OMFUG FBI CIA NYT

[HardyHarHar]

So the New York Times is blasted for giving valuable informaion to terrorists (and those of us with bank accounts) for disclosing the governments tracking of bank records, but now I see FBI Director Mueller on CNN answering the question, There's a new Bin Laden tape, does this signal an upcoming attack saying, "We have no knowledge of an Al Qaeda attack."

 

Talk about double-standards, wtf?

[Obvious]

hardy har har

[lord_casek]

it's all about the perception of fear. why did this new bin laden come out? what is coming up? the anniversary of sept. 11th.

 

what's in the news right now? bush's declining ratings in the eyes of americans, confirmation of cia torture prisons, etc.

[TheOh]

notice the key timing of gas prices going down??? first we are told the price goes up due to supply and demand-China and India buying up gas for their exploding countries growth. now all of a sudden, it starts to go down ... way too coincidental for my taste.

[Stereotype V.0002]

And the other day, I had a greenlight but right when I got close it went yellow then red right afterwards. Fucking crazy ass shit.

[angelofdeath]

"notice the key timing of gas prices going down??? first we are told the price goes up due to supply and demand-China and India buying up gas for their exploding countries growth. now all of a sudden, it starts to go down .."

 

this is common populist outrage and shows an extreme lack of economic intellegence.

tellurian has a pretty decent understanding, as long as his last line is sarcasm. there are about 400 billion factors that go into gas prices. one of the biggest reasons why gas is falling at present is because of less consumption as it is 'back to school time' but also because 'recent' findings of an assload of oil off our coast. of course most of us already knew this, but the amount was more than previously expected. now, if we could only get to it.....

[Larry Pubes]

i didn't think the recent finding made a lick of difference on prices now or in the near future, but maybe i too have an 'extreme lack of economic intelligence'.

[lord_casek]

yeah, i'm in agreement with pubes. the recent findings down have shit to do with prices.

and bin ladens recent appearence is not coincidence.

 

in that wtc thread i started, i posted an article about the new video showing supposed hijackers in a training camp with bin laden, only these guys are still alive and have normal lives. one is actually an airline pilot. how odd. kinda funny, in a way.

[Dawood]

i didn't think the recent finding made a lick of difference on prices now or in the near future, but maybe i too have an 'extreme lack of economic intelligence'.

 

it's going to take hundreds of billions of dollars to get any of this oil into productivity

and out on the market, then we'll se a difference.

[TheOh]

edit

[TheOh]

this is common populist outrage and shows an extreme lack of economic intellegence. tellurian has a pretty decent understanding, as long as his last line is sarcasm. there are about 400 billion factors that go into gas prices. one of the biggest reasons why gas is falling at present is because of less consumption as it is 'back to school time' but also because 'recent' findings of an assload of oil off our coast. of course most of us already knew this, but the amount was more than previously expected. now, if we could only get to it.....

 

 

 

calling me a populist is NOT an insult, if it was meant as such. i dont really buy that gas prices are going down because of "back to school". and these fruits of these "recent" findings are not supposed to be realized for another 4 years. the terrorist premium angle i dont really see either because nothing has really changed signifigantly on that front lately that i can see that would decrease the price of oil. i also cant believe that China and India have all of a sudden reached a sufficient amount of oil for their economies. if you ask me, oil is a precious resource, like water and should be treated as such.

[WORDISM45]

water is treated as a precious resource? shit i could have sworn people still have half hour logn showers, leave the tap running cause theyre too lazy to turn it off then on again, hose everything in sight, use sprinkler systems, innefficiently irrigate etc etc

[angelofdeath]

"i also cant believe that China and India have all of a sudden reached a sufficient amount of oil for their economies."

 

 

give it a read.

 

the simple finger pointing shows a serious lack of understanding on the subject. i dont believe china or india have reached a sufficient amount of oil in thier economies, however, simply put, there is slightly MORE oil, than we had before which is driving prices slowly down. supply and demand. its a very simple thing. however, there are about 5 bazillion factors that make up the supply and demand sides. war, usage, govt price controls, opec cartelling.

seriously man, im an auto tech who works at a service station. i'd be the first to tell you the truth about gas prices. i hear about it all day long. i keep up on it all day long. i check the nymex. you'd be surprised how rapidly and suddenly the price of oil falls when the israeli/hezbollah war was over, or when we caught saddam or when there is talk about pulling out of iraq.

world consumption is at an all time high, and the market is very volatile. anything, can disrupt supply. if consumers all started driving an extra 40 miles a week, you'd be suprised how much more gas is used, and how much more the gas price increased, if there is not enough supply.

 

want lower gas prices? cutting those evil ceo's worked for free it might drop the price a few pennies a gallon. want to cut the price on 3.00 a gallon gas? ask your local and federal governments to drop thier sales tax IMMEDIATELY! atleast .40$ would come off the price. want the price even cheaper? find more oil. get behind efforts in congress to stop retarded ass regulations from the US increasing its supply and stopping reliance on the world market.

just saying.

[WORDISM45]

haha i know dude i live i nAUstralia theres been a drought here for years and years.

 

i was just pointing out, in reply to what iron lung_said about oil beign a precious resource like water and should be treated as such, that no one treats water as a precious resource either and that is probably more of an issue than oil

[shai]

It's funny (not ha-ha funny) because oil and water are so synergistic.

 

You need water to drill for oil (coolant...and to drink, that shit is hard work).

 

However, the consumption of oil has been one of the causes of global warming, which has (in a very broad sense) an effect where viable sources for water are located. Ask Australia- they're surrounded by it, but they barely have enough to manage to start with...and a lot of the phenomena linked to global warming is happening in...yep, the Southern Hemisphere. Add the fact that they're a flat country with very few mountains to collect snowfall, and it's even more dire.

 

Oil is not necessary to life. I've lived without a car my entire life. I choose to do this so I don't become dependent on a product that is slowly killing this planet. Sorry, but it is...either because folks in the first world use it like it's going out of style and it's poisonous to any kind of life form, or because we have to fight wars that have been slowly escalating because...oh, right, we use it like it's going out of style.

 

But, none of this is necessary...the only reason we still run internal combustion engines off of gasoline is because that's the way it's been done for the past century...so a lot of money is being spent to keep it that way. Why? I don't know...stupidity, rapaciousness, greed...the usual. Well, some of the oil companies are experimenting with ethanol (what they don't tell you is that it's been in common use in South America for decades), and I know several folks that are already running their cars off of biodiesel, aka recycled cooking oil.

 

It's not too late, but it would take a pretty huge shift in thinking for it to change the way business and oil are inextricably linked. Otherwise, it won't be long before they're not going to have a planet left to spend their money on.

[Smart]

*late night/early morning off topic rant

 

Way to understand the impact of natural disasters on the oil supply chain in the south east yall, though, yeah, you're right... It's all about one dude in a cave and another in a mansion. You know what mostly pisses me off is how Bin Laden influenced BP's corporate policy starting as far back as the late 70's leading to the pipeline failures in Alaska as well... cunning.

 

Way to ignore the pervasiveness of petroleum as a whole... though I'm sure you don't own anything made of plastic or nylon and all your groceries are organically farmed, manually harvested and delivered on the backs of donkeys... not to even begin to mention the textile industry because I'm sure you walk around barefoot in a buck skin loincloth... living in a house built out of rough hewn timbers cut with an axe and fastened with locally forged nails you got from the town blacksmith...

 

Since we're gonna invest our future into ethanol, let's stop subsidizing the corn farmers since their only real competition in the ethanol field seems to come from the relatively small sugar growers industry and the corn farmers certainly aren't gonna go broke, what with all the new demand... of course, it will be a little tougher for them with out the current generation of tractors and the price of Corn Pops ceral might go through the roof but, small (big) price to pay right?

 

Plus, let's follow What's her nuts Clinton and lower the national speed limit back to 55 because the increased delivery time and decreased productivity can't hurt the global economy all that much right? Americans are uber patient and willing to pay more for everything too.

 

Lets just go ahead and scrap the airline industry, that's gonna save us a ton and really, is it that much more inconvenient to convert the entire international overseas shipping structure back to wind power?

 

Of course well probably have to abandon space exploration and computers are gonna have to go, along with cell phones and regular phones (until we get a few million made from wood and hand drawn copper wire)...

[angelofdeath]

my prediction, gas will fall over the next year to 1.50 or under and no one will care about alternative fuels.

i read one statistic that it takes something like 9 barrels of gas/diesel to make 8 barrels of ethanol.

 

Smart's point about stopping farm subsidation is a very good one and can be extended to every other industry and pay out from the government. these are all bad for the citizens in the end.

 

"Way to ignore the pervasiveness of petroleum as a whole... though I'm sure you don't own anything made of plastic or nylon and all your groceries are organically farmed, manually harvested and delivered on the backs of donkeys... not to even begin to mention the textile industry because I'm sure you walk around barefoot in a buck skin loincloth... living in a house built out of rough hewn timbers cut with an axe and fastened with locally forged nails you got from the town blacksmith..."

 

this paragraph is dead on.

the only way to be totally free from oil dependency is to live on a mountain in western North carolina and grow/hunt your own food, live in a log house etc etc.

this sort of stuff reminds me of the band earth crisis. (one of my all time favorites.) they would sing about biological terror, killing the rainforests, using plastic, beat up people who wear leather, but they were producing cd's made of plastic. selling merchandise that wasnt vegan friendly...etc. its sort of odd because the most people who cry the loudest about environmental issues, usually live in a big city. and then if they fulfill thier dream of being a hippy and living one with nature, they usually are very unhappy and give it up.

 

its sort of like.... a person who hates the modern State with a passion, (like me) going to get a cushy union public sector job.

[shai]

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/onh2p3.htm Number of cars in the US

 

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/onh2p3.htm Number of cars per capita

 

Apparently, everybody in the US (by statistical measures) owns half a car.

 

We have the highest per capita of car ownership in the world.

 

We have 5% of the world's population, and use something between 2/3 of the resources.

 

I'm not saying that we should entirely stop using petroleum, but we need to get past our dependency on it. It's not good to rely on something that does more harm than good to this degree.

[shai]

Sorry, I should have said "second highest per capita".

 

I stand corrected.

[Smart]

I saw a really good documentary on PBS not too long ago about how 3 companies conspired to wreck the electric street car system that was in effect across the country back in the 40's and 50's. I think it was GM, Uniroyal tires and Standard Oil but I can't really recall. I do remember that they were focusing on mostly on what killed the Cleveland street cars system. Still, they went around the country analysing the same trend in several different cities.

 

Basically, the 3 companies formed a 4th company to cover their tracks. Then they bought up the local street car companies and managed them into the ground, at the same time they opened bus companies and under priced the street car prices as well.

 

It was a really interesting program, wish I remembered more about it.

[shai]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak

[shai]

I saw a really good documentary on PBS not too long ago about how 3 companies conspired to wreck the electric street car system that was in effect across the country back in the 40's and 50's. I think it was GM, Uniroyal tires and Standard Oil but I can't really recall. I do remember that they were focusing on mostly on what killed the Cleveland street cars system. Still, they went around the country analysing the same trend in several different cities.

 

Basically, the 3 companies formed a 4th company to cover their tracks. Then they bought up the local street car companies and managed them into the ground, at the same time they opened bus companies and under priced the street car prices as well.

 

It was a really interesting program, wish I remembered more about it.

 

For another view on the same matter, watch "Who Framed Roger Rabbit". Seriously, the story of the Red Line PCC (LA's interurban) is one of the subplots in the film.

 

Here's more history on Amtrak- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak