iCEBERG Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 nah it showed em murk a chick. they shot some dude, an some lady came up and picked up his gun an pointed it at those dudes an the hit her up pretty good. it showed some guy running through the hummers with his dead kid an shit. it showed a soldier murk this other dude with his kid right next to him cause he busted his ass comin out a house and landed in from of him. an i know the real deal behind it, well as much as i could be told and see/hear. but anyways it was a dope movie, now im going to watch iron monkey then zoolander again cause im that bored. and make some chocolate milk. but you know what like i said i dont really care but, right or wrong, this or that, im amerikkkan an maybe im brainwashed but id fuck somethin up for this country, give me a gun an point me in their direction, somebodys gettin hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest richard kyel Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Originally posted by boxcarwilly i definately agree that we cannot consider this mindless war heroic, stories of heroism are abound in the women who crouched in mud huts teaching school girls who were never supposed to learn to read how to. and what we bomb them now, we impose our beliefs and governmental policies on a culture we can never ever hope to understand, much like they cannot understand the gross materialism and inhumanity of the US. from the beginning ofscapegoating and blaming in this game, the US wants to come out on top... look who has the most Olympic medals so far, look who was the "hero" in death when he was interrogating a person who believed so strongly in his God that he would die for Allah. this country is on fire and the only water we have is words right now... i fully believe if you commit to the armed forces you have to be willing to die, if you didnt why would you hold a gun... it is bullshit the US soldiers over there are no more heroic than any murderer... rant done. dude you are so fuckin confused. we are trying to impose our beliefs on them because they believe they should kill us. their beliefs are completely fuckt. if they werent over there fighting you could be dead right now. but you such a fuckin pussy you act like you are all against what our country is doing as an excuse not to be over there. all you ever do on here is pick apart what everyone elses opinion is. nobodys perfect and there are no simple ways to resolve shit like this. if it was my choice i would have blown there whole fuckin country up. 99% of them cant think for themselves. they were all on the talibans side and we got rid of the taliban and now they are all for us. fuck those tools. i have so much more too say but im tired and i will keep my opinions to myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Good choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest richard kyel Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Originally posted by Tesseract Keep in mind that special forces soldiers, take pleasure on what they do. They're not your average joe and they're dying for some action. The only difference they have in comparison with a regular killer is that they are legal and manipulated, making them society-friendly. When it comes to regular soldiers, what can i say, i feel sorry for them but choices are choices. It seems that the US army is a mercenary army after all. Operating for interests that dont concern the people. Notice that echelon was and still is used mostly for industrial spying. i think your opinion doesnt cover everyone i have a friend over there because he joined the army so he could have a less hard time paying for college. they dont want to kill people. he basically said boot camp was fun but its not as fun when the bullets are coming at your head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-town_bomber Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 no they are not heroes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Yeah, when i say 'choices are choices' thats exactly what i mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest richard kyel Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 the special forces who were over there for that whole thing when the black hawk went down were protecting food we sent over there to help their starving. and in return for it they chose to kill our soldiers and show absolute disrespect for their bodies after they were dead. how can you say our countries policies are so bad every other country is so much worse. our goverment does some shady shit but not half as bad as some other countrys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Although i doubt that... Food was sent along with bombs, the taliban prisoners where left to be slaughtered by the northers...ugly shit happen in wars. And aparently US policies fuck so much with other countries that its not even funny, especially when you question the reasons. Apart from all that, you cant praise your self for having one eye when others are blind, especially when rippin eyes your self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Asid Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 lol The only reason were fighting them is because our citizens wouldnt be able to handle it if we didnt...Our goverment could give a flying fuck less that Afghanistan is still killing their own citizens and using them and brainwashing them just like how America brainwashes 70% of their citizens its a fucking joke and so are the olympics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NoamChomsky Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 The west became powerful exploiting other parts of the world.If you were in a fucked up situation that seemed hopeless,sticking a bomb on your chest and running into a crowded market might seem like the only way you could fight back.Africa and Asia are the sites of most of the major ancient civilizations.Its easy to call Arabs savages and shake your head at Africa saying "you guys will never learn will you?" but Imperialism is at least partly responsible for their descent into chaos. While I agree with Tesseract that special forces soldiers probaly look forward to action.I doubt they consider themselves as in the business of killing defenseless people.What do you guys think the army is about?Youre there to take orders blindly and it is not a democracy remember soldiers follow the UCMJ not the constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iCEBERG Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 well its basically like this. these men and boys go out there and risk their lives to protect YOU. if you got into a gun fight for example with your neighbors, wether right or wrong, lets say its because your brother stole their car, you are NOT going to let them shoot at your friends/family no matter what the reason is, right or wrong, their fighting for themselves and you. people say "i know fucking everything this is whats happening this is why and this is why its wrong" you know what? your fucking wrong. period. you think these people go out there and do this shit cause they like killing people" very few do but most? nope, your fucking wrong. you think those who go out there to kill people feel that way after shit hits the fan an they a hear a bullet go cracking by their head it was so fucking close, they most likely dont. im tired basically of people telling me this is how it is, this is why something happens and this is why they know it all. well you dont, and neither do i, i luckily can recognize that. some people are just so thick headed and caught up in their own beliefs and think their right all the fucking time that you get sucked into a little hole where it would take a swift boot to your head to realise "hey, maybe im wrong" i wouldnt be suprised if half of you people out their that say its wrong or whatever, went to go fight for what you thought was right, and heard a bullet crack by your head and would turn around and curl up like a fucking fetus only so other people could covor your ass. look basically what im saying is... "dont act like you know what the fuck is going on, because i sure as fuck dont, while the difference between me and you, is i dont pretend to know everything and base my firm, automatically right opinions on shit i couldnt tell you about first hand" i just had to get this off my chest, fuck what you think, you DON'T know everything, so dont act like you do, thank you and have a good fucking night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iCEBERG Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 yea incase you couldnt tell i just hate when people pass judgement on topics they think they've got all figured out when in reality... well you know where this reply's goin. it sounds like you might have gotten my point, and i wouldn't be suprised if it made sense to you, in just glad you didnt come back with shit talkin like i know im bound to get by tomorrow morning. so either your reply was sarcasm or it touched home, either or i can't tell, but atleast you didn't act 13 in your reply, and i respect that. ill get up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardenchapman Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Originally posted by richard kyel we are trying to impose our beliefs on them because they believe they should kill us. their beliefs are completely fuckt. if they werent over there fighting you could be dead right now. but you such a fuckin pussy you act like you are all against what our country is doing as an excuse not to be over there. yo, "they" have been pissed at us for decades. and they haven't killed you or me yet. i don't think you need to worry about it. less than 5,000 people died in the wtc. but u.s. sactions have killed 5 million in iraq... what's worse? can you blame people for hating the u.s.? like the neighbor senerio someone used above, only we fucked them over first. that's the part your missing, they didn't just blow up the pentagon for no reason. Originally posted by richard kyel if it was my choice i would have blown there whole fuckin country up. 99% of them cant think for themselves. ironically, you sound like 99% of brainwashed americans reguratating the shit bush et al. pours down your throat. i feel sorry for you... but there's still hope, just learn the facts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Luv Roo Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Originally posted by Tesseract Keep in mind that special forces soldiers, take pleasure on what they do. They're not your average joe and they're dying for some action. The only difference they have in comparison with a regular killer is that they are legal and manipulated, making them society-friendly. When it comes to regular soldiers, what can i say, i feel sorry for them but choices are choices. It seems that the US army is a mercenary army after all. Operating for interests that dont concern the people. Notice that echelon was and still is used mostly for industrial spying. You can't lump all soldiers, or all special forces soldiers into one category like that. It's showing just the kind of ignorance you are not so much in support of across america. I attended military school when I was 17, by choice, because of an ex-airborne ranger who helped raise me and taught me and my schoolmates army tactics, played paintball with us, taught us martial arts and swordfighting, and meditated and did yoga with us. He inspired me to learn this stuff that was basically just fun activities when you're a kid, but may come in handy for basic survival, even for painting - I approach the streets with much more awareness because of all the night training we did, and I learned how to anticipate situations, open my ears and eyes with more sensitivity towards my environment. I still am friends with this guy, and he has the most integrity that I know in a person - and the other wierd thing is that he does NOT like to talk about his ranger days....I think he had to do some fucked up shit, and that was when there was no 'official' war going on. Once we asked him if he saw anyone die, and he said yeah - but didn't go into it. I thought military school would be fun like what this guy taught me and my schoolmates, but it turned out to be a bit more frat-like, and wierd, and sometimes I wonder why the hell I chose to do it, but it was certainly an experience....maybe not all that great, but I also have a little empathy for your everyday soldier, not that I condone their public behavior and lack of manners and civility towards the people in hawaii... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Luv Roo Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Originally posted by patrickjilbert good point. i just find it hard to have a great deal of respect for one who does whatever the government says without question. I certainly don't defend stupid decisions, and I am no one to simply follow orders either...so I feel ya there. I think it may be the same reason why someone may put all their time and money into one of those ITT tech colleges that advertise - because they will get them to a point where they can maybe learn some skills and hopefully get a decent job. My cousin was in the division which repaired the vehicles, so she thought that she would have great training in car maintainence and repair and that when she got out she'd have a decent job - but unfortunately she couldn't find anything in that realm...so it doesn't always work out. I'd actually say that it almost never works out like they say in the recruitment commercials. The sept 11 and war that followed, to me, seems like a big scam, and one of the benefits, among many others, was that armed forces recruitment went WAY up on sept. 12th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HAL Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 I agree partially with what you're saying Patrick. At the same time, the US military employs millions of people. To say that they're all mindless drones is a little foolish. You sound like a smart guy, so you should realize that these are peope just like you and I, just a different decision about what they want to do with their life. Being in the army isn't an outlet to release bloodthirst. People want to learn some discipline. They want to stay out of trouble, and maybe even go to college. I think the military must be mostly kids that are poor as fuck and are more scared of living a life with no education or future than maybe dying in a war. Maybe it's a selfish goal, but man....when you're dead broke with no hope of ever making enough money to support your kid, let alone send him to college, the army looks great, even if you have to potentially die for something you don't believe in. I really don't think people join the military to kill people. I never heard on veteran ever rave about shooting someone. I seen a lot of them shed a lot of tears thinking about people they killed and friends that died. Someone willing to risk his life for a better future for his family or himself is a hero to me. I also think this "war on terror" is motivated by oil, land and capitalism. Even by the most skewed right wing thinking, the agression on the part of the middle east stems from our interference in their politics and way of life, to ensure that we get enough of their national resources to fuel our own economy. It's an amazing display of self interest and greed, but the cowards aren't regular people. It's politicians and the CEOs that push them to protect their interests. The dollar is the guilty party. I'm not talking about money to survive or send your kid to school, because that's the 20th century version of farming so your family can survive, but money to line already over-stuffed coffers. The guilty party is Rich White America, not blue collar america. You or I could have been in the military with a few small changes to the course of our youths. My pop could have lost his job and lost the house, and where would I be? My only opportunity to get a good job and succeed would be the army, where they'd pay for at least some of my college tuition. Tease, you really gotta get out of suburbia and see the real world. I get more and more disgusted with the way you just soak up the bourgouis lifestyle of upper class americans and think it "ain't no thang". The emphasis on all things material is disgusting. I don't think I'd buy an SUV of any size, even if I could afford it somehow. I'd be too ashamed of myself. The SUV is a symbol of everything fucked up about the United States. It's not the amount of gas it wastes, although that's a big factor, but the way it symbolizes american love of excess. Life is not a product to accessorize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickjilbert Posted February 25, 2002 Author Share Posted February 25, 2002 hal, it probably should have been presented differently. "I get more and more disgusted with the way you just soak up the bourgouis lifestyle of upper class americans and think it "ain't no thang". The emphasis on all things material is disgusting." ^ good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Luv Roo Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Originally posted by HAL Tease, you really gotta get out of suburbia and see the real world. I get more and more disgusted with the way you just soak up the bourgouis lifestyle of upper class americans and think it "ain't no thang". The emphasis on all things material is disgusting. I don't think I'd buy an SUV of any size, even if I could afford it somehow. I'd be too ashamed of myself. The SUV is a symbol of everything fucked up about the United States. It's not the amount of gas it wastes, although that's a big factor, but the way it symbolizes american love of excess. Life is not a product to accessorize. The other day at a light there was a Chevy Blazer from the 80's right next to a brand new 2000 model Blazer - it was unbelievable! the difference in size, the new one was probably more than twice of it's predecessor! My dad used his 80's Blazer to plow snow in the winters and it had plenty of power, so that was certainly adequate, and he still has it - But the newer sizes are too fucking excessive - what the size alone represents is shameful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jah Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Originally posted by patrickjilbert i was gonna come back to skate, but i think the police cleared out love park. i was gonna show you my new master p doll. when you squeeze him he says: " UUUUUGHHH! na na na na! " oh well. haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mental invalid Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 "Rumsfield defended the announcement of a new Defense Dept. office dedicated to, among other things, planting pro-American news stories overseas - stories, that is, which may or may not be true." um actually on the "meet the press" yesterday morning Rumsfield categorically denied all of these and was quite livid about halting any ideas that were in favor of such actions when the question was brought up...realize that the way modern media is set up, most of the US offices have offices in foreign lands or associations with foreign media outlets...now assuming that most are responsible journalists and will cross check references around the globe...the government would run the insane risk of being hammered and losing its credibility, i know i know it barely has any left as its is ...as far as GNN vs CNN go...you cant make either your source for media and news...its really easy to be a lazy media consumer.....im certainly at fault...i may read one newspaper and maybe a website and perhaps some hardball/meet the press...but if your really gonna be a socially responsible media critic then you really need to be aware of all aspects of mainstream and alternative medias...its not fucking easy and its a royal pain in the ass, but you cant really hammer rumsfield, or any other media topic without first hitting all the media and getting multiple sides of every story...and that is a full time job.... does anyone here deny that the taliban government was NOT oppresive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 I feel the need to clarify one thing. I aint saying that everysoldier is either bloodthirst or ignorant. And i really believe that 80 percent of these kids are kids like you and me. My point is that choices in life just work that way. You see, army is army, and the primary reason it exists is to fight wars. I dont wanna sound like a dick when i'm saying that but noone cant deny the fact that joining the army for anyreason can get you into trouble when all you tried to do is to avoid trouble, or get educated, preserve a higher quality of life for your self. There's no doubt that there's a problem with the education system when someone has to join the army in order to get educated. And that fact being presented as a cool reason to join the army is misleading and braiwashing at least. It surely raises issues about how things work in general. Bottom line, everyone has to cope with life but the way we do it has great importance. Options have their advantages and disadvantages. I can understand and respect needs but 'any means necessary' isnt something that makes you proud either justifies all your actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Luv Roo Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Originally posted by mental invalid does anyone here deny that the taliban government was NOT oppresive? huh? I hate those double negative questions...why deny it, you know they are/were. Does anyone here AGREE that the Taliban WAS oppressive? yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mental invalid Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 ...hmmm...perhpas i could have phrased it better, but the statement above is not a double negative... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mental invalid Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 oh and the reason i aske the question is cause for all the chatter about military strikes and the ground "war" and other tactics, does anyone of those critics feel that the taliban should have remained in power?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxcarwilly Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Re: lol Originally posted by Asid The only reason were fighting them is because our citizens wouldnt be able to handle it if we didnt...Our goverment could give a flying fuck less that Afghanistan is still killing their own citizens and using them and brainwashing them just like how America brainwashes 70% of their citizens its a fucking joke and so are the olympics... this is completely not true, althogh i do agree with the "please the plebian" attitude of it, i will say there is alot more than that to it. first off if you know your government and have been watching any news source there are a majority of experts who will vouch for the fact that the US government knew about it and chose not to do a God damn thing, would this be anything new? fuck no. the us government has no respect for human life, American citizen or foriegn. need i bring up the tuskegee airmen, need i bring up "mosquito spraying" on long island in which millions of women have been afflicted with breast cancer, need i bring up agent orange tests within closed communities in the early fifties... there is no respect for human life. in my mind the minute those planes tragically flew into the WTC it screamed inside job, tho i couldnt possibly concieve of the motive at the time. and the supporting evidence that keeps being released affirms that thought. whether it was our "men" directly or indirectly involved this was a move to "start a war" to express our imperialistic oil thieving hands to more countries than we already have. ***tho i may say that oil is a major surface cause for all the actions that transpire, i feel it is deeper, if the whole world is under the US's thumb guess what... NWO. yay. Originally posted by mental invalid does anyone here deny that the taliban government was NOT oppresive? do i agree with the Taliban government, NO. do i think they shouldve remained in power? this gets arduous and long, i believe that sooner or later in the goodness of humanity that sometimes exists, the power balance in Afghanistan would have been restored. i do NOT agree with American forces being involved in any other country except ours, i fully belive in a form of isolationism, i think that the US should not be dipping its hands in foriegn oil, we should learn ways to use our own resources feed our homeless and educate our population (to some extent) and until we have the "perfect" running country we should stay the fuck out. but capitalism drives our country not our government... so will this ever happen no. **** i do not pretend to know everything that happens, or expect everyone to think i am right, these posts tend to become a form of debate, and unlike many others who attempt to sway opinion i try to use documented and agreeable fact to prove my theories, as any debate would. i dont pull things out of the air, and i do filter my news. i watch cnn and i also read infoshop i take what makes sense in a logical working order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Dazzle Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Originally posted by patrickjilbert i believe that fighting against the nazis and british was great (although i know ww2 wasn't perfect). we got rid of racist maniacs and gained our independence. all sounds great. Excuse me?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last slave Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 theres no question that US (like every other country) does shady shit. but alot of what's said on here is always one-sided. anyways we can argue about what our country does and how wrong we are but at the end of the day we are the ones that benefit from it. Not saying that bullying other countries is right but if we didn't we probably wouldn't have some of the luxuries we have. Honestly, how many of you would bitch if god forbid the price of gas goes up a penny or some sweatshop gets closed down and causes you not to get your brand new sneakers before the first day of school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iCEBERG Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 either or when all is said and done afgahnastin will be better off then they were before we stepped in. period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickjilbert Posted February 25, 2002 Author Share Posted February 25, 2002 i, for one, would sacrafice nearly all my 'luxurues' for a government that wasn't so fucked up. but then again, those who would aren't in the majority. and as for the americans who are trying to better themselves by joining the military.... that's hard to say whether they were right regardless. they're STILL supporting our government and military by joining, although i somewhat understand their position. doesn't make it right though. whether they want to kill or not, they're still fuel for the machine. "i don't care if all of those camel jockies die as long as i get cheaper oil. huh hah!" - upper class america regarding his mercedes SUV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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