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Pearl Harbor NOT Started With Planes

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by Pistol, Aug 30, 2002.

  1. Pistol

    Pistol Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jul 12, 2001 Messages: 19,363 Likes Received: 299
    Aug 29, 5:38 AM ET
    By JAYMES SONG, Associated Press Writer

    HONOLULU (AP) - Nearly 61 years after the attack on Pearl Harbor, researchers say they have found evidence that the U.S. military fired the first shot against Japan with the discovery of a sunken Japanese submarine.

    http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020829/capt.1030604348.pearl_harbor_submarine_hihad204.jpg'>
    AP Photo

    Slideshow: Japanese Sub Found at Pearl Harbor




    The 78-foot sub was found Wednesday by two research craft on routine training dives about three miles from Pearl Harbor, in an area described as a "military junkyard" about 1,200 feet below the surface.

    "To actually come across it was a sobering moment, realizing that was the shot that started the Pacific war," said Terry Kerby, chief pilot of the Pisces IV deep-diving submersible.

    Although the surprise Japanese aerial attack is most widely associated with Pearl Harbor, the U.S. military has long asserted that an underwater skirmish occurred first.

    The military says it inflicted the first casualties when the USS Ward sank the approaching Japanese sub at 6:45 a.m. on Dec. 7, 1941, about an hour before the aerial attack.

    Historians have had no proof of the sinking until Wednesday's discovery, researchers said.

    Although it has been known the submarine was somewhere outside the harbor, previous expeditions — including a November 2000 National Geographic ( news - web sites) expedition headed by the team that found the wreckage of the Titanic — failed to locate it.

    "The thing is quite difficult to find because of all the massive amounts of junk out in the area, and we were simply fortunate because we've run our test and training dives through here and know where a lot of the junk is," said John Wiltshire, associate director of the Hawaii Undersea Research Laboratory, which found the sub.

    "Local boys make good sometimes," he said.

    Underwater video of the sub shows the hull rusted and slightly leaning to its port side with the periscope up. Two Japanese crewmen are believed still inside.

    The sub led four other Japanese midget submarines to Pearl Harbor before the Sunday morning attack by Japanese planes that lasted two hours and left 21 U.S. ships heavily damaged, 323 aircraft damaged or destroyed, 2,390 people dead and 1,178 wounded.

    Wiltshire said the crew is certain that the sub was sunk by the Ward because of a bullet hole in the conning tower and because it still has both torpedoes. Three of the subs have been previously accounted for. One is still missing, but it had fired both its weapons.

    Until the submarine was found, historian Daniel Martinez said, eyewitness accounts were unconfirmed. Martinez, a historian for the USS Arizona Memorial, has interviewed the crew who fired the first shot, and a pilot who saw the submarine sink.

    "What they saw and what they felt was their recollection, now the proof has been found," he said.

    Immediately following the sinking of the midget sub, the USS Ward sent the message: "We have attacked, fired upon and dropped depth charges operating in defensive sea area."

    But the military base and ships were not immediately placed on alert, which would have prepared the United States for the ensuing attacks.

    "They notified the Navy headquarters (in Washington) and they needed confirmation before they would act," Martinez said. "Remember, there was nothing to tell them that it was a Japanese submarine. It could've been anybody and it could've been friendly."

    Yoshiaki Yoshimi, a historian at Tokyo's Chuo University, said the finding was not likely to change historians' interpretation of the Pearl Harbor attacks. It was already well known that Japan had sent subs to scout the harbor before the attack.

    "The finding is an important piece of historical evidence because it backs up Japan's attempt to conduct a surprise attack," he said.
     
  2. KillahPriest

    KillahPriest Guest

    chinks have funny eyes.
     
  3. Grandola

    Grandola Senior Member

    Joined: Jul 16, 2002 Messages: 1,773 Likes Received: 0
    untill this post i thought that the japanese were the ones who struck first, thank-you high school.
     
  4. Pistol

    Pistol Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jul 12, 2001 Messages: 19,363 Likes Received: 299
    The US stood by this account but until now when the sub was discovered there was no proof. And as with science you need proof.
     
  5. Ceso One SAF

    Ceso One SAF Member

    Joined: Mar 29, 2002 Messages: 362 Likes Received: 0
    them researchers can suck my dick if we attacked first we would have been prepared for a retaliation or maybe we just let them destroy a jillion people, ships, and planes to make it look like they attacked first......yeah right
     
  6. ctrl+alt+del

    ctrl+alt+del Guest

    theres PROOF that Roosevelt knew there was to be an attack on Pearl harbor long before it happened.
     
  7. Brownbread?

    Brownbread? Junior Member

    Joined: Mar 18, 2002 Messages: 191 Likes Received: 0
    Immediately following the sinking of the midget sub, the USS Ward sent the message: "We have attacked, fired upon and dropped depth charges operating in defensive sea area."

    "The military says it inflicted the first casualties when the USS Ward sank the approaching Japanese sub at 6:45 a.m. on Dec. 7, 1941, about an hour before the aerial attack"

    "But the military base and ships were not immediately placed on alert, which would have prepared the United States for the ensuing attacks.

    "They notified the Navy headquarters (in Washington) and they needed confirmation before they would act," Martinez said. "Remember, there was nothing to tell them that it was a Japanese submarine. It could've been anybody and it could've been friendly."
     
  8. Intangible

    Intangible 12oz Legend

    Joined: Jul 9, 2001 Messages: 17,479 Likes Received: 6
    Wow I always like reading about this stuff....
     
  9. se_FOUR

    se_FOUR Senior Member

    Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Messages: 1,796 Likes Received: 1
    This doesn`t surprise me really..
     
  10. Pistol

    Pistol Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jul 12, 2001 Messages: 19,363 Likes Received: 299
    yeah an hour not including the time it took to get from Hawaii to DC.
     
  11. willy.wonka

    willy.wonka Guest

    yeah i seen that on the news..kinda interesting.
    i wish they would show the beach on the news..
     
  12. sneak

    sneak Guest

    once again hollywood fucks us over...
     
  13. jah

    jah Elite Member

    Joined: Dec 30, 2001 Messages: 2,705 Likes Received: 2
    heard about this on the news. fucked up....
     
  14. Kr430n5_666

    Kr430n5_666 Banned

    Joined: Oct 6, 2004 Messages: 19,229 Likes Received: 30
  15. A Fire Inside

    A Fire Inside Senior Member

    Joined: Sep 5, 2001 Messages: 1,836 Likes Received: 0
    Very interesting I say...
     
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