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mental invalid

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: "post war" death tolls exceed those during "major combat"

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yes, you all remember the commander in theif, flying onto the deck of the aircraft, the force of american power....the karl rove media machine strategically placing the banner splashed in red white and blue as the back drop....its words blaring for all the world:

 

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

 

 

last time i checked you only got to say that once the mission was finished, not when the easy part was done...

 

what was the mission?

 

1. to find WMD

2. to rid iraq of hussein and the bath party

3. to stabilize iraq

 

wow, based on this criteria, sounds like a smashing success thus far....

 

and today, the number of dead american soilders has exceeded those killed in combat before this media spin by bush....

 

kudos george, i only hope that you handle the economy as well as your handling the mid-east.....

 

 

roe is pissed.......

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by the way the reason i put "post war" and "major combat" in quotes was precisely because those are the presidents words, and he is using linguistic malarky to try to pull the wool over...

 

its all just one war, its all major combat.....there is no distinction

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newsweek poll done last week

 

Americans are also concerned about the economic cost of rebuilding Iraq; 66 percent say they do not support the current amount being spent, the poll shows. Sixty percent say the U.S. should reduce the amount of money it is spending to establish security in Iraq and rebuild the country. Thirty-four percent say they support the current spending level, which is estimated at $1 billion per week

 

 

53 percent of respondents say they would oppose any increase in U.S. spending for operations there, the poll shows. Just seven percent say they'd support a major increase in spending and 30 percent say they'd support a minor increase. Almost half of those polled (47%) say they're very concerned that the cost of maintaining troops in Iraq will lead to a larger budget deficit and seriously hurt the U.S. economy, according to the poll.

 

 

Despite their concerns, the majority of Americans (61%) say the U.S. did the right thing in taking military action against Iraq last March (a seven- point decrease from the July 24-25 poll); 33 percent disagree, a five-point increase from the July poll. Going forward, 72 percent say they would support turning over some of the authority for rebuilding Iraq to the United Nations since some allies say that is necessary if they are to send troops to postwar Iraq. And 52 percent say they'd support more aggressive action by U.S. forces to stop the violence, even if it means greater risk of civilian casualties. Americans polled are split almost evenly (48% yes, 47% no) on whether to withdraw U.S. military personnel from Iraq in response to the attacks on U.S. military personnel and other targets.

 

 

 

what does this poll tell me......that 70% percent of the country who thought going to war was justified, now dont have the fucking stomach for the hard part....maybe american laziness, who knows...

 

and these fucking people who thought we had a problem before and were justified in going in, are going to create an even bigger threat then the one posed orginally.......

 

 

let me remind everyone:

 

WE HAVE NOT EVEN BEEN THERE FOR 6 MONTHS.....

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Guest
Originally posted by mental invalid

wow, based on this criteria, sounds like a smashing success thus far....

 

now roe, you know that sarcasm only hurts the american

people and it also makes the jesus potato peel. behave!

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Guest imported_Tesseract

Man, its a fuckin joke from day1...as shit continues it just gets thicker. At that time Blair is getting fucked over in the UK over iraq. What pisses me off is that i have the impression that Bush wont get reelected not because of all those things but simply cause he fucked up the economy.

My take is that the majority of Americans are polliticaly numb.

Wake the fuck up.

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Guest TEARZ

wake the fuck up or get woke the fuck up

the wisdom we supply son, soak this shit up

if it were sess y'all saggins would smoke this shit up

wake the fuck up or get woke the fuck up

 

tears is pissed too. get those people home.

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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: "post war" death tolls exceed those during "major combat&qu

 

Originally posted by mental invalid

kudos george, i only hope that you handle the economy as well as your handling the mid-east.....

 

 

roe is pissed.......

 

link.

 

Bush to run for prez with $500 billion deficit

 

The CBO is predicting a $500 billion deficit in 2004, followig its prediction of the record-shattering $401 billion shortfall this year. Neither of those numbers include the $4 billion a month or so spent on the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts.

 

And the deficit is twice as big if the social security surplus isn't factored in.

The Budget Committee Democrats said their analysis shows that the deficit will hit $495 billion in 2004, and will never go below $300 billion in the 2004-2013 period, reaching a total over the decade of $3.7 trillion.

 

If money from the Social Security surpluses now being used to pay for other federal programs is not factored in, the decade-long deficit will be $6.3 trillion, they said [...]

 

The CBO numbers ... do not take into account the $1.2 trillion that will be lost if tax cuts scheduled to expire over the next decade are made permanent, and another $878 billion in new tax cuts over the decade being sought by the White House.

 

Boy, we're going to see some nice, shiny charts in this election cycle. I look forward to seeing Bush defend his borrow and spend stewardship of the budget.

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And:

 

link.

 

Bush to address nation on Iraq

 

Oh boy. According to the AP, the number of Americans killed after Bush's crotch-padding "mission accomplished" moment on the USS Lincoln has now surpassed those killed before.

 

139.

 

The total of US and Brits killed in the war varies story to story, but it's at least 328.

 

Indeed, things are so bad, it's forcing Bush to emerge from his month-long vacation to actually defend his FUBARed war.

 

The president, who is in the last week of an August vacation at his Texas ranch, will travel to St. Louis to make the case for sustained involvement in Iraq despite calls to either pull out or reinforce U.S. forces, and for continued engagement in the Middle East despite new violence that has stalled the peace process.

Events have moved far out of Bush's control. The Neocons thought they could control the situation, but ultimately, the US can do nothing more than react.

 

Bush's speech is clearly part of a concerted effort by the administration to defend its war performance. Rice took up the theme yesterday:

 

Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, on Monday said, "The war on terror must be fought on the offense."

 

"When Americans begin a noble cause, we finish it," Rice told veterans in San Antonio, Texas. "We are 117 days from the end of major combat operations (in Iraq) -- that is simply not very long."

Except that noble wars aren't sold on lies. Noble wars are embraced by the world community. Noble wars don't lead to protracted occupations and vicious guerilla war from a hostile populace.

 

In other words, noble wars look nothing like Iraq.

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For people who are interested in this thread, I highly recommend this site: http://www.dailykos.com/

 

Excellent political analysis from a lefty perspective, plus comment functions for every blog update (with [usually] very intelligent conversation).

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see thats just it tearz, were in this shit now....we cant pull out...

 

it will destroy any credibility we have left as well as plunge the region into greater dispair....

 

im stunned by the weak backbone of the people who were for this war, but now that shit has gotten a little hectic they wanna pull out...

 

for god sakes, this is gonna take time....and one thing america doesnt have is patience....blame it on consumerism, blame it on the advent of the 24/7 news, etc etc...what ever it is, it has caused us to think in terms of immediate results....

 

"whatta mean were going to be there 5-10 years, doesnt nation building take six months???"

 

no jackoff, so take your proud to be an american single, and your whopper with cheese, and shut the fuck up....you wanted to invade iraq, your believed the president, you called me unpatriotic, and now YOU wanna pull out....oh, i dont think so jack ass....mom shoulda showed you how to clean up your mess....

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"Except that noble wars aren't sold on lies. Noble wars are embraced by the world community. Noble wars don't lead to protracted occupations and vicious guerilla war from a hostile populace.

 

In other words, noble wars look nothing like Iraq."

 

 

 

aint that the fucking troof.......

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Guest TEARZ
Originally posted by mental invalid

see thats just it tearz, were in this shit now....we cant pull out...

yes. i agree.

but, i was speaking a person who has friends over there, in those "policing" missions where dudes are getting slaughtered on the regular, and based on some of the emails i'm getting from them, i'm scared of what type of people they'll be when they come home.

there are some questions about staying in....

why try and complete a ridiculous objective?

for how long? and after how many deaths on both sides?

will reaching the objective actually create any sense of "credibility"? it may among certain nations, but it will fortify hatred from others.

i hear you, and i agree, but there's a large part of me that believes in the micro-economics principle of "cutting your losses."

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Who am I paraphrasing?

 

"the only good wars were the american revolution,

the second world war* and the star wars trillogy."

 

 

 

*I agree it was about as 'good' as a war can get

but many really heinous things were done by all sides.

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this constantly amazes me. we gave some (already rich) asshole 30million dollars, for turning in two guys. 30 million dollars for one phone call. we could have updated every ghetto school in the country with new textbooks for the upcoming school year, but instead we payed that retarded bounty.

we're spending a billion dollars a week to rebuild a country none of us will ever go to, and that 90% of us wanted to bomb off the face of the planet on sep 12th 2001, never mind the fact that no tie has ever been found. were such 'humanitarians' meanwhile ten times as many people have been slaughtered in liberia over the last 15 years, and we're just now considering taking action. iraq may have had an evil dictator, and lived in relative squalor, but they sure as fuck didnt have to fear simply walking down the street and being murdered by an 11 year old in a marilyn monroe wig, high on glue, with a god damn human finger bone hanging out his mouth!

 

ugggh... i just get annoyed. america is seriously 'gay' as fuck. fuck the politicians that fuck the people, that can fuck off as well, just for being self centered fucking sheep. honestly, i hope this shit drags on for 3 more years, fuck it, ten more years. i hope it damn near destroys us financially, and leaves tens of thousands of our soldiers dead. why? because perhaps then we (americans) will finally fucking wake up, and not allow our government to endanger the lives of every living thing on the planet, human, animal and plant alike. american lives mean no more to me than iraqi or palestinian lives. if they're gonna be dying, then fuckit, we should be dying with them. its our fucking war in the first place. saddam might have been all the evil shit people claim, but without the threat of WMD (which obviously there was not) he was a humanitarian issue, not a military one.

 

ok, i will stop now. i went off for a full page about starbucks, image the lengths i could begin repeating myself at here.

 

seeks/fuck us

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tearz, iraq isnt a quantative column on an excel spreadsheat, its a country, full of people that are now 100% dependent on us for every single thing in their lives. we cant just 'cut' our losses. we wanted their oil, we got it. we wanted to sell them hamburgers, we got it, now we've got to come through wiith water, sewage treatement, police and garbage men as well.

 

it's our bed, we've now got to lay in it.

 

then perhaps iin the future, we'll think twice about who we lay down with.

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tearz i hope you get to see your friends sooner then later....

 

 

i think it all boils down to poor planning...thats it, just poor planning....

 

 

the mission was not accomplished, and to tell the american people that it was, was simply a lie....

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This war has been like a low intensity vietnam. Whether we went to vietnam to push back the communists or to take over a recently self-emancipated french colony the war eventually became self-perpetuating as this one is. We have accomplished none of our objectives, real or not, and we are too stubborn and proud to call it quits now. Maybe the blood shed is motivation enough, either way this ball is rolling.

It's rather a ridiculous situation in many aspects. But what I really hate seeing is this dragging out for these ridiculous reasons. But if we must insist on staying there we should at least fight this war as though it is a guerilla war, which in fact it is. We need popular support. We need a host country police force. They have way better HUMINT to deal with this situation than we could ever hope for. We need to put power back into the hands of iraqis. We need to give them a reason to fight for us. A show of force is getting us nowhere. This is like beating a dead horse.

This truly is a humanitarian mission. We are swatting hellbent kamikaze flies with an elephant gun. This whole situation is really bending me out of shape here and I need to maintain my composure.

However now we do control the 1st and 2nd largest oil reserves in the world. Whatever that means. As soon as I am able I'm going to make my car fueled by toxic emissions anyways.

Who says nation building couldn't happen in months? I've seen McDonalds pop up in a matter of days. We have all these combat forces over there when we would do better with more civil affairs, psyops, linguists, engineers, etc. Iraq is falling apart as we speak. I have not seen it getting better at all. Only worse. As it grows worse I can only see it becoming more hostile. As it has. We have been there since march and the most we have been able to do is schedule elections? This is ridiculous. Somebody must think I'm a fool. What's really going on here?

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i didn't read most of this.....but if you thought that this was ever a good idea, you probably don't have a very good perspective on world affairs.unfortunately very typical for most americans.i wish mankind learned from it's mistakes.

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if all you whiney brats would listen to this simple saying "LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT" why dont you all move to france and get your protest on. crying about it and protesting in the middle of the streets blocking commerce isnt going to solve anything. Did bush listen to any of you crying fucks before durring or after this war. no. did america know about 9-11 befroe hand, according to you paranoid fucks the government was in on it. right. how about you guys acctually find someone who is smarter and who you feel would be better in the presidential office and elect him next time around instead of sitting around and complaining all day about how shitty america is. i bet you would be the same people in the 70's throwing rotten fruit at returning soldiers. bastards

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Guest BROWNer

i don't know about such a thing as a noble war(not tryin' to single you

out pooby bob, just rambling around)..

wars are the absolute ugliest thing ever,

from practically every angle. perpetrating states always

frame it as 'noble' and 'just' and propagate some

dire moral imperative to justify what amounts to

basically the worst possible form of communication

ever. alot of people contend that certain

wars were necessary and that many geopolitical

circumstances were ignored when military intervention

should have been mobilized and executed..

but...i will never buy the whole 'noble' thing..:tongue:

i don't know what to say about iraq. what's even more

amazing is the job done in afghanistan. remember?

what a fuck job :spent: :spent: :spent:

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Originally posted by poopy dog

how about you guys acctually find someone who is smarter and who you feel would be better in the presidential office and elect him next time around

 

They already did that, Gore 2000...

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