OMEN TWO

I can't believe I am really explaining how to make a mop out of a roll on container....common sense alone explains it. Anyhow, get the type of roll on container that has the ring that holds the ball. pop off the ring and the ball will come off too...you can't just use any roll on container....25 years ago, when I started making them, roll on containers were all glass and the ball was held on with a plastic ring that fit at the top of the container....now everything is plastic so most of them do not have that detachable ring....except the Arrid xx, it is a blue container. So, after you take the ring and the ball off...pour out the deodorant rinse the container and dry it well. Get a chalk board eraser and tear off a strip of the felt, most erasers have 6 strips. Take the strip and fold it in half and put it in where the ball used to be...put it in after you fill your container up with real ink, not griffin but Marsh or Garvey, etc.; fill it a little more than 2 thirds, that way your ink will not flood out when you are putting in your eraser. The wider eraser the better. Below is the best eraser for making mops. The first one is good for fat mops and the second one is good for regular size mops, it is also good for griffin containers, take off that bull shit foam rubber nib and fold an eraser strip in half and put it in where the nib goes. http://image.misterart.com/grouppix/528x352/7000/g7898.jpg'> http://image.misterart.com/grouppix/528x352/2000/g2500.jpg'>

Why Not?

I just found a very easy way to refill Magnum .44 Markers. I took a 3cc hypodermic syringe from an ink refill kit for printer ink and drew up the ink up to the syringe part and took the long needle that is attached to the syringe and stuck between the nib and the marker and stuck it down as far as it could go (about 2 inches) and injected the ink. I only had to inject it twice till the nib was juicy with ink and the marker was a lot heavier because it was full of violet garvey. It is not 100% violet because it mixed with the remaining black ink that was in the Magnum. But, it did the job. I did not make a mess, I did not need gloves and now I have a nice magnum full of garvey. It is much better than using pliers and then crimping it then gluing it. I swiped about 6 syringes from the ink kits at Comp. USA. So, this should be useful for people who want to refill their Magnums.

Re: Re: inks... Word....once a mag runs out of ink I just throw it away....you can get them for $2.99. He must not know about pilots........

Being I have 16 miniwides I decided to try krink in one....It works but not too well. I had to hold the mini till the krink ran to the nib and I could somewhat get a decent tag on a very dark surface....as far as the mop....I would never buy a KR mop with krink. First the nib is bullshit....it is that foam rubber type that will fall apart in the first 3 tags. I got myself the same exact mop containers from rite aid, the 4 oz round ones. I took off that bullshit foam rubber nib and poured the shoe polish into the toilet and rinsed it clean and dried it. then I took an eraser strip folded it in half and put it in for the nib....I did that after I put the krink in of course and it works very nicely....each tag drips like crazy. You have to shake the mop up before you use it. Otherwise it won't come out right. I have been getting able to get the 32oz containers of krink for 35 bucks....I know that seems like a lot of money but I have a pretty good income....So, to me it's is nothing. Plus, it beats paying 15 bucks for only 8 oz's...that means 16 oz's of krink cost like 30 bucks. But, I get it downtown in Manhattan and they give it to me cheaper than if I bought it on the net....It does work in OTR type flow pens...you just need to shake it before you tag. With the mini I put the krink in....I flushed the krink out with garvey and it looks pretty cool....it has silver sparkles when I tag with it. I also put a few drops of violet garvey into a white OTR paint marker and it rocks! Krink

Aside from the best ink which is Garvey of course, You have krink and marsh. Also, black pilot ink is good....griffin sucks but it is better than nothing if you don't have to nickles to make a dime. The OTR line of markers are pretty good and piolets are just OK The best tagging marker in the world is the mini ultrawide. They stopped making them because the machine that made them broke down never to be fixed again. So, if you don't have a mini, I feel bad for you guys...anyone who has one and has used one will tell you it is the best. Rubbish don't blow up the mini spot:) http://www.artprimo.com/miniwide.jpg'>

Hmmmmmm. I guess you are right. Being I live in The Big Apple, a misdemeanor stays a misdemeanor, unless the damage exceeds $1,200. Then if the damage exceeds $1,200 it "could" be a felony arrest. Only to be pled back down to a misdemeanor . The reason for this is because when we are dealing with a city of 10 million people. They don't have the bed space in their jails for low level crime. But, if you go to rural states and counties I can see where it can become a big deal...a graff tag might even make the headlines in the news paper in some areas. I sometimes forget that graff is world wide now. When I started it, it was mainly a NYC thing. It was unheard of anyplace outside of the city. Sure, you had people using spray paint in small towns with people writing Jimmy loves Patty or AC/DC rules. But, that is a far as it went. Then a few masters from NYC went to LA and other places around the states and the world. Movies were made, books were made about NY graffiti and nowadays you can find it on a farm in Idaho or even in Russia or China. :cool:

Re: cheers for the reply You are not wasting my time....I enjoy helping out the younger generation of writers. I was on an other forum and I had a lot to share. Everything I say you can bank on. I have no reason to lie. I was no all city king But, I am an old school New York City writer than know and bombed with famous writers. I was more of an inside writer than did just a few pieces on a few cars. Being I had so much to say and most had not one thing to add when it came to graffiti. They went out of their way to call me a phony, they even called me a fag...How childish is that? This is all because I took my time and wrote about the people I knew the things I know and I gave out very helpful hints on how to tag or bomb. I started getting tag teamed by a bunch of toys that only bombed the back of their local gas station in the hills where they live. It was at that point I decided to never come back to that forum ever again. I have never told a lie about a dam thing...I am too old to play games. People can take what I have to say for anything it is worth. It seems we don't have a bunch of child like toys on this forum. We have people that want to learn a thing or too about graffiti from a person who has been doing this 25 years. Omen is not what I used to tag. I am using Omen simply as a user name. When used my real name, some dudes said they never heard of me or they said I was not who I said I was. It makes sense because I was writing well before most of these writers were born and most did not come from NYC. A lot of them were ganging up on me...because they were the ones that were nobodies. They are the ones that nobody has ever heard of. They are the ones that never wrote on a subway...or rode on a subway for that matter. They spent more time analyzing my posts than anything else. I never bragged about anything I did...I only spoke the truth and I guess that was too much for them to handle. That forum had alot of members and I can safely say not one of them has been heard of by anyone in the real graff world, I never heard of one single person on that forum and they had the nerve to diss me? They were all toys and did not want to learn a fucking thing. This forum has a bunch of mature people that want to exchange thoughts and ideas without calling each other fags. I was told to come here by someone who respected me and I have not had any problems since. Back to your question...They do not sell Garvey in stores. It is only sold in one place and that is from the garvey corporation in the US or maybe you will get lucky and find a container on ebay. I sell it because I get it by the case (pint containers of blue and violet) and I jack the price up on it so it almost pays for my own ink. People are willing to pay more for it because I hand it right to them. I sell a pint for 24 dollars and that is a fair price...they are not paying for shipping or they don't have to wait for it. They come to my house and give me the 24 bucks and I give them a pint of the best ink in the world. Nobody loses and everyone is happy....The only problem is I don't ship. Your best bet is to get marsh and garvey off the net...ask your mother to charge it and give her the money. Also, don't do anything to it. Just use it as it comes. Doing things to it will just fuck it up. As for leather dye just use it the way it comes...don't mess with the original components. If you can't get your hands on marsh or garvey. Use griffin, you can get that where they sell shoe products. If you can't get any ink or dye...Just use spray paint :cool:

Just wondering.....why? If you can talk about brake fluid why not the other thing...I will keep it on the down low...But, it is not like we are teaching each other how to kill someone....this is science ....it all is. People are still going to use the stuff if we talk about it here or not...it is just better to have someone that has experience with it, to talk about how to use it, so that way it is used the right way. Otherwise, if a person has no idea what he is getting into, then he might get himself hurt. I remember I asked a buddy of mine why he taught a kid how to shoot heroin. My buddy said the kid already had a habit by snorting heroin and if someone does not teach him how to use a needle. He is going to try to use one anyway. So, being he is already going to use a needle regardless if he is shown or not. You might as well show him...that way he does it right and does not kill himself...Like shoot an air bubble in his vain, that will go to his brain...or put too much heroin in. Same difference...No? Kids are still going to use it anyway and because they have no idea what they are doing. They are at a risk of really hurting themselves...blinding themselves, burning themselves or an explosion can happen. All because we kept our mouths shut. I am sure anyone will agree on what I said. But, I don't want to cause any problems on this board. So, I won't bring it up again. Knowledge is power though. In closing....to anyone that is thinking of trying it...Please don't. It will only make alot of problems for yourself...You might think you know what you are doing. But, you really don't know. Especially if you are under 18 years of age...if your that young. You are still new at this. Just stick with the kinds of inks I have been talking about and don't risk your life for a graffiti tag...it is not worth it....nothing is worth getting blind over or worse.

If you want to go that route simply get etch bath...or hydro acid. The only problem with that, is you have to use metal containers for your mops for the hydro. Otherwise it will melt your plastics and be prepared to go through ALOT of nibs or home made nibs from chalkboard erasers. Because, it will also tear up your felt. Also, your color will not look that fresh at all. It will look dull and pasty. You simply need a dye type ink. If you go with dye type just get black marsh or violet garvey....there is nothing you can compare them to, There is nothing you can make that will be better. NOTHING! Trust me, it took me over 20 years looking for the perfect ink and I have done it all and tried everything, every combo. I have finally come to the conclusion that Garvey Violet or Blue is the best dye type ink. Ask anyone that has used it...ask them how hard it is to even get off your hands....the shit is gravy (not Garvey....GRAVY!) Garvey is Gravy...the best of them all. Marsh Black T-Grade comes in second. I know Garvey is hard to find...But, once you get your hands on it DO NOT WASTE IT by trying to enhance it. You will just fuck it up. There is nothing that you can make that is better and the imitations don't even come close. I have nothing to gain by telling you this...I don't work for Garvey. I just want to see the younger writers not waste their time with bullshit. If you can't get Garvey...try to get marsh, if you can't get marsh...get black pilot ink....only black and you will be OK. Just don't fuck with it. If you have to use griffin...just use it the way it comes....don't mess with it...you will just fuck it up....if you can't get ink, then bomb with spray paint....that works on anything.:cool:

Re: ink ink ink From over 20 years of bombing and experimenting with every single type of ink and mixture you can think of. I have determined to not mess with the inks original components...unless you have no money and very shitty ink. Your best bet is to get your hands on high grade ink and just leave it alone. Get ink like Garvey or Marsh Paint or Dye type ink. Put it in your favorite flowpen, marker or mop and get up. The more you get up the better you get. Trying to make permanent ink more permanent is just a waste of time and it is messy. Like I said many times. The chemists at these ink companies make their ink as permanent as possible. (some are just better than others, because some use better ingredients and some use cheaper ingredients to make it cheaper). As the saying goes "you get what you pay for." Sure, it may be fun to mess around with ink. But a real graff writer puts in more time practicing their handstyle and getting up. If you have good ink and a good marker, then you are all set...the only thing left is getting up and making your style phat. That is just how I see it and other people I bombed with showed me. But, it that is what you are into and it makes you happy, that is all that matters.

Thats the ones I am talking about...the 100w. They have the mini size and the large size. But, the nibs are the same size.

Yea, I would not go out of my to get a Sanford...they are in the same class as el-markos and marks-a-lot. If the one you found works cool. They are considered "toy boy" markers I would rather have a Magnum which is made by Sanford by the way. But, you can't refill mags that well. Your best bet is to go with a pilot...I used to take out the felt on the pilots and stuff felt or cotton on the sides to keep the ink from just pouring out. But, when you carry a pilot with no felt inside...make sure it is always upright...because, in a few seconds the ink will flood through the cotton or extra felt you used to stuff the sides of the nib. But, that marker you found seems to be OK, which is surprising.

That is a nice find...I used to find a lot of stuff like that when cops used to raid the yards. I used to scoop up what the other writers left so the cops could not find it on them. I used to come off with sacks of Rusto and Krylon...Pints of flomaster, uniwide and miniwides...you name it. I even found a brand new pair of Kazal glasses solid gold (they were in style back then), just the frames no glass in the glasses. As far as sanford king size deluxe, you can get them mostly at any k-mart, rite aid, CVS, type drug stores. Just go to where they sell school/art supplies and go to where the markers are. I even got a few white large 100w big Pentel markers at rite aid. Who would think rite aid would sell white pentels. Being I make a good living and have plenty of credit cards and cash...I don't bother trying to steal anything nowadays. When I had nothing to lose and I was a teenager I racked everything...except the stuff that was either locked up or locked behind glass at the counter. I am 37 years old and I just could not picture myself getting pinched for a marker or a few cans of paint. I have too much to lose. Besides I can afford it. I could spend $100 on graff stuff and not even miss the $100. But, if you are young and know what you are doing and you don't have any money and if you want graff stuff, you have to rack or vamp other writers. :rolleyes:

Anyhow, it is not even worth getting these old inks.... Especially if you intend on using it. It is just for trading purposes. Flomaster was all we used back in the days. It came in 4oz and pint containers. They had so many colors that I can't name them all. You could get at the local graff store for like a $1.99 for 4oz. it was worth it. Too bad they stopped making it:(

By the way. Garvey, Marsh T-Grade "Dye Type," OTR-Hard To Buff, Pilot Ink, Nero, are all transparent inks. That does not mean that they are not dark as hell on things you can't see through. But, if you cover a piece of glass with the above inks, and shine a light through the glass...you will see the light...It will just be very dim. But, if you use paint/opeque ink and cover the glass. You should not be able to shine any light through it at all.

What it means when they say transparent, means it is not a paint or opaque type ink. That's all. With the transparent, it is thinner and flows better. It is just as black on a wall. But, if you use it on glass it will be dark to the point that you can hardly see through it...But, if you use paint/opeque ink. It is a solid black and if it is used on glass. and you covered the whole window with marsh opaque. No light will shine through at all. I would rather use the transparent...Because, it is a dye type ink and it is drippy as hell. @rubbish...Good find!

It is not worth it...Especially, if you want it to actually use it...it is for collectors, like people who collect fine wine. It is only one once, it looks to be 25 to 30 years old. I remember getting a container of 4 oz marsh that was on the shelf for 6 years and it was only 2 thirds full...Plus, the ink did not really flow that well. You are better off not getting ink that is that old...unless you are collecting it and not using it to tag with. 1 once is not even enough to do shit...you would be better off getting a 3 dollar container of black pilot ink...that stuff is pretty good by the way...But, only the black.

You are right about the Marsh paint ink being a little pricy. But, the Marsh T-Grade Dye Type Black (below) is a pretty good deal....you get a whole pint for about 15 bucks. It is better than Nero and OTR hard to buff and you get twice as much for about 5 bucks more...15 bucks for a pint of any good ink is a good price. T-Grade Dye Type Black Marsh,,,15 bucks a pint, click here.

You will be very happy with a pint of black marsh T-Grade Dye type ink you can get at urban designz...get it while you get the flow pens...They also have the White Marsh too. Marsh T-Grade...click here Marsh Paint Ink....Da Joint....click here

Fuck OTR....get empty bombing flow pens from urban designz. They are exactly the same as OTR, same size same nibs and are cheaper...Put your Garvey or whatever in them and get busy. Empty Flow Pens...Urban Designz ps, If you really want vintage lead die hard ink try to find Flomaster....it is better than Marsh...Not only is it not made anymore...The company is not around anymore. So, you would really score with a pint or two of Flomaster.

Exactly! White Marsh...mix it with your purple Garvey, or any type of permanent green, red, blue, etc; and you will have very fresh colors. Best for mops!!!!!!!!

Whatever works for you....in time you will focus more on your handstyle then mixing up different inks. The name of the game is style and getting up. If you mix up ink...mix up ink that will give you a fresh color like white with purple, or white with red....always use white as your base and add just one color, like green, blue, red, purple. You are not going to make it any more permanent, if that is what is what you are trying to do. The chemists that have been making ink for years and years make it as permanent as possible. If there was a way to make it more permanent...they would do it. Some ink is better than others...that's all. If you have garbage ink like indian ink or some bullshit....then I can see trying to improve it. If you have top notch ink...your best bet is to just leave it alone and get up. That is how I see it...everyone is different though. Plus, if a person is on a mission to buff your tags....it is going to get buffed regardless of what you use. Mixing up ink, like trying to enhance Garvey will just fuck up the original components of the ink...and you wind up with shitty wasted ink. But, if that is your thing...then go for it. Soon you will realize getting up and improving your handstyle is the most important part of graff. Stay up.:cool:

Being I told rubbish about Garvey in the first place and he has been doing a good job letting you guys in on it. I can personally say, after using Garvey for over 25 years. There is really nothing you can compare to it. It is made for putting prices directly on things like metal and glass and it is made not to come off or smudge off. feibings is a leather dye...not price stamping ink. So of course Garvey is going to be somewhat better for graff writing than leather dye. Although if you can't get your hands on Garvey...and you are looking for a staining "dye" type ink, feibings will have to do. It stains and works OK. But, just keep it in mind it is made mainly for leather, it is not stamping type ink dye. If you bought fiebings you should be satisfied with the outcome though. But, nothing can compare to Garvey violet/blue. There is just something about the way they make it, that makes it extremely hard to come off things...even on glass and metal. fiebings can be rubbed off glass and metal with basic paint thinner type solvents. If you tag on acrylic type plastics like the kind of glass that is used on buses and subways, Garvey will be a bitch to get off compared to fiebings, unless you are tagging on a porous type surface. Don't bother mixing. Just get one of these inks and bomb and practice your handstyle. You can't go wrong with the below Ink/Dye. Just Bomb!!!!!! Fiebings Leather Dye....Click Here Garvey Ink...Click Here Krink Silver Ink...Click Here Marsh T-Grade Dye Type Ink...Click Here

WELL, THE BEST INK ASIDE FROM GARVEY WAS FLOMASTER AND MARSH CAME IN SECOND....BACK THEN, MARSH AND FLOMASTER HAD EVERY SINGLE COLOR OF LEAD BASED PIGMENT DYE INK AND REALLY GOOD OPAQUE/OPEC INK. THEY HAD SILVER, GOLD, COPPER, WHITE, GREEN, BLUE, RED, PURPLE, PINK, ETC; THEN IF YOU MIXED WHITE WITH PURPLE, YOU HAD A REALLY COOL LOOKING COLOR. THEY WERE ALL HARD TO BUFF...EVEN ON GLASS. WE WERE NOT ABLE TO GET GARVEY THAT EASY...UNLESS YOU WORKED AT A SUPERMARKET OR WERE ABLE TO STEAL IT FROM THE SUPPLIES AREA AT THE MANAGES DESK AT THE MARKET...IT WAS A TREAT TO GET IT...9 OUT OF 10 TIMES THE CONTAINER WAS ALREADY OPEN AND STAINED....BUT BEING MARSH AND FLOMASTER WAS SO GOOD AND EASY TO GET AT THE LOCAL GRAFF STORE ON BROADWAY...WE NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT USING SHOE DYE LIKE GRIFFIN, UNLESS WE ONLY HAD 69 CENTS TO SPEND. OR WE JUST STOLE IT TO DO TOY TAGS...BECAUSE IT WAS SO CHINSY. THE MARSH AND FLOMASTER WAS KEPT BEHIND GLASS IN PINT AND 4OZ CONTAINERS. SO WE WOULD GET A FEW CANS OF EACH COLOR. NOW MARSH HAS VERY FEW PAINT TYPE INK COLORS NOWADAYS. BUT, I HAVE BEEN USING THE BLACK MARSH DYE TYPE T-GRADE INK AND IT REALLY SMELLS STRONG, IT STAINS GOOD AND IT IS BETTER THAN ANY GRIFFIN, OTR .407 HARD TO BUFF OR NERO INK...THE NERO AND OTR INKS ARE OVER PRICED...YOU ONLY GET HALF A PINT OR LESS FOR OVER 10 BUCKS AND WITH THE MARSH YOU CAN GET A WHOLE PINT FOR 15 BUCKS. IT DRIPS WELL, IT WORKS WELL IN ALL MARKERS AND MOPS AND IT LOOKS LIKE ENAMEL ONCE IT DRIES....SO, I WOULD GO WITH THE MARSH DYE TYPE, IF YOU WANT GOOD BLACK INK....EITHER WAY, IT WILL GET BUFFED REGARDLESS HOW STRONG THE INK IS...IF THEY ARE THAT HELL BENT ON BUFFING IT, THEY WILL USE A SAND BLASTER OR WHATEVER...LOL SO PEOPLE SHOULD STOP WASTING THEIR TIME MIXING UP INK AND JUST GET GOOD INK...IT MAKES THINGS ALOT EASIER AND LESS MESSY. SPEND MORE TIME ON YOUR HANDSTYLE...IF YOU HAVE GOOD INK...YOU WILL BE OK. :cool: