OMEN TWO

I like bathrooms because you can take your time and pratice your style without looking over your shoulder. Not that I need practice...I bomb everything. Also, it depends on where the bathroom is...most writers are male anyway. Few females understand it...So, if you tag in a bathroom that other writers go into it is cool...like a train station bathroom. Or the bathroom at the parole office...lol

Well, I still won't buy off "four" the hard way...they are toooo expensive. I can get krink really cheap about half for what they sell it ar 4THW...at the shop in downtown Manhattan. You can bargin with a person face to face...we all know 8 oz of krink is hardly worth 15 bucks. My favorire marker site is liquidcrack.com They have the best and cheapest selection of the OTR line and they have a good paint selection and cap selection. I have all the miniwides and nibs to last me a lifetime. They have a very small marker selection and krink mops are a joke. This might be a better forum than peegee and there shop might be better. But, it has nothing I would ever want or pay for. I only call things as I see them.:rolleyes: ----------------------------------------------------------- <span style='color:babyblue'>Anyhow, I had a good experience with a few tags I did at an Applebees restaurant. I was there two weeks ago and bombed the bathroom. But, their stalls had a special surface than made any type of ink turn to rain drops when you tagged. So, I decided to tag on their white toilet seats (both sides). I used black garvey on one seat and violet on the other (in the next stall). When I went there today, they were able to buff their toilet seats just a little. But, there was some serious dark ghosting. It stained the plastic. When, I see a tag of mine that they "tried" to buff...no matter where it is and they have little success getting off my tags. I get this cool feeling all though my body. I guess it is the kid in me. I guess it makes me feel that I was able to beat them. They are going to have to replace their toilet seats if they want them clean. If they do, I will be there to bomb them again.:lol: They can count on it! </span>:king:

Well, That just goes to show you that I don't go to that site that often. They are really over priced and they sell things I would not use (maybe if it was half the price and they had free shipping). Three, Four, or Two is all the same to me... :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D I edited what I should have said...That way there is no hard feelings

OK LETS JUST SQUASH THIS NOW. :D By the way...Mari at art primo said they would hook you up with a nib. Because, you did not realize they did not come with a nib. The nibs at Four The Hard Way...are the new stiff types. But, the stiff types can be make just as soft of the real mini nibs. Call or write Art- Primo Art Primo (206)790-7098 E-mail: info@artprimo.com They will take care of you.

With all due respect, that remark was not called for. If you had a messed order and someone said "Awww, you poor baby." I don't think you would like it. Your not right homes..................................... :mad:

Re: ? Here is the reply I got from art-primo I appreciate you promoting our site! As far as the guy who ordered we never received any email from him. If he had asked we would have been more than happy to give him a refund. The Ultra Wides only come with the stiff nibs so there would have been no way to replace them. For the mini wides the last boxes we ordered of them came with no nibs. It clearly states on our site that the Mini Wides do not come with a nib. I am in the process of working out a deal with a distributor to order some nibs, but it will be pretty costly. I am still wondering if it is worth it to order them because if we do we would have to charge $4 per nib. Do you think that would be way to much? I don't like having expensive stuff on our site because we try to keep all of our prices low. But I wonder if it is better to have the nibs for $4 or not have them at all. Tell the guy to send us an email we can give him a refund on any thing he returns unused and he exchange the colors on the Ultra Wides if that is what he wants. I can understand that he frusterated. No one likes to feel cheated. Our website is all about honesty building great relationships with our customers. If he emails me I will do everything I can to help him out. On another note... How was the graff show you went to? I have been pretty busy lately with the website. I spend all my free time painting now that the weather has gotten better. I wish I had a digital camera so I could send you some flicks. How is all going with you? How is Min doing? Thanks for the email I appreciate you informing about stuff like this. I really want to make sure all of our customers are happy. I feel very bad when some one has an experience like that. Let me know if you have any advice. I respect your opinions a lot! Hope to hear from you soon! -Mari So, please write Mari at cheapartsupplies@hotmail.com. Tell her that Dave (me) is the one trying to help you...OK? I hope you get this resolved.

Re: ? Holy Shit! I can't believe that happened to you, that fucking sucks and I am pissed off at art primo for doing you like that. I bought like a dozen miniwides, all came with the old skool nibs and I had no problem at all. I got close with one of the people that runs that site and I asked them to yank out a whole bunch of the old skool nibs and sell them to me. They told me that the new nibs are not cream color and are stiff as hell. They said they would switch the old skool nibs and put in the new stiff nibs and sell them that way. Now, I have used the new stiff nib and I was able to really break it in very well and it is just as soft as the old skool nibs. I never got those 4oz marsh tins. They must have got them at a discount because they were messed up. I am going to copy what you said and send it to the owner/or the person in charge of sales. I know for a fact this is the first time anyone has been truly disappointed with art primo (maybe the second time). But, because, I recommended it I will write them right now too see if they can make good on your order. The person I buy from at art primo said she has a bunch of the old skool nibs, she sells to certain people upon request. I'm really sorry that happened brother. You can break in that hard nib by putting it in your ultra and take a very sturdy large needle and start to poke the top part of the Nib. At first it will be hard then the needle will go in deeper and deeper till the nib is soft and flexible. It will take a little time. But, you can make it just a good as the old skool nibs...even better. I was bombing with the new type nib today in the Bronx and had good results. Also, they don't make old skool nibs anymore and they stopped making miniwides all together because the machine that produced them broke down for good and it is too expensive to fix. But the ultrawide machine is still cranking out ultras. They have been using different color plastics to make up for the bullshit nibs they put in them nowadays. edit They use this hard felt and cut it out to fit the ultra...But, it can be softened. I got an ultrawide from urban designs and it was blue and it had that big white stiff nib....just like you got ( I think it was what you got, white big and stiff) I asked them to write me back and I said they need to give you an old school nib for your mini...they don't have or make old skool nibs for ultras anymore. But, I wrote and see what they can do. On another note...Garvey makes really good red ink.

I wonder where he is getting it. Because, I have never seen it in stores. So, if he or they are getting it on the net...why not get marsh or something if it sucks so bad for them? If they are getting in the stores...It might be counterfeit Nero. Isn't Nero a spanish company or something? I personally think it is way over priced. I would rather spend $5 more to get twice as much marsh or black garvey...if black is what you are looking for. Cause, it is like $10 and change for a little less than half a pint of nero/zero. Garvey and Marsh is only $15 and change for an entire pint.

I have been getting some cool effects with postal stickers. I have been using a marsh 99 flowpen (the all metal marker) with garvey on the stickers. The stickers are a bitch to come off most surfaces...But, for the ones that were removed...there was an imprint of my tag...sort of like a press on tattoo. So, when the sticker is removed somehow the tag from the sticker stays on the surface the sticker was on...being it was garvey...they could not buff the tag. I have never seen this happen in my life. I made up the stickers days in advance. So, the ink was dry. I have a hunch that the remover they use to take off the sticker makes the ink seep through the sticker and on to the surface. I noticed this today when I was at the metro north station, I saw where my sticker used to be and a tag...just like if I used a marker to write it directly on the wall. It was on a ticket machine and it was on a shellacked stained wood wall. I think it is cool, because when they remove the sticker, the tag is still on the surface not buffed. Just like a temp tattoo. But, the tags are not temp...Lol

Well, if that is the case...I would rather use a mini "OTR Type" flowpen. It is pretty small, it holds 5 to 6 more times ink as a chapstick container. The nib is wider and it can be drippy if you want it to be. That is just me. Because, I carry a mini flow everywhere I go and I can stash it behind my belt buckle or the cuff of my jacket sleeve after doing a tag.

It is drippy as hell....it drips just like any other ink. The only difference....it is high power industrial ink. It is not your average dye type ink. It comes in blue, black, red, green and violet. But, the violet is the all time favorite color and it stains the hardest. I have a mop in every color, except green and it drips down to the floor...depending if you want it that way, it is how you adjust the nib. My red garvey mop looks like blood when it writes and drips like a bitch. Once it dries, it has that bright deep blood look and almost impossible to buff.

Well, to be honest, everything MIN knows I know. In fact any old school New York city writer knows just about everything a person needs to know about real graffiti writing. All this making ink out of this and that is kind of a new thing, I guess becaue nowadays you really can't walk into a store and buy real graffiti stuff at low prices. When the trains became graff proof. Most of the "art" stores that sold Graff stuff went out of business. That is one of the reasons Flomaster ink went out of business and why Marsh does not make 100 different colors of ink anymore. There is not a huge market for it anymore. NYC has 10 million people and there were thosands upon thousands of graff writers during the late 70's up until the mid to late 80's. Even it is now a world wide thing...I don't think a graffiti store will make enough money to even pay the rent of the store selling markers in small towns or small cities. That is why the net has graff sites for supplies...they can sell their stuff world wide. But, even the online stores are not making a large amount of money...they just get by. Back in the days, we really did not mix up paint to make ink or do the things you guys are doing today. We had a few stores that sold every color ink you can think of, weather it by dye type or paint type. They sold the best markers and the ban roll ons were made out of glass and were perfect to make mops out of. The two major brands were Flomaster (out of business now) and Marsh. Nowadays for some reason Marsh stopped making all those colors. Anyhow, we did not have time to mix up stuff unless it was to get a different color or something. All the ink was permanent enough as where they could not buff it on most surfaces. Because, the insides were painted enamel or plastic panel. Spray paint is the big money maker nowadays. Because, you can use it on anything and it takes alot of cans to do a burner and you really can't rack paint in major cities because, it is locked up. If you live in the sticks or the hills you would have a better chance of racking paint. But, how long will that last...till they start to lock it up. @Chumb. It seems Garvey is the best...you really don't need to mix it with anything. Apply it thickly with a mop and let it dry...Then it will really stick. Because, you are just using a pen/marker that does not pour it on thick. So, imagine what I juicy mop would do with Garvey in it...Alot more comes out making the tag thicker with ink:king:

You hit the nail on the head Brother. Some people only wait a short while before they do the buff test. Like anything, you have to let it set in and dry to the core. The longer you leave it...the harder is to buff. For example. When you use a paint type marker...you have to really let it dry like for over 24 hours...till it is set. Because, paint markers are almost like regular paint, so if you use enamel paint. It takes quite a while to dry till it is ready to walk on. Like a gray paint on a floor for outside use. You can't walk on it ten minutes after you spread the paint. So, if you try to buff it...of course it will buff easier then if it is fully set. Good point homes.

My wife and I took a drive downtown and the first person I bumped into was Phase 2. He looked like he was pushing 50! The place was full of people with cameras and writers and browsers, then in one corner of the gallery were my people. Min and I had not seen each other in over 10 years. I did not recognize him at first because he got so fat and was balding. When we hugged each other we talked privately for about 30 minutes and then we wondered back to the corner. Kel, Shock, IZ, Stay High & Dead Leg, Danger 59, Nicer, Sec, Boe, Tracy 168, Zeph, Blade, Quik, Doze...Even Lady Pink (she had gray streaks in her hair...Lol) was there and many more writers that I never met but heard of, were also there. Some writers I never heard of at all were there...some were coming in from Pa. and different states around the city. The writers I was hanging with were the ones that I grew up with. I basically stayed with the RTW bunch from Broadway at the show. I exchanged a lot of phone numbers. But, my main reason for going was to hook up with Min One (Wayne). We are going to hook up more often now we know each others phone number. Crash, Duro and some other writers were able to sell canvass to art collectors. Then a few writers I never heard of were able to sell canvass as well. After about an hour and a half, I decided that I had enough. But, it was good to see filmier faces and make new friends as well. They did not let us tag on the walls. However, they put up a piece of painted dry wall for use to sign as we came in. I brought a mini flow pen. I was careful not to let it drip on other tags. They had a few pilots for people to use...even non-writers tagged (toys) on it. But, it was more of a money making thing. Drinks were $7 a pop and a cup of beer was $5. Duro put the whole thing together. Now, that I have phone numbers for a few of my old school friends I won't be going to a show for a long time to come. It was really hard to find a parking space, we had to park like 5 blocks away. But, all in all...I am glad we went.:king:

I still think Garvey is the toughest staining ink ever made. Now, Garvey will sometimes repel (cool tag name) on a few surfaces. For example, I tried to tag with my mini that had garvey on a magazine that was really glossy and it repelled like rain drops (I am sure a Garvey user has had this happen) But, I took my Marsh mini and I had no repelling. But then, I used my Garvey Mini on this painted metal bathroom stall and I used my Marsh Mini on the other side the next day. The stall already had tags on it from pilots and paint markers, etc.; A week later all the tags were buffed. But, they could not even smudge the Garvey at all. So, it depends on the type of surface you use it on...That goes for everything. The Garvey bonded to this orange metal...the metal was shiny so the tags were shiny. I was there last Thursday and the tags were still on the stall. They painted over the tags on the white wall in the stall. But, you could still see my tag clear as day...they need to use a primer coat first to remove a garvey tag from a painted wall. I think the only reason they did not paint the orange metal stalls. Is because, if they did, they would have to use a primer coat then repaint it. But, if they did that...then any marker would stick to the stalls...Regardless of the brand. If it is regular dye type ink...it will seep into the enamel paint and they would have to keep repainting the stalls over and over again. The plastic panels on the buses and on the bus shelters behind the glass where they put ads on is not Garvey proof. If you use garvey on those type of plastics. IT WILL NOT COME OFF. Someone broke the glass on a bus shelter and I removed the ad and did a large tag on the plastic. They could not buff it, they put a new ad on top of the plastic and put a new piece of glass and you can see my tag behind the glass when the light goes on at night and during the day too. But, you can really see it at night...Talk about permanent...that is the best place for a tag. Because, it is in lights behind glass....Lol

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Use hair spray...I have been using it for a long time now to get it off my skin. It dissolves it somewhat. Try to use the old fashion Aqua-net hairspray. That is the mac daddy of hair spray. It could be used to clean off ink that is not on your skin. 90% of the time, if you are using REAL ink...you can get most of it off your skin...you have to just let the rest ware off. Having clean hands (ink free) while using ink to bomb is the key to not get popped. Also, try to keep it off the bottom of your sneakers/shoes (tops too) I remember we just finished destroying the 1 lay-up on Broadway. We destroyed the insides of every subway car. Being we were all using mops and when we ran out we refilled them while we were in the trains. A lot of ink got on the floor of the train. It got on the floor from the drips as well. We wore those heavy duty yellow dish washing gloves. So, we were careful. When all the ink was gone we junked everything in the tunnel. Then we went top the platform to wait for a train to take us downtown and we were ink free. Then all of a sudden 6 undercover cops walked toward us and took out their badges that hung around their necks and they shook us down for ink and markers the looked at our hands and we were clean. But, they new we were writers because it was 4 am on a Sunday morning and we were next to the lay up. So, the sergeant told us to show the bottom of our sneakers. Sure enough we all had ink on our soles. They took us in. But, the case was thrown out, Because, they did not see us bombing, they found no ink or markers...Our lawyer said that the ink on the bottom of our shoes could have come from anywhere. So, we got off the hook. The cops that brought us in were pissed.:lol:U

Yea, those flow pens are really nice....I always have one on me. Just so I can tag whenever or wherever...without carrying a big mop around. I like the mini flow pens for everyday carrying...I take it with me just like I would take my keys with me. Marsh mixes good with Garvey...I took a little of violet Garvey and added it with some white opaque marsh. So, the color is great and even if they are able to buff the paint ink...The Garvey still stays. Mixing up ink to make different colors is cool. But, to add break fluid to an ink that is already almost impossible to buff is not worth it. Because, like I said it might screw up the original components of the high grade industrial ink. It is fine without break fluid. But, if you are going to mix ink to get a different color...that is cool.

You don't need to add a thing to Garvey...Adding break fluid or anything will most likely mess up the original components. There is nothing more staining than Garvey. So, to add anything won't make sense. The chemists at the Garvey company made Garvey ink for heavy duty industrial uses. I'm pretty sure if an experienced chemist could make Garvey any more permanent than it is...they would have put break fluid in it. Garvey is hard-core price stamping ink...not regular permanent ink. It is strictly for industrial uses. The market wanted an ink that was nearly impossible to remove. So, the makers at Garvey came out with their product. OK, on some surfaces it is easier to get off than other surfaces. But, you can make the most doctored home ink and it still won't be a powerful as Garvey. Anyone who has used Garvey will tell you this...It just won't come off most surfaces. When they "try" to buff it. They realize after 3 minutes that nothing will remove Garvey. It dyes and seeps into the surface you write on and becomes a part of what you wrote on. Also, not only is Garvey the most hard-core staining ink. But, you can get a whole pint for about 15 bucks. So, you get the best deal too. It is cheaper to get a pint of Garvey, then to spend money on ingredients to make ink that will never be as good as Garvey. I know I sound like a Garvey salesman...But, I just want to see you guys get the best ink made and not waste your money on inferior products, or waste your money on stuff that will make an inferior product.

I have no idea what you are talking about...I have a really nice Krink mop made from an ARRID XX container and a wide eraser strip as the nib. It works better than those bullshit so called mops Krink makes. The nib is wider, it drips better, you do not have to add any pressure at all when you tag and they have screw on caps. By the way, what is a chalk eraser? Or do you mean chalkboard felt eraser? Because, chalk will not absorb a dam thing. On another note...I never heard or used the term nib before I used the internet. We never called marker tips nibs. We simply called them tips. For examply "eraser tip" The top part of a marker is the tip. Hence, the tip is what you write with. We even called mini nibs, mini tips...I guess it is a new school thing:D

Those are not really mops rubbish...They are cheap shoe polish applicators. I guess the new generation of writers thinks a shoe polish applicator is a mop. They are a poor mans tagging tool. We never called shoe polish apps--mops A mop is a homemade eraser strip marker that is very wide and very drippy, as where you do not need to apply any pressure to write and the ink flows out very drippy and all. When I get a new web cam I will show you what a mop is and what a tag looks like with a real mop. I should not do this. Because, I will be giving away the old skool secret (plus, I want to sell them on ebay). But, I can't stand hearing about shoe polish apps with cheap foam rubber nibs being referred as graffiti mops. But, I guess if you never saw a real mop one can only assume a shoe polish app is a mop. I have a gut feeling you know what I mean rubbish:) It is a shame they do not make ban roll on deodorants out of glass anymore. But, the Arrid XX is the last of the roll ons that will make a real bonifide NYC mop. They are fooling alot people when Krink calls their shoe polish applicator filled with krink, a mop. The krink "mops" suck. They are just shoe polish apps with krink. But, if you switch the nib with a a folded eraser strip...you can call it a mop. And if that is the case. You can get those 4oz shoe polish apps at any supermarket, throw away the foam rubber "nib" pour out that chalky shoe polish, and refill it with real ink and shove a folded felt eraser strip in it...for free. Well, almost free. You can get a 6 strip eraser for like a $1.40...Hence, it makes six real mops. REAL mops are drippy as hell, wide as hell, no pressure to write and have a screw on cap. Not only that, the eraser nib/strip will last for a long long long long time.

You are right...there is something about garvey that makes it almost impossible to buff on a lot of surfaces...it is like the garvey becomes part of what you used it on...nothing can compare to it. I think one of the main reasons, is it is not your typical graffiti ink...it is a high powered industrial price stamping ink...if you look on the bottom of a soda can you will see numbers stamped in ink...it does not come off the can...no matter how hard you rub. When it is used in a marker...it gets put on the surface alot more than a simple stamp. So, no wonder it does not come off...try it on plastic or metals that are factory painted...IT WILL NOT SMUDGE. Also, on some paint type inks or krink...you sometimes want to wait a long time before you try to buff it...like all paint...it takes some time to dry quick...So, try your paint ink, wait a day then try to buff it. Dye ink is just what it is...DYE! If you want long lasting tags...use spray paint on brick, cement buildings, etc; Spray paint is a bitch to get off that type of stuff...they have to use a sand blaster. So, for your needs...don't mess with ink...use spray paint. Get silver and get flat black....either krylon or rusto. It does not matter what you really use as long as it is spray paint, get a fat cap and you will have giant tags that will stay up for awhile.

I don't have a problem spending a 100 or even 200 dollars on class A primo ink and markers. Sure, if I was 20 years younger I would not have money to spend. But, if any of you guys had plenty of cash. You would be getting primo markers and primo ink. You know it and I know it. Sure a wood craft works. But, I would rather have an OTR Copper, Silver, Gold, Blue, Red, Green, Metallic Blue, Metallic Red, Etc, Etc, Etc paint markers. When I was young I did not have a hundred bucks to drop on a bunch of high grade markers. I was lucky to have one miniwide. That is one of the reasons we all made mops with City chalkboard board erasers. The only thing we paid for was Flomaster and Marsh Ink it came in 4 oz metal containers and we could flood a few mops with one can and the can was like 3 bucks. Even today nothing is better than an eraser strip mop with the right kind of ink. But, I do like the OTR line for different type of bombing. I totally respect the fact that you have to make due with what you can afford. Shit, money is hard to come by when you are young. I had to go to collage to get the type of money that we have coming in nowadays. My wife just bought a $3000 king size mattress yesterday. We got it for $2300 on sale. But, spending over 2 grand on a mattress is nuts. But, it is what she wanted. So, if I spend a hundred bucks here and there on graff supplies, it makes me happy and I won't miss the cash. Do what you have to do. Just don't get pinched. I got pinched a few times racking graff shit back in the late 70's and 80's. But, that did not stop me. I was on a mission to destroy shit and continued to do what I had to do to get mine. I just never mixed ink or made ink. Because, Flomaster and Marsh was hard to buff on the insides of the plastic panels in the subways. It was also hard to buff on the inside of the painted surfaces of the trains. So, it was all good and both Flomaster and Marsh had over 100 different colors in both opaque paint and dye type ink. Those were the good ole days:) To me it is not a waste of money to get the things that make you happy. We only have one life to live and if a person has the cash...why not get the things you want? Everyone has their hobbies that can be costly.:D

That is kind of a very strange thing to say about us jumping around a fire with garvey in it at a graff gathering...No, we do not do this...this is NYC not a cali beach. We gather in upscale art galleries in the lower east side of Manhattan...we have wine and caviar and show off our work and talk about the old days of subway graff... Hey chumb...you may be correct about not being able to get in the show, because they will be serving booze there... I have spent a couple hundred dollars at the liquid crack site above on their OTR line. I bought every single OTR marker they have...I bought more than one of the same of their best colors. It is easy to drop a hundred bucks on one order of markers...if I get like 14 in one shot. But you are correct...you can get mini flowpens for only $3.50 each. Urban designz charges $5.95 for a miniflow pen. I only have like 7 or 8 mini flow pens. Because, I use them more for my own ink. So, when they run out I refill them with the good stuff...the big ones are good because they last. But, the minis are cool to have to carry around discreetly...I also have a lot of replacement nibs...those are the most important...Once you put in a new nib, it is like a new marker.

I never really counted how many tags I get from a mini flow pen. But, I have always been satisfied with them....if I am not going on a bombing mission...I always carry a mini flowpen. I never ran out and when I noticed I was runny low on ink...it would take me 30 seconds to refill it full...Ready to hit up more tags. I have not had to fill it in 2 weeks and I can't count how many tags I made with it. I have the marsh 99 all metal flow pen...it is a really nice pen. It is not super fat...but it is great for small tags and stickers and of course it has garvey in it. Check it out. It cost 15 bucks but this bad boy will last forever. MARSH 99 FLOWPEN...CLICK HERE The other forum was like a kindergarten of toys, brats, liars, assholes, and it had no supervision what so ever. Lets say a person made a good post. Then you would get a reply from an 11 year old saying "you are gay." For no reason at all. How can anyone post on a forum like that? So, I gave up and came here

I'm sad to say that Urban Designz does not have it in stock anymore. In fact, they have not had it in stock for about a year. I don't think they are getting anymore in ever. They just have a picture of it in 8oz containers. One black and one violet.