Globalizing the Globe

[lord_casek]

the north american union is a pretty big reality, menino.

in the midwest the businesses are being made to get north

american union business licenses.

there are already nau roads (trans-texas/trans-american corridor),

texas has already sold out alot of their major their roads to the king of spain.

 

i could go on. PNAC.gov is a good starting point.

 

i'm gonna let you sift through that before i start whipping out more stuff.

i don't think bombardment is the right way to approach this.

 

this should be a good discussion, though. let's try and keep out of the insult arena, etc.

and discuss it like gentlemen.

 

back to working on getting the phonemes set up for this damn facial animation crap.

 

 

btw: juan is a good guy. he's educated. his english is progressing and sometimes i don't

think his words (typing) come out the best, but his mind is on the right track.

[lord_casek]

menino: i thought i might support my claim with a little more.

 

http://www.spp.gov/prosperity_working/index.asp?dName=prosperity_working

http://www.spp.gov/report_to_leaders/index.asp?dName=report_to_leaders

http://www.cfr.org/publication/8102/building_a_north_american_community.html

 

 

[MayorMeanBeans]

fair enough. my bad fuentes. i blew a fuse when you told me to pay attention.

 

I know all about PNAC. But the first thing is. its not pnac.gov. PNAC is the source of neo-conservatism, its a think tank.

 

I also understand that their line of thinking greatly influenced Bush etc, and he chose to line his cabinet with their propagators. i saw their powerpoint presentation called something like, "the way forward" or some shit like that, that led bush to believe that the surge would work. i refuse to believe however that their influence is going to extend pass 2008. If the democrats had grown a bigger set, and had been willing to take the political hit, they would have no influence right now. Instead, they're unwilling to have a united front etc etc, and are afraid of being on the wrong side.

 

Believe me when i say i know all about their line of thinking. The height of their influence can be seen in the book is "Power, Terror, Peace, and War" by Walter Russell Mead. The main danger of neoconversatism isn't their emphasis on military realist calculations. Instead, it is their steadfastness in Wilsonianism, the foreign policy of Woodrow Wilson. Its Idealism to the point of madness, that the only way the world can get better is through them. Furthermore, this ideology has a key condition that we are liberators, not agitators. I believe that in this age globalization is more of a liberator than anything else (just th eother day, i saw an extension for mozilla that enables people in countries that censor the internet to bypass it. Thats America Radio on steroids.

 

The North America Union is an allusion to the EU. There are numerous differences howver: 1. America would never allow an EU type border arrangement. The EU goes apeshit over integrating Eastern Europe and Turkey etc. Imagine Americans reacting to an open border with Mexico?

 

2. Yes there are international highways. I'm not getting what the negative political implications are of better infrastructure along economic highways...

 

3. Could i see a link about Texas selling its roads to the King of Spain? did you mean the construction of such roads? The maintenance? Also, regarding these businesses that are getting the licenses for the NAU, are they the license to export to canada and mexico?

 

When I said that the NAU was a hypothetical situation, i was referring to it as a political entity. Economic integration has been a key aspect of American policy for decades.

[MayorMeanBeans]

I just checked out the Safety and Prosperity PArtnership website. I quickly went to their myths/facts website. choose to believe whatever, but this is what they're saying (selections:

 

 

Myth:The SPP is a movement to merge the United States, Mexico, and Canada into a North American Union and establish a common currency.

Fact: The cooperative efforts under the SPP, which can be found in detail at www.spp.gov, seek to make the United States, Canada and Mexico open to legitimate trade and closed to terrorism and crime. It does not change our courts or legislative processes and respects the sovereignty of the United States, Mexico, and Canada. The SPP in no way, shape or form considers the creation of a European Union-like structure or a common currency. The SPP does not attempt to modify our sovereignty or currency or change the American system of government designed by our Founding Fathers.

 

.

Myth: The SPP infringes on the sovereignty of the United States.

Fact: The SPP respects and leaves the unique cultural and legal framework of each of the three countries intact. Nothing in the SPP undermines the U.S. Constitution. In no way does the SPP infringe upon the sovereignty of the United States.

 

 

 

Myth: The SPP is meant to deal with immigration reform and trade disputes.

Fact: Immigration reform is a legislative matter currently being debated in Congress and is not being dealt with in the SPP. Likewise, trade disputes between the United States, Canada, and Mexico are resolved in the NAFTA and WTO mechanisms and not the SPP.

 

 

Myth: The SPP will result in the loss of American jobs.

Fact: The SPP seeks to create jobs by reducing transaction costs and unnecessary burdens for U.S. companies, which will bolster the competitiveness of our firms globally. These efforts will help U.S. manufacturers, spur job creation, and benefit consumers.

 

-(i stuck this one in because its absolute bullshit. reduced transaction cost is fancy talk for downsizing.)

 

 

Myth:The SPP creates a NAFTA-plus legal status between the three countries.

Fact:The SPP does not seek to rewrite or renegotiate NAFTA. It creates no NAFTA-plus legal status.

[lord_casek]

CENTRA is the king of spains company. they are being handed many major roads (i believe the trans-texas corridor will be in their control.

\unlicensed in our country, mexican drivers will be bringing cargo through our country on our roads. first checkpoint is in kansas city, ks.

 

as you can see, both reasons have many negative implications.

 

got work to do on some 3d. i'll be back and forth for a bit.

[lord_casek]

menino: the z-visa is what's going to wreck our country. that spp.gov site does alot of double speaking

[MayorMeanBeans]

Again, can i havea link? is it toll maintenance? border crossings? what you're sayign is that there will be no border, which is contrary to everything that the furor in congress is over. i have heard of the truck drivers getting the expedited border cross, but i believe that they still have to deal with weighing stations.

[lord_casek]

Again, can i havea link? is it toll maintenance? border crossings? what you're sayign is that there will be no border, which is contrary to everything that the furor in congress is over. i have heard of the truck drivers getting the expedited border cross, but i believe that they still have to deal with weighing stations.

 

sure thing, you'll ahve to excuse me, i'm working diligently and multi-tasking

 

http://www.motherjones.com/cgi-bin/print_article.pl?url=http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/01/highwaymen.html

 

 

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/7/15/220053.shtml?s=ic

 

 

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=20963

 

 

http://www.jbs.org/node/4022

 

 

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52164

 

 

http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_4468.shtml

 

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52186

[MayorMeanBeans]

in terms of the z-visa, im not sure whats going to happen with that. on the one hand, i see how people say it amounts to an "amnesty visa", on the other hand. this provision that the news sites are calling the "touchback provision" seems to keep the power in america's hands.

From a personally pro-immigration standpoint (i dont think its morally acceptable for the us, considering the disparities of wealth between the third world and ours, for us to keep them out because we like "our way of life", but thats another point), im not sure hwo this is going to play itself out. but i will say this, one of the only smart things biden said the other night. How in hell are we gonna give 12 million people Z-visas, expect them to touchback etc.? its just not going to happen. Cynics say this strongarms America, but i dont agree. It only applies to people here before January 1st, 2007, it assumes that all of the workers want to stay (i think at times, this is a problematic assumption, from personal experience traveling in El Salvador).

[lord_casek]

no, it's retroactive.

that means that 23 million people (check your statistics) who committed a crime (crossing our borders)

will get to be in this country for free while people who appraoch it the legal way have to wait like chumps.

 

the other thing, i've brought this up many times, illegals only spend 40% of their earnings here. sending the other 60% back home. 80% are from mexico, so...mexico it goes back to.

 

the worst thing is that citibank and several other "entities" are helping illegals out by giving them free bank accounts (don't ahve to show id) while we ahve to jump through hoops to get an account. so many reason, menino. so many.

 

i could rant forever and give you reasons, links, etc. fact is, i'm still sick with a sinus infection. took some benedryl and my antibiotics, so i'm feeling kinda loopy and not up to my best par for countering stuff. i'm trying, though.

[MayorMeanBeans]

sure thing, you'll ahve to excuse me, i'm working diligently and multi-tasking

[/url]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52186

 

i checked out this website, and we can't fail to note their agenda as well (i put quotations on the quotes, the lines below are my reaction):

 

" At the recent high-level confab of the North American Forum in Banff, an assistant U.S. secretary of state chaired a panel that featured a presentation by Prof. Robert Pastor, author of a book promoting the development of a North American union as a regional government and the adoption of the amero as a common monetary currency to replace the dollar and the peso."

 

- Already, this seems like the plugging of a book. but i really want to emphasize the context of this meeting. The EU has been remarkably successful in everything it has set to do. Why is it wrong for the US and its neighbors to see if they can benefit from a similar arrangement?

 

"The State Department told WND Shannon was not endorsing Pastor's comments, yet the agency has no intention of making public Shannon's comments on the panel, nor Pastor's speech."

 

- Ok. So he wasn't endorsing the views. This article has a peculiar way of dismissing this assertation however, by saying "we have no intention of making such statements public." Why?

1. Pastor is not a political figure.

2. Even if Shannon did say something, it doesn't reflect the State Dept.

 

"The North American Forum is a shell organization with no officer or business address, consisting of the three individuals who co-chaired the Banff meeting: George Schultz, former secretary of state under President Reagan; Canadian Peter Lougheed, the former Alberta premier and former leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of Alberta; and Mexico's Pedro Aspe, the former secretary of the Treasury of Mexico."

 

- By a shell organization, does it really mean to say that these guys correspond by email from their homes? They live in three different countries. I feel like this is a blind attack, damned if you do, damned if you don't. If they did have an office they would be slammed for such a reason. Since they don't, its a shell.

 

And then the bombshell:

 

"For a comprehensive look at the U.S. government's plan to integrate the U.S., Mexico and Canada into a North American super-state – guided by the powerful but secretive Council on Foreign Relations – read "ALIEN NATION: SECRETS OF THE INVASION," a special edition of WND's acclaimed monthly Whistleblower magazine."

 

I clicked on Whistleblower, and some of the lead stories in their magazine are the following:

 

" HYSTERIA: Exposing the secret agenda behind today's obsession with global warming"

 

" SCARY MEDICINE: Exposing the dark side of vaccines"

 

"THE MIRACLE OF THE BIBLE"

 

" WHY HOLLYWOOD IS INSANE"

 

And my personal favorites:

 

" THE PROBLEM WITH ISLAM: And what Americans can do about it"

 

" THE WAR ON FATHERS: How the 'feminization of America' destroys boys, men – and women"

 

" SUPREME FRAUD: Unmasking Roe v Wade, America's most outrageous judicial decision"

 

Im sorry, but im hesitant to buy into this stuff....

[lord_casek]

menino: you've got to realize that i am only posting that because corsi writes for them.

WND is a conservative site. conservative views on abortion, etc.

 

dr. corsi is a smart individual. i don't agree with everything he says, but i do agree with alot.

 

john birch society is even more conservative.

[MayorMeanBeans]

no, it's retroactive.

that means that 23 million people (check your statistics) who committed a crime (crossing our borders)

will get to be in this country for free while people who appraoch it the legal way have to wait like chumps.

 

the other thing, i've brought this up many times, illegals only spend 40% of their earnings here. sending the other 60% back home. 80% are from mexico, so...mexico it goes back to.

 

the worst thing is that citibank and several other "entities" are helping illegals out by giving them free bank accounts (don't ahve to show id) while we ahve to jump through hoops to get an account. so many reason, menino. so many.

 

i could rant forever and give you reasons, links, etc. fact is, i'm still sick with a sinus infection. took some benedryl and my antibiotics, so i'm feeling kinda loopy and not up to my best par for countering stuff. i'm trying, though.

 

sorry i was writing a response and didn't see this-

 

there are no statistics for illegal immigration- they say 12-20 million, i went low, you went high, lets agree on 16.

 

i agree with you that its bullshit that they think they have the nerve to bypass legal considerations, but also i sympathize. i have personal experience with ins, and that shit is a bitch, and if you have hungry kids, you gotta move.

 

i also agree with you wholeheartedly that most of the money goes back, men trying to help families. But this is a misleading point- the reason why big business likes the illegals so much is the cheap labor. so when you talk about earnings incurred from illegal workers, you also have to consider the profits of the business that uses them. im inclined to believe that the profits of the businesses that hire illegals is more than 60 percent of the 3.50 an hour that they pay illegals (or else our economy would literally collapse).

 

also, that money that goes back, often goes to buy american goods. American corn for example, is a good example of how free trade forces immigration because people in other countries buy the cheaper product in this case, american corn.

[lord_casek]

CINTRA not CENTRA

my bad.

 

http://www.texascattleraisers.org/newsDesk/trans_Texas_corridor__TTC_TSCRA_2005_cattle.asp

 

http://www.txfb.org/TexasAgriculture/2005/031805/031805TTCpart3.htm

 

http://www.texastollparty.com/ttp_trans_texas.php

 

good resources to learn how this shit is going to affect our people.

[lord_casek]

yeah, there aren't official statistics, but 12 million came from an estimate in what? '02?

 

we'll go with 16 as you suggested.

[MayorMeanBeans]

yeah im reading the mother jones article. I'm not so sure this is NWO like though. This is what i think Binderberger and such are about. However, they're expecting an 11 billion dollar return on a 3.8 billion dollar investment, over 75 years. In terms of goldman sachs money, thats not that much money, especially assuming a 3 percent inflation rate.

 

I personally disagree with this, but i don't agree with the "need" for small govt. i want a govt that has universal health care. living in canada, not even a citizen, when i had to go to the er, i was covered, and they cared about my health care. i don't think that that is a waste of money. Therefore, this is more of an argument of political persuasion, not something indicative of halliburton or enron.

[MayorMeanBeans]

http://www.txfb.org/TexasAgriculture/2005/031805/031805TTCpart3.htm

 

this is the article that talks about the Farm Bureaus opposition. I think thats understandable. when the SPP talks about "reducing transaction costs", what they are really talking about is getting cheaper shit from the south than from the capital intensive ranchs of texas. im not surprised that they're opposed. i would be.

 

But again, this is more political persuasion rather than new world order. people who are going to be adversely affected are goign to oppose it. those who will benefit, support it.

[lord_casek]

let me ask you a few questions:

what would make the bilderburgers close their meetings to press and try to stay a secret?

 

it wasn't so many years ago that people would deny such an organization even existed.

i've seen people get laughed at on the news for saying anything about the bilderburgers.

tin foil hat alert.

 

and yet they have been meeting for over 50 years.

 

what would make 150 of the worlds most powerful people meet once a year in secret?

 

i need to find the minutes of a bilderburg meeting...

 

ok, here is some reading for you.

http://www.schnews.org.uk/bilderberg/bilderberg.html

 

 

 

and on that note, i bid you all goodnight (unless i can't sleep)

[THELASTKILLA!!!]

I would just like to say that you have to look at these things in different degrees. although globalization, the wto, NAFTA, etc. may no tbe the direct manifistation af some apocalyptic NWO conspiracy, one cannot deny the detrimental efffects theses treaties and organizations have had on many, many, indigenous groups. Globalization is, in my humble opinion, the leading cause of poverty and starvation. In this sense it can be seen as a manifestation of a NWO, one where the minority way of life is put before the majority.I love bumper stickers because they are always on point...

THINK GLOBALLY, ACT LOCALLY!!

[MayorMeanBeans]

yeah im about to pass out my brain is ceasing to work. what im going to listen to as i pass out, its pretty interesting so far:

 

Panel 2: Piracy and Terrorism in Asia |[url=http://www.csis.org/media/csis/events/070306_nontrad_2.m3u][/url] (mp3, 1:06:14) http://www.csis.org/media/csis/events/070306_nontrad_2.m3u thats the link to the audio. its about piracy in indonesia and the malaka straits. (completely off topic

[Stereotype V.0002]

Globalization is, in my humble opinion, the leading cause of poverty and starvation.

 

"Spectacular growth in China and India has pushed the number of people around the world living on less than a dollar a day below the 1 billion level

 

Reporting an 80-million drop in extreme poverty in the two years to 2004, the Bank said the improvement was entirely due to the rapid expansion in Asia's two most populous countries"

 

And a 3rd world region that hasn't jumped on the globalization train?

 

"In sub-Saharan Africa, extreme poverty had risen by 60 million, the Bank said, adding that there were now serious doubts about the region's ability to meet the United Nations goal of halving the number of people in poverty by 2015."

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,,2058102,00.html

[THELASTKILLA!!!]

from the same article..."The report found that in the past decade growth has not always guaranteed a reduction in poverty, with poor people failing to reap the fruits of economic expansion due to a lack of job opportunities, limited education or bad health"

 

i must point out that the artile used data from the world bank and they(WB) will obviously not make any statements revealing the true effects of their policies.

the stats on china and india may be true but these are developing (not "third" world)countries and the people probably have more access to information and opportunities than people in poorer nations. at the same time rising from 99 ents a day to 1.01$ is not that much of a gain...i know you gotta start somewhere but could you live on 2 bucks a day??????

[Stereotype V.0002]

I’m definitely not saying globalization completely eradicates poverty, but opening large businesses in “developing” countries creates jobs where they greatly increase their income compared to where they used to work, if they used to work. If you pour money into a country that country’s infrastructure, schools health care etc, is going to naturally improve. The statistics of how many people are lifted out of poverty in countries where globalization has taken off really speak for themselves, especially when compared to the poverty increases in places where it hasn’t. Now on the other hand if you can’t handle that you can easily say all of those numbers (which you can find on google from many different sources for every ‘developing’/third world shithole) are part of the jewish banker new world order conspiracy, or that all of the people are only just increasing their income by one cent.

 

i know you gotta start somewhere but could you live on 2 bucks a day??????

 

That entirely depends on what the cost of living expenses are for the country where I’m making that 2 dollars a day. As you may know, America has higher living expenses which is reflected by our higher average income. And if you personally lived in Cambodia and your previous income was 20 cents a day, I think you would overcome your objection to being exploited by the corporate capitalist fat cats and go for that 2 dollar a day pay check.

[lord_casek]

http://www.eux.tv/article.aspx?articleId=9424

On land they have have manhandled sitting protesters or hosed down larger groups with cold water from police trucks. Lines of riot police have used plastic clubs and shields to drive back the protesters.

 

Sources told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa that US security men tested German security by trying to smuggle C4 plastic explosive past a checkpoint at Heiligendamm.

 

German surveillance machinery detected the tiny stash in a suitcase in a car and the Americans in plainclothes then identified themselves. German police declined comment.

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2636647.stm

Genoa police 'admit fabrication'

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6278311.stm

Genoa riot evidence 'disappears'

[Larry Pubes]

dudes, what the fuck is up with albania? they were fargin' mauling bush like he was michael jackson...

[Theo Huxtable.]

because he supports a proposal for kosovo's independence.

 

probably one of the few european nations that like him

[CALIgula]

because he supports a proposal for kosovo's independence.

 

probably one of the few european nations that like him

 

 

yeah.....it was crazy to see that....they had huge pictures of bush everywhere and were all over him.....

 

 

they like him more than we do..

 

in my opinion....they can have him.

[lord_casek]

CIA 'disappeared' seven-year-old children

http://pressesc.com/01181202133_39_names_enforced_disappearences

[Scarred Bars]

I enjoy Michael Moore, can i join in?

[MayorMeanBeans]

Casek that's some fucked up shit. I read the article, and I wonder if they were kept separate from one another, and whether or not they were allowed to stay with their mother during this time. Neither possibility dismisses the inhumanity of interrogating a 7 and 9 year old, but the reason i ask is a "cultural-relativist" one. In many countries (india is the biggest pro ponent of this practice), mothers who are about to be imprisoned are allowed to take their children under 10 if they can demonstrate that not doing so would result in the children basically being forced to fend for themselves.