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Cults, Religions, Spiritualism, Psychotherapy, AA, Self Help, etc

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i watched this thing on tv sometime ago, it was about this christian sect that lives hella isolated in its own community it kinda reminds me of that movie "The Village". What do yall think about polygamy & martial law?

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we all end up in the ground .. Spirituality is a way of coping with that reality. A way of taking someone away from the pressures of life. and also leads to many more questions from a spiritual stand point.. What happens when we die? Heaven/hell/a paradise of some kind. It gives hope and comfort to the one who grieves. I also think it gives us something to do. Mankind being who he is wants to rationalize everything which leads to more and more religions, cults, even wars. Though i do ask myself sometimes. WHY RELIGION? why the desire to worship something or someone? or even the desire to be worshiped or idolized? Something that is just embedded in us as humans?

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Less Religion Means More Government

 

Robert Ryles

 

Soviet communism adopted Karl Marx’s teaching that religion was the "opiate of the masses" and launched a campaign of bloody religious persecution. Marx was misguided about the role of religion but years later many communists became aware that turning people away from religious life increases dependence on government to address life’s problems.

 

MY THOUGHTS...THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE UNITED NATIONS IS TRYING TO ESTABLISH.

 

 

The history of government coercion that comes from turning from religion to government makes a new study suggesting a national decline in religious life particularly alarming to those concerned about individual freedom.

 

The American Religious Identification Survey, published by Trinity College in Hartford, Conn., reports that we should expect one in five Americans to identify themselves as having no religious commitments by 2030. The study, titled “American Nones: The Profile of the No Religion Population,” reports that Americans professing no religion, or Nones, have become more mainstream and similar to the general public in marital status, education, racial and ethnic makeup and income. The Nones have increased from 8.1 percent of the U.S. adult population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008.

 

According to the study, 22 percent of American 18 to 29-year-olds now self-identify as Nones. For those promoting dependency on government to handle the challenges of everyday life, as well as those who wish to take advantage of a growing market for morally bankrupt products and services, the news of declining religious life is welcome.

 

The increase in non-religious identification among younger generations highlights a continued shift away from active participation in one of the key social institutions that shaped this country. It may also come as no surprise, then, that according to the research firm Greenberg Quinlan Rosner, voters under 30 are more liberal than all other generations. When asked about their ideology, 27 percent of those under 30 identify themselves as liberal, compared to 19 percent of baby boomers, and 17 percent of seniors. Pragmatic utilitarianism, favorable views toward a larger role for government in helping the disadvantaged, and a lack of ethical norms characterize this young segment America’s population.

 

The most significant difference between the religious and non-religious populations is gender. Whereas 19 percent of American men are Nones only 12 percent of American women are. The gender ratio among Nones is 60 males for every 40 females.

 

The marketplace and society in general will both reap the consequences of high numbers of male Nones. If more and more men are abandoning the religious communities that have provided solid moral formation for thousands of years, we should not be surprised by an increase in the explosion of demand for morally reprehensible products as well as the family breakdown that follows closely behind. With consciences formed by utility, pragmatism, and sensuality, instead of virtue, we should expect to find a culture with even more women subjected to the dehumanization of strip clubs, more misogynistic rap music, more adultery and divorce, more broken sexuality, more fatherlessness, more corruption in government and business, more individualism, and more loneliness.

 

Alexis de Tocqueville cautioned in his 1835 reflections on Democracy in America, that the pursuit of liberty without religion hurts society because it “tends to isolate [people] from one another, to concentrate every man's attention upon himself; and it lays open the soul to an inordinate love of material gratification.” In fact, Tocqueville says, “the main business of religions is to purify, control, and restrain that excessive and exclusive taste for well-being which men acquire in times of equality.” Religion makes us other-regarding.

 

Historically, religious communities in the United States addressed the needs of local communities in way that were clearly outside the scope of government. For example, as David G. Dalin writes in “The Jewish War on Poverty,” between the 1820s and the Civil War, Jews laid the foundation for many charitable institutions outside the synagogue including a network of orphanages, fraternal lodges, hospitals, retirement homes, settlement houses, free-loan associations, and vocational training schools. These were also normative activities for both Protestant and Catholic religious communities on even a larger scale in communities all over America before Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal.

 

The reported decline in religious life is an omen that virtue-driven local charity will decline, the passion to pursue the good will wane, and Americans will look to government to guide, protect, and provide. As we turn our lives over to government control, our capacity for independent thought and action are compromised. The real “opiate of the masses,” it would seem, is not religion but the lack of it.

....

 

 

It has brought out some great arguments in ways I have never thought of before. Not that it is wrong to not have religion just that what can potentially happen if/when religion fades away, What society will be like, will something take its place, nah mean? Religion has and will always serve a purpose no matter how kooky and weird some of them are. Kind of like cops, you might hate the fuck out of law enforcement but when serious shit hits the fan you need someone to catch the bad guy. ..Religion is like a back up prevention plan when done correctly. I think because their are a lot in high religious positions who fuck everything up which causes division in the churches and discourages people.ect.ect.ect.... A world without religion is a world that is fucked in my opinion

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That doesnt make any sense at all. I can think of tens of hundreds of examples where religion boosted the power of the government. Not only that but religion started as the first government and created the first laws and judicial system. How the fuck does less religion equal more government? Thats like saying fewer guns means more war.

 

You need to read more about religion starting with mesopotamians, the indus, etc

 

 

And religions never did anything towards peace. Merchants and trade routes have always been the ones who establish peace and tollerance amongst different races and religions. Do your homework starting with mongolia. merchants cause world peace throughout history, because they protect anyone among trade routes. Not to mention most of them throughout history were muslims. You gotta look up african kings of timbuktu, the silk road, merchants of the indian sea... But the important part isnt their religion, its that they were merchants.

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I want to know your stance on all of the above. Is it good? Is it bad? Is it overused? Underused?

 

I've got a lunatic as a roommate who wants me to go to the initiation of his cult called the "Landmark Forum." This is a guy who has been living in my apartment for about a month and really seems latched onto spiritualism to a point where I wonder what the fuck is going on. He never talks about himself except to say "I dated a model" "I did some modeling" basically whatever we're doing his respons is he's done it bigger and better than me, which is funny coming from a lanky software engineer who's about 15 years behind the social skill curb. I would have to do less babysitting if my 16 year old brother came to stay with me, and yet this is the guy who peaches so much about self help, self improvement, spiritualism etc.

 

I've made a lot of different kinds of friends over the years from different backgrounds and the one thing they all had in common was that they couldnt hide who they were. They would tell you every gritty detail of their life, never skipping a chapter, because they felt it was necessary. They needed to articulate aloud their life to make sense of it, and to make sure it made sense to other people as well. They were analytical, logical, very honest, and very generous with their time. That's my ilk.

 

This guy is not one of them. I feel like he's fell into a cult because he is so ashamed of who he is that he needs spiritualism to destroy any sense of self he still has. I think doing that only leads to more pain, alienation, disenfranchisement from society and ultimately more denial and self hatred.

 

This landmark forum thing is supposed to be for rich people who seek self help but the vibe so far (I havent gone to this thing yet) is pretty similar to when i had friends who were in AA.

 

Ive done cognitive therapy before for Social anxiety disorder (not that i ever had it) and have mixed feelings about any self help that is a lot of talk and not actually working on yourself. I think you're better off with a hammer than a self help book, mentally, physically, spiritually. But maybe someone disagrees with me. What's religion, self help books/seminars, spiritualism, etc done for you?

 

 

I'm wondering what 12oz things, since I'm guessing that we all can relate to this.

 

why do you live in san francisco if you can't afford to live without a tool for a roommate?

 

you do know housing is cheaper in other cool places, right?

 

 

 

people who can't help themselves introspectively and rely on outer sources and be all extroverted about how they're helping themselves, including reading a self help book in public and/or talking about it, are fucking hopelessly lost and you should not have them in your circle.

 

 

 

religion is there for those who require it.

 

spirituality too.

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I live here for the job opportunities around San Francisco. The city itself and the people in it could die in a giant earthquake and it wouldn't affect me.

 

Also my rent is fairly inexpensive, considering the amazing location that I live in. $650 beans and my roommate covers the rest. If you ever want to crash in Walnut Creek send me a pm.

 

And religion at this point in history is just fucking laziness. By believing in god and following religion you're basically saying, "I could learn about things that are real but why bother when there's I can just make shit up?" I truly believe that you're setting your entire family and region back into the fucking bronze age by following religion. FOLLOWING religion. I use that word specifically because I dont give a shit if you're part of a religion because people join religions for a lot of reasons... but FOLLOWING a religion is the stupid part.

 

And here's the thing, nobody NEEDS spirtuality or religion. In fact, one of the longest and most economically stable and successful countries in the WORLD has, for the most part, NEVER been religious. CHINA. Those yellow little chinks are some of the smartest, innovative and generally hospitable bunch of folks I've ever met. And yes they pay me to say that, because they're loaded and own everything.

 

In fact let me put it this way: EUROPE throughout history has been killing eachother over religion since before there was a europe. Compared to europe the rest of Eurasia's history has been pretty fucking peaceful. Its mostly been greeks, romans, christians and catholics conquering people for money, or at least trying to. Alexander the Great nation was a fail. Rome was a fail. The crusades were a fail. Hitler's deeply Catholic regime was a fail. And european christian America is a fail too.

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Depends on what your definition of fail is ...... oops did i just pull a clinton with that remark? lol :P

 

 

EDIT: I thought China was always a Buddhist nation

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By european standards Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion. There is no god commanding people to do shit, no church making laws about what is or isnt blasphemy, no taxation on the community, no church with a pastor preaching what is good or bad, no heaven or afterlife that people are trying to get into... It's not like that. And even then buddhism only makes about a third of the population. The government is ardently aetheistic, much like America was supposed to be when it was first founded. We werent supposed to have laws that prohibited gay couples from marrying. Thats a very religious law written into the government.

 

Most of China just follows what is called Confucianism. Confucius, or "Kung Fu Tze" was a philosopher who made up a lot of really good rules to live by.

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so my brother and sister in law are paying about $4k a piece to go to this

http://www.ellerslie.com/Home.html

 

and my brother quit his job (had been unemployed for almost 2 years) in order to go to this because his faith is so strong......

 

i'm really speechless and confused about how to react. it pisses me off how selective christians are about jesus' most basic messages, let alone reality.

 

 

family...

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it's all shit drink smoke fuck don't worry we all end up in thee same place..

 

Amen. Don't sweat the small stuff

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I just wanted to add to this thread that I never kicked my roommate out, that he's not an all around terrible guy, and that in actuality he's a pretty good roommate. Through him i've met a lot of other first generation Indian immigrants and I've gotta say he's the most outgoing and willing to do venture outside of the cultural indian norm. He doesnt get pissy or do annoying petty things that a lot of my previous roommates do.This could be for a few reasons. He could just not understand the dinosaur shitpiles of sarcasm I throw his way every day. He could just be from a magical place of acceptance and understanding. He could just not be a selfish whiny american. His sikh religion might've taught him to be more understanding than your average american. OR, it could be because of the landmark forum, which he claims has made him into the more outgoing, accepting and competent person he is today.

 

I'm just gonna leave it at that. And I'm not gonna judge anyone who at least checks out Landmark for themselves. ESpecially if they report back and post their experience.

 

 

 

I also just wanted to add a few things about Christianity, which really is so fucking similar to Islam it's retarded that American christians would hate the other.

 

Christianity and Islam are so similar that some Muslims actually read the bible and accept christ as the son of god. In the Quran Jesus is a prophet. They both have the same code of ethics, both proselytize in the same way, both support charity in the same way. In fact Christians and Muslims have lived together for thousands of years and this bad blood didnt start until American Texan Christian Politicians like Charlie Wilson fucked up relations.

 

I know a lot of americans believe that quran believes in supporting terrorism, but believe me Charlie Wilson did more to fund terrorism than Bin Laden.

 

If you are an american christian and you hate muslims you need to rethink some things.

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I watched that before, and what shocks me is how Vice is so fucking stupid to have missed the biggest thing: No use for currency, no capitalism, no drugs, and a god-like leader? That's fucking Stalinism, Communism, Socialism, etc. People misuse he term "atheist" all the time. If you worship a dictator, you're not a fucking atheist.

 

I want to punch Vice journalists in the face so fucking for their anti-intellectual pseudo-gonzo crap reportage.

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I personally feel that people should be allowed to partake in whatever religious and/or spiritual practices they wish as long as it's not hurting another individual or groups of individuals. In China there's a lot of oppression against a sect of Quigong that became popular at the beginning of the 90's and the Chinese government is jailing, torturing, mutilating, and even murdering people for practicing it. Jail sentences of up to 18 years and removal of internal organs for practices of peaceful meditation.

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New agers arent any different from religious fanatics...any obsession beyond self can lead to the same irratic or irrational behavior. Some of my "new age " friends and acquaintances are pushy with their beliefs and views just as much as religious nuts. Extreme in any direction is a no-muthafuckin-no.

 

I'm all for spirituality, I believe in God but ultimately, just don't be an asshat and be kind, and love others.

 

Cults are kind of cool to study though...

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the thing i respect about religion is that almost everyone who participates in it feels at home.

they have something to look forward to in life and can go to it anytime they want.

the same reason why i see some religious people more happy than non religious people.

i know religion creates narrow minded fucks but who gives a fuck if theyre clueless on whats going on if theyre happy thats all that matters.

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