OMEN TWO

It is...I don't have to check the label. Because, I have been mixing Marsh pigment with dye type for over 20 years and had nothing but fresh everlasting ink. Cool colors, hard to buff and it never fades. Using straight up pigmeant Marsh (without mixing) will stay up and shine for years outdoors also (but, hooking it up with dye type ink will give it more staining power to pourous surfaces)...take my word for it. Now I have a question. I've been sitting on a couple bottles of fiebings leather stain for a couple years, not knowing what to do with it. i tried using it once way back, and it just kind of beaded up on the box i was writing on, and didn't do anything worthwhile. What should I mix it with to get it to work better? Pilot? Griffin? Stamp Ink? If I can't use it on any surface, it's no good to me. Quoted post It will "bead up" meaning it looks like rain drops when you write on non porous surfaces...Garvey does the same thing. Like if you have a really glossy magazine, it will "bead up" and not stick. But, if you go to a painted surface like a wall or a plastic surface that is not treated with any gloss...a porous material....it will sink in and stain. You don't need to do anything with your fiebings. There are different inks for different surfaces. Just use it on a different more absorbent surface and you will get results.

The 'tagsters' are OK and are in between a miniwide and an Ultra wide and are easy to refill. Only problem is they are hard to stash and once the nib is warn...thats it. So, I stick with the miniwides.

13 inch Italian Stilettos http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture037.jpg

Other Stuff. http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture036.jpg

The first link is where I got all of my Garvey...I have an account with them and would call to tell them what I wanted direct without having to go to the website. However, they are not showing all the colors and they are not showing the different sizes, like 4oz and 16oz. It seems they are only showing 8oz in Violet, Blue & Black (they have the F-300 in violet & Green...But, I never used the F-300). So, I don't know what is going on. Before, they showed pints of Red, Black, Blue, Green and of course Violet in all sizes from 4oz up to gallon bottles. But, if I called needing some I am sure I could get what I needed. On another note. Someone like yourself would be better off using "Art-Primo" to get Garvey and that is on he second link. Their prices are not bad at all. If you shop there ask for Mari and tell them Dave from New York City sent you. http://www.garveyproducts.com/inks.htm http://www.artprimo.com/refill_inks.htm Some other stuff Mini nibs...second row is the old skool nibs top row is replacement new mini nibs and OTR nibs http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture019_1.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture020_1.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture021_1.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture017_1.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture022_2.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture015.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture016.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture014.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture023_2.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture034.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture033_1.jpg 13 inch Italian Stilettos http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture037.jpg

You can do alot with making garvey pigmented...yet keeping it eletric looking. You would suprised how nice one third white pigment and two thirds violet garvey looks...It is a "phat" color that will last forever. But, you can also get Pigmented violet marsh and mix it with violet garvey and you will have the exact color you are looking for...that will never fade on the streets. Then you can darken the garvey with a little black marsh dye type ink or black garvey and white pigmented marsh. There are so many ways to make your color you want with just using Garvey and Marsh and leave out the break fluid and fish oil...unless you want to waste your money and ruin your ink. So, the two factors is Garvey and pigmented Marsh and you will have your dream ink. The hell with the rest...go with the best and use common sense. :king: Edit: In this picture...the mini OTR with the black tape wrapped around the cap next to the small red OTR red ink is white marsh and violet garvey. Once you shake it up real well...it really has a decent "electric" violet color and writes smooth and even drips. I love that mini OTR. Because, it has White Marsh and Violet Garvey mixed just right for a fresh color...trust me on this. http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture049.jpg

All the marsh dye type inks are very good inks even orange. If I can't get garvey...I always go with marsh...that nero is over-rated. I would rather have a pint of black marsh dye type ink than a small over priced nero deinferno black dye tye ink and that goes for OTR hard to buff as well. Marsh is the number two contender for dye type inks and the price is really good and you also get a hell of a deal with their pigment inks as well. So, any color that marsh has is going to be good and better than most inks. Any color you can't get in Garvey i.e. dye type...then get Marsh. You can get a whole quart of marsh for as low as $17 (depending on the color...some colors cost a little more. The ultra violet and violet is the most expensive) not a pint not or a tiny bottle of nero. But, a quart...that is ALOT of ink and you can get quarts of Pigment Marsh too. If you really want a good pigment ink....Get a quart the marsh Violet. Or any Marsh pigment...it will never fade!!!!! You have to go to the source to get good inks that are not over priced. When you get ink off some of these graff sites...they are always over priced...except for some. Art-primo gives a good deal on pints of Garvey. But, you also have to have pigment for outside bombing. When I was doing the insides of the train cars...dye type is all we mostly used. But, pigment was needed for the windows and outside of the trains and outside tags in general. You can't go wrong with Marsh. It is good stuff and it has no gimmick and it is not over priced. Plus, there is no need to mess with it by putting in garbage thinking you will make it better. Unless you have white pigment and violet, blue or red garvey. All you need is common sense and you will have success in your ink and your markers/mops.

They are both hard to buff. But, the violet is a little better...Also, it has that eletric color. Black is black. As far as mixing to make Garvey better...there is no point and it is a waste of time. Just leave it alone. Mixing other stuff in it can mess up the orignal components of the formula. That RAZAR tag I posted above only got darker when they tried to buff it and they used everything they could think of. That stall had tags on it before I bombed it with my Garvey Mop and the only tags that stayed and got darker were mine. The rest were buffed. So, just leave your garvey alone. However, Garvey can fade in the sun like all dye type inks. So, if you want to mix something with Garvey...use white Marsh Pigment (paint ink) and mix it with the Garvey. It has the staining power of Garvey and the Pigment will not vanish in direct sunlight...it will last for years. Other than that...just use the Garvey straight up and use it in a mop so it goes on thick.:) Edit: @technikal You beat me to the punch and posted while I was typing...You said the right things. Just leave it alone and if you want to add something...add white pigment marsh. It is a fresh color and will last. Other than that, putting anything else in will just screw up the orignal formula and waste and ruin your ink. Violet is slightly better in regard to staining...it is the same with other compinies that make purple or violet ink...violet just stains well and the best is Garvey and that is the bottom line!!!! :king:

Click on the names of the two erasers to view them and when you decide on the one you want...copy and paste the name and put it on google and you should be able to get them sent to the UK from some site. SCHOOL MATE Republic Standard 5 Inch Eraser QUARTET Chalkboard Eraser

To be honest Krink sucks (no offense KR). But, it is not all that. If I did not get a good deal on it. I would not have bought it. If you leave it in your marker/mop it starts to dry up and it can ruin a good marker. You have to constantly shake it. But, it is nice ink if you are going to bomb with it right away. I just like having it for the hell of it. Now, in the 80's they used to have silver ink madeby marsh and by flomaster, it came in 4oz containers...it worked just like regular ink, it came in pigment and you could put it in miniwides and it would not dry up on you. If had a better flow than krink...it was very thin...so the drips were crazy. Krink is alot thicker and not as good. But, being they no longer make silver pigment ink anymore...you have to go with the paint type silver or krink. :(

To be honest I got my krink for $5 a bottle down in the lower east side of manhattan at this record store. When I walked in, they could tell I was not a Toy and I know KR from back in the days. So, they gave me flat rate prices...no tax. I have 4 bottles left...I got rid of the rest for more than I paid for it and I have this large 32oz bottle at my mom's house that I paid $20 for. But, if you order on the web ..it is not worth it. The krink mops are whack. You can get the exact same container from the 4oz shoe polish bottles for free (if you rack them) pour out the shoe polish and pour in your krink. You can use that cheap foam rubber nib or use a real mob eraser nib for crazy drips. Those foam rubber nibs fall apart easy and get stuck on things. The eraser nibs go over everything and are fat. :king:

"Real" Chalkboard erasers are very hard to find anywhere. Trust me. You can't find them anywhere. Because, they are so rare. Read what is said on the link below about the erasers...Click on the "Read All Reviews" and find out how hard they are to find how and rare they are. But, for $1.07 an eraser that can make 6 mops...you can't beat it. http://www.misterart.com/store/view/001/gr...Inch-Eraser.htm

I have like 12 pints of garvey. I have 6 in violet 3 in red and 3 in blue. I had cases of it. I got off the Garvey company itself. But, they have a $25 minimum and I don't think they sell pints anymore. I have a business account with them and was getting it by the case load. It was a good investment. Because, I was selling each bottle for an even $20 or 2 for $30 and the young writers in my neighborhood bought it up along with a bunch of miniwides and some other stuff that I had too much of. But, if you are looking for a deal I suggest you go to Art Primo. I am good friends with them ask for Mari (Mary) tell them Dave from New York suggested you buy it there. They have good prices for it. Now if you are looking for some heavy duty Pigment ink from Marsh you can get it by the quart. The have the Violet in Pigment for good prices and you can get the dye type Marsh in a lot of colors by the quart or pint at this site below). I have an account with them too, you can't go wrong with heavy duty pigment ink by Marsh. Not to mention their dye type ink. Mix some Garvey in it and you have the staining power of Garvey and it will not fade in the sun. Even the black Marsh pigment is great...the prices are good too. You can get the Marsh 99 metal valve pen for $9. Other sites sell the same pen for up to $25. It is always better to go to the source. But, Art Primo is your best bet if you want some Garvey. I was the one that turned them on to selling it. I told them there was a huge demand for it. Now they sell it at good prices. @Shogun_Assassin For that aluminum dust...don't bother. It will ruin your nibs and make it so your ink flow sucks. It gets caked up in your ink and messes up everything. It is not worth putting anything you don't need in your ink. Unless you want to learn the hard way. For the real deal Marsh...Click here Edit: As for the flowpen ink, it is what it is. I got a deal on alot of OTR paint markers. They are cool. But, I would not buy their ink to refill them. I would use other ink. "Hard To Buff" is just words they made up to give you the illiusion that it is good stuff, it is OK. But, there is much better out there and it is a rip off to buy those little cans of ink O.T.R sells. As for the Dye type Flowpen ink, like the violet dye flowpen ink. I would pass on it. In fact I emptied it and put in violet garvey instead. You are just better off getting empty "aerosol art" Bombing Markers and putting your own ink in. They are the same as O.T.R's just a different name on them (they are made by the same company), even the nibs are the same.

Links to a few tags http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture018.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture026.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture032.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture031.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture023.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture020.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture022.jpg EDIT: Link about my stuff(scroll till you see my pics) http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/index.php...c=47111&st=2200

LInks to other stuff http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture017.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture035.jpg

You are right...the Arrid ones I have are almost impossible to find. The ones I have, have a ring that holds the ball on and you can pop off the ring and the ball comes out and you can pour out the deodorant, wash it and dry it and then hook it up. I racked like 20 of them that still have deodorant. You can still get them in a few places...I racked mine at Target and a supermarket. I am even using them as deodorant...Lol But, I will save the container. The other containers...even the ban roll ons are one sold piece of plastic with the ball and they suck! I started with Ban roll on and they were glass and had that plastic ring you could pop off. Now, they are one piece of plastic and a ball and when you remove the ball...there is a tiny opening, no good to stuff an eraser in. Just keep a sharp eye out. Here is what you can do...you can make the same type of mop like the arrid with the shoe polish applicator, take that bullshit foam rubber nib off...pour our the shoe polish and clean it and dry it and pour in your ink and take an eraser strip, fold it in two and shove it in. You want to get the round 4oz that has the white chalky shoe polish to use. If you have the wide strip eraser..take a hack saw and cut the opening down a little. Otherwise, the regular size eraser strips will work very well. Here is the shoe polish mop that you can rack anywhere with red garvey...it is drippy and fat...I put black tape around it and it is almost as nice as the arrid. Click on link to see it. http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture035.jpg Edit, These are the type of erasers you need to make mops. The first link shows the 6 strip wide eraser...good for 6 mops...I used this type for the arrid mop and the second pic is for the mop in the above pic, it is the regular strip eraser and it is very good..also good for 6 mops. If you really want good ink. Get the "pigmeant" ink from the marsh company. It comes in alot of colors including violet and it will last forever outdoors, it will never fade. You can get quarts for about 20 bucks (not pints...quarts). They have quarts of the dye type ink as well in blue, green, red, ultraviolet, etc; for about 17 bucks. You have to go heavy if you are serious about bombing. These little pilots are about nothing (they are good if your taking a shit in a public restroom in school or the movies). But, a mop is for serious bombers. You want to use mops that are wide drippy and have pigmeant ink so you can tear shit up. You get a few quarts of marsh pigmeant you will be unstoppable. Just make sure you have some erasers to make real NYC bombing mops. http://www.misterart.com/store/view/001/gr...Inch-Eraser.htm http://www.misterart.com/grouppix/280x210/2000/g2500.jpg

You can get Fiebings on the link below. But, Fiebings is not all that. I am going to be blunt...I have been bombing for 25 years and I know some of you dudes want to mess around with mixing up different ink and other stuff you think will make your ink better...like using "fish oil." You are just wasting your time. All you need is a good mop, miniwide or a flowpen and some good ink and use it "as is." If someone is going to be on a mission to buff your tags...they are going to buff it no matter what you use. Weather they scrub it or simply paint over it. If they want it gone it's gone. However, there a few basic inks and tricks to make your tags last. A good mix is take white marsh paint ink and put half red, blue or violet garvey, it makes a fresh color and it will have the staining power of Garvey and the Marsh Paint ink will make it not fade. I have a tag I did on a street lamp with orange Marsh in 1982 and it looks like I did it only a month ago still to this day...it has been through all types of weather in NYC for 23 years and still standing (the don't make orange marsh anymore or the other 100 colors they used to have during the real graffiti days). So, just use straight Marsh or Garvey or even Pilot ink and bomb. Of course for outside tags, paint type ink is the best and I have alot of success with a mixture of white marsh paint ink and garvey. I would say two thirds white marsh and one third violet garvey and shake and bomb. For drips, make the nib on your mop kind of loose and you will be the drip master. On my red garvey mop...the drips go all the way down to the floor and it looks like blood and it is very hard to buff. So, just stick with the good stuff as I said before...if the chemists at the Garvey company thought they could make their product more permanent they would. Right? Fiebings Leather Dye...Click Here

My mops and some other stuff. The mop pictured below is an Arrid XX deodorant containter with a "wide" chalk board eraser strip (nip) folded in half and stuffed into the container with violet garvey and I have another one made the same with a round show polish container and an eraser strip folded in half with red garvey ink and these mops are wide and drippy as hell and HARD TO BUFF. Then I hae links to few pics of my bombing supplies. I have sold alot of my ink and miniwides and other supplies to some young writers that would get better use from them in my area in Manhattan. But, I kept enough Garvey, Marsh and some Krink to last me for a long while. :king: Links to pics at a better angel http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture047.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture049.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture050.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture048.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture046.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture035.jpg

I put these tags up with my Garvey Mop well over a year ago and they can't buff them. The only thing they buffed were some of the drips. They can't paint over it. Otherwise, it would show through and then they would have to repaint it all the time when other writers use just regular ink. So all you need is Garvey and a good Mop. Links to other photos. http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture026.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture032.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture031.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture023.jpg http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/picture020.jpg Maybe I will post my mop and other stuff I use to bomb with. I am not an artist and I never was...I just like to bomb shit with markers. I used to love doing the insides. You can bomb the whole line of cars, not get busted or freeze and people had no choice but to look at your tags while riding the train the whole time they were on it. Peace out! :innocent: Edit: The "RZ" tags were done with an OTR Flow Pen (really an empty "arerosol art" Bombing Marker filled with Garvey & I used a Miniwide as well...with Garvey)

By the way...I guess me and RH were thinking the same thing. Because, out of the blue I clicked onto this site after about a year of not posting and I had this site bookmarked to this thread. Because, this is the only thread I liked to post on. I am an ex graff writer aka bomber. I never spent lots of time with one train car when I could get up more by hitting the insides of every car in the layup or the yard. So, if KEL was doing a burner I would bomb the insides and by the time he finished his fresh burner. I had 100's of fresh drippy tags all over the insides car to car. That is why I preferred ink to piecing. Although I have done plenty of throw ups. I got more of a thrill using a fat drippy mop. That's just me. PS, I have tons of ink, KRINK, MARSH, GARVEY and I have so many miniwides with the old school nibs. I went to the local graff store that used to sell every graff tool in the book. Now, it is just a regular stationary store. However, I saw a few miniwides in a corner of his glass display case and I asked him how many he had left and he said about 25. I told him I would give him $50 for the rest of his miniwides that he had in a box in the back and he went for it. It turned out that he only had 22 minis. But, he had a handful of extra old school nibs. So, I made a killing. He said nobody was buying them so he just had one or two in his counter display case up in the corner where you had to look to find them. So, I am going to keep these babies on ice and in a few years I will sell them on ebay starting at $25 a marker with the old school nib. Because, by then, miniwides will be extinct. I already had 8 I got from another place for my own personal use. But, 2 only have ink in them. So, I have a total of 28 miniwides and a shit load of extra nibs. ROC ON!

I can't believe you dudes are still talking about making ink, about a year ago I told mostly everyone that did not know anything about garvey how good it is and you could only get it from the garvey company. But, the graff sites that sell ink and stuff realized everyone was dying for garvey and now you can get it with little problems. Lets face it, there is nothing better than garvey. It was made to be the most perament ink around. It is industrial made not to come off. If the people at the lab thought they could made an ink more powerful than the product they already have on the market, they would have made changes in the ingredients. But, it is perfect...of course it can be buffed in some surfaces. All ink can be buffed one way or another. But, garvey takes the prize. The only problem with garvey is it will fade in direct sunlight...depending on what you write on. So, I have come up with the perfect mix. You get white marsh paint ink and you add two-thirds white and one-third garvey and you have the most powerful ink in the book. The color is fresh, it won't fade and the dye in the garvey stains like a bitch. I put up a tag with a white marsh-violet garvey combo and it is on a street lame in direct sunlight on 96th and Broadway and it has been there for a year already and it is not going anywhere. Plus, it looks like it is a brand new tag after a year of bad weather, snow and hot sun. So, stop wasting time trying to enhance ink that is already perfected (I know it is fun to mess around with ink and stuff, but, there is not much you can do to make an ink better than it already is when you have garvey and marsh) Now, it is time to take all this time you guys are spending and GET UP. All you need is a pint of Garvey and a pint of White Marsh, a good flow pen or a real mop with an eraser strip as the nib and go out and destroy shit. I have said it before, when I started bombing in the 70's. We just took either flomaster, marsh or garvey. Put it in a mop or a miniwide and bombed the hell out of everything in our path. If people are on a die hard mission to buff your shit...it is going to get buffed regardless of what you use. Even if it means them sandblasting or using tons of paint to cover up your tags. So, if you have good ink and a good bombing marker or mop. Then that is all you need. Peace! I just finished taking a bunch of pics of my destruction on a throw away camera and I am going to take it to rite aid to get it developed...after I get the CD-rom of my photos, I will upload them on my PC and I will post some fresh fat drippy tags I did with my mop. I felt like I was 20 years younger when I was bombing, I even hit up Min 1 for ole' times sake, When and if he sees it, he is going to bug out to see that I'm still bombing once in awhile. I bombed a few major cross streets in Manhattan, Boardway and 96th, 116th east to west and 125th east to west. So, you can't miss them if you are up in Harlem. :king:

Where is your email address?

Well, the site below (Liquid Crack) uses pal pal...So, it will convert UK money to American prices. The messed up thing is OTR is a European Company. But, I only know of American companies that supply OTR's. Liquid Crack has the best prices and they are easy to deal with. I have the owners direct phone number. I have done ALOT of business with him. So, I get pretty good deals. When you spend money with just about any graff distro. company they always give you deals. But, even if you are paying their regular prices they are still a good deal. For example Urban Designz charges $5.95 for an OTR mini. Liquid Crack only charges $350. for an OTR mini and they have every single color paint and ink. Unlike Urban Designz. Their selection is weak. http://www.liquidcrack.net/on_the_run_marker.htm Below is another OTR company that is based in Germany (where OTR is made). But, Liquid Crack seems to have a better selection. Plus, I don't see the prices on the below site or how to buy them. http://www.mzee.com/ontherun/products/markers/outdoor/

I talked to my man Kyle from liquid crack about working something out. So, if you would like to talk to them. Write Kyle at belton@liquidcrack.net And talk to him and tell him what you want. You would have to work out the prices, American vs UK. I am sure you could get the OTR line of markers in Europe. But, see what he has to say. They use pay pal. So...it should be easy. Even if you have no credit card. http://www.liquidcrack.net/new_page_1.htm

Hmmmmm. I have to give it some thought. I have sold several bottles of Garvey to the young writers in my hood. But, shipping it is where it gets a little complicated. I have to find out how much it cost to ship. I have to see if it is truly worth my while. Because, I make a lot of money as a consultant on my day job. Graff has become a little hobby for me again. I got back into it when my wife got me an ultrawide, some marsh and a few OTR's, for Christmas. Then, I went crazy and spend several hundred dollars on ink and every OTR marker mini and regular...over a dozen miniwides, a whole bunch of miniwide nibs (the real ones). I have alot of Arrid XX roll on containers and plenty of other type of mop containers and a shit load of erasers to make nibs Then, I came across the garvey site and bought ALOT of garvey in different colors. Not all at once, I have an account with garvey so they think they are shipping it to a store...Lol I went downtown and worked out a few deals for 32oz containers of Krink. Being it did not have to be shipped and it was coming from KR's people. They have been giving me good deals. Because, they know it is not even worth 6 bucks for 8oz. But, there is a market for it so they charge what they want to people who really want it. But, face to face, they can see I'm not a sucker so I get special deals if I spend real money with them. I was thinking of putting my shit on ebay. But, on the other hand. I want to make it worth my while. It takes time to do this and I make too much money as it is. I know that it sucks not being able to get what you want because you are low on bread or you don't have credit cards. I told my wife that people outside of NY want ink and stuff and she is going to figure out what can be done outside the city so everyone wins. If you lived in my area you could come to my house. But, I won't lie. When I sell a pint of hard to get Garvey. I don't sell it cheap...I charge more than Garvey does for a pint. So, with shipping we are talking about a little piece of change. But, you have to look at it this way...nothing is better than garvey and it is almost impossible to get without credit cards. I will keep you posted though. I am not trying to extort anyone...I have to do what makes sense. I'm sure you can understand that. But, we will see what happens.......If I sell by postage, I will try to be as fair as possible.