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dumbass question about palestine vs. israel

Discussion in 'News' started by patrickjilbert, Dec 1, 2001.

  1. patrickjilbert

    patrickjilbert Member

    Joined: Sep 7, 2001 Messages: 563 Likes Received: 0
    i'm not too knowledgable about the topic, but i'm hoping to learn a bit from some replies...

    so the jews got israel from palestine after ww2 so they could have their own place, right? it seems to me like the palestinitials have a right to fight people off who took their country. the halocaust wasn't their fault so why did they get land taken away? and why does the US support israel and waste their/our time?


    some of the questions i asked are probably reallt stupid, but a lot of you seem to know a lot about topics such as this.
     
  2. dukeofyork

    dukeofyork Guest

    both sides (israelis and palestinians) believe they have rights to the area.
    neither side will admit being wrong.
    the fighting will continue....
     
  3. T.T Boy

    T.T Boy Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 18, 2001 Messages: 21,803 Likes Received: 41
    1. not all of the land was given to isralies, alot was bought for expensive pices from the palestinians, traditionally nomadic people the palestinians didnt see the entire value of the land. and sold it. now with the isralies owning most of it, they want it back.

    2. they will not share as both religions have religious monuments on either side, they will refuse to share. and fight till the kill eachother, one with stick and stones, and one with military aid and back up. i have my voews on this so i wont get into them, as they are strong.
     
  4. Pistol

    Pistol Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jul 12, 2001 Messages: 19,363 Likes Received: 299
    True TT. Both in the Jewish and Muslim faiths a majority of their holiest sites are at the same spots. It's messed up that the two sides can't get along and work things out. Palestianian gunmen keep uloading on innocents people at malls. And the Israeli army has to keep shooting them and or going back into Palestian territory, thus further enraging Palestinians. People in Israel complain that Yasser Arafat is not doing enough to keep peace in the area and put a clamp down on those extremist such as Hamas or Hezbollah. Israel offered Palestine a deal last year giving them some land back. But Palestine refused because some land they wanted was not included in the deal. Israel has now offered to start serious negotiations again but only after one week of peace. Even the US this week is visiting to help try to broker a peace agreement and get the talks initiated. But while they were there a Palestian gunmen opened up on innocent civilians and another human bomb exploded on a bus. It seems to me that if these Palestinian Martyr's are so into getting their land back why would you be disturbing the peace process and targeting innocent civilians.
    Although I understand Palestinians want some land back they can't keep causing this violence. If they just chilled for a while the talks might be more positive. I mean I'm a Chicano living in LA and the US stole this land from us. You don't see me and my friends throwing rocks at the cops and exploding next to innocent civilians.
     
  5. Smart

    Smart Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Apr 14, 2000 Messages: 17,017 Likes Received: 175
    Israel the state was actually formed shortly after WWI but I forget the details, basically there was no one there until the 50s and then part of the Israelies argument was 'well you've had 30 years to contest this but you never did?'... and they also kinda stomped ass in the 7day war so both sides feel some historical justification in the matter... I don't pick sides...
     
  6. Palaistinians lived in that land,
    anyone with common sense of geography and population can understand that there is no area in the globe, exept the north pole or somedesert, isnt 'home' to some people.
    I'm no expert but i think that Jews lived there aswell, so in a way they have the right to claim the land.
    They mostly do it based on history (religious) concidering the land birthright of somekind.
    As far as buying the land, thats crap to me, who sells a land?
    I mean if some politicians do it it doesnt change the way that people who lived there concider the land.Can i say indians?
    Palaistinians dont have to pay the brutality of Germans.
    And Jews suffer from the syndrome where you act like the one who tortured you.
    Personnaly i think that the holocauste is one of the most terrible things that ever happened.
    But my stomach turns whenever i see a movie about it, full of sensitivity towards human life and rights, made by people who think that a rock equals a misile.
     
  7. aztek4two1

    aztek4two1 Member

    Joined: Nov 30, 2000 Messages: 770 Likes Received: 0
    palestine was controlled by great britain. the un was formed after ww2.. israel was formed in 1948

    britain gave it up with no consideration of the palestinians that were living there, primarily because they were a somewhate nomadic people.

    its very similar to the way the native americans lived off many areas of america but didn't have "control" of the land according to european standards.

    its not a good thing, but its done with, and now it needs to be dealt with.

    the world isn't perfect, it never will be.

    -booya
     
  8. Step8

    Step8 Senior Member

    Joined: Nov 25, 2000 Messages: 1,366 Likes Received: 8
    both sides want all or nothing. the Jewish state is a religious state, religon and politics are twisted together on both sides
    As states before the jews were just given Palistine. They had been lobbying for it long before the holocaust. And immediatly leading up to the country of Isreal being recognized by the UN the Jew's were the terrorists, blowing up stuff, and generally pissing the british off
     
  9. T.T Boy

    T.T Boy Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 18, 2001 Messages: 21,803 Likes Received: 41
    well taking it back a few hundered years, the land was actually shared by the two people, but the palestinians did actually have more, but it was the romans who chased out the jews and forced them into euroupe and other parts of the world. but still the land was mixed between the two and there were no problems then. fast forward a few hundered years, and well teh palestinians still had the land but didnt really use it that well, being nomadic and such, they caused no threat to the british controlling the land, and with no where to put boatloads of jews they stuck them there only to cause problems. damn im not making much sense, ill edit this tomorrow morning.

    anyways, i know alot of the u.s is stolen land, but in all actuality all of the us and canada is stolen land if traced back accordingly. it was the english and fench who traded "goods" to the indians for land, and also used force to steal it from them. it really is their land, and its stolen, but it was "paid" for with alcohol and mirriors and knives. things the natives didnt even really need. but knowing the greed they took the land anyways. fuck im rambling.
     
  10. I Luv Roo

    I Luv Roo Member

    Joined: Aug 20, 2001 Messages: 733 Likes Received: 0
    I guess we can thank Great Britain in all their imperialist might. Heck, they could have given the Haulocaust survivors any land they controlled, which was like half the freakin world - but since Palestine is also Jerusalem, well, they naively gave away land that really didn't belong to them - and the world didn't think a damn thing of it because they all just were so apalled at what went on in Germany, and the Jews had always wanted a country of their own - a "Jewish Nation". The Jews were underdogs for a long time after Isreal was formed, contantly under attack by Arab/Muslim nations - and finally they buffed up their army. Then when Egypt started a war with Isreal, Isreal won big time and gained the upper hand.

    It doesn't help the situation that the US (private banks and gov.) provides alot of support and arms to the Isreali Army, which they use to push Palesineans further and further into confines. The US might be saying they want peace, but they clearly support one side over another monetarily.

    It's too long and complex - and honestly, that's the way I think people in power would like it to remain, so that us undividuals, especially if we were too young to remember the 70's and 80's - won't know the entire story and we won't question what goes on. It's just so people think that these people over there are crazy and fighting for no cause, which has some truth because right now, it appears to just be retaliation against each other for isolated incidents - like gang fights. After a while, you don't even know what you're really fighting about, you just know you're mad as hell and someone's gonna pay.
     
  11. Smart

    Smart Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Apr 14, 2000 Messages: 17,017 Likes Received: 175
    why all the suicide bombers? it seems the goal might be to actually go to war with Israel?
     
  12. Crooks

    Crooks New Jack

    Joined: Aug 25, 2001 Messages: 11 Likes Received: 0
    in 1948 isreal did indeed do to war with all the arab nations it was a brutal war but isreal won..the funny thing bout this is that the ussr supported isreal at the time because it was assumed that isreal was going to be communist..us actually had little do with isreal in the begining...

    since 1948 through the 1960's isreal was at war with all of its nieghbors at one time or another in 1968 there was a cease fire during the yom kipper holidays(a serious jewish holiday) all the arab countries atacked isreal at one time in an effort to destroy isreal...this was called the 6 day war..isreal was caught of guard but in the end won and actually took more land from egypt, lebanon and other bordering countries..the land won was called the occupied teritories..isreal held this land until the early 90's when with the us brokered a deal with arafat and created the state of palestine the only thing not cementing the new country was the fact that arafat wanted all of jerusalum

    now jerusalum is isreals capital...sharon(the prime minister of isreal) was like we can give u sections but not all of it which was a big deal if u understand the ramifications....anyways arafat was not having it he wanted all or nothing so now he has nothing..and now hes trying to salvage the fact that he fukked up with a call to all the people of palestine to rise up...and that is where we at now(i kinda summed it up real quick)

    a little known fact in 1982 isreal attacked an destroyed iraqs nuclear program...the whole world condemned isreal then...now how u think things woulda turned out now if iraq an them terrorist nations would be if they had nuclear technology at there finger tips?
     
  13. T.T Boy

    T.T Boy Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 18, 2001 Messages: 21,803 Likes Received: 41
    well this may be a bit off topic but, a close friend of my family grew up there and told me stories about what happened, this is an unbiased source too, as his family is orthodox catholic, a whole other religion in itself, and when he was a child he grew up with bombs going off 50 feet from his house all day and all night. and he watched the palestinians fight the isralies all through his teenage years, and when 15 innocent women and children were catured by isralie soldiers for no reason and held ransom, and the only way they could be saved was for the palestinians to capture 3 armed guards and hope for a trade, but when 3 armed guars went missing, there came the bombings and shooting on behalf of the isralies. and yes they got teh guards back and eventually the palestinians got the people back, but after all of that. and why were the people captured anyways? no reason. the palestinians are fighting a giant armed to the teeth with sticks and stones, they use carbombings and such only as a means of nothing better to do, whos supporting them? no one, if they had theusa backing them it would be a whole newstory. the us needs to either fuck off or try and negoriate things, which would efinatley be the better of the options. this war needs to stop.
     
  14. Smart

    Smart Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Apr 14, 2000 Messages: 17,017 Likes Received: 175
    word Crooks, but I mean right now, during the negotiations... everytime the 'peace process' gets started...
     
  15. T.T Boy

    T.T Boy Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 18, 2001 Messages: 21,803 Likes Received: 41
    i doubt there ever ill be peace i doubt yassar arafat even has control anymore. those people seem to thrive on holy wars.
     
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