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soupBDC

Founding fathers this, American history that...

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I wonder just how many decisions are made based on history, in general. We look back at the American revolutionary war, American civil war, even September 11, and every other day come up with new ways to look at these events. I wonder if anyone just accepts that there's no truth to this history, and that it's all from our imagination. Jesus, I just wish people would go forward and be responsible and just say "I'm acting on my own fantasy."

 

You know there's way too many examples of this. A Scottish politican will stand up in front of an american hearing about where he thinks America is going, and have to justify his standing with some comment about history like "You should all take me as a credible authority on America, because i'm scottish, and many of the founding fathers were too." How the fuck does that work, honestly?

 

I think History class is a farce. I love history, I think it should still be in school, but I think it should be called story time, and it should simply discuss morals and ethics, not get into how to justify your opinion because so and so did this and that back in the day.

 

By the way I'm an American and so were the founding fathers, so you should agree with what I have to say.

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what i think, soup, is this:

 

our founding fathers went through hell to give us these freedoms (that we're slowly losing).

their stories are to be known because, after all, if you don't know about your history, you're doomed to repeat it. that is where america sits right now. too concerned with paris hiltons crab infested vagina to think about how we got here, all the people that died for us to live and speak as free humans, etc.

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if you don't know about your history, you're doomed to repeat it.

 

This is the selling point of history, to know where you've been. Truth is, however, that we KNOW our history, and REPEAT it anyway, so the selling point is a joke. There is no difference between the people alive today and those alive in generations before us. There was pop culture back in the colonial days, and there's pop culture now. Just look at paul revere, that dude went some thirteen miles but became a story we all know today as riding hell of far. The shit's not true at all, but we think it is because the dude who wrote the legend of sleepy hollow, also wrote the legend of paul revere.

 

Stupidity repeats, we love stupidity, in fact I'd say we've gone from not knowing what stupidity was, to definining what stupidity is with the creation of the IQ test, to now embracing stupidity since is cheap entertainment, and far more cool to be stupid than it is to be smart.

 

History is a farce, everything that is going on now has been going on since the dawn of civilization or longer. People just don't think it's repeating because they pick up a history book and choose to do shit that's not in them, as if because it's not being written down (or the reader hasn't read that page) then it hasn't already happened.

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"if you don't know about your history, you're doomed to repeat it."

 

exactly.

history is one heck of a teacher. everyone should recognize what this country has been through. good and bad.

 

for instance, everyone should know the evils of dictators like hitler and stalin. and they should know how they came to power. and people should know this stuff, so it doesnt happen again.

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paul revere, even though he got all the credit for that famous ride, did something to change the face of american history. he was taking part in the rebellion against tyranny.

 

he serves not only as a great person in our history, but as a sort of role model for future generations.

 

of course there was popular culture all throughout history. there were also dictators, presidents, kings, rebellions, wars, famine, despair, etc. etc.

 

it's not an illusion.

 

if you want to get all philosophical, i'm down. reality is based on individual perception.

we can't change any of that by simply realizing it. just take part in the whole universal play by being the best human you can be. learn from your forefathers. take notice of their actions. honour them.

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Why stop there? Hostory is a lot older than Paul Revere and Christopher Columbus.

America is very young and civilization has been alive and kicking since way before this county has ever been thought of. If people in this country would take lessons from other earlier balanced generations , Possibly Americans wouldn't be in such a downward spiral.

 

Possibly, At least the ones who would dare to humble themselves enough.

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im all about history. i am constantly reading and trying to find new books. while early american history, political history of the US is my main interest, i've also got a little thing going for the crusades. i dont know what is, it just interests me.

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speaking of the crusades, it's pretty ironic that the Pope quotes somebody accusing Muhammad of spreading Islam by the sword in light of the crusades.

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^^ I was thinking about that when I heard that he had said Islam was a violent religion, as if the Catholic church hasn't either been directly responsible for violence as well as not stopping it or speaking out against it when they could. Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, etc

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He didn't say Islam was a violent religion. Don't fall into the same trap people are shitting their pants about and read the context in which he mentioned the quote (which was from a conversation about both Christianity and Islam). A bit stupid to pick a quote about Muhammad given the current climate, but the point is valid.

 

I was reminded of all this recently, when I read... of part of the dialogue carried on - perhaps in 1391 in the winter barracks near Ankara - by the erudite Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologus and an educated Persian on the subject of Christianity and Islam, and the truth of both.

 

In the seventh conversation...the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the "Book" and the "infidels", he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

 

The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God," he says, "is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats."

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paul revere, even though he got all the credit for that famous ride, did something to change the face of american history. he was taking part in the rebellion against tyranny.

 

Right. So you agree with me, it's not history. It's IMAGINARY. That's my point, the "historical value" of anything is shit. Bush can go on all the cruisades he wants, they've got shit to do with history. He can call things an "axis of evil" when the historical value of the saying is a connotative meaning, not factually denotative.

 

I think, since people started talking about religion in this shit, trying to understand the meaning of the Koran is fucking stupid. The historical value of the Koran is where all the militant clerics get their power from, just like the examples I used with Bush. It's imagination, not history, that these people use and to call it "HISTORY" is complete garbage.

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History is a farce, everything that is going on now has been going on since the dawn of civilization or longer.

 

I swear, if I hear about one more caveman on the internet....

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He didn't say Islam was a violent religion. Don't fall into the same trap people are shitting their pants about and read the context in which he mentioned the quote (which was from a conversation about both Christianity and Islam). A bit stupid to pick a quote about Muhammad given the current climate, but the point is valid.

 

 

Yes, A bit stupid indeed.

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I saw this clip on the Colbert Report where Muslims where protesting his remarks by burning an effigy of the Pope and burning an American flag. I love how they always throw in an American flag even if it's something entirely unrelated to America. The Pope is German and he lives in Italy.

 

I also read this in the Boston Globe, today:

 

"``The pope should fall on his knees before a senior Muslim cleric and try to understand Islam," said Ahmad Khatami, an influential cleric in the Iranian holy city of Qom, according to television and wire service reports."

 

Really, "fall to his knees"? That's such an absurd statement coming from a holy man, but that's religion. And this is something, too:

 

"Sporadic violence and protests against the pope continued in Islamic lands, with a Catholic nun shot dead in Somalia, churches set ablaze in the Palestinian West Bank, and hard-line Muslim clerics denouncing Benedict as an enemy of Islam."

 

Shooting a nun? Setting churches on fire? Way to prove that quotation wrong. That's some really non-violent practicing right there.

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