped writting. But not really because i thought it was a sin, rather because if i was caught my religion would ultimately become a point of interest to some and look bad for the jewish community.

 

 

you don't even paint productions and legals or chill spots etc? I like to go to abandoned buildings on main streets in broad daylight and just act like I have permission, works for me. I still think it's a sin, but not as much as someone who would actually care if i peiced on their building. The way I see it, if the spot is already tore up, what more can I do to ruin it? I used to be the one who would never really hit private property like houses and churches even when I was killin' it. I kind of shy'd away from hitting non corporate type businesses unless the spot was killed already, but govt. property was open game. Now my standards are higher. I don't really want to piss anyone off these days so I pretty much only paint in wasteland areas and freights (which I don't consider to be much of a problem) It's still a sin to me, but less than if I were to hit up "Joe's plumbing" fleet of trucks that he worked hard for now he has to pay to clean them. It's different with freights, the freight companies don't seem to care much.

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its part of the reason I stopped writting. But not really because i thought it was a sin, rather because if i was caught my religion would ultimately become a point of interest to some and look bad for the jewish community.

 

so MAR can we assume that you live in a highly Jewish populated area? because I think i saw you saw before you were from NYC. Being that i'm from Dallas and the religious community here is scattered to say the least, the moral obligation is all I've got. Although i understand your situation and highly respect your will power.

 

you don't even paint productions and legals or chill spots etc? I like to go to abandoned buildings on main streets in broad daylight and just act like I have permission, works for me. I still think it's a sin, but not as much as someone who would actually care if i peiced on their building. The way I see it, if the spot is already tore up, what more can I do to ruin it? I used to be the one who would never really hit private property like houses and churches even when I was killin' it. I kind of shy'd away from hitting non corporate type businesses unless the spot was killed already, but govt. property was open game. Now my standards are higher. I don't really want to piss anyone off these days so I pretty much only paint in wasteland areas and freights (which I don't consider to be much of a problem) It's still a sin to me, but less than if I were to hit up "Joe's plumbing" fleet of trucks that he worked hard for now he has to pay to clean them. It's different with freights, the freight companies don't seem to care much.

 

i'm with you pretty much 100%.

 

Haven't you heard.... be saved.

 

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."" - John 14:6

 

The Gospel of John, and Acts for that matter, the two Christian gospels heaviest in not only anti-Semitism but also bearing a heavily developed "Christology" (the concept of Jesus' diety which was not present in his original followers/peers), were written at least 50-100 years after his death. In other words, slim to none chance that he ever said something like that... he lived and died as a Jew and that's not a very kosher thing to say.

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you don't even paint productions and legals or chill spots etc?

 

I pretty much only bombed and for not that long, maybe a year or so, I wasnt so great. When I quit I had a mean handstyle (imho), a good bomb, but as far as prods. not so much nore did i care to get down with other writers, which leads me to my other point.

 

The other part of leaving was when i met other writters I realised we had different goals and most of them were pretty big losers. Probably a function of my location, which btw, is not nyc. Part of me yerns to go out and try to get up again since most of my work has been buffed which is both good and bad. I dont know honestly, I could see myself going nuts if I lived in NYC and starting again, but only because I loath that city. It also helps that Im so busy, I dont even have much time to go out even if i wanted too. For sure if I didnt give it up already I would, when I get married. I cant let my addictions affect another person. Frankly if your holding down a serious job and your still bombing, thats crazy (If your casually writting or are the owner of your company I could understand). But whatever, Im just rambling.

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^its wierd to be in and out of the game like that (ill explain later)...

 

but yea Graff is a sin; your not following the law first and foremost as well as violating someones private property....

 

as for writers that have mad ups (at least in my experience) they have nothing else goin for them. I love graff and have met many unique people and experiences with it; but some dudes just have their rep and paint- no family, girl, job/future prospects etc....depending on what u consider sucessful- these guys are either super cool, or failures....

 

for me, religion holds a place of hope and working towards something bigger....its nice to know the big guy is lookin out for me at times.......but im slowly cutting back- im not trying to have a fucked up record and simultaneously fuck up my chances at a good job and second shot at being a productive person- not to say that writers arent; but graff truly is time and resource consuming hobby................its hard for me now to justify all the tags and throws- but i knew it was wrong from day 1, accepted the consequences and moved on.

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let's not get all religious fanatical and play church about this. let's be realistic on the logical and common sense tip.

 

to me, it's only a sin if it's become such a bad ass habit that you can't do anything else but write, to the point where you're like a junky and you can't even handle any of your personal business and it starts to get in the way, even to the point it starts hurting family, friends, and other folks.

 

to me, like everything else it should be done in moderation. yes "bombing" can be done in moderation. to be a "king" in a sense you have to be in control and know wtf you're doing. you can't be out scribbling like some dumb ass toddler on everything. I also think you always have to have morals no matter how political you want to get about it, and keep that respect for common folk's property.

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Haven't you heard.... be saved.

 

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."" - John 14:6

 

The problem I have with that type of thinking is that when the words of Christ were written down his followers were just as certain that the world flat as they were about Christ's divintiy.

 

 

Go out and paint..... G-D only cares about professional sports in the United States.

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dont hit...

 

people's business,houses,vans

 

places that like a kid's park where will not fit as art but vandalism

 

dont steal paint,thats a big one

 

dont cross people out,because it can lead to a fight,and God does not want u to fight for stupid reasons.

 

....

 

now government stuff,go ahead,make them waste their budget,buffing a tag could mean a bullet less and u might have saved a live in a distant place from yours.

there is tons of places to paint without making a mistake in the eyes of God.

 

i hope religion helps you!

 

peace

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I like how it takes a complete atheist like me to point out that one of the most common points of all religions is against property and materialism in general. Under that spectrum graffiti could be considered completely religious as an act, one part is vandalism and the other is identity

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not all christians are 'anti semetic.'

 

talk to a dispensationalist.

 

i understand not all Christians are anti-semitic, i would never say that. however, dispensationalists generally agree with an "end of days" scenario and generally agree that Jews will not be "taken up to Heaven" because they don't "accept Christ as their L-rd and savior". i don't agree with that ideology, and would personally consider it just a little anti-semitic.

 

dont hit...

 

people's business,houses,vans

 

places that like a kid's park where will not fit as art but vandalism

 

dont steal paint,thats a big one

 

dont cross people out,because it can lead to a fight,and God does not want u to fight for stupid reasons.

 

....

 

now government stuff,go ahead,make them waste their budget,buffing a tag could mean a bullet less and u might have saved a live in a distant place from yours.

there is tons of places to paint without making a mistake in the eyes of God.

 

i hope religion helps you!

 

peace

 

i agree with everything you're saying.

mazeltov, juan!

 

so MAR, where do you live? so we can all come stalk you. clearly i'm jesting. ;)

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I was baptised, i went to church every second my family could, i did every church activity and i went to a protestant school from pre-k till 8th grade, ive been surrounded by bible beating "dont leave mass to shit cause its evil" carpet bagging protestant assholes ive come to terms with "God" myself in my own way. SOme people think he doesnt exist and some dont piss without asking permission, christianity (and basically every other religion) teaches or moral values. The bible may give you the BK menu but whe like to ask our god for no pickles from time to time alter what hes given us and look past something thats right under our noses. Religion teaches (no matter which one) to be good, all around. TO just be a good person, now if everyone lived by that and said fuck organized religion we'ed be better off. So i think yes illegal graffiti is a sin. But that right there doesnt stop me cause im basically going on my view of God.

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do you have to constantly reinforce the fact that you're converting to judaism and have a crush on mar caus hes already jewish r3ader?

 

yes. wait til i start ranting about my animals and other boring aspects of my life story. soon you'll know them all.

 

0228oddcouple.jpg

 

The bible may give you the BK menu but whe like to ask our god for no pickles from time to time alter what hes given us and look past something thats right under our noses. Religion teaches (no matter which one) to be good, all around. TO just be a good person, now if everyone lived by that and said fuck organized religion we'ed be better off. So i think yes illegal graffiti is a sin. But that right there doesnt stop me cause im basically going on my view of God.

 

now that's good stuff.

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^its wierd to be in and out of the game like that (ill explain later)...

 

but yea Graff is a sin; your not following the law first and foremost as well as violating someones private property....

 

as for writers that have mad ups (at least in my experience) they have nothing else goin for them. I love graff and have met many unique people and experiences with it; but some dudes just have their rep and paint- no family, girl, job/future prospects etc....depending on what u consider sucessful- these guys are either super cool, or failures....

 

for me, religion holds a place of hope and working towards something bigger....its nice to know the big guy is lookin out for me at times.......but im slowly cutting back- im not trying to have a fucked up record and simultaneously fuck up my chances at a good job and second shot at being a productive person- not to say that writers arent; but graff truly is time and resource consuming hobby................its hard for me now to justify all the tags and throws- but i knew it was wrong from day 1, accepted the consequences and moved on.

 

I'm with you on that. I used to Bomb the City HARD,I was a drunk and had a routine, During the day I would hustle, steal some paint for the night then I would get juiced up until around midnight with then jump on my little honda spree with like 10 cans and proceed to go all city. i was intent on going out with around 8-10 cans a night and not coming back until they were gone.

Back then I had no kids, no wife, no real , steady girl, no job, I was living in an abondoned building with a few other dudes just bringing random females around to kick it with. I wasn't going to school, I wasn't doing anything productive with my life and pretty much graff and beefing with other graff crews was pretty much my life. I ended up getting caught and eventually locked up over graffiti. Needless to say religion had no place in my life back then.

I live a different life now but graff is still a huge part of who i am. Being a muslim, though, It always bugs people out when I'm rockin' a wall somewhere and my wife rolls up with the kids dressed in full islamic hijab and the kids hop out the whip like "oooh Abby that peice is fat!"

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when it comes down to it.... the concept of ' goods for service ' is compleatly man made. It does not exist in nature... so if you are fucking w/ some ones capital, you are only messing w/ the human, not the devine..... go for yours.

 

that gotta be one of the stupidest remarks I've heard in a while.

So, to you people aren't part of nature? The only reason (for example) beavers don't build houses for squirrels for 1000 nuts is because God didn't give them them intellect like us. We have the power of intellect and reason whereas animals only have instinct. If we were to use your line of reasoning we could say, "refraining from killing people, scavenging their bodies and eating every peice of meat off their bones is man made. It does not exist in nature.......go for yours.

 

I know deep down you don't really beleive that tabloid, stop letting that music mess with our head.

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I'm with you on that. I used to Bomb the City HARD,I was a drunk and had a routine, During the day I would hustle, steal some paint for the night then I would get juiced up until around midnight with then jump on my little honda spree with like 10 cans and proceed to go all city. i was intent on going out with around 8-10 cans a night and not coming back until they were gone.

Back then I had no kids, no wife, no real , steady girl, no job, I was living in an abondoned building with a few other dudes just bringing random females around to kick it with. I wasn't going to school, I wasn't doing anything productive with my life and pretty much graff and beefing with other graff crews was pretty much my life. I ended up getting caught and eventually locked up over graffiti. Needless to say religion had no place in my life back then.

I live a different life now but graff is still a huge part of who i am. Being a muslim, though, It always bugs people out when I'm rockin' a wall somewhere and my wife rolls up with the kids dressed in full islamic hijab and the kids hop out the whip like "oooh Abby that peice is fat!"

 

wow, dude, you've lived an interesting life. so how old were you when you converted (or were you born a Muslim)? but the best is that you tell wifey where you're going. i haven't gone out in a while, but if i do i just say "i'm going out" and she knows what's up.

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