confederate flag

[2NevaRespectKlownWeakToyz]

can someone please tell me why the confederate flag is still around?

I think everyone should learn what it once stood for.

and BAN it. BAN it BAN IT

[THE ST!X]

i got a confederate flag bed set...im actually designing a hole line of confederate flag furniture....check it out at PIER1 IMPORTS in 2008...buy dat shyt..

[angelofdeath]

yeah i think everyone should remember what it stands/stood for too. the battle flag was flown on the battle field of confederate forces from 1861-65. slavery existed in the northern border states that remained in the union for the same time period, as well as in the south. lincolns wife's family owned slaves and lincoln and his wife received inheritance from their slave labor. Grant owned slaves and they werent released until the end of the war. Lee freed his slaves before the war started. it was not uncommon at all for white southerners who didnt own slaves to fight white northerners who did own slaves.

 

considering less than 7% of the white population owned slaves, and that plenty of freed blacks OWNED slaves as well, i find it hard to fathom that all troops fighting federal tyranny were fighting so the elite aristocratic class retain thier slaves. Especially given the text of Lincolns first inaugural address where he stated flat out that he didnt want to interfere with slavery, and DID NOT WANT to equalize the white and black races.

 

the chief reason for southern secession was economic. the import tariff. the import tariff benefitted northern industry by raising prices super high and not allowing a flow of cheaper foreign made products into america. since the south dealth with selling agriculture goods on the world market, free trade was thier stance. most of the revenue for hte US government came from the south and its imports into his harbors. it is not a coincidence that the first real battle (not counting the baltimore massecre which included the first northern and southern casualties of the war) was started by the south shelling a northern customs house, fort sumpter.

it was a sad thing when the south resorted to using slavery as an issue. not all of the elite signed onto the liberty and tax resistance aspects of the cause... and instead started thier own line of reasoning that they wouldnt be able to hold slaves any longer.

 

slavery was peacefully abolished across the whole globe without 600K dead.

 

if you want to abolish american history, you might as well just abolish america and all its legacy. slavery was legal under the american flag from 1776-1865. and legal in the colonies from 1607-1776. abolish the american flag, tear down the white house which housed aristocratic slave holders, and burn every history book in existence.

 

the confederate battle flag represents the same principles as the american revolution's banners represent. resistance to tyranny.

ask the black and jewish members about it in my sons of confederate veterans camp.

[Guest R@ndomH3ro]

can someone please tell me why the confederate flag is still around?

I think everyone should learn what it once stood for.

and BAN it. BAN it BAN IT

 

 

Cause its about heritage not hate, Southern by the grace of God.

 

I think we should ban you.

[Some1]

I dont like what it represents...but then again we (the north) won the war therefore making us better and smarter than yall so whatever I guess you can keep it...

[lord_casek]

it's just a flag.

 

 

we should ban this from our dollar bill

 

[Theo Huxtable.]

i don't think the confederate flag should be banned. i don't believe. the confederate flag wasn't synonymous with slavery. slavery was just one aspect. to me the confederate flag just represents southern heritage in general, and occassionally you see blacks from the south wearing clothing with confederate flag designs.

[Guest R@ndomH3ro]

it's just a flag.

 

 

we should ban this from our dollar bill

 

 

 

When did Mussolini win?

[lord_casek]

it's the fasci, sneakandcreep.

[Pfffffffffft]

THIS TOPIC IS RIDICULOUS..

 

angel of death pretty much summed it up..

 

the flag represents the confederate army..not slavery..

 

just like the swastika represents something positive from india i believe but got a negitive reputation when hitler embraced it.

[tabloid-]

I'm not for banning anything.... other than people coming to this country illegally to find employment.

[lord_casek]

I'm not for banning anything.... other than people coming to this country illegally to find employment.

 

 

i second that.

[WORDISM45]

the confederate flag looks way cooler than the gay stars and stripes anyway

[lord_casek]

and i guess you don't like our maritime law version with the gold fringes?

[2NevaRespectKlownWeakToyz]

black people owning blacks slaves i dont think so dummy name names? you cant because it not true....

true not all white southerns owned slaves some where overseers(like the local police dept.)

other had morals and believe in equals

corporate america(companies like p&g) makes up history you guys eat it up.

[Theo Huxtable.]

THIS TOPIC IS RIDICULOUS..

 

angel of death pretty much summed it up..

 

the flag represents the confederate army..not slavery..

 

it represented the confederate states of america as a whole. not just the army.

[2NevaRespectKlownWeakToyz]

Cause its about heritage not hate, Southern by the grace of God.

 

I think we should ban you.

 

i bet if i know you in real life i would knocked your teeth in:lol:

stupid...\

im know my way around a louieville slugger clean your mouth out with soap

and stop snitching TRICk:huh:

[angelofdeath]

the confederate battle flag (the st andrews cross in blue, on a red background with white stars) was not the flag of the confederate goverment or of the country called the Confederate States of America. it was the battle flag of the confederate army. the confederate government had this as thier first flag:

 

 

 

actually the bonnie blue flag was first... a blue flag with one white star in the middle., but i digress..

 

the first confederate armies carried similar flags into battle, but changed to the battle flag to make it easier to distinguish between the forces.

 

dont think freed blacks owned slaves? think again my friend.

 

"The census also determined that there were fewer than 385,000 individuals who owned slaves (1). Even if all slaveholders had been white, that would amount to only 1.4 percent of whites in the country (or 4.8 percent of southern whites owning one or more slaves).

 

 

 

In the rare instances when the ownership of slaves by free Negroes is acknowledged in the history books, justification centers on the claim that black slave masters were simply individuals who purchased the freedom of a spouse or child from a white slaveholder and had been unable to legally manumit them. Although this did indeed happen at times, it is a misrepresentation of the majority of instances, one which is debunked by records of the period on blacks who owned slaves. These include individuals such as Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry, of Colleton District, South Carolina, who each owned 84 slaves in 1830. In fact, in 1830 a fourth of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves; eight owning 30 or more (2). "

 

"

 

In 1860 there were at least six Negroes in Louisiana who owned 65 or more slaves The largest number, 152 slaves, were owned by the widow C. Richards and her son P.C. Richards, who owned a large sugar cane plantation. Another Negro slave magnate in Louisiana, with over 100 slaves, was Antoine Dubuclet, a sugar planter whose estate was valued at (in 1860 dollars) $264,000 (3). That year, the mean wealth of southern white men was $3,978 (4).

 

 

 

In Charleston, South Carolina in 1860 125 free Negroes owned slaves; six of them owning 10 or more. Of the $1.5 million in taxable property owned by free Negroes in Charleston, more than $300,000 represented slave holdings (5). In North Carolina 69 free Negroes were slave owners (6).

 

 

 

In 1860 William Ellison was South Carolina's largest Negro slaveowner. In Black Masters. A Free Family of Color in the Old South, authors Michael P. Johnson and James L. Roak write a sympathetic account of Ellison's life. From Ellison's birth as a slave to his death at 71, the authors attempt to provide justification, based on their own speculation, as to why a former slave would become a magnate slave master.

 

 

 

At birth he was given the name April. A common practice among slaves of the period was to name a child after the day or month of his or her birth. Between 1800 and 1802 April was purchased by a white slave-owner named William Ellison. Apprenticed at 12, he was taught the trades of carpentry, blacksmithing and machining, as well as how to read, write, cipher and do basic bookkeeping.

 

 

 

On June 8, 1816, William Ellison appeared before a magistrate (with five local freeholders as supporting witnesses) to gain permission to free April, now 26 years of age. In 1800 the South Carolina legislature had set out in detail the procedures for manumission. To end the practice of freeing unruly slaves of "bad or depraved" character and those who "from age or infirmity" were incapacitated, the state required that an owner testify under oath to the good character of the slave he sought to free. Also required was evidence of the slave's "ability to gain a livelihood in an honest way."

 

 

 

Although lawmakers of the time could not envision the incredibly vast public welfare structures of a later age, these stipulations became law in order to prevent slaveholders from freeing individuals who would become a burden on the general public.

 

 

 

Interestingly, considering today's accounts of life under slavery, authors Johnson and Roak report instances where free Negroes petitioned to be allowed to become slaves; this because they were unable to support themselves.

 

 

 

Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia (University Press of Virginia-1995) was written by Ervin L. Jordan Jr., an African-American and assistant professor and associate curator of the Special Collections Department, University of Virginia library. He wrote: "One of the more curious aspects of the free black existence in Virginia was their ownership of slaves. Black slave masters owned members of their family and freed them in their wills. Free blacks were encouraged to sell themselves into slavery and had the right to choose their owner through a lengthy court procedure.""

 

(http://americancivilwar.com/authors/black_slaveowners.htm)

 

 

 

even wikipedia gets it right:

 

Black Slave Owners

 

 

 

"It is commonly believed that all slave owners in the United States were white. This is untrue. [9]

 

 

 

In 1860 there were at least six blacks in Louisiana who owned 65 or more slaves The largest number, 152 slaves, were owned by the widow C. Richards and her son P.C. Richards, who owned a large sugar cane plantation. Another black slave magnate in Louisiana, with over 100 slaves, was Antoine Dubuclet, a sugar planter whose estate was valued at (in 1860 dollars) $264,000 [10]. That year, the mean wealth of southern white men was $3,978 .[11]

 

 

 

In Charleston, South Carolina in 1860 125 free blacks owned slaves; six of them owning 10 or more. Of the $1.5 million in taxable property owned by free blacks in Charleston, more than $300,000 represented slave holdings. In North Carolina 69 free blacks were slave owners. [12]

 

 

 

In 1847, a black slave owner, William Ellison, owned over 350 acres, and more than 900 by 1860. He raised mostly cotton, with a small acreage set aside for cultivating foodstuffs to feed his family and slaves. In 1840 he owned 30 slaves, and by 1860 he owned 63. His sons, who lived in homes on the property, owned an additional nine slaves. They were trained as gin makers by their father. They had spent time in Canada, where many wealthy American Blacks of the period sent their children for advanced formal education. Ellison's sons and daughters married mulattos from Charleston, bringing them to the Ellison plantation to live.[13]

 

 

 

In 1860 Ellison greatly underestimated his worth to tax assessors at $65,000. Even using this falsely stated figure, this man who had been a slave 44 years earlier had achieved great financial success. His wealth outdistanced 90 percent of his white neighbors in Sumter District. In the entire state, only five percent owned as much real estate as Ellison. His wealth was 15 times greater than that of the state's average for whites. And Ellison owned more slaves than 99 percent of the South's slaveholders.{"

 

 

 

i can obviously go on...

its always nice to study history, and get the WHOLE picture, instead of cherry picked propagandha.

[2NevaRespectKlownWeakToyz]

^so your saying they brought their FREEDOM!

also saying that didnt own plantation with SLAVES

working for them!GET IT RIGHT>

[angelofdeath]

honestly, i cant decipher a thing you are trying to say in your post.

 

but if you are trying to deny that blacks americans in the 18th and 19th centuries owned black slaves, i have no further reason to talk to you.

 

you wanted names of black slave owners, i gave them to you.

im guessing you didnt read my post.

 

how can you deny documented instances such as :

 

" In 1860 there were at least six blacks in Louisiana who owned 65 or more slaves The largest number, 152 slaves, were owned by the widow C. Richards and her son P.C. Richards, who owned a large sugar cane plantation. Another black slave magnate in Louisiana, with over 100 slaves, was Antoine Dubuclet, a sugar planter whose estate was valued at (in 1860 dollars) $264,000 [10]. That year, the mean wealth of southern white men was $3,978 .[11] "

[russell jones]

the confederate battle flag (the st andrews cross in blue, on a red background with white stars) was not the flag of the confederate goverment or of the country called the Confederate States of America. it was the battle flag of the confederate army. the confederate government had this as thier first flag:

 

 

 

actually the bonnie blue flag was first... a blue flag with one white star in the middle., but i digress..

 

the first confederate armies carried similar flags into battle, but changed to the battle flag to make it easier to distinguish between the forces.

 

dont think freed blacks owned slaves? think again my friend.

 

"The census also determined that there were fewer than 385,000 individuals who owned slaves (1). Even if all slaveholders had been white, that would amount to only 1.4 percent of whites in the country (or 4.8 percent of southern whites owning one or more slaves).

 

 

 

In the rare instances when the ownership of slaves by free Negroes is acknowledged in the history books, justification centers on the claim that black slave masters were simply individuals who purchased the freedom of a spouse or child from a white slaveholder and had been unable to legally manumit them. Although this did indeed happen at times, it is a misrepresentation of the majority of instances, one which is debunked by records of the period on blacks who owned slaves. These include individuals such as Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry, of Colleton District, South Carolina, who each owned 84 slaves in 1830. In fact, in 1830 a fourth of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves; eight owning 30 or more (2). "

 

"

 

In 1860 there were at least six Negroes in Louisiana who owned 65 or more slaves The largest number, 152 slaves, were owned by the widow C. Richards and her son P.C. Richards, who owned a large sugar cane plantation. Another Negro slave magnate in Louisiana, with over 100 slaves, was Antoine Dubuclet, a sugar planter whose estate was valued at (in 1860 dollars) $264,000 (3). That year, the mean wealth of southern white men was $3,978 (4).

 

 

 

In Charleston, South Carolina in 1860 125 free Negroes owned slaves; six of them owning 10 or more. Of the $1.5 million in taxable property owned by free Negroes in Charleston, more than $300,000 represented slave holdings (5). In North Carolina 69 free Negroes were slave owners (6).

 

 

 

In 1860 William Ellison was South Carolina's largest Negro slaveowner. In Black Masters. A Free Family of Color in the Old South, authors Michael P. Johnson and James L. Roak write a sympathetic account of Ellison's life. From Ellison's birth as a slave to his death at 71, the authors attempt to provide justification, based on their own speculation, as to why a former slave would become a magnate slave master.

 

 

 

At birth he was given the name April. A common practice among slaves of the period was to name a child after the day or month of his or her birth. Between 1800 and 1802 April was purchased by a white slave-owner named William Ellison. Apprenticed at 12, he was taught the trades of carpentry, blacksmithing and machining, as well as how to read, write, cipher and do basic bookkeeping.

 

 

 

On June 8, 1816, William Ellison appeared before a magistrate (with five local freeholders as supporting witnesses) to gain permission to free April, now 26 years of age. In 1800 the South Carolina legislature had set out in detail the procedures for manumission. To end the practice of freeing unruly slaves of "bad or depraved" character and those who "from age or infirmity" were incapacitated, the state required that an owner testify under oath to the good character of the slave he sought to free. Also required was evidence of the slave's "ability to gain a livelihood in an honest way."

 

 

 

Although lawmakers of the time could not envision the incredibly vast public welfare structures of a later age, these stipulations became law in order to prevent slaveholders from freeing individuals who would become a burden on the general public.

 

 

 

Interestingly, considering today's accounts of life under slavery, authors Johnson and Roak report instances where free Negroes petitioned to be allowed to become slaves; this because they were unable to support themselves.

 

 

 

Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia (University Press of Virginia-1995) was written by Ervin L. Jordan Jr., an African-American and assistant professor and associate curator of the Special Collections Department, University of Virginia library. He wrote: "One of the more curious aspects of the free black existence in Virginia was their ownership of slaves. Black slave masters owned members of their family and freed them in their wills. Free blacks were encouraged to sell themselves into slavery and had the right to choose their owner through a lengthy court procedure.""

 

(http://americancivilwar.com/authors/black_slaveowners.htm)

 

 

 

even wikipedia gets it right:

 

Black Slave Owners

 

 

 

"It is commonly believed that all slave owners in the United States were white. This is untrue. [9]

 

 

 

In 1860 there were at least six blacks in Louisiana who owned 65 or more slaves The largest number, 152 slaves, were owned by the widow C. Richards and her son P.C. Richards, who owned a large sugar cane plantation. Another black slave magnate in Louisiana, with over 100 slaves, was Antoine Dubuclet, a sugar planter whose estate was valued at (in 1860 dollars) $264,000 [10]. That year, the mean wealth of southern white men was $3,978 .[11]

 

 

 

In Charleston, South Carolina in 1860 125 free blacks owned slaves; six of them owning 10 or more. Of the $1.5 million in taxable property owned by free blacks in Charleston, more than $300,000 represented slave holdings. In North Carolina 69 free blacks were slave owners. [12]

 

 

 

In 1847, a black slave owner, William Ellison, owned over 350 acres, and more than 900 by 1860. He raised mostly cotton, with a small acreage set aside for cultivating foodstuffs to feed his family and slaves. In 1840 he owned 30 slaves, and by 1860 he owned 63. His sons, who lived in homes on the property, owned an additional nine slaves. They were trained as gin makers by their father. They had spent time in Canada, where many wealthy American Blacks of the period sent their children for advanced formal education. Ellison's sons and daughters married mulattos from Charleston, bringing them to the Ellison plantation to live.[13]

 

 

 

In 1860 Ellison greatly underestimated his worth to tax assessors at $65,000. Even using this falsely stated figure, this man who had been a slave 44 years earlier had achieved great financial success. His wealth outdistanced 90 percent of his white neighbors in Sumter District. In the entire state, only five percent owned as much real estate as Ellison. His wealth was 15 times greater than that of the state's average for whites. And Ellison owned more slaves than 99 percent of the South's slaveholders.{"

 

 

 

i can obviously go on...

its always nice to study history, and get the WHOLE picture, instead of cherry picked propagandha.

 

 

 

This means exactly nothing since all slaves were black.

[soulkillers]

black people owning blacks slaves i dont think so dummy name names? you cant because it not true....

true not all white southerns owned slaves some where overseers(like the local police dept.)

other had morals and believe in equals

corporate america(companies like p&g) makes up history you guys eat it up.

 

read this buddy.

 

http://www.issues-views.com/index.php/sect/1006/article/1091

[angelofdeath]

i disagree russell, i think this is a big part of history that has been whitewashed. that blacks didnt fight for the confederate army or that blacks didnt own other black people. to me, it sort of throws a wrench in the stereotype of the racist white southern slave holder and the poor defenseless black man. it sort of presents a broader picture to know that some free blacks OWNED slaves and many VOLUNTARILY served in the confederate army.

 

for instance, how would blacks feel about calling for reparations from people of thier own race??

 

interesting:

 

"In 1619, 20 Africans were dropped off by a Dutch trader at Jamestown, Virginia. Slavery did not legally exist in the colony at the time, and the Africans were treated as indentured servants, gaining their freedom after a fixed period of time. In 1654, John Casor, a black man, become the first legally-recognized slave in the area to become the United States. Casor was owned by one of the original indentured servants, a black colonist named Anthony Johnson. Slavery became formally codified in the English colonies in the second half of the 17th century."

 

note that the first 'legal' slave in viriginia was owned by a black man.

[Guest R@ndomH3ro]

i bet if i know you in real life i would knocked your teeth in:lol:

stupid...\

im know my way around a louieville slugger clean your mouth out with soap

and stop snitching TRICk:huh:

 

Dude I wouldnt want to know you in real life because your a butthurt pussy.

Getting all mad because you have no argument about the flag of the south.

 

You fight with a LOUISVILLE slugger....pussy, I fight with my mits.

 

learn what you are talking about you eleventeen wuss

 

Who the fuck is snitching?? :lol:

[tabloid-]

If you want to pretend that the confederate flag means " southern pride", more power to you. If you take pride in treason and oppression you should put a " GOP " flag right next to your confederate flag.

[Guest R@ndomH3ro]

If you want to pretend that the confederate flag means " southern pride", more power to you. If you take pride in treason and oppression you should put a " GOP " flag right next to your confederate flag.

 

Also remember that treason goes hand in hand with the American Flag as well. I don't think the King of England really liked when we declared ourselves a nation.

 

Really, its just a flag. Most states in the south really don't fly that flag, besides Georgia and Mississippi and its really just for historical reasons, mostly because they where the first to succeed from the union.

 

I know that idiots use that flag to promote their hate....but thats it, they are idiots.

 

Dont hate the flag of our history...hate the idiots that try to use it for their propaganda, just like how they use the Nazi flag (When really Nazis wanted a GERMAN empire and would have killed all these Neo-dumbasses) or worse...hide behind Christian symbols.

[2NevaRespectKlownWeakToyz]

most of that stuff is made up history...

you cant believe everything you read,

see on TV, or learn in high school....\

 

i'm american yet im not consider american

in forgien countrys because of my skin color

like i said before made up history made by the masses

 

you can KEEP BOTH UGLY FLAGS and YOUR WHITE

AMERICAN HISTORY

[2NevaRespectKlownWeakToyz]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Dude I wouldnt want to know you in real life because your a butthurt pussy.

Getting all mad because you have no argument about the flag of the south.

 

You fight with a LOUISVILLE slugger....pussy, I fight with my mits.

 

learn what you are talking about you eleventeen wuss

 

Who the fuck is snitching?? :lol:

 

:lol: :lol:

[angelofdeath]

"If you take pride in treason and oppression you should put a " GOP " flag right next to your confederate flag."

 

how is the south seceding, "treason" when 13 colonies in America did the same thing 90 years before? they seceded from a tyrannical power. these colonies allowed slavery. why wasnt secession considered treason when a handful of northern states proposed secession when the war of 1812 broke out and they didnt want to send troops to fight it?

 

the classical liberal states rights tradition is deeper than mere southern secession in 1861.

 

what makes you think the south wouldnt of abolished slavery peacefully like every other country on the face of the earth? why was lincoln, grand-daddy of your despised GOP, proposing that freed blacks be DEPORTED? why did lincoln come from a state with laws that forbid free black entry unless for a specific reason? why wasnt slavery abolished in the border states or new jersey or oregon until after the war? why did Grant own slaves and Lee didnt?

 

the united states protected, defended and thrived on slavery from 1776-1865. the american flag represents more oppression than any confederate flag ever will. the KKK routinely flies the American flag more than the confederate flag. they burn christian crosses. is now the christian cross a symbol of hate and oppression?

 

all this stuff, along with the harsh northern black codes which forbid free black settlement in many northern states, the harsh anti semetism by northerners... (yanks were burning synagogues while jews were serving in high positions in the confederate government. ) goes to show the war to prevent southern secession has as much to do with slavery as the 2004 election did with gay marriage. the war was about taxes. the right to self government. the same thing that the revolutionary war was for.

 

the GOP is arguably as anti southern as the democratic party. for instance, it is argued that George Allen, who lost his virginia senator seat to democrat Jim Webb, because of his shoddy stance on the confederate flag in addition to the iraq war. it is rather ironic that George Allen who was sucking up to the NAACP and SPLC to try to win votes, got bit in the ass, because Jim Webb is just as much of a confederate sympathizer as I am. Webb made no apologies about his confederate sympathy.

 

secession, is not treason, it is patriotism.

[angelofdeath]

" Really, its just a flag. Most states in the south really don't fly that flag, besides Georgia and Mississippi and its really just for historical reasons, mostly because they where the first to succeed from the union."

 

actually, south carolina was first, but the deep south soon followed.

it is funny to note that mississippi is currently the only state with a confederate battle flag still in its state flag. georgia's was changed. but the mississippi state flag was put to a state wide vote a couple years ago, and 30% of african americans voted to KEEP it.

 

"I know that idiots use that flag to promote their hate....but thats it, they are idiots. "

 

thumbs up on that one brother.