KaBar2 Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 You're missing the point Try living in a country where the PEOPLE are mostly disarmed, but the cops and the Army and the Secret Police have all the guns. I don't trust anybody in authority enough to live somewhere where nobody has any guns but the Shultzstaffel, I mean the The Home Office, uh, no, I mean the Homeland Security Agency...well, you get the idea. Authoritarians have a tendency to get pretty entitled when nobody has any guns but them. We all were appalled after the Oklahoma City Bombing, here in the United States. No guns used there. Then came the World Trade Center attacks. No guns used there. Ever think about the fact that the FBI and the ATF got a lot less interested in kicking down people's doors after the OKC bombing? And the Soviets admitted long ago that they completely ruled out any attempt to invade the United States because there are 270 million guns in this country. They wouldn't even be able to get out of their tanks to take a piss without getting killed. If the people of the United States fail to rise up and protest something like the 2000 Presidential election, it's NOT because they do not have the means to resist. It's because they do not feel that the situation was sufficiently unjust to warrant resistance. Frankly, if I could be sure that Kerry and the Democrats would not try and pass more outlandish gun laws, I would be more than happy to see the Republican Party given a run for it's money. The Republicans promise one thing (compassionate conservatism) and deliver something else entirely (corporate cronyism.) The Democrats promise one thing (enlightened progressive liberalism) and deliver something else (buttinsky Mamma-knows-best patronizing.) I do not want to live in a Bushland Uber Alles Republican police state. And I also do not want to live in a disarmed Democratic Party world where the social workers, environmental protection agencies and therapists are backed by the SWAT teams of the Liberal Nanny State. What can I say? Vote Libertarian. I would--if only they could win. Do you remember that widely-publicized picture of that Cuban kid in Florida, what was his name? Elian Gonzales? Something like that. That pic perfectly represented the Modern Socialist Democratic State to me. A SWAT team coming to sieze a kid from his deceased mother's family, to deliver him to his father, living in a Communist dictatorship. Fuck THAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Re: You're missing the point Originally posted by KaBar2 Try living in a country where the PEOPLE are mostly disarmed, but the cops and the Army and the Secret Police have all the guns. I do, less murder, more safety and a legally elected PM. And i ask you again, what does the 2nd ammendment serves when the constitution is totally raped and almost noone cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOx Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 like tessaeract, I also live in that country and its fine chill the fuck out Kabar and word to what ttboy said about the need for semi autos...And this is coming from someone who owns guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOx Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 ONE MORE THING! Kabar, chill out with your anecdotal, methaphorical and biassed stories to back up your silly little points your starting to sound like Michael Moore's counterpart on the right-wing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 For real, what do you need a semi-automatic for if it's not to kill a human being. To make you feel like more of a man? That's just sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar2 Posted July 20, 2004 Author Share Posted July 20, 2004 Yes, that's absolutely what they're for And I don't just own one. I own what amounts to an arsenal, and I'm not the only one. I know at least thirty or forty guys just like me, and we aren't even making an effort to find new people. The standard was to prepare for oneself, and three others. By the time the organization suspended training, we had the resources to arm a couple of hundred people with military grade rifles, besides ourselves. Every fourth weapon was to be an NHM-91 chambered for 7.62x39mm, and supplied with at least four 75-round drum magazines. (This is a civilian semi-auto version of the RPK.) Each of us bought a 1,000 round case of ammunition for every service rifle, plus a case of 7.62x39mm for the NHM-91 and a 1,000 round case of military blank ammunition for training. I served in the U.S. Marine Corps. We fired about 1,500 rounds every year qualifying on the KD rifle range. In the militia, they were shooting an average of 500 rounds every weekend on either KD ranges or in Hogan's Alley. In the four years I was a Marine, we never did the sort of intense training the Texas militia did. We did rappelling, tactical river crossings, ambushes, airboat operations, small boat training, movement to contact in both military camouflage and civilian clothing, etc, etc. Call it whatever you want to. The bottom line is that we are well-armed, and we intend to stay that way. If you choose to be unarmed, that is your business. I wouldn't dream of telling you what you should do. I have suggestions for the world in general, and in my opinion, everyone should be armed. Here in Texas, it is not an unusual opinion at all. Semi-automatic firearms are 100% legal in the United States. So far as that goes, so are tax-paid NFA Class III machineguns (we fired some of those too, but the ammunition cost is prohibitive.) Most of the NFA machinegun dealers I know got into the business so they could own as many NFA weapons as they like on one license. They are always looking for a customer, but each time a machinegun is transferred from one owner to the next, there is a $200 transfer tax. And since nobody wants to absorb the loss, they add that $200 onto the price when they sell it to the next legal owner, plus the buyer pays his own $200 transfer tax. So essentially, each time the weapon is transferred, the price goes up at least $400. That is the only reason that machineguns are not more popular. When I was attending college, I had a professor (a liberal Democrat) who owned TWO machineguns, as well as a host of other firearms. We did not agree on much politically, but I really enjoyed shooting with the guy. Most gun owners are not politically active. They do not realize that there are powerful left-wing forces at work, attempting to disarm them. Most of the murders that occur in the U.S. happen among minority races. A young African-American male, between 14 and 25 has a 1:4 chance of getting murdered, murdering someone else, being serious wounded, or being imprisoned for some felony. I sympathize with their situation. If I were a black father with sons, I would be terrified for them. But I am not black, and I have no sons. The American murder rate can be attributed to a handfull of cultural influences--the hip-hop, "gangsta rap", gangbanging culture, and the cocaine trade. Most of the murders occurring here are occurring in low-income, high-crime, minority neighborhoods. I only know of one murder victim personally--my late ex-wife. She was stabbed to death in the hallway of her apartment by her landlady's ex-convict, three-time-loser, burglar son. He stabbed her five times in the back with one of her own kitchen knives. She bled to death while he tried to rape her as she died. He hid in her closet, and waited for her to come home from work. Like something from a horror movie, when she opened the closet door to hang up her dress, he attacked her. She had extensive "defense cuts" on both hands and forearms. She fought him, but he cut her to ribbons. Even if she had been armed, I doubt that she would have had time to get a pistol and fight back. For some reason, which nobody seems to understand, he got seven years to life, instead of the death penalty. He's in a Texas prison. My late ex-wife was the consumate liberal. She was a labor union representative, a member of the Congress of Labor Union Women, and very active in the Democratic Party. She knew how to shoot, because I taught her, back when we were both anarchist "revolutionaries." When we split up, I gave her a pistol. I've always wondered if she still had it that day, and what would have happened if she had been able to get to it. We were married four years. We hitch-hiked and hopped trains all over the West. The woman I knew would have defended herself if she could have got her hands on a gun. So would anybody else, I think. Once in a while, I visit her grave and leave flowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Dude, you're fucking crazy. The year 2000 already passed and there was no armageddon. You don't need all those guns! Seriously, one gun for self defense is one thing, but when you have an arsenal that is unneccessary and pointless. It's like celebrities with 18 bedroom mansions and 10 cars. You are just showing off to all your gun buddies, admit it. Just one more stupid competition to see who can buy more shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I'm really sorry to hear about your ex but seriously, half the points you state in favor of guns prove just how worthless and pointless they are. Looks like the only thing the second ammendmend serves is to get the gun industry richer and to put more tax money in the pockets of the goverment...oh, and have minorities whipe them selfs out, pretty convinient isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar2 Posted July 20, 2004 Author Share Posted July 20, 2004 Nobody forces people to become killers. It's a voluntary act, a choice. The guy that murdered my late ex-wife had to plan it carefully, sneak up to her apartment with a key, go inside, get one of her knives, hide in her closet and wait. I wonder how long he stood there in the dark, among her clothes, waiting for her to return home after work? Definately, it was premeditated murder. And in Texas, "capital" murder, worthy of the death penalty, because it was premeditated, from ambush, and committed during the commission of another felony (rape.) My little arsenal is not for ego enhancement, it's to arm my family and friends in an emergency. I like to think there are plenty of guys like me in Texas. I figure a few hundred thousand, anyway. Maybe a million. The U.S. armed forces is only 1.8 million soldiers. The NRA is about 4 million men now. The licensed American deer hunters number 31 million. And the number of American gun owners is 70 million, and they own 270 million firearms. Back during the Texas War for Independence from Mexico, there was a flag, called the Goliad Flag. It was the flag raised over the town of Goliad when the Mexican Army got there. It was a picture of a cannon barrel with the words: "COME AND TAKE IT." Here in Texas we take the Second Amendment very seriously, as many Americans do. I feel something like those Texicans at Goliad felt, back in 1836. If the Nanny State wants my guns, let them come and get 'em. But first, I'll give them all my ammunition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 That's another thing, Tesseract is right. All that money you are spending on your guns is benifitting the government via taxes and the insanely rich and powerful gun companies with which many of the members of the US government are tied to. And it's horrible what happened to your ex-wife. You have my condolences. But that does not make it ok to have enough weapons to take over Houston for a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 What kind of emergency warrents an arsenal of weapons? And what kind of deer requires an AK-47 to take down? Doesn't that kind of take the fun out of hunting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar2 Posted July 20, 2004 Author Share Posted July 20, 2004 I don't hunt animals anymore Hunting is a lot of fun, and very satisfying, but I don't hunt animals anymore. I did, when we were very poor, and lived in Washington State. But we don't need the meat these days, and it's a lot of hassle. The Second Amendment is not about sport. One needs no justification to own firearms, indeed, the Second Amendment is about military firearms, firearms appropriate to arm the militia. That's why several of the rifles I own are AR-15s and MAK-90's, civilian copies of military rifles. I own a few deer rifles too, but these days, I only shoot long distance targets with them. The range where I shoot has a 200 yard range, a 300 yard range and a 500 yard range. On the 500, I use my .308 Winchester and my .30-'06. The AR-15 (civilian copy of the M-16) is too underpowered to be very effective at that range, and it's 5.56mm bullet is so light, it blows around from any wind. In the Marine Corps we called the M-16A1 a "poodle shooter." Everybody wanted an M-14, chambered for 7.62mm NATO (.308 Winchester, in civilian caliber.) I'm not a very good shot. As I get older my eyes are getting worse. A good Marine Corps sniper can hit human-sized targets out to about 1,250 yards. One shot: one kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 This is going nowhere, at least for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skullnbones Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Re: Re: Pin-up and KaBar's Big Firearms Debate Thread Originally posted by Mr. ABC in all my years i never felt the need to own a firearm. a cricket bat with a nail through it was all that was needed to fend off would-be robbers this comment makes me proud haha. but seriously being australian i can agree with pretty much everything from whiteox. however i must say out of the few people i know that own guns (not including farm owners who actually need their rifles), all but one are the exact people who shouldnt have guns and as a matter of fact shouldnt be aloud anywhere near them or any other weapons. this however doesnt change the fact that i agree with the current laws and white ox's debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milton Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 OK, lets get this straight...after your president illegaly took over cause he wasnt legally elected and then violated all the rights an individual deserves in democracy...the american citizens used their guns to reinstate whats fair?... He didn't illegally take over the country. He took over the country in a manner that was not right, or just, but it was legal by the laws of the country. Do you think he would be sitting in office after a democratic commander in chief if he didn't win legally? Kabar addressed the point here about the fact that the police and those in power are the ones with arms. I don't know if you've had interaction with the police or to what degree you have, but let me tell you a lot of them are people who I would not want in any position of power whatsoever. A lot of them abuse their power, a lot of them take advantage of the law to an equal or greater degree than criminals. A lot of them are minimally intelligent 25-45 year old men on a power trip because they have a gun on their hip. Most police I have interacted with think that because they were given a badge and a gun that they are automatically righteous, just, and correct in everything they do. Not the case. I will offer you an antecdote about an interaction I had with the police as a justification for what I believe. [skip this if you're trying to read fast] When I was 18 years old, and a freshman at a university, I was followed for several blocks through a series of u-turns and various other manuvers by a car which I did not recognize. So I called a friend and had him meet me on the road. When we were together and I felt that we would be safe to approach the car we did. When we approached the driver pulled a pistol and waved it at us. We returned to our cars and sped off without getting the license plate numbers. Two weeks after we saw the same vehicle parked in a parking lot and got the plate numbers. At this time we called the police, and told them that this person had pulled a gun on us, but we did not want to follow through with pressing charges. About two weeks later the police outreach officer from the highschool I went to called myself and my mothers home, etc. Regarding the "prank phonecall" that I made to the police. When I addressed him, he pressured me to admit to speaking on the tape (which I wasn't on, by the way) I did not. He told me that he had "5 witnesses to say that it was me on the tape" which it wasn't. He said that he had already spoken to the other people involved. Which he hadn't. I explained the situation and what happened, exactly, and in complete honesty. After meeting with him, and having him try and get me to incriminate my friends, he took me "downtown" My friends were already there and they took us, one by one into an "interview" room and grilled us for about 2 hours each about why it was not funny to prank call the police, etc. etc. Each of us explained in perfect honesty what we remembered about the situation, and that it had in fact happened. They replied that "your friends already told us that it didn't happen" etc etc etc. I never admitted to anything and after about an hour of the investigation I refused to talk to them anymore without a lawyer present and that if they wanted to continue holding me they would need to either call me a lawyer or arrest me for something. This was met with an officer "going to get a superior" and another officer trying to "rap with me man to man." After another hour of us going in circles they let me leave and said that they would be in touch with me. I was never charged due to not being on the tape but both of my friends got to serve jail time and pay huge fines over this. All because some assholes take themselves way too seriously. These are not the type of people I want to have that much power over me. The difference between an armed an unarmed culture causes the culture to be armed vs. unarmed. It's not the other way around. If you're coming from an entirely different culture it's hard to understand why americans feel the need to protect themeselves. Our whole culture is dog-eat-dog, we have a huge crime rate. This is why people still feel the need to have guns. Combine this with the lack of trust for people in power because we've been fucked over so many times, of course you're going to want to arm yourself. Milton/ It's a cold world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Originally posted by Milton He didn't illegally take over the country. He took over the country in a manner that was not right, or just, but it was legal by the laws of the country. Do you think he would be sitting in office after a democratic commander in chief if he didn't win legally? Kabar addressed the point here about the fact that the police and those in power are the ones with arms. I don't know if you've had interaction with the police or to what degree you have, but let me tell you a lot of them are people who I would not want in any position of power whatsoever. A lot of them abuse their power, a lot of them take advantage of the law to an equal or greater degree than criminals. A lot of them are minimally intelligent 25-45 year old men on a power trip because they have a gun on their hip. Most police I have interacted with think that because they were given a badge and a gun that they are automatically righteous, just, and correct in everything they do. Not the case. The difference between an armed an unarmed culture causes the culture to be armed vs. unarmed. It's not the other way around. If you're coming from an entirely different culture it's hard to understand why americans feel the need to protect themeselves. Our whole culture is dog-eat-dog, we have a huge crime rate. This is why people still feel the need to have guns. Combine this with the lack of trust for people in power because we've been fucked over so many times, of course you're going to want to arm yourself. Milton/ It's a cold world... I see your points but still disagree, in a country where guns arent allowed i've had the gun of a cop stuck against my head...terrible indeed, but what would change if i had a gun on me? at home? whatever..would i shoot the cop? To me the whole 'protect your self' point is useless, its an illusion that you're protected to work out your insecurities that are being brought up by the way your culture dictates Your culture dictates that anyone can carry a gun to enforce his intentions, if having a gun on a locker while asleep makes you feel better while your girl or your homie returns home and instead of a punch he gets a bullet, then do it..it just doesnt work If you feel that the goverment cant protect you, start a riot instead of making them richer. He didn't illegally take over the country. He took over the country in a manner that was not right, or just, but it was legal by the laws of the country This whole sentence, leave apart the facts, equals to illegal to me but have it your way. Without the slightest irony, i'm amazed by how the citizens of the most powerfull country live for decades in deep and paralysing fear. Tesseract/ enjoying the sunshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOx Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 kabar, sorry about your wife, but you have to understand that your attitudes are the compounding an almost insurmountable societal issue This thread is really depressing, i'm over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 what you guys are failing to accept is that kabar is a fucking lunatic revisionist, who's arguments are so fragile that even the slightest bit of reality can creep in and completely destroy everything he stands upon, so to maintain his position, he has to completely ignore any notion of logic or reason. you're all waisting your breath. in kabar's world, the liberals are still the one's imposing on peoples freedoms and the republicans are working for smaller government. the fact that the patroit act, a republican bill, is the largest infringement on americans rights since the internment camps doesnt really matter. in kabar's world, secret police are sitting outside everyones doors just waiting for the word from 'the man' to come crashing in and take us all hostage. too bad the dumb son of a bitch doesnt realize they dont need black helicopters, secret police, or even a ban on guns to control us, 1% of the country controls 99% of the wealth. we can have all the guns we want, we still can't over throw our gonvernment, because if we did, we would be 1000x's more fucked than we are now. in afghanistan, you can kill the electricity and they'll manage just fine. cut the power in america, and we can't get money out of the atm, which means we cant eat, which means we die. if there was a cvil war in america, we would starve to death in a month, and thats the god damn truth. he's building a fucking bomb shelter to save himself from a nuclear attack. earth to kabar, IT'S NOT GOING TO SAVE YOU HOMEBOY! if you want to carry on with your dellusions of security, then you go right ahead, but you're not safe from shit. your life is not your own. your life is controlled by the machines that we've come to depend upon to sustain us, and those machines are controlled by those in power - those with the money, who no amount of militias will be able to over throw. however if they somehow did, it would destroy the country along with the entire worlds economy. but who cares about reality when you have an arsenal of guns right, you simple minded motherfucker?! jesus christ. watching you sit on here with your outdated ass ideology is fucking painful. this is not 1966, the sooner you wake up and realize that, the better off (and safer) you'll be. brawn lost out to brains years ago. you and your little band of merry friars are training for a war with an enemy that doesnt exist. but by all means, keep writing 7000 word essays, to a bunch of graffiti writers. maybe you can persuade one or two of us to go out and purchase a fully automatic rifle when the ban runs out...then we'll be safe. i mean, what's more secure than a graffiti writer with a machine gun?! dude, give it a rest. isn't there a fucking soldier of fortune board you'd feel a little more at home on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 shit that was refreshing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Well seeks when this top heavy tower ultimately does collapse under it's own weight I would feel alot better with an assault rifle. I don't know if you all ready my resource wars thread but alot of shit is coming to a head and I'm not seeing a whole lot being done about it. I realize that guns can cause problems. All you have to do is look at about every conflict in Africa where we tried to intervene by arming people there. We would probably do better by giving them jobs instead of guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Sorry to spoil the party but I was hoping for more of a response. Oh well. An interesting new discovery is that the ocean is absorbing most of our co2 emissions. However this is also a major factor in the coral bleachings. Temperature risings and a rise in the acidity of the oceans, a lowering of the ph. How many ozone holes do we have now? 6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 villian, when this top heavy tower collapses, i'd feel safer with an assault rifle too...which is why i bought one. HOWEVER, now that i'm not 22 and stupid, i now realize that all it will really do is prolong my inevitable death. i used to be of the mindset that the only way to fix america is to burn it down and start anew...which, i suppose would work, but it would require the death of the entire country, which puts any notion of 'success' into the 'highly arguable' column. if there was a civil war and we tried to 'take back' our government by force, the first thing that would happen, is the banks would close up, and the people that control ALL the wealth would pull their money out, which would bankrupt the country overnight. all anyone would have, was the money in their pockets. all the stores and businesses would close up (after being completely looted). super markets, fast food chains, restaurants and gas stations would shut down. no one would be able to drive, marshal law would be declared, power would be shut off, sewage systems would be shut off, water would be shut off....we'd be starving to death in a matter of days, and thats the truth. remember the pandemonium we went through last year when the power went out for a day and a half? it was like fucking armagedon. i couldnt leave my house, cause all i had was a quarter tank of gas and no idea when i'd be able to fill it back up. my freezer thawed out, all the food spoiled, i had nothing to eat....and that was two days. kabar and all his guns will not be able to feed the people, and without food, we die. therfor, the notion of needing guns to protect us from the government is a so short sighted, that it's blinded by its false sense of security. go ahead, take on the government...let them pry your gun from your cold dead hand...shouldnt take more than week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 as i said before, guns are not the issue, the decrepit state of our society is. in the sudan, 900,000 people were killed in 90 days with machete's fashioned out of old car parts. a lack of guns did not stop genocide. in switzerland, everyone owns automatic rifles, and yet they only have a handful of murders every year. crime is a reflection of society. fix our society, and the guns will fix themselves. don't fix society, and the guns will end it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26SidedCube Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Originally posted by seeking villian, when this top heavy tower collapses, i'd feel safer with an assault rifle too......shouldnt take more than week. Seeking's a smart guy... period. Edit: So is villain, but that last post was a well-versed rundown. Now both of you kiss my taint-cakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Ok that's better, thanks seeks... I just wanted to say though you might be right about the economy collapsing... however that is illusory. Money is simply an IOU. It is not backed by anything anymore. Why else would the economy rise or fall at the mere words of Alan Greenspan. He merely has to say "Economy, rise from you're grave!" And it does. We have all the resources we need right here. After the big money pulls out we would have everything and they would have IOU's backed by nothing because we have everything. We would have to do some trade and bartering perhaps for a while and restructuring but as a country we would survive. This is purely hypothetical however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Originally posted by seeking as i said before, guns are not the issue, the decrepit state of our society is. in the sudan, 900,000 people were killed in 90 days with machete's fashioned out of old car parts. a lack of guns did not stop genocide. in switzerland, everyone owns automatic rifles, and yet they only have a handful of murders every year. crime is a reflection of society. fix our society, and the guns will fix themselves. don't fix society, and the guns will end it. I couldn't agree more. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Give guns to the wrong people, we got big problems. I definately think we should be more active on social and economical issues worldwide.... instead of just responding to extreme incidents. A stable world is a safe and happy world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Originally posted by 26SidedCube Edit: So is villain, but that last post was a well-versed rundown. True true... I sometimes feel it is necessary to reiterate certain ideas because of their importance or to make sure everyone is on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Originally posted by villain Money is simply an IOU. It is not backed by anything anymore. We have all the resources we need right here. After the big money pulls out we would have everything and they would have IOU's backed by nothing because we have everything. We would have to do some trade and bartering perhaps for a while and restructuring but as a country we would survive. money is still backed by gold. it is also stored by very rich people in off shore bank accounts, and in cash in safes in their basements. it will still be worth something. perhaps not as much, but it will still remain relative. as for the 'resources' we have here...exactly which resources are you talking about? we have nothing. think of all the business in your area... how many actually produce something of any practical use? how many could continue to produce that usefull product if our shipping/receiving/import/export capabilities collapsed? even if you lived next to a bread factory, how are they going to get the flour? who is going to drive the truck to the 'flour plant', and with what gas? what money are they going to buy the flour with? if not money, what are they going to 'trade' for it? who is still going to be working at the flour plant to produce the flour, while their homes and families are being looted? most men can't even fix a screen door now a days, much less kill and cook their own food. people like kabar, with their paranoid delusional hubris will have one leg up on the rest of us, but it's only a matter of time until they fall as well, cause when that shit happens, it's going to be every man for himself, and because of that, everyman will fall. some will go sooner than others, but we'll all go eventually. other countries don't have the saem fragile system we do. i was in jamaica for new years 98/99, and since the whole y2k hoopla had already began, i found myself sitting there, realizing that if all the computers shut down, it wouldnt make a lick of difference to these people. they'd still fire up their grills (made out of 50 gallon drums) kill one of their chickens, and make dinner. no big deal. they wouldnt be able to run their 'sound system', but they'd just hollow out a log, make a drum, and on they'd go. villian, do you own a cell phone? do you have those phone numbers backed up on a piece of paper? i lost my cell phone one day, and i couldnt even call my fucking mom because i dont know what her cell number is. all i know is that i hit a button, say 'mom,' and it calls her. no matter how many guns i have, if that cell tower goes down, and i run out of gas, my mom lives half an hour from me (by car). that's going to be one fucknig hell of a walk just to get to her and insure she's safe. and then what? obviously, my overall point is that if it comes to the point where we need guns to get our government back, we've already lost our country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I see you're point. Let me clarify mine. Say that 1% was forced out and took all the damn money with them. So what? We will just make more money.... It's IOU's... who says people have to stop working? Essentially the 1%'s money would become worthless and ours would be good because we are still working and producing goods here.... Then we can print 100$ bills with seekings head on it and it will be all good. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milton Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Newsflash: We already have. We no longer have control of our government. Those in power do whatever they want for their terms and then drum up support by manipulating what the people see, hear, etc. The average person watches Fox News for half an hour a night and develops his worldview based solely on this propaganda. If the government was taken over by force money would be useless after probably the first day. The things that would be valueable would be gas, food, and guns. When the food ran out some would be able to go back to living off of the land, some of us would not. The top 1% can take thier paper money, it's going to be worth nothing when the bottom 99% control the gold. And by the way, you remember all of those countries world wide that hate us? Assuming that the people actually took over the government do you think they would do nothing? And by the way, a lot of us are only a few hours and a tank of gas away from Canada or Mexico... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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