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misteraven

Weigh In: Has political correctness amplified teenage violence?

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Going to try and start a new series of posts and see how it goes. I'm going to try and pick timely topics and hot button subjects and pose a question so you guys can weigh in and throw in your opinions. Obviously we won't all agree and likely, there's no easy solution. The goal is to apply logic, reasoning and if possible, objective evidence and study so we can discuss and debate in our small corner of the interwebz and see if we might be able to solve the worlds problems.

 

First topic to weigh in on...

 

Has political correctness versus teenage / young adult violence?

 

Now for specifics... Mass shootings, especially in regards to kids going in and going on school rampages, is a fairly recent phenomena, that has mostly affected the USA. According to a recent report on "Active Shooter" incidents in the United States for 2016 - 2017 researched and released by the FBI, they stated that in those two years there were a total of 50 mass shootings (link: https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-us-2016-2017.pdf/view). Note that mass shootings are identified as an incident where 4 or more people other than the shooter are killed with a firearm. The mass shootings in this report aren't filtered exclusively to school shootings, nor does it encompass attempts or incidents where less than 4 people (other than the shooter) were killed.

 

Now, I have my own opinions on the subject and will share them to start the dialogue. Again, I encourage everyone to chime in, but lets not get all emotional and start disrespecting. The intent is to have an intelligent debate, throw out credible (arguably credible) theories, facts (backed up by links from non-biased sources) and simply share your thoughts in a respectful manner.

 

So this said, I'm wondering if the way we're treating our kids and the fairly recent move towards an increasingly political correct expectation is leading to pent up anger that sometimes manifests as extreme violence is certain situations. A sort of critical mass, if you will?

 

I recall as a kid, when you got shoved around, throwing blows in the field across the street after school was a common occurrence. Not that anyone especially loved to fight, but when tempers flared, it was a pretty normal thing to go to blows. Most often, these were pretty fair fights and rarely resulted in much more than a bloody nose or lip. It also wasn't unusual for the circle of spectators to force the brawlers to shake on it or it would end up being a rematch the next day or later in the week. Not sure I can recall any incident of a kid getting ganged up on in hundreds of fights I probably watched from elementary throughout to high school and it also wasn't unusual for the two kids that fought to end up being friends not too long after. Point being that hostility built up until it blew and then got released.

 

Now, I'm not going to debate the ethics of going to blows, but I will say that I've noticed when walking or driving by school yards of extremely young kids (kindergarten age) that its fairly obvious that boys like to rough house and likewise, its often obvious how nicely / cooperatively the little girls of that age play. I do believe that it's simply a natural biological fact that most males have a tendency towards aggression and that traits like nurturing are often inherent in females. This is 100% true of all, but I think most would agree its true in general.

 

So what happens when you suppress that instinct? What happens when a kid is already in a more stressful dynamic with more demands and expectations as found in our modern society, while also being restrained from what might otherwise be a natural tendency? These days kids are taught that if they're bullied, that its wrong to fight back. That we need to express ourselves and everything can be talked out and solved. That if talking doesn't help, that there is always an authority available to help mediate things.

 

Could it be possible that young kids simply struggle to cope with their emotions and maybe have an even tougher time when those emotions build and then a trigger occurs (no pun intended) that causes it all to erupt?

 

Now I'm not in any way justifying mass shootings. Its a horrendous act and has a profound affect on individuals and communities, as well as the nation and world as a whole. But could it be possible that living in age where the definition of "social interaction" and "engagement" has devolved to staring at an iphone screen and double tapping an image or 240 character blurb is taking its toll? Coupled with a break down in the nuclear family unit, higher expectations about everything from what to wear, to what to drive to where to live to even what the fuck you should be eating... Declining levels of physical activity (riding bikes, climbing trees, etc), increasingly great levels of stimuli (Video games, streaming content, social feeds, etc)... All while suppressing otherwise natural tendencies as boys grow up and discover who they are and naturally learn their place in a society, first by duking it out and later in more reasoned and skilled ways)... Could all of this be actually whats causing the mass violence we see?

 

Sorry to run long, but sort of thinking out loud and wanted to set the stage.

 

Think about it and drop a comment below.

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Somewhere between not giving a fuck in adolescence and giving a fuck as an adult comes growth.

 

Growth has been stifled.

 

I feel my whole generation is responsible for these fucked up kids, unable to see growth in their family (financially/spiritually/whatever), and having no reasonable expectation of security in their lives. We were never given it, but yet we fucked each other and some kids came out... we sent them to school. Not a hard thing to imagine.

 

Now, they have the internet (shout out to DAO right here), and they get inundated with shit all day. So much that they discredit the good information in lieu of the bad. They're goals are fucked up, trying to eat tide pods for fame. Meanwhile, they play video games with me and I kick their monkey asses up and down PUBG because they suck and they should know it. Maybe I'm responsible? I digress.

 

If kids had an opportunity to fulfill their childhood dreams, like we all thought we would, and lived in the fantasy our parents created for us while feeding us Easy Mac and Hamburger Helper, rather than being in a shittier place than that... if society would give a fuck about one another... maybe then kids would feel a sense of society.

 

Or maybe the next time you see a kid fucking up at the grocery store, take it upon yourself to spank his ass, grab his ear, and take him to his mother.

 

And if that bitch don't play her role, you smack shit out of her. Have your boy film it. Instant viral.

 

 

Look, philosophy is dead. When people started thinking they could catalog information on computers with easy access, they stopped questioning things. They suddenly "knew".

 

Nobody fucking knows. Just be nice and raise your kids to do the same. Stop being cunts.

 

Love you, I'm drunk.

 

-nsmb

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@nsmbfan

 

You touch on some interesting points...

 

Somewhere between not giving a fuck in adolescence and giving a fuck as an adult comes growth.

 

Kids these days aren't allowed to make mistakes and mistakes are an important part of the growth process. Ironically, besides not being allowed to make mistakes, the consequences for mistakes are selective. Seems the higher up the social hierarchy, the more exemptions exist.

 

If kids had an opportunity to fulfill their childhood dreams, like we all thought we would, and lived in the fantasy our parents created for us while feeding us Easy Mac and Hamburger Helper, rather than being in a shittier place than that... if society would give a fuck about one another... maybe then kids would feel a sense of society.

 

This is also an significant point IMO, especially your last sentence, "'if society would give a fuck about one another... maybe then kids would feel a sense of society." We've been conditioned to pick a side and consider the other team as the enemy. There's a really great podcast I posted a few times that goes into this topic very well in my opinion. Suggest anyone interested to listen to it. Link: http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/the-great-lie-of-dichotomy

 

This is most pronounced in politics, where one is expected to pick left or right and vehemently defend their team while unconditionally vilifying the other team. Opting out almost causes a greater backlash then being on the opposing team with all kinds of reprimands about contributing to the great evil by not opposing it, doing your "civic duty" etc. Even picking a third choice is looked down upon as "throwing away your vote".

 

But yes, there is a lack of community. Little empathy (unless it falls under the mainstream narrative and political correctness) and certainly no understanding unless you're on the same team and toe the line. This recent episode with Kanye has been pretty fascinating in this regard. I actually took the time to watch the entire TMZ interview and am blown away by how its been framed up by the vast majority of mainstream media and social. Likewise the "animals" comment from Trump which is very easy to review and understand was wielded by his opponents (including most of the MSM) as more evidence to vilify him. I'm not a fan of any politician and see Trump as most the opposite side of the same shitty coin as Obama, but I think what's happening in regards to the highly orchestrated opposition to him is extremely dangerous. The methods being implemented are freakin scary and I believe no good will come from this. I do believe that most Americans want the same general thing out of life (to be stable if not prosperous, love of family and general contentment), but no doubt disagree on the path to getting there. Whether Trump or Obama, I think most people elected these guys to office because they felt their respective candidate had a better chance at getting them to that goal. But instead we're expected to contribute to the mob mentality that all Trump supporters are racist, sexist, xenophobic white people. Those that don't voice that opinion are immediately accused of being racist themselves, regardless of no prior evidence of it until he decided to run (and become) president. Again, I'm not a fan or supporter of him or any other politician. Rather I judge each position and action on its own merits, regardless of party support.

 

But yeah, lack of community and respecting each other as human beings likely has a big role in this as well.

 

When people started thinking they could catalog information on computers with easy access, they stopped questioning things. They suddenly "knew".

 

This is a pretty profound statement and I agree completely. Everyone seems to be expert now and so very few paid any type of dues to gain whatever knowledge they claim to be expert at. Certainly less even have any hands on, real world experience. Likewise, engagement has been dumbed down to double tapping a photo or blurb on social media or how long you spend staring at something. Content is also dumbed down into increasingly consumable pieces, with little distinction, if any, drawn between editorial opinion and actual unbiased reporting. Its also laughable how clearly partisan and agenda driven news has become.

 

-------

 

Anyhow, great first response and definitely a lot of food for thought that I think likely contributes to the mess.

 

look forward to hearing from more of you.

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Short on time but no, don't think it's political correctness. I do think we've made kids softer in a few ways. There are larger forces that do pull on things though, societal crap, but that's not it in total either. Really do have to emphasize mental health care and even more simply recognition of mental health, really in the shitter. Left unsupervised and untreated, you get a lot of what we see, eventually.

 

Political correctness is a funny term in many ways if you think about it. Usually might mean how a politician words his bullshit nicely so as to be accepted by as many as possible. Now used more broadly to mean anything that might offend anyone. Sometimes you have to offend and sometimes you have to take offense. Not everything is fair and equal.

 

Related side note, I rewatched Inglorious Bastards a few weeks ago and found it interesting that the end scene is a massacre in a movie theater. Think that movie predates Aurora, CO, wonder if that gave him or other mass casualty attackers ideas.

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Posted (edited)
Short on time but no, don't think it's political correctness. I do think we've made kids softer in a few ways. There are larger forces that do pull on things though, societal crap, but that's not it in total either. Really do have to emphasize mental health care and even more simply recognition of mental health, really in the shitter. Left unsupervised and untreated, you get a lot of what we see, eventually.

 

Political correctness is a funny term in many ways if you think about it. Usually might mean how a politician words his bullshit nicely so as to be accepted by as many as possible. Now used more broadly to mean anything that might offend anyone. Sometimes you have to offend and sometimes you have to take offense. Not everything is fair and equal.

 

Related side note, I rewatched Inglorious Bastards a few weeks ago and found it interesting that the end scene is a massacre in a movie theater. Think that movie predates Aurora, CO, wonder if that gave him or other mass casualty attackers ideas.

 

I think mental health plays into it in some ways but do not believe it ties into the root of the issue. Health care sucks, but its no worse than it was decades ago. In fact, its likely better as medical science has improved. I do think that some of the drugs being prescribed can play into this though.

 

There was a time, in America at least, that it was normal for kids to bring guns to school. It was a regular thing as many kids would go hunting together on the way home. In fact, it wasn't too long ago that kids would shoot rifles in high school as part of physical education. Likewise, ROTC students actually had real rifles assigned. Attaching a few images I pulled to show my point where elementary age kids are being taught gun safety. These aren't extreme isolated incidents as I've talked to enough old timers and have read enough about it that I don't question how this was indeed a part of American culture and history. Yet there is not a single incident of a school mass shooting during that era. Closest you come to it are some mass shootings on college campuses that occurred decades later and during an era when gun controls were already being put into place. Now I'm not suggesting the gun controls perpetuated it, only stating that when there was a complete lack of it, it wasn't the wild west with shootings happening at all, let alone several times a year. This leaves me to believe there has to be a deeper catalyst we should be looking for.

 

Touched on previously is the issue of community, which also plays into the collapse of the nuclear family. I do believe this can help explain it. Nobody is going to care about something as much as the person that actually owns it. Nobody is going to care about a kid as much as a parent. In the era being discussed, you most often had two parent and one of the stayed home. You generally ate smaller portions of less processed foods and had a parent supervising your every move because that was their role / job. Now we eat far larger portions of heavily processed foods and essentially allow the public school system to take over a lot of the parenting despite the fact that they've mostly already failed our kids at actual schooling. Both parents are working and if they're even home by the time a kid returns from school, they're generally too stressed and too physically / mentally exhausted to properly parent. So you have kids growing up and being taught by educators that we mostly recognize as being underpaid (separate issue for another time), that may or may not even be aligned ideologically or politically since school / campus life is far from representative of most real life jobs or corporate / professional environments and expect them to be schooling and instilling values, teaching life lessons and serving as role models that was previously the responsibility of the parent(s). Then you have a bunch of time after school, weekends and summer vacations where parents are also checked out or missing altogether where a kid is left to largely figure out his own way by seeing / learning / doing with someone else that fills the role a parent once largely filled.

 

So from an ethical / ideological stand point, there's no doubt the bar has been lowered with each subsequent generation as the parent becomes increasingly consumed in just holding shit together, working full time. Coupled with increasingly amounts of stimuli and ever increasing and extreme positions on everything from media to entertainment and politics... And on top of it, quick fix remedies like prescribing different drugs for every possible symptom from leaky bowels to hyperactivity... Etc.

 

Anyhow, this is my position on the subject.

 

I saw an interesting stat recently regarding gun violence. It said that if you remove Baltimore, Chicago and New Orleans from the stats, that the United States is in the top 3 safest countries in the Western Hemisphere in regards to gun violence. Chicago is the heavy hitter in regards to gun violence, but again looking at evidence through statistics, the worst violence occurs in cities / states with the heaviest gun control regulations. Slightly off topic, but I thought it was interesting. I do not believe as far as this specific topic goes that gun control and regulations, or the lack thereof, actually plays into this in any meaningful way. I do believe its a cultural issue along the lines of the argument I've laid out above. People don't slaughter each other simply because the tool available to do so happens to be accessible or at hand. Obviously there's a much deeper issue at play that could compel a person to commit something so horrible. But the fact that this is something that has really only existed in the last few decades begs the question of what's changed? There's exponentially more guns in America, some estimates placing that number at anywhere from 1 - 3 per person meaning somewhere between 300 - 900 million guns. Likewise there are increasing number of regulations over time (approximately 20,000 laws at the Federal level, plus state and city / municipal laws). Statistically violent crime in the USA has been steadily declining year over year with very few exceptions for many decades. As a whole, crime overall is down in the last quarter century (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/30/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/). But at the same time, there are isolated incidents of extreme violence as we're discussing. But still doesn't really correlate with the other stats as far as more guns = more crime.

 

Also, I haven't done deep research into health care changes over time in America, but again, what we have available now in terms of understanding and care... Can't imagine that the 1920's - 1960s had better options than now unless you're to look at the effects of big pharma, psychotropic drugs and over medicating.

 

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Edited by Guest

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I have theories about gun violence specifically young adults and in school. I'm on my phone so I'll be brief.

 

Kids used to fight get jumped and move on. Some kids were bullied continuously.

Nowadays most kids are soft. No exercise. No social interaction. Always on phones. Kids still get picked on. But it doesn't stop at school anymore. It continues on social media. Kids can't escape it. Bullied kids turn to YouTube blogs etc. with other kids. Get angrier and kind of get "radicalized". Easy access to high capacity guns. Instead of getting your homies together to confront the bullies you get your guns and fuck everyone up that wasn't on your side.

 

I also think times have changed. A lot of people are having it hard making it life. It's not like before you graduate school your dad gets you a job with a buddy of his and your start your white collar career anymore. And I think a lot of WASP male kids are seeing that and not knowing how to deal. And are taking it out on others. Look at those involuntary celibates. They can't pull chicks. So you take it out on all women and run them down on sorority row.

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@Pistol Thanks for weighing in man. Extra cool seeing an OG posting...

 

I think you're correct. Its largely the viewpoint I've expressed but yeah the idea of kids being "soft" I suppose is another way of describing the "political correctness" i've noted. Or perhaps a more apt description.

 

Likewise, I do agree that in a lot of ways, life has become more complex, despite the various tools and tech that were sold to us as ways to streamline and simplify our lives. Coupled with less resilient generations of people and what seems to be a bleaker landscape as far as opportunity, its clear how a dynamic like that can lead to some pretty bad stuff, like whats being discussed here.

 

Curious if anyone has any professional experience with psychology or social services or anything that might contribute a more specific description for some of this?

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