Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

  1. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum...
    You are currently logged out and viewing our forum as a guest which only allows limited access to our discussions, photos and other forum features. If you are a 12ozProphet Member please login to get the full experience.

    If you are not a 12ozProphet Member, please take a moment to register to gain full access to our website and all of its features. As a 12ozProphet Member you will be able to post comments, start discussions, communicate privately with other members and access members-only content. Registration is fast, simple and free, so join today and be a part of the largest and longest running Graffiti, Art, Style & Culture forum online.

    Please note, if you are a 12ozProphet Member and are locked out of your account, you can recover your account using the 'lost password' link in the login form. If you no longer have access to the email you registered with, please email us at [email protected] and we'll help you recover your account. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum (and don't forget to follow @12ozprophet in Instagram)!

Jihadi Turns Bulldog

Discussion in 'News' started by 2342, May 24, 2006.

  1. 2342

    2342 Junior Member

    Joined: Aug 19, 2005 Messages: 208 Likes Received: 1
    I just came across this article today- apparently I must have been asleep as this is the first time I have heard about this. Anyway- I was wondering if anyone here had an opinion as to how they feel about Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi- i.e. his background and his educational background- and him being accepted into Yale.

    I will simply post what I have found- I am not taking sides.

    Jihadi Turns Bulldog
    The Taliban's former spokesman is now a Yale student. Anyone see a problem with that?

    Monday, February 27, 200612:01 a.m. EST
    Never has an article made me blink with astonishment as much as when I read in yesterday's New York Times magazine that Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi, former ambassador-at-large for the Taliban, is now studying at Yale on a U.S. student visa. This is taking the obsession that U.S. universities have with promoting diversity a bit too far.

    Something is very wrong at our elite universities. Last week Larry Summers resigned as president of Harvard when it became clear he would lose a no-confidence vote held by politically correct faculty members furious at his efforts to allow ROTC on campus, his opposition to a drive to have Harvard divest itself of corporate investments in Israel, and his efforts to make professors work harder. Now Yale is giving a first-class education to an erstwhile high official in one of the most evil regimes of the latter half of the 20th century--the government that harbored the terrorists who attacked America on Sept. 11, 2001.
    "In some ways," Mr. Rahmatullah told the New York Times. "I'm the luckiest person in the world. I could have ended up in GuantanamoBay. Instead I ended up at Yale." One of the courses he has taken is called Terrorism-Past, Present and Future.

    Many foreign readers of the Times will no doubt snicker at the revelation that naive Yale administrators scrambled to admit Mr. Rahmatullah. The Times reported that Yale "had another foreigner of Rahmatullah's caliber apply for special-student status." Richard Shaw, Yale's dean of undergraduate admissions, told the Times that "we lost him to Harvard," and "I didn't want that to happen again."

    In the spring of 2001, I was one of several writers at The Wall Street Journal who interviewed Mr. Rahmatullah at our offices across the street from the WorldTradeCenter. His official title was second foreign secretary; his mission was to explain the regime's decision to rid the country of two 1,000-year-old towering statues of Buddha carved out of rock 90 miles from the Afghan capital, Kabul. The archeological treasures were considered the greatest remaining examples of third- and fifth-century Greco-Indian art in the world. But Taliban leader Mullah Omar had ordered all statues in the country destroyed, calling them idols of infidels and repugnant to Islam.

    Even Muslim nations like Pakistan denounced the move. Mr. Rahmatullah, who at the time claimed to be 24 but now says he was lying about his age and was actually two years younger, cut a curious figure in our office. He wore a traditional Afghan turban and white baggy pants and sported a full beard. His English, while sometimes elliptical, was smooth and colloquial. He made himself very clear when he said the West had no business worrying about the statues, because it had cut off trade and foreign aid to the Taliban. "When the world destroys the future of our children with economic sanctions, they have no right to worry about our past," he told us, according to my notes from the meeting.

    He smiled as he informed us that the statues had been blown up with explosive charges only after people living nearby had been removed. He had no comment on reports that Mullah Omar had ordered 100 cows be sacrificed as atonement for the Taliban government's failure to destroy the Buddhas earlier.
    As for Osama bin Laden, Mr. Rahmatullah called the Saudi fugitive a "guest" of his government and said it hadn't been proved that bin Laden was linked to any terrorist acts, despite his indictment in the U.S. for planning the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. He said that if the embassy bombings were terrorist acts, then so was the Clinton administration's firing cruise missiles into his country in an attempt to kill bin Laden. "You killed 19 innocent people," he told us.

    After the meeting I walked him out. I vividly recall our stopping at a window as he stared up at the WorldTradeCenter. We stood there for a minute chatting, but I don't recall what he said. He then left. I next thought about him a few months later, on Sept. 11, as I stood outside our office building covered in dust and debris staring at the remains of the towers that had just collapsed. I occasionally wondered what had happened to Mr. Rahmatullah. I assumed he either had died in the collapse of the Taliban regime, had been jailed, or was living quietly in the new, democratic Afghanistan.

    From newspaper clips I knew that his visit to the Journal's offices was part of a PR tour. He visited other newspapers and spoke at universities, and the State Department had granted him a meeting with midlevel officials. None of the meetings went particularly well. At the University of Southern California, Mr. Rahmatullah expressed irritation with a question about statues that at that point hadn't yet been blown up. "You know, really, I am asked so much about these statues that I have a headache now," he moaned. "If I go back to Afghanistan, I will blow them."

    Carina Chocano, a writer for Salon.com who attended several of his speeches in the U.S., noted the hostility of many of his audiences. "A lesser publicist might have melted down," she wrote. "But the cool, unruffled and media-smart Hashemi instead spun his story into a contemporary parable of ironic iconoclasm," peppering his lectures with "statue jokes."

    But sometimes his humor really backfired. At a speech for the Atlantic Council, Mr. Rahmatullah was confronted by a woman in the audience who lifted the burkha she was wearing and chastised him for the Taliban's infamous treatment of women. "You have imprisoned the women--it's a horror, let me tell you," she cried. Mr. Rahmatullah responded with a sneer: "I'm really sorry to your husband. He might have a very difficult time with you."

    A videotape of his cutting remark became part of Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11," and infuriated the likes of Mavis Leno, wife of "Tonight Show" host Jay Leno. Mrs. Leno helped found the Feminist Majority's Campaign to Stop Gender Apartheid in Afghanistan and devoted countless hours to focusing public attention on the plight of Afghanistan's women and girls. "I will never, ever abandon these women," she often said before the Taliban's overthrow. Here's hoping she has saved some of her outrage for Yale's decision to welcome Mr. Rahmatullah with open arms.

    In his interview with the New York Times, Mr. Rahmatullah, said that if he had to do it all over, he would have been less "antagonistic" in his remarks during his U.S. road tour. "I regret the way I spoke sometimes. Now I would try to be softer. A little bit." Just a little?

    Today, when he is asked if Afghanistan would be better off if the Taliban were still in charge, Mr. Rahmatullah, has a mixed answer: "Economically, no. In terms of security, yes. In terms of general happiness, no. In the long-term interests of the country? I don't think so. I think the radicals were taking over and doing crazy stuff. I regret when people think of the Taliban and then think of me--that feeling people have after they know I was affiliated with them is painful to me." Note that the government official who represented the Taliban abroad now claims to have been only "affiliated" with them.

    Even though he evinces only semiregret for his actions in service to the Taliban, there is evidence that he has become quite a charmer. After the fall of the Taliban, he resumed a friendship he had developed with Mike Hoover, a CBS News cameraman who, according to a 2001 Associated Press story, had visited Afghanistan three times as a guest of the Taliban. Mr. Hoover inspired Mr. Rahmatullah to think about going to the U.S. to finish his studies. "I thought he could do a lot as a student/teacher," said Mr. Hoover. He persuaded Bob Schuster, an attorney friend of his from Wyoming who had gone to Yale, to help out. As the Times reported, "Schuster called the provost's office to ask how an ex-Taliban envoy with a fourth-grade education and a high-school equivalency degree might go about applying to one of the world's top universities."

    Intrigued by Mr. Rahmatullah, Dean Shaw arranged for his admission into a nondegree program for special students. He apparently has done well, so far pulling down a 3.33 grade-point average.

    There is something to be said for the instinct to reach out to one's former enemies. America's postwar reconciliation with the Japanese and Germans has paid great dividends. But there are limits.
    During a trip to Germany I once ran into a relative of Hans Fritsche, the top deputy to Josef Goebbels, whom the Guardian, a British newspaper, once described as "the Nazi Propaganda Minister's leading radio spokesman [whose] commentaries were among the main items of German home and foreign broadcasting." After the war he was tried as a war criminal at Nuremberg, but because he had only given hate-filled speeches, he was acquitted of all charges in 1946. In the early 1950s, he applied for a visa to visit the U.S. and explain his regret at having served an evil regime. He was turned down, to the everlasting regret of the relative with whom I spoke. She noted that Albert Speer, Hitler's former architect, was also turned down for a U.S. visa even after he had completed a 20-year prison sentence and had written a best-selling book detailing Hitler's madness.

    I don't believe Mr. Rahmatullah had direct knowledge of the 9/11 plot, and I don't think he has ever killed anyone. I can appreciate that he is trying to rebuild his life. But he willingly and cheerfully served an evil regime in a manner that would have made Goebbels proud. That he was 22 at the time is little of an excuse. There are many poor, bright students--American and foreign alike--who would jump at the opportunity to attend Yale. Why should Mr. Rahmatullah go to the line ahead of all of them? That's a question Yale alumni should ask when their alma mater comes looking for contributions.

    President Bush, who already has a well-known disdain for Yale elitism from his student days there, may also have some questions. In the wake of his being blindsided by his own administration over the Dubai port deal, he should be interested in finding out exactly who at the State Department approved Mr. Rahmatullah's application for a student visa.
     
  2. CACashRefund

    CACashRefund 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Oct 8, 2004 Messages: 14,171 Likes Received: 272
    i remember this guy, that comment was pretty funny

    let him study, why not
     
  3. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 621
    i don't care if he studies here.
    it won't be the first time muslim militants have gone to a university in the states.

    but yknow, it works the other way too....


    Leading Muslim Scholar Tariq Ramadan Denied U.S. Visa to Teach at Notre Dame

    The U.S. Government revoked a work visa for Tariq Ramadan, one of the world's most important Muslim scholars, to teach at the University of Notre Dame. We go to Switzerland to speak with Tariq Ramadan and we hear from the director of the Institute for International Peace Studies at Notre Dame that appointed Ramadan. The United States has denied entry to one of one of Europe's most influential Islamic thinkers.

    Tariq Ramadan, a Swiss scholar known for his work on Islamic theology and the place of Muslims in the modern world, was appointed to teach Islamic philosophy and ethics at the University of Notre Dame. He received a visa from the State Department and was scheduled to start his classes in late August. But just days before he was set to travel, his visa was revoked without explanation at the behest of the Department of Homeland Security.

    It turns out Ramadan was barred under a section of the Patriot Act, which bars entry to foreigners who have used a "position of prominence . . . to endorse or espouse terrorist activity."

    www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/13/1428249

    ...Such actions also upend people's lives and taint their reputations. With a visa in hand in 2004, Ramadan had given up his teaching post in Geneva, sold his home, and packed his family for Indiana when he got the news. Put under a cloud by the US, he was later asked by British Prime Minister Tony Blair to serve on a task force after the London bombings.


    .....
    and other people who get caught up in this shit for no reason..


    USA: Bolivian Historian Denied Visa

    Dr Waskar Ari was hired by the University of Nebraska to teach Latin American History. His post was supposed to have started in August 2005, but he has been unable to take it up because the US federal government has withheld his visa. The State Department has given no reasoning behind the delay the American Association for the Advancement of Science informs.

    Although Dr. Ari submitted an expedited visa application in June 2005, over nine months later his visa is still listed as "pending." The university says it has not received any explanation from either the Department of Homeland Security or the Bureau of Consular Affairs.

    In the meantime, his existing student visa has been cancelled. Asked about the situation, a spokeswoman at the State Department's Bureau of Consular Affairs checked Mr. Ari's file and said the cancellation of his old visa was done under a terrorism-related section of US legislation on the granting of visas. "We have derogatory information that renders him ineligible," she said, but declined to add any further information.

    Ari is a moderate, yet some surmise his support for indigenous rights may be an issue. Or he may be a victim of current politics, with the leftist Bolivian president, Evo Morales, on the outs with Washington.

    .......................

    In other examples from 2005, Dora Maria Tellez, a former government health minister in Nicaragua, was denied a visa after being invited to teach at Harvard University; 60 Cuban scholars were kept from a conference in Puerto Rico.

    In February, two prominent scientists from India, insulted by what they felt was disrespectful treatment in the visa process, said they no longer wish to come here.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0511/p14s02-legn.html
     
  4. HardyHarHar

    HardyHarHar Senior Member

    Joined: May 14, 2006 Messages: 1,517 Likes Received: 1
    I think it's a very good thing that he was accepted to Yale. It's a positive thing to accept someone from another culture and learn to understand that culture. Jihadists have a real stigma here in the US, but there are criminals all over the world who commit the same kind of attrocities. I think it's an important step for us to learn about Jihadists and for Jihadists to learn about the U.S.
     
  5. coffeedependency

    coffeedependency Senior Member

    Joined: Oct 8, 2004 Messages: 1,202 Likes Received: 0
    that sounded like a load of shit.^^
    but i dun give a fuuuuck if he studies at yale.
    dude would be at 4.0 if he weren't staying up until 4am working on his bombs and shit.
    (true true..)
     
  6. Dawood

    Dawood Elite Member

    Joined: May 8, 2002 Messages: 4,677 Likes Received: 146
    stop sweating the brother, let him get his learn on, chief!
     
  7. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    this guy's probably in skull and bones
     
  8. fermentor666

    fermentor666 Veteran Member

    Joined: Sep 27, 2003 Messages: 8,152 Likes Received: 15
    I hope he burns in hell.
     
  9. Dawood

    Dawood Elite Member

    Joined: May 8, 2002 Messages: 4,677 Likes Received: 146
    I hope you have better hopes.
     
  10. fermentor666

    fermentor666 Veteran Member

    Joined: Sep 27, 2003 Messages: 8,152 Likes Received: 15
    I do, but I can't support a guy who likes to blow up archeological relics to get back at the UN or believes that women who speak out against abuse are burdens on their husbands. And of course, I don't believe hell, but that guy fits the notion. It's not so much that he just believes in those sort of things, but that he promoted it to masses of people. And I think it's sick that the people Symbols posted about aren't allowed into this country when they could give so much to the students and the Scott McClellan of the Taliban somehow has the right to an Ivy League education. Who knows, maybe it's all part of the Bush plan to start a holy war so that the Rapture can finally happen. You know, the guy gets jumped by a bunch of Connecticut yahoos and it can only fuel the fire already burning (smells like American flags to me...).
     
  11. lord_casek

    lord_casek 12oz Royalty

    Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Messages: 27,078 Likes Received: 1,007
  12. lord_casek

    lord_casek 12oz Royalty

    Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Messages: 27,078 Likes Received: 1,007
    from jim sleepr's letter to the wall street journal:


    "And why don’t you look a little more deeply than you did into the provenance and motives of Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi’s patron Mike Hoover, who commended him to Yale's admissions office? Why don’t you ask if Rahmatullah's enrollment was facilitated less by the "diversity" ethos than by yet another of Yale conservatives' recent, bumbling efforts to revive the university's old conduit to national intelligence and to framing grandiose "grand strategies"? Because I myself don’t know the answers to the two questions I’ve just posed, I wish I could rely on you to be "on the trail," as your column moniker puts it, of the truth rather than of the enemies du jour of your predictable Party line."


    http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ed...les/2006/03/13/educating_the_taliban_at_yale/
    boston globe article


    follow up
    http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110008082


    rebuttal from mr. fund
    http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110008051






    photographer who steered Rahmattullah
    towards yale has intelligence ties
    http://outside.away.com/outside/magazine/0296/9602fsur.html


     
    Last edited: May 29, 2006
  13. The Man with the Answers

    The Man with the Answers Member

    Joined: Apr 8, 2006 Messages: 781 Likes Received: 2
    I can't read the small black font, sorry
     
  14. fermentor666

    fermentor666 Veteran Member

    Joined: Sep 27, 2003 Messages: 8,152 Likes Received: 15
  15. lord_casek

    lord_casek 12oz Royalty

    Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Messages: 27,078 Likes Received: 1,007
    it's really funny, if you research back far enough,
    the central intel agency has many many connections
    with al-qaeda, taliban, etc.

    funding terrorism is nothing new to these people.
    educating them is one of the things they do so well.
     
Top