El Mamerro Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 So apparently James Cameron (Titanic, Terminator 2, etc.) found Jesus. Like, literally. In a tomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 HUh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 was his body still intact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcelain Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 i dont know if this has been covered before and im sorry if it has...but did god create his creation in the image of himself????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I was thinking about how God must of created us in the image of his asshole, since we are always doing such terrible things to each other. But this guy has different ideas. "God is an Asshole This post is by Chris not Norm. Whenever a tragedy on the scale of the recent tsunami occurs, it is natural to ask the question that on old woman from the India asked. "Why did you do this to us God?" Reuters has a news story named after this question. Here are some of the answers our world's "wise" religious leaders give us. "This is an expression of God's great ire with the world," Israeli chief rabbi Shlomo Amar told Reuters. "The world is being punished for wrongdoing -- be it people's needless hatred of each other, lack of charity, moral turpitude." Some people hate each other, so lets just indiscriminately kill 100,000+ people. That'll teach 'em. What kind of asshole would act like that? Apparently God. Azizan Abdul Razak, a Muslim cleric and vice president of Malaysia's Islamic opposition party, Parti Islam se-Malaysia, said the disaster was a reminder from god that "he created the world and can destroy the world." Sounds like God has an inferiority complex. He has to massacre a bunch of people to show how tough he is. What an asshole. A more modern view has it that scientists present the best explanation for the cause of the tsunami and that God doesn't interfere. Well in this case we have a God who just sits back and watches thousands of people die without doing anything. What an asshole. If we could name a human being who was responsible for this or who could have easily prevented it and did not, he would be hated and reviled throughout history. Characters such as Hitler and Stalin who were responsible for thousands of deaths like this are rightly reviled. Why does God get a moral get out of jail free card. God is an asshole!" http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2004/12/god_is_an_assho.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 No. That's a distortion and an idea that was a result of poor translation. in the Quran God says, So do not put forward similitudes for Allâh (as there is nothing similar to Him, nor does He resemble anything). Truly! Allâh knows and you know not. (An-Nahl 16:74) "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him." (Al-Ikhlas 112:4) The Prophet’s words, "Adam was created in His image" means that Allaah created Adam in His image, for He HAS A FACE, AN EYE, A HAND, AND A FOOT, and Adam had a face, an eye, a hand, and a foot… but that does not mean that these things are exactly the same. so we understand by combining between many texts that God has an image and that man has an image and they are not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 I was thinking about how God must of created us in the image of his asshole, since we are always doing such terrible things to each other. But this guy has different ideas. "God is an Asshole This post is by Chris not Norm. Whenever a tragedy on the scale of the recent tsunami occurs, it is natural to ask the question that on old woman from the India asked. "Why did you do this to us God?" Reuters has a news story named after this question. Here are some of the answers our world's "wise" religious leaders give us. "This is an expression of God's great ire with the world," Israeli chief rabbi Shlomo Amar told Reuters. "The world is being punished for wrongdoing -- be it people's needless hatred of each other, lack of charity, moral turpitude." Some people hate each other, so lets just indiscriminately kill 100,000+ people. That'll teach 'em. What kind of asshole would act like that? Apparently God. Azizan Abdul Razak, a Muslim cleric and vice president of Malaysia's Islamic opposition party, Parti Islam se-Malaysia, said the disaster was a reminder from god that "he created the world and can destroy the world." Sounds like God has an inferiority complex. He has to massacre a bunch of people to show how tough he is. What an asshole. A more modern view has it that scientists present the best explanation for the cause of the tsunami and that God doesn't interfere. Well in this case we have a God who just sits back and watches thousands of people die without doing anything. What an asshole. If we could name a human being who was responsible for this or who could have easily prevented it and did not, he would be hated and reviled throughout history. Characters such as Hitler and Stalin who were responsible for thousands of deaths like this are rightly reviled. Why does God get a moral get out of jail free card. God is an asshole!" http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2004/12/god_is_an_assho.html youre an ungrateful little bitch. You wouldn't even be able to take a leak if God didn't create youre organs in such a perfect way that you use them freely. Youre eyes, how they focus on everything and function day in and day out effortlessly. I can't stand little ungrateful son of a bitches like you. You sit here everyday eating the food that God grew , living in his universe within his galaxy, sitting on his planet on that rotten, dispicable, arrogant ass that he created by his wisdom to be a cushion for you when you sit on his property by his mercy. And still you have the nerve to question why God does what he does out of his wisdom. Your a tiny, insignifigint speck of waste. One day your decomposing stink box of a body will be dropped into the ground and turned into worm food. If God is an asshole , then find another place that doesn't belong to him to live, you peice of shit. You should drop on your face and beg forgiveness of your creator before your life is cut short possibly by a natural disaster of some sorts. Don't ever compare God to evil dictators and murderers. I'll smack the taste out of your mouth you little homo. (this is for Chris not Norm, not you russ, he,he got you didn't I) excuse the language by the way, I don't know what got into me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pornbooth Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 youre calling someone out for not sharing the same delusion as you? you need to get your fucking head checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 ok, see how delusional you are when you're standing naked on a flat plain with billions of people all drowning in your own sweat begging to come back and beleive in God, and when youre being dragged into a burning pit by hooks that are stuck into your body for turning you back on the purpose you were created, you gamble on that one tough guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3ader Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 i think dawood won that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 ok, see how delusional you are when you're standing naked on a flat plain with billions of people all drowning in your own sweat begging to come back and beleive in God, and when youre being dragged into a burning pit by hooks that are stuck into your body for turning you back on the purpose you were created, you gamble on that one tough guy. pascal's wager can blow me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Module X Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 ^ Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I think believing in God is much easier than atheism. An atheist has to face the eventually of the unavoidable end of existence. Religious people look forward to ever lasting life in paradise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansandrice Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 so someone found a body ina tomb and was like"oh shit this must be jesus since he was buried in a tomb!!" how would someone actually propve that its jesus, do they have a jesus hair to test the dna by??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenHarper Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Thats very true. However, living for him is the hard part... and something an atheist doesn't have to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Module X Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I don't know if I agree, from my personal experience I find true atheism deteriorates if it's given enough thought. From that sort of outside perspective, the differing religious concepts of "God" begin to run together and you realize what's really behind the dogma of a lot of these seemingly disparate religions. In physics you ultimately cannot avoid the fact that every manifestation of matter is a transient process, intimately related to other physical processes, and in any case it can all be equated to one substance, energy. I don't feel like writing an essay about it but I think you can see how this can also be equated to God. Call it spirituality if you want to put a label on it. I think the belief in an "unavoidable end of existence" is pure egotism, and earnest atheism is kind of immature. The rejection of dogma is good by me, but don't write off religion so quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Module X Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I know what you're saying, but I would take it further and say that you don't even need any external deity. The way I see it the universe is "God", you cannot ultimately separate a human being from a particle of dust floating in space 100,000 light years away and thus the universe is this one huge entity that, essentially, creates itself. You can ask "why do people suffer" or "why this" or "why that" all day but it's all irrelevant, because, really, why the fuck not? We are an expression of something out of an infinity of potential and I believe that's enough. Perhaps there is actually an entity that created us, but I don't think that matters. I could probably tack on something about mushrooms now and get this posted on Erowid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I wouldn't call that "god", Chalmers, I would call that the material world we live in. There is nothing magical or supernatural about it, so I think "god" is the wrong world. Absolutes aren't necessary to understand the physical world. BTW, why is it egotism to say that my existence is going to end? I can tell you right now, that this particular bundle of constantly changing cells that I call my body will die and my brain will stop functioning. Therefore, my "existence," as I perceive it, will end when I die. I am going to be cremated, to save space, so my ashes may someday become part of something else, but my consciousness will be gone forever. There may be some sort of residual energy from me, but it will not be the sentient being I am today. Why is atheism immature? Because I can't prove that there is no god? I don't think so. I don't know for sure that there isn't a god, but for me, they're might as well not be one, because I don't believe. The concept of god is useless to me and my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I recently heard some author on Book Notes saying that, in essence... that atheism was a burden on him because the more he thought about it, being an intellectual dude, the more challenges he found to it, and he found peace in the concept of there being something, or someone, behind it all... he said he didn't believe in the context of good vs. evil or lazy vs. always there or any of that, just that from a scientific standpoint it was easier to understand the things we can't understand with the concept of a diety... quite compelling. Exactly my point, it is comforting to believe in God. Calling things we don't understand "God," has absolutely nothing to do with science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 Thats very true. However, living for him is the hard part... and something an atheist doesn't have to deal with. I don't like to bundle everyone up and throw them all under the same bus, so I'll just speak for myself. Living is not difficult for me, and I'm a muslim. Living is very much a new experience and learning curve everyday. unlike popular thought concerning "religious" individuals. We all are not the "i know it all and can't learn anything" types as a matter of fact, some of the greatest scholars of Islam considered themselves small students and said that they continued learning until the death. Life is beautiful and the afterlife will be unimaginably better for the beleiver. To those that beleive there is no afterlife, let's not talk psychology, let's talk physics, is there no soul? What keeps our hearts pumping? don't you beleive in a spiritual world? Think for a moment how the human body continues living with no external force connected to it, no usb cord or power line, no wifi signal etc. We are surely being propelled by an all wise omnipotent creator, who does not die. And life is not difficult for the beleiver, life for the beleiver is made easy, not in the sense that everything is always in on time and exactly the way it should be, but the beleiver is patient with trials and afflictions, the beleiver has no problem facing hardships because he knows at the end of his difficulty is ease and that the hardship is just a purification for him. I've been down the road most of you are on, I used to sound just like SuperNintendo Chalmers. I'm familiar with not beleiving in anything or better yet, as russel says, not being able to prove it. Well, I can't show you God, but i'm positive God exists beause of his signs and his creation, I can't show you electricity or air ,but I can show you the effects of electricity and the light it produces as well as the wind air produces, that's how we know they are there. Well, getting back to psychology, I personally think people don't want to beleive in God because it brings upon them too much personal responsibility. Also, those who do beleive in God in some way , shape or form, but don't beleive in religion are again, following their own desires and wants, not necessarily the wants of God. To me, if a person beleives in the existance of God, then reflects on what this God would want or require of him, then from there he should conclude that God did not create all of this for no purpose, because there is nothing in existance that has no purpose, so why should us, the most complex of creation have no purpose, if something as miniscule as a mosquito has a purpose, or a fly, or a knat, then why would humans have no purpose except to live and die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I think believing in God is much easier than atheism. An atheist has to face the eventually of the unavoidable end of existence. Religious people look forward to ever lasting life in paradise. and living with the possibility of eternal damnation if we are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 pascals wager is looking better for you huh? I don't roll with pascal's wager anyway, the muslim has yaqin (google it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I don't like to bundle everyone up and throw them all under the same bus, so I'll just speak for myself. Living is not difficult for me, and I'm a muslim. Living is very much a new experience and learning curve everyday. unlike popular thought concerning "religious" individuals. We all are not the "i know it all and can't learn anything" types as a matter of fact, some of the greatest scholars of Islam considered themselves small students and said that they continued learning until the death. Life is beautiful and the afterlife will be unimaginably better for the beleiver. To those that beleive there is no afterlife, let's not talk psychology, let's talk physics, is there no soul? What keeps our hearts pumping? don't you beleive in a spiritual world? Think for a moment how the human body continues living with no external force connected to it, no usb cord or power line, no wifi signal etc. We are surely being propelled by an all wise omnipotent creator, who does not die. And life is not difficult for the beleiver, life for the beleiver is made easy, not in the sense that everything is always in on time and exactly the way it should be, but the beleiver is patient with trials and afflictions, the beleiver has no problem facing hardships because he knows at the end of his difficulty is ease and that the hardship is just a purification for him. I've been down the road most of you are on, I used to sound just like SuperNintendo Chalmers. I'm familiar with not beleiving in anything or better yet, as russel says, not being able to prove it. Well, I can't show you God, but i'm positive God exists beause of his signs and his creation, I can't show you electricity or air ,but I can show you the effects of electricity and the light it produces as well as the wind air produces, that's how we know they are there. die? There's some beautiful ideas and words in there Dawood. Can't compete with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Module X Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I wouldn't call that "god", Chalmers, I would call that the material world we live in. There is nothing magical or supernatural about it, so I think "god" is the wrong world. Absolutes aren't necessary to understand the physical world. I'm sorry that you don't find anything magical about the material world. But logical comprehensibility is only skin deep; science cannot answer the deeper questions of why we exist at all, or why physical law functions as it does. For example, think about the singularity of inflation theory. No matter how well you explain the dynamics of inflation and the ensuing evolution of the universe, there's always this atavistic why that cannot be explained. I find that pretty magic and supernatural. BTW, why is it egotism to say that my existence is going to end? I can tell you right now, that this particular bundle of constantly changing cells that I call my body will die and my brain will stop functioning. Therefore, my "existence," as I perceive it, will end when I die. I am going to be cremated, to save space, so my ashes may someday become part of something else, but my consciousness will be gone forever. There may be some sort of residual energy from me, but it will not be the sentient being I am today. It's egotism because the only thing that ends is your conscious ego. The point is that the ego draws a false separation between your "self" and the material world. Your body goes back into the natural cycle of things, and the energy that makes you up remains a part of the vast process that is the universe. Just because you don't believe in a creator doesn't mean you can't recognize the transience of individual consciousness. An 'atheist' doesn't have to confront death as if it were an abyss. Why is atheism immature? Because I can't prove that there is no god? I don't think so. I don't know for sure that there isn't a god, but for me, they're might as well not be one, because I don't believe. The concept of god is useless to me and my life. You missed my point. I was saying that atheism as a rejection of religion is immature, because there is something to learn from underlying religious ideas regardless of what you think about the existence of a creator or the validity of religious dogma. I approach religious texts like I approach literature. "God" doesn't have to be seen as a creator, in my case I consider the word an expression of the underlying unity and creativity of the material world. I'm a student of science, and I used to consider myself an atheist until I developed my own definition of "God," on my own terms. There's nothing wrong with being an atheist, but I think an atheist who has really thought about these things for a while won't in the end be so earnest in his rejection of religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcelain Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 No. That's a distortion and an idea that was a result of poor translation. in the Quran God says, So do not put forward similitudes for Allâh (as there is nothing similar to Him, nor does He resemble anything). Truly! Allâh knows and you know not. (An-Nahl 16:74) "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him." (Al-Ikhlas 112:4) The Prophet’s words, "Adam was created in His image" means that Allaah created Adam in His image, for He HAS A FACE, AN EYE, A HAND, AND A FOOT, and Adam had a face, an eye, a hand, and a foot… but that does not mean that these things are exactly the same. so we understand by combining between many texts that God has an image and that man has an image and they are not the same. thanks....that makes more sense than the asshole thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I'm sorry that you don't find anything magical about the material world. But logical comprehensibility is only skin deep; science cannot answer the deeper questions of why we exist at all, or why physical law functions as it does. For example, think about the singularity of inflation theory. No matter how well you explain the dynamics of inflation and the ensuing evolution of the universe, there's always this atavistic why that cannot be explained. I find that pretty magic and supernatural. It's egotism because the only thing that ends is your conscious ego. The point is that the ego draws a false separation between your "self" and the material world. Your body goes back into the natural cycle of things, and the energy that makes you up remains a part of the vast process that is the universe. Just because you don't believe in a creator doesn't mean you can't recognize the transience of individual consciousness. An 'atheist' doesn't have to confront death as if it were an abyss. You missed my point. I was saying that atheism as a rejection of religion is immature, because there is something to learn from underlying religious ideas regardless of what you think about the existence of a creator or the validity of religious dogma. I approach religious texts like I approach literature. "God" doesn't have to be seen as a creator, in my case I consider the word an expression of the underlying unity and creativity of the material world. I'm a student of science, and I used to consider myself an atheist until I developed my own definition of "God," on my own terms. There's nothing wrong with being an atheist, but I think an atheist who has really thought about these things for a while won't in the end be so earnest in his rejection of religion. I think there are lots of beautiful ideas in religions as well, I didn't get your point. I don't use atheism to discount religion. On my myspace site, two of my heroes are Jesus Christ and Buddha. I don't perceive anything other than through my consciousness. I exist as a perception of my mind, as does the rest of the world. I am not sure what you mean by transience of individual consciousness. I think you didn't understand my point about absolutes. It is the main reason why I changed my mind, deciding that I was an atheist and not simply agnostic. Many people use your definition of God, I am sure crooked could name some philosophers that have reasoned some of the same things that you have. I believe you are correct in stating that science cannot ultimately explain origins, but at the same time, it does not intend to. Science will never answer any question about the nature of reality in a complete, or absolute way. Science can only make endlessly more accurate approximations of the nature of reality, it cannot completely describe reality. Perhaps more importantly, it isn't reality. But that is not to say that I search for absolute answers in other places, as I believe you have. Instead, I simply accept that there is no absolute reality. Maybe I am misinterpreting your statements though. Perhaps where you see "God" or the absolute, I see emptiness. Meaning, reality has no ultimate source. Additionally, reality has no independent existence separated from our perceptions. So physicists have even gone out as far to say that it can be essentially empirically proven that pieces of the macro universe don't exist until we perceive of them. I don't think I see my death as abyss, but simply an end that I cannot fully wrap my brain around. When I die I don't think it will matter anyway. I noticed that my first paragraph may seem to contradict the second or the third, but it doesn't. My absolute is not my consciousness, because my consciousness is not absolute. The creation of macro universe items does not constitute absoluteness either, since the creation can come from any source, and the energy of it does not independently exist separate from the macro beings that perceive it. Also, I may find that the "atavistic" (to borrow your word) that can't be explained is magical in the sense of the word that means "giving a feeling of enchantment," but I don't perceive it in the meaning of the word that says "having seemingly supernatural qualities or powers." I believe it is all perfectly natural. Did you ever notice that your feelings and beliefs come into existence as they are defined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 science cannot answer the deeper questions of why we exist at all, or why physical law functions as it does. Just because scientists don't understand at this moment why physical law functions as it does, does not mean that it will not be better understood in the future. Law may be a bad term too, it implies an end, although scientific laws exist, they remain mutable to a certain extent. 2+2 isn't always 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pornbooth Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 ok, see how delusional you are when you're standing naked on a flat plain with billions of people all drowning in your own sweat begging to come back and beleive in God, and when youre being dragged into a burning pit by hooks that are stuck into your body for turning you back on the purpose you were created, you gamble on that one tough guy. are you serious? youre a fucking maniac. i just hope you dont subject your children to such nonsense. do you tell them if they don't believe, they'll be tortured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted March 2, 2007 Author Share Posted March 2, 2007 OK, slow down, I'm being dramatic Mr. Booth, since youre so concerned about my kids. I teach my kids manners, I teach my kids about God, I teach them how to be upright and honest. I teach them how to rock deadletters and how to throw a nasty 3d on a wildstyle. I teach them to have good work ethic and to be perseverent and diligent in whatever they want to achieve, I encourage intellect and that they should respect their elders. I teach them how to pray and how to set their intention in their heart so that their good deeds will be accepted. And yes, I teach them about paradise and hellfire, but I don't threaten them because the best beleiver is the one who beleives out of love of God and seeking his reward not out of fear of him and and his punishment, although, they are both beleivers and the more complet faith is the one who has Love, Fear and hope of Allah. Loving him for his blessings and favors on us, fearing his punishment and hoping for his mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Module X Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 russell, I still think you're missing most of what I'm trying to say. On certain topics I think we are in agreement, and to be honest, to some degree I think what you're saying is just nonsense. But the nature of this thread makes communicating ideas of this nature very frustrating. I might try to clarify things when I'm not so drunk but I think perhaps a third party perspective might do more than I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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