discussion on the nature of the creator of the heavens and earth

[vanfullofretards]

George Carlin on Christianity

[Dawood]

so, everybody wants to talk about everything except God...how selfish you all are...

[iloveboxcars]

so, everybody wants to talk about everything except God...how selfish you all are...

 

 

discussions, especially discussions of such length often take little detours, do not worry about it and just allow it to take its course, it will eventually get back on track. dont try to police this thread please.

[Dawood]

did you really feel the need to make that comment?

[iloveboxcars]

did you really feel the need to make the comment that i quoted?

[Dawood]

Boxcars, do you remember Booger from revenge of the nerds?

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

so, everybody wants to talk about everything except God...how selfish you all are...

 

and all you talk about is you're own faith, and act as if it is superior to others. so what does that say.

[iloveboxcars]

Boxcars, do you remember Booger from revenge of the nerds?

 

the dirty punk rock dude? what about him?

[Dawood]

and all you talk about is you're own faith, and act as if it is superior to others. so what does that say.

 

Ok, so am I supposed to go talk about how jesus is God or that we should worship Cows?

 

Islam is a superior religion , do your history. The only reason muslims are not ruling the earth right now is because they are too busy chasing after materialism with the rest of the world and turning away from their religion. When muslims actually practice the faith, Allah raises them and makes them just rulers. When they don't he punishes them and puts oppressive rulers over them. It's all through history over and over. So, in response to your statement, Islam IS the most superior way of life for all of mankind, that takes people away from worshipping false Gods like prophets, statues, animals, people, money/wealth,THEMSELVES (like most of the egomaniacs around here) and calls them to worship the true creator of the heavens and earth who is the only one unique being who is worthy of that worship.

[Dawood]

the dirty punk rock dude? what about him?

 

ah, forget it.

[thinksmall]

I am satisfied with accepting that I do not know.

thats agnostic!

 

god wants us to be virtuous. could god not just be testing you with his word - through representation. because if you meet god im sure god will laugh at you, when you have done wrong, and explain that it is him who told you to.

[iloveboxcars]

ah, forget it.

 

 

 

yeah, exactly.

[Dawood]

yeah, exactly.

 

yeah, Booger.

[iloveboxcars]

yes, name calling with no basis at all makes you right dawood.

[Dawood]

chill out Booger, I just felt like calling you a name. Has nothing to do with me being right, I don't have to be right. I just wanted to call you Booger. This is America, I have the right to call you Booger without having the desire to be right. Youknowwhatimsayinchickenchowmein?

[iloveboxcars]

sometimes you're alright, sometimes you are extremely annoying.

[Dawood]

That's the problem with internet forums. It doesn't always come off right. But, yeah, you're alright too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Booger.

[russell jones]

Ok, so am I supposed to go talk about how jesus is God or that we should worship Cows?

 

Islam is a superior religion , do your history. The only reason muslims are not ruling the earth right now is because they are too busy chasing after materialism with the rest of the world and turning away from their religion. When muslims actually practice the faith, Allah raises them and makes them just rulers. When they don't he punishes them and puts oppressive rulers over them. It's all through history over and over. So, in response to your statement, Islam IS the most superior way of life for all of mankind, that takes people away from worshipping false Gods like prophets, statues, animals, people, money/wealth,THEMSELVES (like most of the egomaniacs around here) and calls them to worship the true creator of the heavens and earth who is the only one unique being who is worthy of that worship.

 

Conclusions without evidence are tirades, not arguments.

[Dawood]

Conclusions without evidence are tirades, not arguments.

 

 

I can post evidence all day. I've done that hundreds of times throughout this thread.

The problem is that some of you wont accept evidence from the quran or the teachings of the prophet Muhammad. Allah and his messenger have presented their evidence and billions of people have taken heed to it generation after generation.

I can see why Islam these days not a popular choice to make so peoples minds will try to squirm out of the fact that none has the right to be worshipped except the one who created them. But it is what it is and one day everyone is going to be held accountable for what he did in his or her life.

There's no such thing as actions without accountability and there's no such thing as creation without a creator. Things do not just produce themselves. Find me one example of something that produced itself without help from another living being, hmmm hard to find one isn't it? Well, then how can you beleive that everything was produced by nothing?

 

Here's your proof...

Do they not look in the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all things that Allâh has created, and that it may be that the end of their lives is near. In what message after this will they then believe? (Al-A'raf 7:185)

[thinksmall]

what language did allah speak? or any other god?

[Dawood]

what language did allah speak? or any other god?

 

 

Allah is capable of speaking any language and simultaneously understands every word spoken by everyone at all times. But the quran was revealed in the pure tongue of Arabic.

[the.crooked]

im boycotting posting things until the conversation gets interesting again. if it ever does.

[~>MooseKnuckle<~]

Ok, so am I supposed to go talk about how jesus is God or that we should worship Cows?

 

Islam is a superior religion , do your history. The only reason muslims are not ruling the earth right now is because they are too busy chasing after materialism with the rest of the world and turning away from their religion. When muslims actually practice the faith, Allah raises them and makes them just rulers. When they don't he punishes them and puts oppressive rulers over them. It's all through history over and over. So, in response to your statement, Islam IS the most superior way of life for all of mankind, that takes people away from worshipping false Gods like prophets, statues, animals, people, money/wealth,THEMSELVES (like most of the egomaniacs around here) and calls them to worship the true creator of the heavens and earth who is the only one unique being who is worthy of that worship.

 

compelling arguement. but your personal belief asside - how is your first statement any different from the jew who believes that jews are gods chosen people? or the christian who believes that anyone not accepting jesus is hellbound. just about any religious person can back up their belief with historical occurrences. but when it comes down to it, it is just a belief, and a belief is just an opinion that you feel strongly about. sorry to come in on the ass end of this thred and ask something that may have already been covered.

[Dawood]

compelling arguement. but your personal belief asside - how is your first statement any different from the jew who believes that jews are gods chosen people? or the christian who believes that anyone not accepting jesus is hellbound. just about any religious person can back up their belief with historical occurrences. but when it comes down to it, it is just a belief, and a belief is just an opinion that you feel strongly about. sorry to come in on the ass end of this thred and ask something that may have already been covered.

 

I was born into a Christian family, I became a muslim 7 years ago based on the main belief that muslims hold on to called Tawheed.

The meaning of Tawheed is to worship God alone while disbelieving in the false gods.

Believing that God is the only one worthy of your worship, that he is the only creator and that He is described by what he describes himself with in the Quran and on the tongue of his messenger.

 

There's a lot of details to that statement as well. It's not just the historical occurances that lead me to believe that Islam is the true religion, it's mainly the Tawheed. For example,

The christian that beleives that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus is correct (during the time of Jesus) and the Jew that believes that the Jews are the chosen people are correct in the sense that Bani Israel (the Jews) were preferred over many nations since God sent them many messengers. We also beleive that the Jews (the ones who followed Moses) before the advent of the prophet Muhammad were believers. But when Muhammad received revelation

it was an obligation on those Jews and those Christians to accept Islam since it was written in their books of a coming messenger and they knew his description.

Anyway, I'm getting off track, but in short. Christians worship Jesus, and Jesus was not God because he was a human and was subject to human faults unlike God.

God is the everliving and does not die. (like the cheistians claim)

Jews say that Ezra is the son of God (correct me if I'm wrong Mar) and how can God have children if he has no wife? Also, the Jews reject the prophet Muhammad while it's clear that he was the coming prophet that they were waiting for although , they still rejected him.

Not to mention the many ways that Jews (in their eyes) lower God's status by attributing atrocious things to God.

 

I'd like to add that this is not a personal attack on Jews or Christians, just explaining why I believe that Islam is superior to other faiths. Based upon giving the creator of the heavens and earth his rightful props by not attributing atrocious things to him like the animal act of having children.

[Cracked Ass]

Zed, don't bother. Whatever you think of Dawood's faith, it is a wall, extremely thick and of solid construction. People like us who are comfortable dealing in uncertainty will never get through. Of course, it works both ways.

[Dawood]

So be patient. Verily, the Promise of Allâh is true, and let not those who have no certainty of faith, discourage you from conveying Allâh's Message (which you are obliged to convey). (Ar-Rum 30:60)

 

 

But as for those in whose hearts is a disease (of doubt, disbelief and hypocrisy), it will add suspicion and doubt to their suspicion, disbelief and doubt, and they die while they are disbelievers. (At-Tawbah 9:125)

 

It's amazing to me that while the light is present, people still choose to be in darkness and

doubt.

[Dawood]

Zed, don't bother. Whatever you think of Dawood's faith, it is a wall, extremely thick and of solid construction. People like us who are comfortable dealing in uncertainty will never get through. Of course, it works both ways.

 

Let me ask you a question. Why is it that you call my faith something extremely thick and of solid construction, and you call what you are on uncertainty , but still you look upon my solid structure with disdain while your uncertainty is looked upon as something good.

 

In my book, being uncertain about something is weaker than a spiders house. It doesn't seem like a very sturdy structure to live in. Like any wind will come along and blast you to bits. It seems like a firm grasp onto a fixed object is a much better position to be in.

 

There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in false Gods and believes in Allâh, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allâh is All-Hearer, All-Knower. (Al-Baqarah 2:256)

[Cracked Ass]

Your wall is built from fiction, that's why. Its very density is what prevents you from seeing its lack of mooring. I can't reach you through those walls. If I could I would show you square one of the scientific method for attempting to understand the universe.

Be careful not to rearrange my words improperly. I never said I call what I am on uncertainty. I said I am comfortable dealing in uncertainty. Science is more humble than Islam, because science admits how little it knows; but everything it knows, it can prove. If it cannot prove something, it says it does not know that thing, but only has a hypothesis about it, which requires testing.

Science has the only certainty I can hold onto. It is very incomplete, and the vastness of what it does not know is the vastness of uncertainty. In MY book, to accept the vastness of the unknown takes strength and humility; whereas to deliberately substitute for the unknown a fictional answer key takes a mixture of weakness and arrogance.

[Smart]

I caught the very tail end of a show about atheism on PBS tonight... I don't know the title or anything really but, in 5 minutes dude spoke on some shit and it was pretty interesting...

 

One of the things that got me interested was that he didn't shy away, in fact pointed out, the reality that there are literally thousands of disaffected and uneducated people today who embrace atheism and (at least) hundreds of super educated scientists/biologists who are devout believers...

 

So, with what little clues I can give... catch that if you can... even if you're married to your own beliefs (and who in here isn't)... VERY interesting stuff.

[~>MooseKnuckle<~]

Dawood - while your answer is well explained, mildly articulate but very knowledgeable, it does not drive to the heart of my question, and in one respect it does not answer it. My original question “what makes your statement different…” is really a rhetorical question. So in another respect your response does answer my question. Quoting the dogmatic interpretation of religious doctrine written by the fathers of any religion who claim they were divinely inspired is the same answer I would get from any deeply religious person; apropos – you can only answer with, what your religion tells you. You lack the very ability to think for yourself. Which is why I said, put your religious belief aside.

I have read and studied many religions. I know people who live these religions and all have the same general answer as you when this, and more difficult questions are posed.

What I do appreciate however about your response is that you continuously say “I believe” or “we believe” that lets me know that to some degree you know that Islam and its teachings are YOUR belief – only. Belief does not equate to truth – because truth is relative only to the person who believes it. There is no absolute truth – about anything.

 

For a long period in my 20s I was a Rasta. I could recite verse and give historical data and articulate evidence on why his imperial majesty Haile Selassie was the second coming of Christ, and back it up with evidence better than a New York lawyer. In the long run I evolved and learned that evidence is not proof. Furthermore my quest for understanding the universe could never be satisfied by that or any religion. I visited the mosque a few times back then…..but again – the questions I posed could never be answered to my satisfaction.

 

Cracked – as usual, I agree wholeheartedly with you. When I debate religion with the religious (which is not often), I am accused of being a heathen, hell bound, infidel etc. etc. and I wear those titles proudly. Foremost, I am a free thinker, a skeptic – something a religious zealot can never understand or be. I do believe in a creator, a supreme power The Force if you will, so I am not a pure atheist – but I do not believe religion justifies it or explains it….by its very nature religion cannot fully explain anything other than itself. I too prefer science because it provides the proof that I require. I believe the universe is logical, mathematically correct and perfect. In my book God is science. Not in a deifying kind of way, because I am the only deity in my life. Religion for me defies logic on just about every level. Two people populated the entire planet in a few thousand years – that’s not logical. Immaculate conception? That’s not logical.

Also – like you – I am so comfortable with the uncertainty of science. To quote Erikah Badu “the man that knows something knows that he knows nothing at all” That is the comfort zone I exist in daily.