ODS-1 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Dude what the fuck are you talking about? You need to stay off the crack pipe for a while? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Birch Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 oh you're right its tonight.. word!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Birch Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 and btw I smoke meth and just came offa 63 hour weekend bender... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_dowmagik Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 kill his ass. some dumb black bitch was in my work the other night telling me his life should be spared "because he found jesus". hahah. bitch, i could care less who his imaginary friends are, the facts are he founded an abhorrent gang, and killed people - off with his head. i hope they shoot him up with a red syringe. guess who else was nominated for a nobel peace prize? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Droid Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 this is bullshit. the death penalty is bullshit. whats your reason that you think the death penalty is a good idea? a deterrant? NO, statistically its been proven that there are no affects whatsoever as a deterrent. cheaper? NO, its actually more expensive. eye for an eye, MAYBE, but i say NO, because you never know FOR SURE that the person commited it. there have been over 100 documented cases in modern america of people who were innocent, that were sent to death. I know my shit, and have done extensive study in this area of criminology, if you want sources for my FACTS above, PM me and if i have time will give them to you. sorry TOOKIE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 CLEMENCY DENIED Governor denies clemency for ex-gang leader Appeals court refuses to block Williams' execution SACRAMENTO, California (CNN) -- California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has denied clemency for convicted killer Stanley Tookie Williams, who co-founded the Crips street gang. Schwarzenegger announced the decision Monday shortly after a federal appeals court refused to block Williams' scheduled Tuesday execution. The court made its decision about nine hours before Williams is to receive a lethal injection. Williams met with his attorneys and family members Monday at San Quentin State Prison, and he "still believes there will be some intervention in this process," prison spokesman Vernell Crittendon said. .............. Williams was convicted of killing a 26-year-old Los Angeles convenience store clerk in February 1979, shooting him twice in the back with a 12-gauge shotgun while the victim was face down on the floor. Less than two weeks later, jurors concluded, he shot and killed an immigrant Chinese couple and their 41-year-old daughter while stealing less than $100 cash from their motel. Both cases were handled in a single trial, and Williams was sentenced to death in 1981. http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/12/will...tion/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ctrl+alt+del Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Originally posted by Soup@Nov 20 2005, 09:53 AM I will say it's a little funny that people think since he wrote a few nobel prize children's stories that he's redeemed himself. If that's all it takes for folks to get off the death penalty I'd say Tookie's got two options: Quoted post you dumb motherfucker. you think that a Nobel Peace Prize is just given out willy nilly without any meaning? Those are not just childrends books. They are aimed at 4th graders with the intent to deter them from a violent lifestyle. Tookie realized that you gotta affect kids at a young age before the gangs can get to them. I dont CARE about if he found jesus. Tookie is in the unique position to influence kids that police, adults, the president, can not influence. The main point is this; This man is someone who is doing good. What do you achieve by ending positive affects? Nothing. You accomplish nothing. Capital Punishment. This stems from the ARCHAIC idea of eye for an eye. You want justice? Give the victims family a gun and let them gun him down. Is this absurd? Yes it IS fucking absurd. What else is absurd? The cold thoughtless mechanical killing of a man. And thats what lethal injection is. Everything is just a process, everything is faccilated so that there is not thought. We've gone from hanging people while onlookers yelled and screamed at the hung man in public, to a private, painless, quiet process. What retribution do you get from this? All I see is American Society trying to make killing as least offensible as possible. AND, it doesnt happen until year later, aftter the crime.. So the detterent effect is null. Retribution effect, null. Incapacitation is just as well served if he get LWOP. This man is rehabilitated, he is doing good for the community. ps. the guy who was with tookie in the murders was arrested later for holding up a (gas station i believe) and murdering the people in it. p.p.s i find that you fuckers against this have NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE TOPIC. in other words, you will never realize what i see now, that you are pieces of shit, and that given your very little level of education, it doesnt really matter what you say or think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 SAN QUENTIN, Calif. (CNN) -- California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has denied clemency for convicted killer Stanley Tookie Williams, leaving the co-founder of the Crips street gang facing death by lethal injection early Tuesday. "The possible irregularities in Williams' trial have been thoroughly and carefully reviewed by the courts, and there is no reason to disturb the judicial decisions that uphold the jury's decisions that he is guilty of these four murders and should pay with his life," Schwarzenegger said in a five-page statement explaining his decision. In addition, a three-judge panel of the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals refused to stay Williams' execution Monday, rejecting an affidavit from Williams' lawyers that suggested the onetime gang leader was framed for the killings of four people during two 1979 robberies. There was no immediate reaction from his lawyers to the two decisions, which were released just minutes apart Monday afternoon. Unless the full 9th Circuit or the U.S. Supreme Court intervenes, Williams is scheduled to be put to death at 12:01 a.m. Tuesday (3:01 a.m. ET) at San Quentin State Prison, near San Francisco. (Posted 4:31 p.m.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakatau Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I think ctrl+alt is a crip, he's way too invested in this. And he didn't get a Nobel prize, he was nominated. Fucking everyone and their dog has been nominated for a Nobel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 YES and the person who nominated tookie for a peace prize said he was only doing it to draw attention to the problems of the death penalty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Who doesn't have a Nobel nomination? By Eugene Volokh, a professor of law at UCLA Law School: Los Angeles Times Published December 8, 2005 Many advocates of clemency for Stanley "Tookie" Williams note that he has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize and the Nobel Prize in literature for his anti-gang work, which includes writing children's books. How could a convicted murderer and co-founder of the Crips, Los Angeles' infamous street gang, be nominated for such prizes? According to Nobel Prize nominating rules, any "professor of social sciences, history, philosophy, law and theology" and any judge or national legislator in any country, among others, can nominate anyone for a Nobel Peace Prize. Past nominees have included Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Benito Mussolini and Fidel Castro. Any "professor of literature [or] of linguistics," among others, can nominate anyone for a Nobel Prize in literature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_dowmagik Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 as a convenience store clerk, ol terminator just made my day. do not fuck with my brethren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Birch Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Originally posted by ctrl+alt+del+Dec 12 2005, 09:36 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ctrl+alt+del - Dec 12 2005, 09:36 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Soup@Nov 20 2005, 09:53 AM I will say it's a little funny that people think since he wrote a few nobel prize children's stories that he's redeemed himself. If that's all it takes for folks to get off the death penalty I'd say Tookie's got two options: Quoted post you dumb motherfucker. you think that a Nobel Peace Prize is just given out willy nilly without any meaning? Those are not just childrends books. They are aimed at 4th graders with the intent to deter them from a violent lifestyle. Tookie realized that you gotta affect kids at a young age before the gangs can get to them. I dont CARE about if he found jesus. Tookie is in the unique position to influence kids that police, adults, the president, can not influence. The main point is this; This man is someone who is doing good. What do you achieve by ending positive affects? Nothing. You accomplish nothing. Capital Punishment. This stems from the ARCHAIC idea of eye for an eye. You want justice? Give the victims family a gun and let them gun him down. Is this absurd? Yes it IS fucking absurd. What else is absurd? The cold thoughtless mechanical killing of a man. And thats what lethal injection is. Everything is just a process, everything is faccilated so that there is not thought. We've gone from hanging people while onlookers yelled and screamed at the hung man in public, to a private, painless, quiet process. What retribution do you get from this? All I see is American Society trying to make killing as least offensible as possible. AND, it doesnt happen until year later, aftter the crime.. So the detterent effect is null. Retribution effect, null. Incapacitation is just as well served if he get LWOP. This man is rehabilitated, he is doing good for the community. ps. the guy who was with tookie in the murders was arrested later for holding up a (gas station i believe) and murdering the people in it. p.p.s i find that you fuckers against this have NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE TOPIC. in other words, you will never realize what i see now, that you are pieces of shit, and that given your very little level of education, it doesnt really matter what you say or think. Quoted post [/b] hey cuz I don't know if you have read through this thread the last few weeks...I think most of us agree, including myself, that the death penalty is a bad idea etc etc, but if the death penalty was ever deserving for somebody, tookie definately is... He started a violent drug gang, he was racist, he commited racial murders, he ordered murders, he was extremely violent. He assaluted prison guards and fellow prisoners and he never renounced his gang membership or apologized for the murders he's convicted of and the ones he never got popped for... alot of people do stupid shit and ge tlife in prison and/or the death penalty. He wasn't one. He was a total scumbag his whole life and got sent to jail for life at 26... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ctrl+alt+del Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 you are actually right, i didnt really read this thread. but i have my final in Crime, Politics, And Justice tomorrow and guess what case weve talked about in class a few weeks ago. i guess its just my opinion. i am against capital punishment. but. if you support giving the death penalty for anyone, then you support the death penalty. you cant say 'oh we dont like the death penalty, bad idea. but this one guy, lets give it to him' ref: he started a gang, racist, murderer etc. by the facts. this is a man who was sentenced to death for the murder of 4 people. NOT for starting a gang. His trial was shoddy. And if you are familiar with the US justice system, you know this without me telling you. Do you really think he got a fair trial? The prosecutors case was built around the testimony of two other gang members who testified against him to save their own necks. They signed a deal, he didnt. Second part of the case, bullet casings. There is strong evidence to show that they dont even match the gun. My point being, there is strong enough doubt that he may be innocent. Also He got sent to jail at 26. I personally doubt that he ever had a chance at a legitimate life. If i were to accept that he is guilty of everything, there are still aggregate factors that make me believe he should not be given life. In Jail, a place with structure and rules, he has done very well. What this implies is that on the streets, lacking structure, he was easily led into a violent lifestyle. Damn, my paper tomorrow better have better structure than this post. What im saying, is that there are aggregate factors that you have to look into when deciding to give someone the death penalty. Tookies last years have been much different than his first ones. How does this NOT show rehabilitation? Why not let a man continue to live a structured life if he is working to improve other peoples lives NOW? But good call on the Nobel Peace Prize, you did get me there. However, how many of you have been nominated? Thats kind of a shitty point. But still, if everyone can have one, why dont you? Why? any "professor of social sciences, history, philosophy, law and theology" and any judge or national legislator in any country, among others, can nominate anyone for a Nobel Peace Prize as unimportant as it seems, i would argue that professors, judges, legislators etc. do hold a certain position that gives them respect, and thus, if they do nominate someone, they deserve some acknowledgement. if whoever nominated him for this did it strictly to bring attention to the death penalty, then why Tookie and not someone who the public didnt perceive as not quite deserving of the death penalty? Its funny that you argue this as Tookie, if anyone, should get death. Because from discussions in my lecture, most people felt Tookie should be one of the least likely to get death. not that you NEED to convince me of anything, but i feel like the point that you need to argue to make me change my mind, would be for you to explain why anyone who is currently doing good, trying to benefit society, reduce gangs, reduce violence should be put to death. wouldnt it almost make MORE sense that he lives, and actually repay his debt to society? dont you want him to be held responsible for starting gangs? it seems to make sense to me at least, that by counseling kids at risk to join a gang about why they SHOULDNT join a gang, is a good way for him to repay his debt to society. capital punishment is unsatisfactory because no one is going to benefit from it. his victims families may be able to go back to some semblance of their normal life, i wish them the best of luck and all, but it seems more fruitful for a killer to benefit society to keep kids out of gangs (possibly reducing more murders/violence) than it does to kill him and get nothing out of it. once again, this may have all been said, i didnt read the thread, probably should have, but i still do not understand how you can support the death penalty. it is NOT a detterent. retribution can be served in other means. incapacitation can be served in other means. rehabilitation can not be met by killing someone. these are the 4 reasons why we have a justice system. dunno. tell me what you guys are thinking. i apologize for calling anyone pieces of shit. this is one of those things i get fired up about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Birch Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I get the sense neither you nor any of your close friends ever been to jail...jail doesn't reform anybody, it only makes you bitter and a schemer...but hey if you do the crime, you do the time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isor357 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 They damned if they do and damned if they dont. Dont kill tookie and every bleeding heart liberal mobilizes against the death penalty. Kill tookie and the ghetto might burn down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ctrl+alt+del Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by John Birch@Dec 12 2005, 04:39 PM I get the sense neither you nor any of your close friends ever been to jail...jail doesn't reform anybody, it only makes you bitter and a schemer...but hey if you do the crime, you do the time... Quoted post no i havnt... but i know. i am a student of our justice system, not a captive of it. its a process called socialization. its just one more way that the US justice system continues to punish its inmates. excessively so. because after you are let out, if you are let out, what chance do you have to make it in a legitimate business world, when you can only get a minimum wage job? but. what does this matter? what does it matter? hes not going anywhere. all he can do is good, he cant do any bad. if he is just putting on an act, hes got a lot of people fooled... and hes taking it pretty damn far. but still, what does it matter? he wouldnt be let out, he would still be in prison. alive, and if doing anything, he would be doing good. Prison is still punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ctrl+alt+del Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by isor357@Dec 12 2005, 05:04 PM They damned if they do and damned if they dont. Dont kill tookie and every bleeding heart liberal mobilizes against the death penalty. Kill tookie and the ghetto might burn down. Quoted post i think you mean, "dont kill tookie and every racist, conservative, and uninformed citizen mobilizes arm in arm for the death penalty..." i really wish some of you could sit in on some capital punishment trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakatau Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by ctrl+alt+del@Dec 12 2005, 06:05 PM explain why anyone who is currently doing good, trying to benefit society, reduce gangs, reduce violence should be put to death. Quoted post I think that this was the general consensus of the thread before Kabar showed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isor357 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 yeah... that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ctrl+alt+del Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by John Birch@Dec 12 2005, 04:39 PM hey if you do the crime, you do the time... Quoted post ive never disagreed with this. although i am against mandatory minimums, i am also against excessive discretion in sentencing. oh, and this is kabar? makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 you cant be the founder of the crips and be a leader of such a gang without doing crimes when added up amount to alot more than a lifetime in prison, i DONT condemn tookie being executed but on the same note i dont advocate him being released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isor357 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 alright. If you were facing an injection. You still have years. Would you live or take it immediatly? The waiting is probably worse than the punishment. If i was facing mandatory life i would opt for the needle. There comes a point when you can no longer make a contribution. You stuck in prison you cant help your seed you cant help your woman. You cant help yourself. Maybe spiritually... but trapped in a fucking shoebox is no place to find god. If there is a god and you do find him he probably wont be too pleased with you anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Birch Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by ctrl+alt+del+Dec 13 2005, 01:52 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ctrl+alt+del - Dec 13 2005, 01:52 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-John Birch@Dec 12 2005, 04:39 PM hey if you do the crime, you do the time... Quoted post ive never disagreed with this. although i am against mandatory minimums, i am also against excessive discretion in sentencing. oh, and this is kabar? makes sense. Quoted post [/b] am I kabar? lol... actually I'm pretty much a liberal person from Boston. Not to give away too much of my background, but I majored in Sociology and CJ and studied under one of the nation's most renowned criminologists, who I won't name and have been an advocate for prisoners rights and prisoner voting etc etc since high school. Being a graffer I've done my fair share of jail visits and talked to many people doing mad time, coming off bids or muthafuckers who couldn't get bail. I've also had alot of buddies do real bids in state prison, 5-7 years and shit... Whats funny is, is that only college educated liberals take such a strong stance against the death penalty and are into coddling hardened criminals. Most people I know who've been to jail tell me that 99% of the people there deserve to be. Maybe Mass. jails and prisons are different or something, we are some crzay fucks up here... As I said before I'm against the death penalty and shit, but my gripe is why "tookie" of all people is the cause celebre (sic) of liberals and hollywood this week? To be perfectly honest Tookie is the last guy I would put my advocacy towards. Some white lowlife in NC I think got it last week, I didn't really hear any crying from the liberals about that one, although he was the 1000th... I'll agree alot of people, esp black folk, are on death row in this country and don't deserve to be, but generally speaking, none of them are in Cali prisons...and Tookie isn't deserving either... guys, muthafucker was a gang LEADERand yet was robbing gas stations for $120 to support his sherm habit...I smoked mad pcp back in high school, I never did no shit like that except maybe sleep late and miss homeroom period... and most guys named Tookie in jail is bad news... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoZe42 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 what does everyone think about the guy that was on the news... saying he is one of real person(s) who started the crip gang and knew tookie when he was a skinny punk kid in the hood, plus that he should die.. ? he also said he helped tookie with his weightlifting career... introducing him to Arnold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakatau Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by SoZe42@Dec 12 2005, 10:54 PM what does everyone think about the guy that was on the news... saying he is one of real person who started the crip gang and knew tookie when he was a skinny punk kid in the hood plus that he should die.. ? he also said he helped tookie with his weightlift career... introducing he to Arnold. Quoted post Just some fool catchin coat tails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ctrl+alt+del Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by John Birch@Dec 12 2005, 08:29 PM Whats funny is, is that only college educated liberals take such a strong stance against the death penalty and are into coddling hardened criminals. Most people I know who've been to jail tell me that 99% of the people there deserve to be. Maybe Mass. jails and prisons are different or something, we are some crzay fucks up here... Quoted post first, to someone above, not birch, i dont think ANYONE is saying that williams should be released. just that he should get life locked up, not death. now, not really in regards to williams case; heres what it seems to be coming down to. i feel that people behind bars are part of society, and they need to be re-integrated and re-socialized so that they can contribute to society. get a job, support their family, etc. you seem to be of the opinion that these people can not benefit society and dont belong in it. i dont understand this. it almost seems illogical because you said earlier that "jail doesn't reform anybody, it only makes you bitter and a schemer..." which shows that you are aware of the re-socializiation process in which inmates are forced to survive in prison by learning new ways to behave. correct me if im wrong, but this implies that you dont believe that people are inherently/biologically evil, as they are capable of learning new behavior. since youve gone through CJ, im talking about rational actors theory (durkheim, maybe? cant remember). well, if they can be taught one way, they can be taught another way. rehabilitation. ...? this is almost getting off track now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Birch Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 bro think for yourself, not what some german guy wrote 80 years ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Birch Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 and I don't want this discussion to turn to the bigger idea of free will vs. determinism... IMO: People don't reform from "bad" behaviour, because theres no such thing as "bad." That's just a value judgment determined by the mores and culture of a society or group... Basically reforming from crime means 'choosing not to do actions considered taboo by a group or society' or even more simply 'choosing not to do certain actions'. I can choose to stop doing certain actions, whether driving a car, spitting on the sidewalk, tagging, watching porn, brushing my teeth etc etc. Does that mean I'm reformed? And won't choose to do it again? Does it really matter? A soldier stops murdering when he gets home from the battlefield. Is he not still guilty of murder? Our society generally agrees that Tookie broke the social contract. Many of us disagree with the method used to make an example of this individual, but that does not negate the actions he has done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillysiphilis Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 RIP 'TOOKIE' WILLIAMS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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